Casca's life, and the two men in it.

Puella's comment in the episode 193 thread got me thinking... and since my ponderings usually grow pnderous I moved them here as a prememptive strike. There are too few Casca discussions out there anyway...

I just want Caska to begin a new life without two guys.
Why should her life always be controlled by men?
first Griffith and second Guts as you know.
In other words, can't she have her own life, huh?
Why should Guts give her salvation? Could she get her own life back for herself?
I'd not say Caska should have equal power like Guts but she can
use other ways as every woman have but men doesn't.
this is why I don't think highly of Caska while many people think Caska best female character.
She's best for only men that's what I think. A life as a woman fucked up.
and also I think this is just because berserk is manga for men.
I mean Caska is nothing more than "best female" is created by a man.
Furthermore, I can't like other female characters except Luca in berserk. Rather they always make me annoyed.
don't blame me.
this is just my personal point of view.

***I want to make it clear that I'm not god damn feminist and love guys very much..

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I think the real problem with Casca is that she is not controlled, rather that she have never had any dreams or aspirations wholly her own. When she was a younger daughter she did not have many dreams, because as she said, life back then was pretty much about surviving. When her father sold her she was even understanding, because she might have done the same thing in his place. It was when she met Griffith that she came to realise that there was other things in life. I don't know if she fell in love, she might have done that, but there was something a lot more involved. Griffith became her personal god and saviour, probably the first thing in her life that she had even considered worthy of worshipping. Think religious awakening combined with first love.

That is quite interesting really, because if Griffith had been any other sort of man she might just have ended up in his bed, a beautiful concubine and not much more. But since Griffith just valued things that could help him achieve his own dreams, she became that instead. Her whole career as a fighter came not from her own will, but rather that of Griffith. Not that she minded once she got started, it must have been wonderful to finally have control over her life, to be able to get guys like Corkus to just fuck of. Can we say powertrip anyone?

But what I am trying to say is that she had no dreams of her own, if not becoming the sword of Griffith (and his lover as well) counted. No dreams apart from Griffith would be a better expression come to think of it. And then she met Gatts. Who stole her position as Griff's right hand man, and stole the place in Griffith's heart she had wanted. Not that she had ever had it.... but still. Jelaousy. Funny really that she was the only one who saw what went on between Gatts and Griffith, with the possible exception of Judeau...

So what made her fall in love with Gatts? Well, he was worthy for once, he did hot hit on her, he quite obviously made it clear that he saw her as just another soldier and apprechiated ehr skills. Just like Griffith. And... I guess she trusted him. He had always come through for her, and there was something truly cute in the way he could just not handle emotions. Whith Griffith and Gatts both gone I guess she started thinking. Griffith was her first love, her truest loyalty, but Gatts... well, once he came back and showed her that not everything was hopeless, that he could stand all her anger, her hate... then I guess she dared to love him. That goes for both of them. It is frightening to love someone if you are emotionally scarred, but the two of them had dared to do pretty much else, hadn't they?

Love... In a way I wish it could have ended that way, but there is always Griffith is it not? Even in the end she could not leave him, not even for Gatts. Loyalty and love of course, but also because to strike out on her own, with no other commitments than herself and her love must seem a pretty scary thing. She had never, ever lived for herself before.

So where do that leave her now? When she becomes sane that is?

Part II

She had never had any dreams of her own before, she had never struck out on her own, but now... even the insane Casca show a willingness to independence that the old one never did. She's a child... but children grow, and perhaps this is a neccesary step for her. I am not suprised that she went mad, after all, watching her friends die, being raped by demons is cause for madness. But not just that... she had her dreams betrayed and destroyed. Griffith was no more, and Gatts had offered her no dreams, nothing but his love. So what should she do, she was all alone, everything was up to her. Griffith/femto and Gatts locked in a spiral of love/hate that excluded everything else, even her. All alone. No wonder she went nuts. What would happen if Gatts had stayed with Godo and her? I think she might have healed a lot quicker, but now there was just another betrayal, cementing the one fact that she knew. She had no one.

Then Gatts came back. She was not scared of him as a man anymore, even rape traumas fade if nothing happens that arouses them again, and he protected her, was just at safe as she remebered. The Griffith returned, looking just the way she remebered him, but also acted just as cold and unfeeling. He saved her... but... he was more distant and beyond her than ever. So that left just Gatts. Which was fine until things started to turn foul, when hestarted cracking under the strain of caring for a three year old. Until he started giving in to his inner beast, until he got possessed and tried to kill her. Make no mistake, she might have the mind of a very young child, but even children know when something is wrong. Gatts was her enemy. He tried to kill her, held her captive, and then... after the rape by those mercenaries he tried to do the same thing to her...

A double betrayal. Rape by Griffith/Femto. Rape by Gatts. Sure, he did not go through with it, but with the current state of her mind it was just as bad. It is the intention that counts after all. So now she has no one to trust. She has begun to fight again, and I hope that this is a sign that her self imposed exile is ending. But what will she fight for, I don't think she will go 'sane' again until she have found some meaning she have never had before in her life. Until she has found her own way, or at least taken the first step. She has to stop being a child.

I think that it is quite likely that Gatts quest for a cure is hopeless. There is no miracle potion that she can drink and suddenly become sane again. Too easy, and not very Berserk. I think what is important is the road they travel, the events that happens to her, the way they force herself to once again begin caring about her own safety. Slowly, little by little I think she will claw her own way back to sanity. Because... I don't think anyone can do it for her. Gatts is cracking, Griffith is distant, and none of them have enough grasp on themselves to help her. She has to do it on her own.

Which brings me to Farneese. How will it affect Casca to have a female companion? Not a child but a fighter, albeit as screwed up as the rest of the cast. Had she been sane she would have slapped Farnese quickly into line, and she might even have seen her in sort of a kid sister fashion. Now? I hope that her prescence will bring her out of her shell eventually.

And if she suddenly remembers it all? I dunno... I think she will be just as pissed with Gatts as with Griffith. Most likely she will refuse any involvement with them both. Or... I dunno. Too early to say.

Hehe, long, long, long. I just wanted to say that I find Casca one of the most intriguing characters in the book, and just as with Farneese it is interesting to see Miura craft female characters that can be just as selfish, deluded and strong as the main male characters. I can't wait to see how he resolves this.

Some of you might notice I have made no mention of the foetus.That is because I am still not sure what Casca's feelings about it are.

Caska has been jerked around alot by men. If there's ever an arguement for somebody to become a lesbian.......

It's always kind of hard to follow up a post like that.

Caska has been jerked around alot by men.

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Yeah, definitely. Maybe one of her roles is to be nearly raped every five(?) chapters. sound harsh, too?

damn Fish, I have nothing to say. you've done everything.
and I'm not the one who deserve to discuss Caska because I've never thought about her very much though my chromosome type is XX.
My interest is about Guts' fight, Griffith's dream, apostles, GodHand and Serpico. :-[
but Fish,you seem to be very fond of Caska and have much thought about her.
Here is my poor opinion for Caska in spite of lacking some interest and knowledge.
Many people take her strong female fighter. definiely right.
but there is one more important thing. Caska is more feminine girl than any other girl in berserk .
It's not followed that she can be described only a type of worrior just because she is a captain(?) of the Hawks or something.
It's her outside figure. we should not miss her inside,inner-self as a lovely woman.
it is also Miura's good work because berserk has two god damn ultimately strong men,so main female character doesn't necessarily need to be equal to them in terms of strength.
Her role is brilliantly performed as a true girl in berserk.
Thus two men and a woman are in harmonized.
So current state of Caska is important, too just like what she used to be. It is becuase her current represents her inner-mind more than any other time though we lost a figure of amazon and she looks like only a child--maybe this is also a part of her.

She had a dream to be Griffith's sword and then her second dream might be Guts' sword unless there was the eclipse.
Now she loses her dream and soul.
What I want to say on the other thread(episdoe 193) is not she should live as a single woman without man. ^^
I mean she should find out her own sword, not somebody's.
devoting to somebody is good thing for sure but all her life should not be controlled by them. that's all.
and "love" is Caska's role in the manga but she lost it, too.
So when she regains, she must find out her own life as well as love.

and I think this thread need guys' opinions more than girls'. ;)

I've never thought about her very much though my chromosome type is XX.

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Hehe, so's mine... but she's still damn cute. *sighs*

You're right about the two guys/one girl part... I think that what many people miss is the fact that while the main conflict is between Gatts and Griffith, she has a very important part to play. She is the sole survivor of the eclipse besides Gatts. She loves/has loved them both. They both care very deeply for her. She is a marked sacrifice, just like Gatts. She is the mother of Griffith's current body. She might very well be the cause of Gatts downfall.

This ain't no dual relationship between two guys, it is a very interesting emotional triangle, and Casca's part is no less important just because she can't take up a sword and kill an apostle. Yet. Can't wait to see that happen.

and I think this thread need guys' opinions more than girls' [/quote[

That ain't gonna happen. Most people are just interested in war, conquest, intrigues and how many apostles gatts can chop and how. The girls gets ignored from both the girls (they ain't hot), and the guys (they don't chop things up.) So sad. Unless of course they are nice and strong women that they could imagine being their girlfriends/friends, like Luca and Jill. The poor tortured souls like Casca and Farneze are not very interesting. They can't fight very good, and who the hell would want to date them? Ergo, they're not important enough to ponder. Bad girls should be sexy and look like Slann, otherwise they're just not interesting...'

...

A provocation? Damn right it is! *grins*

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The poor tortured souls like Casca and Farneze are not very interesting.

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You're kidding right?  Caska and Faneze are the two most important (and speculated about) females in the series.

At this point I would say that Farneze's role is undefined.  There's simply not as much information about her as there is about Gatts or Griffith. (although admittedly I don't know as much about her as I should)  There is plenty of room for speculation but not in depth analysis.

Caska's role in the series is completely different.  The entire storyline revolves around here, but at this point (because of here mental state) she is still little more than a human pet.  I think she will eventually recover, but the dynamic between characters changes so much that it is difficult to speculate what role she will play in the future.

As far as the lesbian angle, I wasn't just trying to be an ass (I'm an ass anyway). I just wanted to throw something out there and see if it sticks. :) I mean look, every problem she's ever has have been caused by men. I wouldn't be suprised.....

You're kidding right?  Caska and Faneze are the two most important (and speculated about) females in the series.

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*grins* Of course... but more provoking than kidding. *smiles* Yeah, we do not know much about Farneze, to be honest I didn't think she was going to stick around. But... from the look of things she might have a lot to do in the future. I can't wait until I get a translation of the latest issues, when she wants to follow Gatts. Wonder what she said there...

Lesbian? *grins* Why would I think you was an ass over that? *weg*. But really... trauma will most likely put Casca off sex alltogether, because it doesn't change her mind. If you like women because you hate men, then something else is very wrong. You like women because they are soft, cuddly, curvy and... *ahem* I better shut up now...

I wonder if Casca and Gatts will ever get together again. I mean, they both have pretty major hangups when it comes to sex... it'll be a wonder if they manage to go through with it without strangling or disemboweling each other. It was tough before Casca's rape... now? Sheeesh... I feel sorry for them.

hmm~ Farneese
Strangely If I have to choose of the two, Caska and Farneese,
I'd pick Farneese(for Wine? ^^)
Because of the point Farneese has many weak points. She's fragile and did a lot of bad things. She's not strong and selfish...
but why I feel sorry for her more than Caska?
to be honest, I myself don't know why but maybe she is much like me than Caska. this is very very personal take.
I'm definitely far from a type of Caska.

However, this may sound like bitching, why girls in berserk should have a dream for men?
while the two guys have a dream for themselves not for women.

bytheway) my beloved character puck has his own dream? ;D
Sometimes I come to have a picture in mind that....
One day Puck leaves Guts without a word.
After a couple of years later, a certain young man visits Guts.
His all action reminds Guts of Puck!!
Puck turns into a man, not an elf!

anyway, O.K I'll shut up again. :-X :-X

Part II

She had never had any dreams of her own before, she had never struck out on her own, but now... even the insane Casca show a willingness to independence that the old one never did. She's a child... but children grow, and perhaps this is a neccesary step for her. I am not suprised that she went mad, after all, watching her friends die, being raped by demons is cause for madness. But not just that... she had her dreams betrayed and destroyed. Griffith was no more, and Gatts had offered her no dreams, nothing but his love. So what should she do, she was all alone, everything was up to her. Griffith/femto and Gatts locked in a spiral of love/hate that excluded everything else, even her. All alone. No wonder she went nuts. What would happen if Gatts had stayed with Godo and her? I think she might have healed a lot quicker, but now there was just another betrayal, cementing the one fact that she knew. She had no one.

Then Gatts came back. She was not scared of him as a man anymore, even rape traumas fade if nothing happens that arouses them again, and he protected her, was just at safe as she remebered. The Griffith returned, looking just the way she remebered him, but also acted just as cold and unfeeling. He saved her... but... he was more distant and beyond her than ever. So that left just Gatts. Which was fine until things started to turn foul, when hestarted cracking under the strain of caring for a three year old. Until he started giving in to his inner beast, until he got possessed and tried to kill her. Make no mistake, she might have the mind of a very young child, but even children know when something is wrong. Gatts was her enemy. He tried to kill her, held her captive, and then... after the rape by those mercenaries he tried to do the same thing to her...

A double betrayal. Rape by Griffith/Femto. Rape by Gatts. Sure, he did not go through with it, but with the current state of her mind it was just as bad. It is the intention that counts after all. So now she has no one to trust. She has begun to fight again, and I hope that this is a sign that her self imposed exile is ending. But what will she fight for, I don't think she will go 'sane' again until she have found some meaning she have never had before in her life. Until she has found her own way, or at least taken the first step. She has to stop being a child.

I think that it is quite likely that Gatts quest for a cure is hopeless. There is no miracle potion that she can drink and suddenly become sane again. Too easy, and not very Berserk. I think what is important is the road they travel, the events that happens to her, the way they force herself to once again begin caring about her own safety. Slowly, little by little I think she will claw her own way back to sanity. Because... I don't think anyone can do it for her. Gatts is cracking, Griffith is distant, and none of them have enough grasp on themselves to help her. She has to do it on her own.

And if she suddenly remembers it all? I dunno... I think she will be just as pissed with Gatts as with Griffith. Most likely she will refuse any involvement with them both. Or... I dunno. Too early to say.

Hehe, long, long, long. I just wanted to say that I find Casca one of the most intriguing characters in the book, and just as with Farneese it is interesting to see Miura craft female characters that can be just as selfish, deluded and strong as the main male characters. I can't wait to see how he resolves this.

Some of you might notice I have made no mention of the foetus.That is because I am still not sure what Casca's feelings about it are.

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Pretty much like I stated before. How can rape be cured? How can betrayal be cured? I can't. The Berserk world is not a kind place. Especially to women. From what I figure regarding Casca's mindset before the Festival was that, I think she still loved Griffith more than Guts. As much as she loved Guts she still had this strong pull towards Griffith. Which is totally understandable. You can't love someone for Years and years then just let go your feelings completely of that person. That's the weird thing about berserk. I always got the impression that Guts was more of a "consilation prize" than the actual person she wants to be with. Griffith was always the center of her world. She revolved around him. Even tho' she knew he could never love her the way she loves him. That's (for me) an interesting coil in the series. I'm sure it will be touched upon again. I think it has to as somewhere down the line when she regains her senses she will see a handsome Griffith right in front of her. That's scenario I look forward to as much as any other.

Hey Fishbomb, I'm a guy and I care a lot about Caska! She's my favorite character in the series. A big reason why I haven't gotten the manga is because I don't want to see Caska the way she is now and getting almost raped every five pages, like Puella said.

At any rate, I would have to disagree with Kenoh-sama about Caska loving Griffith first. While he does hold a huge place in Caska's heart, being the first one and so on, remember that after Griffith is defeated by Guts, she is looking after Guts, not towards Griffith, unlike all the other Hawks. She agrees to come away with him once they rescue Griffith. Guts is first in her heart at the time of the Eclipse. After, though ... who knows. If she ever does remember the Eclipse, that will take care of her love for Griffith forever.

I also have to disagree that both Guts and Griffith are only pursuing selfish dreams. Well, Griffith is. But Guts realizes at the end, before the Eclipse, that his "dream" is the people around, the Band of the Hawk and Caska especially. She's his love and he is ready to dedicate himself to her and to his men. His dream is not one of selfish conquest, but of finally sharing his life with others. Unfortunately Griffith has to do what he does and now Guts is living a nightmare of torment and violent revenge; his dream was snatched away from him and destroyed in front of his eyes. He didn't realize, of course, that Caska was still there; hopefully he will snap out of his increasing disintegration and realize that he can still have what he wanted. I do believe that if Caska ever regains her memory, she will accept him. Yeah, they're both terribly damaged, but if they ever come to a land of peace they can both heal. I hope that's what happens, though I'm not too optimistic given everything that's gone on.

Hey Fishbomb, I'm a guy and I care a lot about Caska! She's my favorite character in the series. A big reason why I haven't gotten the manga is because I don't want to see Caska the way she is now and getting almost raped every five pages, like Puella said.

At any rate, I would have to disagree with Kenoh-sama about Caska loving Griffith first. While he does hold a huge place in Caska's heart, being the first one and so on, remember that after Griffith is defeated by Guts, she is looking after Guts, not towards Griffith, unlike all the other Hawks. She agrees to come away with him once they rescue Griffith. Guts is first in her heart at the time of the Eclipse. After, though ... who knows. If she ever does remember the Eclipse, that will take care of her love for Griffith forever.

I also have to disagree that both Guts and Griffith are only pursuing selfish dreams. Well, Griffith is. But Guts realizes at the end, before the Eclipse, that his "dream" is the people around, the Band of the Hawk and Caska especially. She's his love and he is ready to dedicate himself to her and to his men. His dream is not one of selfish conquest, but of finally sharing his life with others. Unfortunately Griffith has to do what he does and now Guts is living a nightmare of torment and violent revenge; his dream was snatched away from him and destroyed in front of his eyes. He didn't realize, of course, that Caska was still there; hopefully he will snap out of his increasing disintegration and realize that he can still have what he wanted. I do believe that if Caska ever regains her memory, she will accept him. Yeah, they're both terribly damaged, but if they ever come to a land of peace they can both heal. I hope that's what happens, though I'm not too optimistic given everything that's gone on.

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It's just my pessimistic view on it. I know she loves Guts. I'm sure all of us know that. It's just that Griffith has such a strong presence. She did want to stay and take of Griffith after he was rescued. So her feelings for him were still strong. I'm sure Guts is numero uno in her book. Atleast I hope so. I really, really, really want a happy ending for both characters. I'm not a tragedy lover.

. I know she loves Guts. I'm sure all of us know that. It's just that Griffith has such a strong presence.
So her feelings for him were still strong. I'm sure Guts is numero uno in her book.

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i think what she did for griffith was at least her feeling that she owed him,because he was the reason why she had this life.

I guess she thought she was in love with him but she woke up,so realized and discovered her true feelings:love for guts, loyality for Griffith.

I hate when.....

1) a pretty woman with big boob and butt is crying for help. then
a macho man (like Sylversta Stallion) appears and save her.
and they hug and kiss.

2) a pretty woman with long blonde hair and tight suits or mini skirt
was hanging on the cliff and that macho man...blahblahblah
we can enjoy completely her body shape and there is always a wind to blow her skirt!!

3) a pretty woman looks like a professional killer is fighting with some guys.
she usually wears a mini skirt and high-heeled then. why should such a professional female killer wear like that even when she fight? does it make sense?

4)when FBI raids into somebody' house, they, a woman and a guy are usually having sex.


and! do you think 4 items above don't belong to Caska at all? ::)
When it's necessary that Caska's brand is shown, her clothes should be always taken off. -__-;;

.........
but I like her nudity.
and  I've been thinking over tanning my skin just like Caska this summer.I'm too pale.

Caska is just as strong as Guts or Griffith, she’s also the most emotionally perceptive character hands down; she understands Guts and Griffith better then they do themselves. She’s never wanted or needed any pie in the sky dream to justify her existence, she only wanted to find a place in the world where she belonged and she could be happy.  She isn’t weaker than the men in her life, only different, more facilitative, she’ll put the needs of others (the ones she loves) ahead of her own (Serpico is much the same, so it isn't about gender). This doesn’t make her weak, it takes a strong person to support the people around them even when they seem hopeless (Guts is learning that now). Griffith is so emotionally fragile that he can’t even get near a feeling without self-destructing. Then there is Guts, he is the most complex and troubled, he’s impossible to define because he changes all the time. Sometimes he’s a very selfless person, other times a completely selfish bastard, and he can be both at once.  He is very confused and completely unstable, like he said himself, he doesn’t figure out what he wants until it’s too late.  Caska knew what she wanted unlike Guts, and she could deal with and express her feelings unlike Griffith, and unlike both of them she could understand her emotions and the even emotions of others. That is how she is strong and how Guts and Griffith are weak, without her...

-Griffith

P.S. Big rant post coming later about Guts, Griffith and Caska, look forward to it.  ;)

Griffith is so emotionally fragile that he can’t even get near a feeling without self-destructing.

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Hehe, ain't that too true. Too bad Casca can understand people's feelings, yet find it so hard to accept her own, about her own life. Still... that is what makes a great character. She's the least selfish of the three, or... in a way she might be just a s selfish because after all she is using them to fill her life. It is hard to tell because we simply do not know her well enough yet. I'm looking forward to it.

P.S. Big rant post coming later about Guts, Griffith and Caska, look forward to it.

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Ooooo... *weg* looking forward to that!

I hate when.....

1) a pretty woman with big boob and butt is crying for help. then
a macho man (like Sylversta Stallion) appears and save her.
and they hug and kiss.

2) a pretty woman with long blonde hair and tight suits or mini skirt
was hanging on the cliff and that macho man...blahblahblah
we can enjoy completely her body shape and there is always a wind to blow her skirt!!

3) a pretty woman looks like a professional killer is fighting with some guys.
she usually wears a mini skirt and high-heeled then. why should such a professional female killer wear like that even when she fight? does it make sense?

4)when FBI raids into somebody' house, they, a woman and a guy are usually having sex.


and! do you think 4 items above don't belong to Caska at all? ::)
When it's necessary that Caska's brand is shown, her clothes should be always taken off. -__-;;

.........
but I like her nudity.
and  I've been thinking over tanning my skin just like Caska this summer.I'm too pale.

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Puella. My dear Puella. You would love Basara. It's pretty much a shojo version of Berserk. The main character is a strong woman. And no it's not a "I AM WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR" kind of thing. I highly-HIGHLY recomend this series.

About tanning. The Best look is always the natural one :)

This may be ridiculous but another mixture thrown into the bag could be Farneese falling in love with Gatts maybe Gatts could fall in love with Farneese you know the Caska female warrior equation. This could do something to Caska maybe emotions come back jealousy is a very strong weapon releasing her from her childlike prison anyway just a thought.

This may be ridiculous but another mixture thrown into the bag could be Farneese falling in love with Gatts maybe Gatts could fall in love with Farneese you know the Caska female warrior equation. This could do something to Caska maybe emotions come back jealousy is a very strong weapon releasing her from her childlike prison anyway just a thought.

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Anything is possible in Berserk. At the least I see Farneese having something big for Guts but I don't think Guts would bend that way.

I don’t think it’s a ridiculous idea at all, I made a similar suggestion a few months back (Farnese seeing Guts how Caska saw Griffith) and got slapped around for it, glad to see I’m not alone, though.  Except that I don’t believe Guts would fall for Farnese.  I think he would definitely reject her, and then we’d see how Farnese would deal with it, for instance, would she see Caska as the problem?  And if so, would she try to ‘fix’ that problem?  After all, Caska doesn’t even appreciate what Guts is doing for her, she doesn’t deserve him, he’d be much happier without her, right?  At least that's how Farnese could see it, she has been possessed by demons before, I wonder if the beast can influence her as well as Guts… but I’m rambling, now.

-Griffith

Puella. My dear Puella. You would love Basara. It's pretty much a shojo version of Berserk. The main character is a strong woman. And no it's not a "I AM WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR" kind of thing. I highly-HIGHLY recomend this series.

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thank you for your recommendation. :-* I also want to see different kind of girl in the manga. I'm gonna read Basara soon.

This may be ridiculous but another mixture thrown into the bag could be Farneese falling in love with Gatts maybe Gatts could fall in love with Farneese you know the Caska female warrior equation.

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that's what I hope. I want to see that main character falls in love with other people. I think this is more realistic.
Main heroes in every manga always love just one.It makes me very bored. It is 21st century! why their love can't get out of 18th century?

I want to see that main character falls in love with other people. I think this is more realistic. Main heroes in every manga always love just one.It makes me very bored.

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Not me, I think it’s more interesting because we actually see Guts struggle with his love for Caska (unlike a lot of the other main characters out there where, “love conquers all!”), that’s the realism of it, it’s hard loving someone and it hurts.  But he loves Caska for who she was (and maybe still is), not just because she was a woman and was there.  He loves Caska because she was a strong person, a compassionate woman, but also a woman that could take care of herself against any man. Look at the kiss scene in 189, I think Guts was reacting more to Caska’s actions than to her stimulating appearance; I think that was certainly part of it, but it’s not what triggered his response.  Does anybody think he would have kissed her like that had he killed the men instead?  She was exhibiting behavior like her old self, she looked like a warrior again and not just a helpless vegetable (even if she is a tomato, har har har =).  I think what really did it was that she went as far as to attack him with the sword, she knew what she was doing and she was fearless, and she was totally in control.  It almost parallels the way she attacked him by the waterfall in volume 9, and you know what happened after that.  All this together was just too much for him (he was thinking about how she used to be in 187, and the beast mocked him saying she isn’t like that anymore). Basically, I think he was more turned on by seeing her hold that bloody sword at him with confidence than by seeing her naked body.

I'll stop rambling and say I just don’t think Farnese can really compete with Caska, in a fight or in temperament, at least not while Guts still has any hope for Caska's recovery.

It is 21st century! why their love can't get out of 18th century?

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Because Berserk is an old fashioned, carefree, conservative yarn! It reminds old folks of better days when literature was more tasteful, I know my Grandma loves it! =)

In all seriousness though, I think Berserk has dealt with all kinds of strange love and obsession, and the difference between the two, I also think it’s going to get even more complex in the future with Serpico and Farnese thrown into the mix with Guts and Caska, and eventually Griffith too. All their relationships parallel each other in different and interesting ways, so you can only fully understand one by your familiarity with the others.

-Griffith

P.S. Funny idea, maybe after Caska recovers she will totally forgive Griffith and ask Guts to do the same, driving him into the waiting arms of Farnese! Yeah, not that funny.

Griffith, I think there are only 0.6923% people who hope Farneese can be Guts' new lover. Maybe I'm the only one.

because Farneese is

1) not prettier than Caska(to their eyes)
2) not sexier tnatn Caska
3) not stronger than Caska
4) appears later than Caska
5) has sadism
6) arrogant and bitter a little bit
7) not go through the eclipse.

Above all, Guts and Farneese' love is not more interesting than Guts and Caska's.
and if Guts falls in love with Farneese completely, we might think Guts betrays his old lover of a member of the Hawk---- that's what people don't want to see. Furthurmore people feel sorry for Caska very much.

and so on.
I do understand and know THAT possibility is not easy.
but this is the very reason makes me hope for another love!
because Miura always gives us unexpected story.
and this is very important part of my thought, I want to see Guts betrays and leaves Caska entirely and mercilessly just as Griffith did.
You know what I mean? In that situation, Guts would realize he is very similar to Griffith, I think. He is as selfish as Griffith.
Isn't it interesting?


and.......



and........


I'm fed up with Caska's nudity..... I want other girl's. that's all. ;D

I don’t think it’s a ridiculous idea at all, I made a similar suggestion a few months back (Farnese seeing Guts how Caska saw Griffith) and got slapped around for it, glad to see I’m not alone, though.  

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That never seemed unreasonable to me.  I just didn't say anything because........um..........well I like covering my ass.

Not me, I think it’s more interesting because we actually see Guts struggle with his love for Caska (unlike a lot of the other main characters out there where, “love conquers all!”), that’s the realism of it, it’s hard loving someone and it hurts.  But he loves Caska for who she was (and maybe still is), not just because she was a woman and was there.  He loves Caska because she was a strong person, a compassionate woman, but also a woman that could take care of herself against any man.

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Interesting point.  Here are a couple of hypotheticals..........

1)  Would Gatts still take care of Caska if he thought that there were no chance for her recovery.

2)  Would Caska do the same for Gatts if the situation were reversed.

In aswer to my own inquiry:

I think that Gatts would still take care of her.  Reguardless of all of the "Oh he's so damn selfish" Gatts-bashing I've been hearing alot on this messageboard, I still think that Gatts is (for the most part) a noble character.  In spite of vowing to never swing his sword for anybody else, he has never really followed up on that.  He has never had any big goals or dreams of his own.  And when he does go off on his own, it only leads to feelings of emptyness and misery.  He seems to be most content when he is fighting for somebody that he cares about.  At times he's like a bull in a china store, but his heart is in the right place.

O.K. in anwer to my second inquiry. I guess it partially depends on how far you take the reversal. For example, is Gatts raped by Griffith instead of Caska. (After seeing the second episode of the anime that's something I honestly thought would happen) Perhaps instead of Gatts losing his arm, Caska looses the child, and some other woman concieves Griffith. I'm completely rambling here, so in answer to the question ....I don't know....It's a damn good question. *Steve pats himself on the back*.........I'm sorry.

that situation, Guts would realize he is very similar to Griffith, I think. He is as selfish as Griffith.
Isn't it interesting?

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*ponders* Wasn't that the point of the last episodes? We build Griffith up as a herp fighting the cruel Kuskans... and bring down Gatts to Griffith's depths.

I think we are going to see Gatts thinking he's no better than Griffith...

What if the situations had been reversed? Well, Casca would have taken care of Gatts... why? Because loyalty has always been her biggest asset. Loyalty to Griffith. Loyalty to the hawks. That's one stubborn lady with intergrity here.

*sudden realisation* OH dear, I never thought of that. She will probably be able to forgive Griffith her rape... but will she forgive the deaths of the Hawks? I think not. Unless he can talk her into seeing his side...

Interesting possibility, but i think that Farnese will be the founder of " The Sons of Guts" a religious brotherhood devoted at cleansing the word by fire, as taught by the only true prophet (Guts).And Caska is perfect as she is: while in her current condition she is a touched by the gods (er, perarphs they were not exactly gods but Farnese cannot know about that). Absolutly perfect. So you do create a holy person.ps escuse me for my poor english. ;)