Casca's life, and the two men in it.

S

Shaughn

What can you tell me about Voodoo?
Truly if Guts was only a tool to Griffith, then his opinion would hold no weight. This however is not the case.
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Hmmm, I thought about this point too. And I'm torn, as I can't decide whether or not Griffith wanted Gatts to "belong" to him out of friendship, or mereely to keep himself sharp.

There's evidence for both sides of this argument, I believe. Griffith does seem to relate to Gatts more than to any other member of the Hawks. It's Gatts he sends on the special missions, he asks Gatts if he approves of Griffith's methods, etc. However, he DOES tell the princess that none of the Hawks are his friends.

I believe that Gatts is included in that statement and that Casca was right in saying that Gatts was Griffith's motivation to excel. He knew Gatts might be able to surpass him, so he needed to stay one step ahead.

Then again, maybe you're right... in the end, Griffith couldn't keep up with Gatts, which is evidenced in how easily he lost their second duel. Maybe he stopped seeing Gatts as a motivator and started seeing him as a friend? In any event, it's clear that he wasn't expecting Gatts either to leave or be better than him.

Thanks for the kind words on my first post!

~Shaughn
 
D

D1cebanger

Crasher
Yes, I definitely agree with Walter and Shaughn,

However, it is still hard for me to understand that all this circumstances had to be happened between the three of them.
I strongly believe that these both men, Gatts and Griffith, ....they had such friendship, such bound, that even Griffith may not realized - at first - how powerful his belief towards Gatts that could made him forget his Dream.
It is too ironic, the story...
And what'd happen if the situation would be different.. as if.. Caska's not a woman? And the two never met?

I sometimes wonder about this ~~

I guess. some things may never changed at all.
Gatts will be Gatts, but has no boundary. Absolutely heartless, and all he's going to live- is for killing. Having his own fight..with nowhere to go.

Griffith will be Griffith, no matter what his ambition is no one can ever ruin it.

And Caska's...(no matter about the gender) somehow I still think that even Caska had the chance to be the replacement of "Gatts" itself to Griffith. Not the same, yes... but she'll absolutely turned out to be amazing!
But like Gatts himself, she would not "live".
To be honest...Caska had nowhere to go from the first time he met Griffith...Like she said, she's already gone...she has never exist in his dream. Because Gatts is the only one who can made Griffith a "human".

And it doesn't matter if Gatts had chosen to leave the Hawks or not, Griffith would still rule.
It is possible maybe, that no matter what happens, the fate cannot be changed.
Whether Gatts is there or not, whether Griffith would suffered or not, he will be the King afterall, right?
....just like what Zodd said before :
"You will never be able to evade it"
It is just a small matter of time for the ambitious man to reveal his true self, and the meeting with Gatts only make it even worse.
But because of this also, there's a small spark in each one of them, that create hope for the slightest changes.
I guess, this is the most easy-worst thing that Gatts can make for everyone. And so does Caska...
It's absurd and unabsurd

To love a special one,
To lose it,
Then found his own meaning.

It is Absolute, pain.

(T_T) hics
 
A

aelka

*gasp* you know how hot I am? *no.*
I guess the biggest flaw of the readers is always attempting to sort out which part is "good" and which part is "evil".  I don't think Berserk is about conotation of good and evil at all, I think it's just about these predestined life cycles and insanity of various levels.

About the good or bad ending: will you accept it as an ending if it's a bad ending? It had been bad since the start, and you want the story to settle. So it can't be bad, it has to be good or else Gatts would still be on his journey, or Griffith will still be in search of his dream.
 
A

ARHicks00

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Fishbomb: It sounds you would like Caska to have her own series. Unfortunately, you can tell by the fact that Caska doesn't have any determination to be on top, follows behind other people and just sits back & pouts, that she probably wasn't meant to have the spotlight and that she isn't totally a strong character. Caska, like Gatsu, is only human and can take so much. I think your theory of Caska going insane because the intensity between G&G is wrong. Because that factor would indicate that Caska was obsessive with the both of them. Caska, after living a life of being violate or attempted violated or being lusted after, she did the only she could or does when being advance unwantingly, which is reverting to la-la land like most of us do when we are stressed out by life's problems.

Indeed, Griffith was her first love interest and you have to understand that Caska most likely has been ignored and underminded. To be sold by her father, to a lucious noble, probably crushed her spirit and from then on she knew wouldn't be taken seriously unless tried being out going. When Griffith recognized her for her skill, she fell in love with him for that. But when Gatsu took her place immediately, Caska was again being underminded so she took her hatred and jealous out on Gatsu. But Gatsu, like Griffith, recognized her for her skills and not her body, which again lead to Caska falling in love against. Her love for Griffith had faded, but had been replaced with a soldier loyalty.(Which is why she stayed with the light hawks.)

Now off the subject a bit, Griffith was order to kill all the light hawk in order to become a God Hand member. Going back to the subject of Caska, after being violated, I think in sense, Caska is dead or the walking dead. Griffith is allow her to live so he can't keep her around to shield himself from Gatsu because he knows Gatsu maybe the one who can defeat him and the rest of the Godhand. In otherwords, she's a puppet once more under Griffith's eye.

I remember in one chapter Griffith tried to make Gatsu into a Godhand member. Mostly likely, he was doing it so Gatsu would his quest for revenge. I think everything Griffith does, including raping Caska, is an effort to stop or slow down, Gatsu in achieving his ultimate destiny.
 
A

ARHicks00

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
I believe it was chapter when Gatsu had to battle the count and Griffith appeared with the rest of God hand. Gatsu was about to slice Griffith in half, but he got blown through a wall by his telekinetic ability. He went unconscious and the Godhand began talking about either killing him or making him a member, which I think Griffith was for.
 
Olivier_Hague

Olivier_Hague

the Godhand began talking about either killing him or making him a member, which I think Griffith was for.
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No, Femto said nothing.
_Slan_ just said it would be nice if Guts became "one of them" (and it doesn't necessarily mean "a God Hand", after all).
 
Griffith

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Griffith is allow her to live so he can't keep her around to shield himself from Gatsu because he knows Gatsu maybe the one who can defeat him and the rest of the Godhand. In otherwords, she's a puppet once more under Griffith's eye.
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I don’t think so, Griffith doesn’t seem to take Guts as any kind of serious physical threat to himself or his power, he only fears his possible feelings for Guts. Anyway, using Casca is overly complicated, he could just have Zoddo hold Guts at bay if he saw him as a threat, or kill him. Plus, all indications point to Griffith being totally badass in his own right.

-Griffith
 
A

ARHicks00

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Olivier: I didn't say, Griffith asks for him to become one it just seems like he was for it.

Griffith: Again as I said earlier about Gatsu almost killing Femto/Griffith. Griffith was shooked to see that Gatsu was able to fight off the pain of his brand in being in his presence just to go for a finish attack. As arrogant as Griffith is, I think Griffith knows Gatsu isn't just any bug he can squash. He's probably quite aware that Gatsu is getting strong with every battle. He just believes he's safe since he playing on factors that he thinks will protect him for the time being, but Griffith knows that Zodd won't be able to take on Gatsu forever. Pretty soon, he even put aside Caska. And if Griffith is too arrogant to see that, he may fall from grace a lot soon then he thinks.
 
T

The Blade King

"No Fate But What We Make." John/Sarah Connor.
Fishbomb said:
Puella's comment in the episode 193 thread got me thinking... and since my ponderings usually grow pnderous I moved them here as a prememptive strike. There are too few Casca discussions out there anyway...

Hello Fishbomb

I would first like to say that your opinions on Caska are the best I have heard of to date. Caska is way stronger than Griffith and Guts combined. when i say strength i mean in the only true strength in life wisdom. she is unselfish, very careful of who she gives out her trust to, and sees the childishness of Griffith and Guts in their tunnel vision. Although her being a woman gives her the upper hand since wemon are by far the superior sex. Caska matures faster than Griffith and Guts and she displays this in her conversation Guts before their lovemaking scene where she says that Guts is just like Griffith both persuing their dreams selfishly.

Caska and Guts are completely identical. Both were completely betrayed by their father figures in the exact same way. They both saw Griffith as a the positive father figure they never had. Guts tried to earn the respect of Griffith like a son does with his father by becoming his equal. Caska used Griffith in the same way but different because the father\daughter relationship is different. She got the emotional support a daughter is supposed to receive from Griffith. When Griffith gave her the sword in the scene with the noble he did what fathers do today in raising their daughters. Father`s raise their daughters today not to wait for around for a man to save them but teach or show themselves that they have tremendous power within themselves. Also a true fathers duty is to guard and protect his daughter. Which Griffith did. I think she started to feel a little Freudian towards Griffith as she got older. This might expalin her feelings towards him. She and Guts both realise as all mature children do that their parents are not Gods but just people and thus begin to feel a need to break free from their parents. This would explain how she could truly love Guts and guenuinly leave with him after the planned rescue of Griffith. After Griffith is rescued and Caska nurses him she then chooses between her love with Guts and her DUTY to her sick father Griffith and decides to stay with him.

Another very interesting point about Caska which I believe she is stronger than Guts and Griffith is that she relies on nothing not human. Guts relies on his Sword and Griffith relies on his Belehit. They both cannot function without their inanimate objects whereas Caska can. She relies on the strongest power in the universe which is LOVE. Love of father and husband. It will be interesting to see how the story unfolds when and if Caska emerges from her insanity. What power will she come out with. She is by far the key between Guts and Griffith.

The Blade King


]
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SaiyajinNoOuji

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
Wow people, there are a lot of good points being said and I just want to add to the whole Griffith and Gattsu friend thing is...

Griffith had said that Gattsu was the only one to ever make him forget his dream. If Gattsu was really Griffith's friend and he was the only one to make him feel that way. if I was Griffith and that person wanted to leave. I would kinda panic in a sense thinking... Ahhh crap, he is going to leave? Who am I going to turn to, Who is going to understand me? Thus Griffith saying, "You belong to me".

Also, what do you think would have happened if during the scene where Gattsu and Caska are easedropping on Griffth and Charolette and Griffith had said, "Well, There is only one person who I consider a friend. That is the dark fellow with the big sword." Now I am aware that he did not know that they were there and that if Gattsu really was his friend then he would have mentioned it anyways, but maybe Griffith thought if he just singled just one person out, it would make Charolette look at him differently. Also, what do you think Gattsu's and Caska's attitude be? I think Caska would be crushed beyond all belief and Gattsu would have mixed emotions.... That is just my two cents, I hope I made some valid points.

;D
 
S

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost
Griffith also said

Regarding how someone would be a true friend of his...way back when he was talking to Charlotte about his dreams. He said that the Hawks were not his friends...the only person who would be his friend was someone who was not afraid to pursue his own dream, and not be afraid to defend it, even again himself ( Griffith).

Perhaps Griffith is afraid to be Guts' friend...because in doing so, that would make Guts 'equal' to him, and he wants to be better so he can 'look down' ...something Guts refuses to let him do.

Such conflict cannot breed a traditionally 'happy' ending...there are so many tragic results in this ever-convoluted story. Destiny, fate, death...are the all the same?

LG
 
SaiyajinNoOuji

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
What if in the end both Gattsu and Griffith go at it for so long that they sacrifice/destroy everything and are the only two left. That would be pretty messed up...bleh :-X
 
M

Makkuro

El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!
SaiyajinNoOuji said:
What if in the end both Gattsu and Griffith go at it for so long that they sacrifice/destroy everything and are the only two left. That would be pretty messed up...bleh :-X
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When you say "go at it"... do you mean doggy style?
 
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