Griffith the good guy

BOB

poruno sutâ
I know. People blame or (credit) him for being the one who gave birth to Nazism. I don't know that much about the man to say anything.

Sure Nietzsche was no nazi. They just twisted logic, barely understood his works and perverted the term noble man (Übermensch). At some point they even tried to prove that Jesus was an arian in some way.
 
Nietzsche explains the "rancorous man" and the "noble man". The noble man (read Griffith) is one who looks inward for happiness and acts instantly on what he feels is right. On the other hand, the rancorous man creates a "slave ethic" where his life is based on an outward force of contempt. He makes an analogy of a bird of prey (Griffith of course) and lambs and the fact that the lambs dislike the bird of prey. It is normal that the lambs don't like the bird of prey but that doesn't mean they're "evil" and certainly doesn't the mean the lambs are good just because they are the opposite.

That's called rationalization. I know next to nothing about this guy, but if this pretty much sums up his philosophy, it's not hard to see how this lead to Nazism. The Jews were the lambs, and the Nazis believed there was nothing wrong with killing them off.

Again, I disagree that he will be redeem for all his actions since he has done too much to be redeem.

I agree with that one. Griffith doesn't want redemption in the first place. He isn't sorry for what he has done, nor does he have any feelings left for Gatts.
 
That's called rationalization.  I know next to nothing about this guy, but if this pretty much sums up his philosophy, it's not hard to see how this lead to Nazism.  The Jews were the lambs, and the Nazis believed there was nothing wrong with killing them off.
That kind of thinking is exactly why people think Nazi ideals were fueled by his work. Aren't you forgetting Christians and countless other followers of religions that are considered equally as vile according to Nietzsche? He also explains that the noble man holds a great amount of respect for the existence of his enemies so I somehow doubt his writing could justify genocide. As BOB said, they distorted it to fit their propaganda.
 

nomad

"Bring the light of day"
It would not surprise me if in the end.....Griffith ends up being the good guy in the end and Gattsu Bad.....I mean I admire the sory and everything but ussually "darkness"= Bad Man, while Light and Brightness = "u good guy" witch in this case is Griffith....this is just a thought but in my opinion it makes a little bit of sense. For example everybody picks on Gattsu since little while Griffith was loved and admired by everyone who knew him (although a couple of (people who hated him).
 

ARHicks00

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
It would not surprise me if in the end.....Griffith ends up being the good guy in the end and Gattsu Bad.....I mean I admire the sory and everything but ussually "darkness"= Bad Man, while Light and Brightness = "u good guy" witch in this case is Griffith....this is just a thought but in my opinion it makes a little bit of sense. For example everybody picks on Gattsu since little while Griffith was loved and admired by everyone who knew him (although a couple of (people who hated him).


:D Whatever you are smoking, I want some of it? Where do you get the idea that Griffith has any good left in him, excluding the emotions that come his child host. From a child he's robbed(and probably murdered) people being a highwayman. He's killed in order to keep his position among the nobles' eyes. He had sex with a woman he wasn't in love with. He betrayed and killed his friends. He raped Caska and betrayed and injured Gattsu heavily, not to mention took over his son's body and you're telling it's a possiblity he's the hero?

I believe the author got some of the clothing inspirament from the movie Ladyhawke. In Ladyhawke, the heroic knight wore black after leaving his platoon of knights and being cursed by the pope who pretends to be a godly man. Michelle Pfeiffer wears a cleric robe much similar to the one Caska now wears and if you haven't notice Gatsu wears a black outfit similarly fashioned to Rutger Hauer's dark knight outfit with the helmet included. Someone mention that the author took his inspiration after doing research on Medival European style. But I believe he took his ideas from this movie.(and horror movies of course.) Beserker also has similar themes to that of Ladyhawke.
 
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Drachenfels

Guest
He is the savior of the Midlanders from the monsters and the Kushans. From this viewpoint, he is the hero, and Guts, who may kill him, the evil guy, because it's bad for the people of Midland.
 

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
Everytime the discussion is about Griffith his defenders point out that there is not evil nor good in berserk, that Griffith simply is himself, that while his victims see him how evil this is simple a subjective point of view (i.e. read the classic of philosophy instead of complain and thank Griffith for the honor that he has bestowed on you)
I have, never, seen the same persons use the same reasoning for, let us say, Donovan or Gennon.
Why?
They also simply act like their nature dictate, exactly like Grifith, and it is not their faults if what they do is not pleasant to most. They deserve to be judged by the same meter than Griffith.
The REAL difference is that Griffith is beautiful, has carisma , and is able to make appear noble everything he does, even when that he does noble is not at all.
I ask myself if Griffith would have so many defenders if his appearence was like the jailer that tortured him...    
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I dont think you had to swing below the belt like you did to make your point... But Ill go along with it.

I, personally like Griffith's character because of his desire to obtain his dream. Thats pretty much it. I'm not a large fan of the "dude looks like a lady" thing, but it doesn't get in the way of me being intrigued by him.
 

ARHicks00

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Drachenfels: Kind of hard to rule a country with the people getting slaughter don't you think. :-/

I mean who is he gone rule over if everyone is dead.

Walter: Me, myself, I like Gattsu personality because he reflects my soul in everyway.
 
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Drachenfels

Guest
Drachenfels: Kind of hard to rule a country with the people getting slaughter don't you think.  :-/

I mean who is he gone rule over if everyone is dead.

He and his apostle army are right now just killing the Kushans, not the Midlander. You don't know what he will do after he has his country.

Everytime the discussion is about Griffith his defenders point out that there is not evil nor good in berserk, that Griffith simply is himself, that while his victims see him how evil this is simple a subjective point of view (i.e. read the classic of philosophy instead of complain and thank Griffith for the honor that he has bestowed on you)
I have, never, seen the same persons use the same reasoning for, let us say, Donovan or Gennon.
Why?
They also simply act like their nature dictate, exactly like Grifith, and it is not their faults if what they do is not pleasant to most. They deserve to be judged by the same meter than Griffith.
The REAL difference is that Griffith is beautiful, has carisma , and is able to make appear noble everything he does, even when that he does noble is not at all.
I ask myself if Griffith would have so many defenders if his appearence was like the jailer that tortured him...

I can only agree.
 

nomad

"Bring the light of day"
everybody in this world would do anything to acheive their dreams...wich in this case Griffith HAS done, and not forgeting Gattsu when he left the Hawks back in the days to find his objectives....although Grifith is not strong enough to handle the truth about his loss of power, instead he sacrifices the only thing that he has left to rebuild his dream... In my opinion a lot of people would do the same thing if the case would to be in real life...

p.s. Just a thought....all of u have VERY good points
 

trapped_soul

"This is it. It's over."
everybody in this world would do anything to acheive their dreams...
interesting...
so you think everybody in this world would sacrifice his friends in order to realize his dream?
so you would do that?

(if something like a "dream" existed in their mind)
 

ARHicks00

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Drachenfels: I was refer to the Midlanders being slaughter not the Kushans. If all the Midlanders are dead who is he going to rule over. :p

Nomad: So he's a good guy because he sacrificed his dream. No he didn't sacrifice his dream, which was to rule over his country. Instead, he is using another method in achieving his goal through which he sacrificed the lives of his men. If he is willing to screw over the very people who were helping him achieve that dream then Griffith is not a good man. That goes for anybody. If you are willingly to sacrifice someone else for your goals than you are pure evil.
 
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Drachenfels

Guest
This is simply wrong. Not everybody would kill all his friends to achieve his goals.

Drachenfels: I was refer to the Midlanders being slaughter not the Kushans. If all the Midlanders are dead who is he going to rule over. :p

Who should kill the Midlanders?
 
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Drachenfels

Guest
I think he wanted to say that some people would not only NOT sacrificing their friends, but would also not do things that are not as terrible, for example, simply betraying their friends, stealing a lollipop from a child etc.
 

maximus

Es ist einsam im Nebel zu wandern...
I think he wanted to say that some people would not only NOT sacrificing their friends, but would also not do things that are not as terrible, for example, simply betraying their friends, stealing a lollipop from a child etc.
u nearly got it!
but actually i wanted to add that a huge number of people don t do shit for reaching their dream.
They just live because they were born....
They just accept their situation and don t do nothing to change anything.
These people are asleep...
yet they have no real dream....
they live within and dependent on the social system they were born into...
these people are everywhere....
these people live but they are not alive!

In short i just wanted to add that there are people who don t do anything about their dreams or don t even have one.
the extreme opposite of Griffith who even sacrificed
his "family"....to turn his dream into real.

Between those two extremes there are for sure some other types of dreamers...
for example those who cheat or those who give up...
Well in ur world there is everything possible but i sometimes ask myself,...for what am i doing all this??
does a dream or a target u try to reach make ur life mor sensefull than others??
at the end we all gonna face death and before him we all look the same no matter what we did....!?OR NOT!?
What do u guys think?u got an opinion bout that?
 

Lliugusamui

around the corner
I pretty agree with you
I also think that the worst way to find oneself dream is to seek it, it must appear clearly or come progressively, without precalculation ...
 
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Drachenfels

Guest
u nearly got it!
but actually i wanted to add that a huge number of people don t do shit for reaching their dream.
They just live because they were born....
They just accept their situation and don t do nothing to change anything.
These people are asleep...
yet they have no real dream....
they live within and dependent on the social system they were born into...
these people are everywhere....
these people live but they are not alive!

In short i just wanted to add that there are people who don t do anything about their dreams or don t even have one.
the extreme opposite of Griffith who even sacrificed
his "family"....to turn his dream into real.

Between those two extremes there are for sure some other types of dreamers...
for example those who cheat or those who give up...
Well in ur world there is everything possible but i sometimes ask myself,...for what am i doing all this??
does a dream or a target u try to reach make ur life mor sensefull than others??
at the end we all gonna face death and before him we all look the same no matter what we did....!?OR NOT!?
What do u guys think?u got an opinion bout that?

Yeah... whatever...
 

nomad

"Bring the light of day"
ok guys..... aparently my comment was taken the wrong way. First of all NO I would not betray every one I love to achieve my dreams, what I meant was simply the fact that there r people (not all) who would do ANYTHING to achieve their dreams, most of them are either phsycos or massmurderers, like in this case Griffith, BUT he had a reason, selfeshly he rather destroy everybody for the search of his dream world, remember those were medieval times, their ways of life, literature and culture are all about betrayal and survival of the fittest. U guys know a lot more than I do in the whole Beserk saga, and honestly I hate Griffith, but nobody really knows why he did it..... at least that I know of
 

ARHicks00

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
ok guys..... aparently my comment was taken the wrong way. First of all NO I would not betray every one I love to achieve my dreams, what I meant was simply the fact that there r people (not all) who would do ANYTHING to achieve their dreams, most of them are either phsycos or massmurderers,

That's not true, many normal everyday people will do anything to achieve their dreams too.

like in this case Griffith, BUT he had a reason, selfeshly he rather destroy everybody for the search of his dream world, remember those were medieval times, their ways of life, literature and culture are all about betrayal and survival of the fittest.

First off, Griffith decision was not different from any massmurder or pyschopath. Matter a fact his decision seems similar to that of Genshu Khan, Doug Zhou or any other wanna-be zealot monarch who try to rule over.

U guys know a lot more than I do in the whole Beserk saga, and honestly I hate Griffith, but nobody really knows why he did it..... at least that I know of

Or you don't know why and figure everyone else doesn't know. It's not that complex, Griffith wants to be in control and is willing to do anything to remain in that position.
 
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