Casca's life, and the two men in it.

puella

Berserk forever
take a guess what scene I hate most!
yeah, absolutely about Caska again.
in vol.9 when she tried to jump off the fall in front of Guts' eyes.
Wawawawa~ What a lovely, loyal and pretty Girl! you think like that?
me? what a foolish, stupid and ridiculous girl!
the reasons are

1) she knows that she comes to love Guts but not even confessing it, choose to die? O.k I understand this but

2) If she really decided to kill herself, why she changed her mind so quickly? maybe it took just ten seconds! What a woman!

3) and you know, those who really want to commit sucide, never act like that. I mean they choose to die all alone, without anybody.
thus her action was just like "Guts, I'm so sad. please console me, please stop me, please be my man"

4)In conclusion, I think her action was not well-grounded though I tried very hard to understand her stupid action as a way of impulse.
That scene was short of detail which is Miura's good forte, I think.
and I dare to say that views between men and women are totally different. so I know most of guys would think "is Puella nuts?"
"why should puella criticize our pretty, lovely and perfect girl?"
"maybe Puella is jealous?"...... but they are all natural.
and I also know the most important thing that if Caska had other personality, the story couldn't be developed easily. -_-;;

*** In my previous post I said she need not be as strong as two guys--- "strong" means physical strength or force in my former writing.
I know she is a strong woman. but what makes me bitch at her is why such a strong girl should fall into that stupid whining thing just like a child with Griffith or Guts? ho~ is this a nature of love?
as Caska shows her weak points to Guts so many times?
bawahaaaaaa~

and I do hope I get to like "girls in berserk" if we can meet another female main characters except Caska.
yeah, in a word, anyway Caska sucks to me. :p
 

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
take a guess what scene I hate most!
yeah, absolutely about Caska again.
in vol.9 when she tried to jump off the fall in front of Guts' eyes.
Wawawawa~ What a lovely, loyal and pretty Girl! you think like that?
me? what a foolish, stupid and ridiculous girl!
the reasons are

1) she knows that she comes to love Guts but not even confessing it, choose to die? O.k I understand this but

2) If she really decided to kill herself, why she changed her mind so quickly? maybe it took just ten seconds! What a woman!

3) and you know, those who really want to commit sucide, never act like that. I mean they choose to die all alone, without anybody.
thus her action was just like "Guts, I'm so sad. please console me, please stop me, please be my man"

4)In conclusion, I think her action was not well-grounded though I tried very hard to understand her stupid action as a way of impulse.
That scene was short of detail which is Miura's good forte, I think.
and I dare to say that views between men and women are totally different. so I know most of guys would think "is Puella nuts?"
"why should puella criticize our pretty, lovely and perfect girl?"
"maybe Puella is jealous?"...... but they are all natural.
and I also know the most important thing that if Caska had other personality, the story couldn't be developed easily. -_-;;

*** In my previous post I said she need not be as strong as two guys--- "strong" means physical strength or force in my writing.
I know she is a strong woman. but what makes me bitch at her is why such a strong girl should fall into that stupid whining thing just like a child with Griffith or Guts? ho~ is this a nature of love?
as Caska shows her weak points to Guts so many times?
bawahaaaaaa~

and I do hope I get to like "girls in berserk" if we can meet another female main characters except Caska.
yeah, in a word, anyway Caska sucks to me. :p
But..Puella Caska was no perfect,before,simply Miura wanted to show us what a strong woman she was and what a potential future  Guts had if... well you know the little incident of the eclipse, because the real story of Guts begin after the eclipse with the black warrior.The golden years were just a prequel. Caska was always inteded to be as she is now a load and reminder.And the hawks were domed the minute they were conceived. It is a testament at Miura genius that we loved them so.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Sorry Roberto, but Puella’s completely right.

Caska has many weaknesses! It’s disgusting, I frankly can’t wait until she’s disposed of and gone from the series. And she’s not the only one that needs to go either, look at Serpico for instance, he’s just like Caska without the boobs (and that’s the ONLY physical difference). I mean, that spineless loser probably castrated himself long ago by the order of Master Farnese.  He’s a weakling just like Caska, except Caska at least stands up for herself every once in awhile.  Serpico just stands there blinking like an idiot, trying to form a thought of his own, or maybe work up a little nerve, so far he’s been less then successful at both.  He has absolutely no will, he’s worse then the child Caska is, he’s just an overgrown child’s play thing; he’s basically that stuffed raggedy rabbit Farnese used to carry around, and he’s probably going to share it’s fate.  Seeing him sacrificed will make me just as happy as when weak old Caska gets it from the Beast.  Farnese too, ahhh, nobody loves her, boo hoo hoo, or she’s just blind to see it, spoiled brat doesn’t even know how to love, she just wants it, pathetic, I hope Guts cleaves her.  Griffith too, he’s a complete tool, a weakling that has to hide in a dream because he couldn’t last in reality for five minutes. Come to think of it, Guts is dragging a weak woman around with him instead of living for himself, all because he supposedly “loves” her, that’s weak as hell, why can’t he get on with his life like a strong, independent person would. He and the Beast could have lived happily ever after, but it’s too late now, he SUCKS.  I can’t wait until Theresia shoots him in the back, or kills Caska, Guts would probably die from grief, that big sissy, then we could see the story of a strong heroine.

-Griffith

P.S. You know, weak characters come from weak writers… Kentarou Miura, this ones for you!
grifbutt.jpg

Pucker up! :-*​
 

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
i didn't explain myself well:the REAL Caska it is not the Caska of the hawks (pre eclipse) it is the Caska-Helena the semi-vegetable: She has not strenght nor weaknes, she simply exist and if she loved or not Guts before is no longer important: what se feels now is something else that we have yet to understand.
 

puella

Berserk forever
.  I can’t wait until Theresia shoots him in the back, or kills Caska, Guts would probably die from grief, that big sissy, then we could see the story of a strong heroine.

-Griffith
Ohhhhhh~ Go Theresia! kill every god damn weak Characters!!
Actually, I really really want Slan to be reborn instead of Griffith!
hoi hoi!
 
Sorry Roberto, but Puella’s completely right.

Caska has many weaknesses! It’s disgusting, I frankly can’t wait until she’s disposed of and gone from the series. And she’s not the only one that needs to go either, look at Serpico for instance, he’s just like Caska without the boobs (and that’s the ONLY physical difference). I mean, that spineless loser probably castrated himself long ago by the order of Master Farnese.  He’s a weakling just like Caska, except Caska at least stands up for herself every once in awhile.  Serpico just stands there blinking like an idiot, trying to form a thought of his own, or maybe work up a little nerve, so far he’s been less then successful at both.  He has absolutely no will, he’s worse then the child Caska is, he’s just an overgrown child’s play thing; he’s basically that stuffed raggedy rabbit Farnese used to carry around, and he’s probably going to share it’s fate.  Seeing him sacrificed will make me just as happy as when weak old Caska gets it from the Beast.  Farnese too, ahhh, nobody loves her, boo hoo hoo, or she’s just blind to see it, spoiled brat doesn’t even know how to love, she just wants it, pathetic, I hope Guts cleaves her.  Griffith too, he’s a complete tool, a weakling that has to hide in a dream because he couldn’t last in reality for five minutes. Come to think of it, Guts is dragging a weak woman around with him instead of living for himself, all because he supposedly “loves” her, that’s weak as hell, why can’t he get on with his life like a strong, independent person would. He and the Beast could have lived happily ever after, but it’s too late now, he SUCKS.  I can’t wait until Theresia shoots him in the back, or kills Caska, Guts would probably die from grief, that big sissy, then we could see the story of a strong heroine.

-Griffith

P.S. You know, weak characters come from weak writers… Kentarou Miura, this ones for you!

It's evil Griffith.... :eek:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
It's evil Griffith....
Heh, not evil (my normal condition), just tired and on a sarcasm binge.

A little taken aback as well, seeing Caska getting trashed and called weak because she doesn't live up to a standard of "strong" that not even Guts meets.

-Griffith
 

Lliugusamui

around the corner
i'm flabbergasted, griffith

first you talk about Caska and explain her relationship with the 2 guys being very positive with her
second i see a Caska disgusting , from now come a serie of "degradations" of Serpico, Farneze, Griffith and all ...Kentaro Miura too
what's wrong, hell?even though you're ( it is not only for you but for everybody ) in bad mood or somethin' like that, it's not a reason of saying what you know, moreover contraryly of precedent post

this famous triangle isn't as weak as you say at all , i'm not gonna argue coz it has been so many times and i don't want to make a huge post like the females posters around here :eek:
no offense heh ? ;)
 

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
in vol.9 when she tried to jump off the fall in front of Guts' eyes.

me? what a foolish, stupid and ridiculous girl!
the reasons are

1) she knows that she comes to love Guts but not even confessing it, choose to die? O.k I understand this but

2) If she really decided to kill herself, why she changed her mind so quickly? maybe it took just ten seconds! What a woman!

3) and you know, those who really want to commit sucide, never act like that. I mean they choose to die all alone, without anybody.
thus her action was just like "Guts, I'm so sad. please console me, please stop me, please be my man"

4)In conclusion, I think her action was not well-grounded though I tried very hard to understand her stupid action as a way of impulse.

*grins* Why did Casca choose to fall? It was all very simple really. I mean...

For over a year she had kept the Hawks together, fought tooth and nail just to stay alive and on top of things. She had carried that burden alone, because none of the other Hawks left really could share it with her. For over a year she had to live with the fact that Gatts felt more loyal to himself than to his friends and had just walked away, without even turning around to look at them. For over a year she had to live with the knowledge that Griffith was a captive, tortured, just because she had been too worried about Gatts to even consider that he might do something stupid. She had not even looked at him as he sat in the snow, just at the leaving Gatts. Can we say guilt trip anyone? But Casca's more loyal than anything else. She would never, ever give up as long as someone else needed her, she fights not for herself, but for others. Not just Gatts and Griffith, but the rest of the Hawks as well. So she just could not allow herself to quit, or to just rush the castle in a suicidial attack. Can anyone imagine living under that strain? She didn't even have the strength to feed herself.

And then Gatts comes back. Not only that, but he saves the day as well. In a moment, all her hard work seemed petty in comparison, because suddenly everyone had their hopes back. Because of Gatts, not her. Perhaps she was jelaous, perhaps she was angry... but most of all I think she must have felt a bit like a failure. I think she expected Gatts to feel the same way about her, I think she expected him to blame her. She blamed herself after all, so why should not Gatts do the same? First she got mad and attacked him, accused him, but when he didn't fight back I think she realised one thing.

She could not kill him.
He was better than her.
She loved him.
He could do this... could save Griffith, could save the Hawks...

Finally she could just... rest. Could just give up. Could just close her eyes and stop worrying. She wasn't needed anymore. Gatts didn't need her (he had left). The Hawks didn't need her (they had Gatts now). Griffith didn't need her (he loved Gatts anyway). And so... she could finally stop fighting.

I don't think death was anything she looked for, just rest, just to stop fighting and throw herself to the winds. Tired. Lost. Unloved. Failed. And what's more... I think it was a bit of a subconscious test.

She expected Gatts to let her fall. To agree with her judgement of herself. She was useless. He didn't care about her. So why bother saving her. I honestly don't think she expected Gatts to reach out to her. She never really thought that he would care, much less love her.

And when he caught her? Hurt, bleeding, but still caught her? It was an affirmation that she could never have asked for with words, because face it, she's not a verbal sort of girl. She never could ask Gatts if he loved her. She never could tell him that she needed him. So she gave him the opportunity to prove it. I think that was the proof she needed for herself. Gatts though her worth saving, and thus she could let go of her burden. No, not let go. Share it. With Gatts.

In conclusion: I thought it perfectly fitting that she did what she did. Not because she wanted to die, but because she was tired of it all. This was her way of bringing everything to a conclusion. No talk. No thoughts. Just reactions. Did Gatts blame her? yes/no. Was she still needed? yes/no. Once those questions were answered she could continue with her life... She was not suicidial at all, although she was perfectly ready to die (there's a difference). She never expected Gatts to be her man and save her, I think that was the real suprise she got. That he wanted her as a woman, not just as a valuable member of the Hawks. Gatts wanted HER. No wonder she was back to normal so soon afterwards...

----

Stupid? I guess... just like Griffith's stupid way of thinking of friends, or Gatts stupid way of never realising that he needed people, not just himself.

It's that stupidity that makes me love Miura.
 

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
Griffith: Oh dear, now you're proving yourself stupid again. Writing sarcasm that people doesn't even get... oh you wicked and depraved individual. Cynism? Sarcasm? Those are tools that are wielded with a chainsaw here, not with a scalpel. Shame on you for trying. *dies giggling* If it's any consolation I laughed out loud here, confusing several people at work. Damn, that one was good...

Serpico just stands there blinking like an idiot, trying to form a thought of his own, or maybe work up a little nerve, so far he’s been less then successful at both. He has absolutely no will, he’s worse then the child Caska is, he’s just an overgrown child’s play thing; he’s basically that stuffed raggedy rabbit Farnese used to carry around, and he’s probably going to share it’s fate.

*just dies from laughter* Pure gold I tell you.... pure gold... I wish I could draw, then I'd make that whole rant into a SD strip...

.
 

eintrigga

Today's Yamaba?
*just dies from laughter* Pure gold I tell you.... pure gold... I wish I could draw, then I'd make that whole rant into a SD strip...

hmm i could imagine the strip, griffith will be sd griffith but who will be puella?
 

Kenoh-Sama

"What is love? Not that I want some or anythi
Yeah human beings at there worse are disgusting. Every Character is Berserk is not at their best. Interms of perfection the Only thing perfect is Casca's body. I don't see the characters as weak however. When I think of weak I think of Shinji (The flat out personification of weak). He didn't even have the strength to fight. I give Guts and Grifith credit for not sitting on their asses and crying like little bitches. Farneese I don't see as weak either. Yes I do agree with the "spoiled brat" sentiment but the fact that she's changing her life (for better or worse) is commendable. Why does Guts carry Casca around? Easy. Because he loves her. You have to comprehend what a powerful thing love is. It's unfathomable how powerful that can be.

I believe that children are our future
teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they posses inside
Give them a sense of pride....something something something something.

As sung by Mr. Randy Watson

Coming to America rules! :)
 

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
*grins* Why did Casca choose to fall? It was all very simple really. I mean...

For over a year she had kept the Hawks together, fought tooth and nail just to stay alive and on top of things. She had carried that burden alone, because none of the other Hawks left really could share it with her. For over a year she had to live with the fact that Gatts felt more loyal to himself than to his friends and had just walked away, without even turning around to look at them. For over a year she had to live with the knowledge that Griffith was a captive, tortured, just because she had been too worried about Gatts to even consider that he might do something stupid. She had not even looked at him as he sat in the snow, just at the leaving Gatts. Can we say guilt trip anyone? But Casca's more loyal than anything else. She would never, ever give up as long as someone else needed her, she fights not for herself, but for others. Not just Gatts and Griffith, but the rest of the Hawks as well. So she just could not allow herself to quit, or to just rush the castle in a suicidial attack. Can anyone imagine living under that strain? She didn't even have the strength to feed herself.

And then Gatts comes back. Not only that, but he saves the day as well. In a moment, all her hard work seemed petty in comparison, because suddenly everyone had their hopes back. Because of Gatts, not her. Perhaps she was jelaous, perhaps she was angry... but most of all I think she must have felt a bit like a failure. I think she expected Gatts to feel the same way about her, I think she expected him to blame her. She blamed herself after all, so why should not Gatts do the same? First she got mad and attacked him, accused him, but when he didn't fight back I think she realised one thing.

She could not kill him.
He was better than her.
She loved him.
He could do this... could save Griffith, could save the Hawks...

Finally she could just... rest. Could just give up. Could just close her eyes and stop worrying. She wasn't needed anymore. Gatts didn't need her (he had left). The Hawks didn't need her (they had Gatts now). Griffith didn't need her (he loved Gatts anyway). And so... she could finally stop fighting.

I don't think death was anything she looked for, just rest, just to stop fighting and throw herself to the winds. Tired. Lost. Unloved. Failed. And what's more... I think it was a bit of a subconscious test.

She expected Gatts to let her fall. To agree with her judgement of herself. She was useless. He didn't care about her. So why bother saving her. I honestly don't think she expected Gatts to reach out to her. She never really thought that he would care, much less love her.

And when he caught her? Hurt, bleeding, but still caught her? It was an affirmation that she could never have asked for with words, because face it, she's not a verbal sort of girl. She never could ask Gatts if he loved her. She never could tell him that she needed him. So she gave him the opportunity to prove it. I think that was the proof she needed for herself. Gatts though her worth saving, and thus she could let go of her burden. No, not let go. Share it. With Gatts.

In conclusion: I thought it perfectly fitting that she did what she did. Not because she wanted to die, but because she was tired of it all. This was her way of bringing everything to a conclusion. No talk. No thoughts. Just reactions. Did Gatts blame her? yes/no. Was she still needed? yes/no. Once those questions were answered she could continue with her life... She was not suicidial at all, although she was perfectly ready to die (there's a difference). She never expected Gatts to be her man and save her, I think that was the real suprise she got. That he wanted her as a woman, not just as a valuable member of the Hawks. Gatts wanted HER. No wonder she was back to normal so soon afterwards...

----

Stupid? I guess... just like Griffith's stupid way of thinking of friends, or Gatts stupid way of never realising that he needed people, not just himself.

It's that stupidity that makes me love Miura.
What can I say?I couldn't agree more.
 

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
:-[Re: Casca's life, and the two men in it.

I hate when.....

1) a pretty woman with big boob and butt is crying for help. then
a macho man (like Sylversta Stallion) appears and save her.
and they hug and kiss.

2) a pretty woman with long blonde hair and tight suits or mini skirt
was hanging on the cliff and that macho man...blahblahblah
we can enjoy completely her body shape and there is always a wind to blow her skirt!!

3) a pretty woman looks like a professional killer is fighting with some guys.
she usually wears a mini skirt and high-heeled then. why should such a professional female killer wear like that even when she fight? does it make sense?

4)when FBI raids into somebody' house, they, a woman and a guy are usually having sex.


and! do you think 4 items above don't belong to Caska at all? ::)
When it's necessary that Caska's brand is shown, her clothes should be always taken off. -__-;;

.........
but I like her nudity.
and  I've been thinking over tanning my skin just like Caska this summer.I'm too pale.
Have you ever read something (comics of novel) about Modesty Blaise? you will love her.
 

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
Griffith, I think there are only 0.6923% people who hope Farneese can be Guts' new lover.  Maybe I'm the only one. :eek:

because Farneese is

2) not sexier tnatn Caska
5) has  sadism
about those two points you are wrong
 

puella

Berserk forever
Re: :-[Casca's life, and the two men in it.

Have you ever read something (comics of novel) about Modesty Blaise? you will love her.
No. and thank you for recommending.
Well, I like such a girl(main female character) as in Cowboy Bebop. I can't remember her name but I do like such a type. :p
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Re:  :-[Casca's life, and the two men in it.

Well, I like such a girl(main female character) as in Cowboy Bebop. I can't remember her name but I do like such a type. :p
Faye Valentine! ;)

-Griffith
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Well, but Miura does ;D . He said the series would not have a depressing ending in an interview a while back.
 
He said the series would not have a depressing ending in an interview a while back.


well, that's a relief. i don't think i'd be able to use my brain afterwards. hell, cronus can attest to my reaction after watching all of the bersrk anime in one day.

but there will always be a part of me that would wonder what the series would/could have been if it did end on a down note.
 

Kenoh-Sama

"What is love? Not that I want some or anythi
well, that's a relief.  i don't think i'd be able to use my brain afterwards.  hell, cronus can attest to my reaction after watching all of the bersrk anime in one day.

but there will always be a part of me that would wonder what the series would/could have been if it did end on a down note.

Glad to see that too! :)
 

Shaughn

What can you tell me about Voodoo?
I've been doing a lot of thinking about this issue myself, as Casca is one of the more deep characters throughout the story (though I find that just about everyone in Berserk is better-written than in your average anime/manga).

It seems to me that Casca sees Gatts and Griffith differently than they see each other. IMHO, Casca sees Griffith as a dedicated and driven person, which is true. However, I believe Casca thought that Griffith was just as dedicated to the people in the Hawks as he was to his dream, which I don't think was the case. Griffith saw everyone in the Hawks as a means to an end; tools for achieving his dream. He was dedicated to them, and to Casca, only in their ability to help him accomplish his goals. Even though she felt dedicated to him for giving her a dream of her own, Griffith's interest was not in providing her with freedom so much as it was as getting another means to his end.

I think that Gatts ended up being what Casca wanted from Griffith. First, he was a strong and skilled warrior. I'm not trying to say that every woman needs to latch onto a strong man, but I get the impression that a woman of Casca's mettle would only settle for someone that could command her respect as a soldier. She herself said that she was a warrior before a woman. Secondly, Gatts ended up being the one that helped to bring the Hawks back together, eventually proving that his dedication was to the group before the mission.

Gatts and Griffith saw each other for what they truly were and how nobody else on the Hawks seemed to do. Gatts seemed to understand that Griffith was more dedicated to his dream than to his army, though perhaps he was unprepared for his decision during the eclipse. Griffith saw Gatts as someone who was looking for direction, though perhaps he couldn't understand that his influence would inspire freedom. Gatts believed that going out on his own and living his dreams would be a compliment to Griffith's influence, while Griffith seemed to see it as a kind of betrayal.

That's why I think Casca is so interesting; she knows exacly how dedicated Gatts and Griffith are, she just gets their goals wrong. Gatts cares about more than "swinging his sword around", and it happens that he cares for both the Hawks and for her. She's also 100% right that Griffith is the most dediecated person in Midland, she thought it was to the Hawks rather than to his goals.

I don't think her interpretation makes her weak, just idealistic. I think most of us would like to believe that if a friend of ours was given the choice between great power and his or her friends, they'd choose us.

In the end, I think she loved Gatts but still felt dedicated to Griffith. She apologized for not being able to go with Gatts, not because she was staying out of love for Griffith, but because she felt that it was her responsibility. Again, she's a soldier before she's a woman.

But hey, that's just how I see it, and I'm a newbie. ;) Lemme know what you think!

~Shaughn
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
An excellent post, some good assertions! But there's just one small thing Id like to point out:

Griffith saw everyone in the Hawks as a means to an end; tools for achieving his dream.
Ultimately this is true. However, there is little evidence to suggest this is how he felt about the Hawks pre-eclipse. When the God Hand forced Griffith to choose between loyalty and power, he chose power (wisely in my opinion, but im an ass and thats another story altogether...)

The strongest resemblence to proof of a relation between 'pre and post eclipse hawks loyalty' is his treatment of Guts in volume 8 of the manga (episode 18 in anime) during their second duel. Griffith says "you belong to me".

This is a rather strong choice of words, in my opinion. For just the day before, Griffith and Guts were exchanging words seemingly in the manner of close friends. Griffith even asks Guts opinion of his actions. Truly if Guts was only a tool to Griffith, then his opinion would hold no weight. This however is not the case.
 
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