Author Topic: Episode 255  (Read 44143 times)

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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #100 on: April 29, 2005, 10:32:22 PM »
Let me put it to you this way: Guts is Shaq, and Serpico is Kobe. See what I mean? =)

Offline QuestionMark

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #101 on: April 29, 2005, 11:33:47 PM »
Lol....... Sure, that's a good enough paralell for me.

Perhaps it's simply a matter of semantics-- what I define as "hate", what others do... etc.   The shaq/ kobe analogy is truly inspired by the way.  :)

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #102 on: April 30, 2005, 12:43:25 AM »
Lol....... Sure, that's a good enough paralell for me.

Perhaps it's simply a matter of semantics-- what I define as "hate", what others do... etc.   The shaq/ kobe analogy is truly inspired by the way.  :)

It was an epiphany; perfectly summed up everything I was trying to say. I should work on being that concise all the time instead of the long-winded ramblings. =)

Offline Serpico

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #103 on: April 30, 2005, 05:06:06 AM »
"I was thinking I'd like to kill you."

Anyway, I think Serpico is realistic enough to know that Guts isn't the type of guy you just wound and he limps off. Griffith came to the same conclusion just before their final duel. Oh, and I think Serpico does hate Guts too, and it's mutual.


While I think you are right about not stopping at a mere wound under normal circumstances, I dont think either intends to kill the other in front of the children. They have certainly had "killer intent" with each other in the past, but Guts is forgiving when things turn out ok, particularly to Serpico and Farnese who were sever pains in the ass to him for a good while.

On youre 2nd point about when he helped Guts, thats fully possible it was just a matter of survival. I still don't feel he hates Guts, but he fears the journey and even recognizes Guts himself as an extreme danger to everyone around him in that armor. Overall I feel he also has no great desire to help them. If nothing else though Serpico is certainly a master of disguising his true nature, to everyone but Farneses mom anyway hehe... so hating Guts is possible although i dont really feel it.

Offline roberto999

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #104 on: April 30, 2005, 07:57:44 AM »
While I think you are right about not stopping at a mere wound under normal circumstances, I don't think either intends to kill the other in front of the children. They have certainly had "killer intent" with each other in the past, but Guts is forgiving when things turn out ok, particularly to Serpico and Farnese who were sever pains in the ass to him for a good while.


I don't think either care so much about "the children moral safety" not to kill each other in front of them. That certainly would not be the first killing that they see.
 Surely Serpico is acting out of what he thinks is best for Farnese but there is also the "gunslinging factor" to consider. Both , Serpico and Guts, are masters of the sword in their own way, and after their first fight I am sure that both want to see for sure who is the absolute best.

BTW  in the Iliad was quoted a character that was invincible with the mace  but was killed  by an astute adversary that lured him in a wood where he   had no space to swing his weapon
« Last Edit: April 30, 2005, 08:02:57 AM by roberto999 »
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Offline SlimJ87D

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #105 on: May 01, 2005, 11:42:29 PM »
What I think would be smart of Guts is to smash like  10 or so pillars and stay withing that area. That way he'll be able to swing his sword freely. I dont know why, but I feel that Guts could beat him with just his fist alone...



I feel that the present Guts is twice as fast then he was here.
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Offline Trashcan

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #106 on: May 02, 2005, 01:40:54 AM »
Quote from: SlimJ87D
I feel that the present Guts is twice as fast then he was here.
[quote
I would normally agree, except that Guts then was in good health, whereas Guts now is still weakened from the ethereal wound and the fight with the Makara. Barring those factors, he could in all likelihood take Serp with a good right hook(or a left cross, if he felt like making things--permanent.)Perhaps that's why he is using the DS; he can't count on his body to react fast enough within Serpico's killing range in his current condition, so he's trying to hold him at bay. Maybe he's counting on Schierke's sentimentalism to kick in with some hypnosis. Wouldn't be the first time he got a little girl involved with one of his fights, either.
It's always the same. Now if you had the two eyes on the same side of the nose, for instance -- or the mouth at the top -- that would be some help.'

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Offline Serpico

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #107 on: May 02, 2005, 07:43:17 PM »
What I think would be smart of Guts is to smash like  10 or so pillars and stay withing that area. That way he'll be able to swing his sword freely. I dont know why, but I feel that Guts could beat him with just his fist alone...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/berserk-v09c05p102copy.jpg

I feel that the present Guts is twice as fast then he was here.

Twice as fast is probably pushing it unless you mean activating the berserker armor, cause he was already faster than griffith at that point and he still has human limitations :P As for winning with just his fist, I think Serpico is too skilled and too clever to lose against that alone. He is quite agile and evasive as we saw on the ledge battle when Guts tossed a bomb at him. In the case of the circus fighter he was actually using short blades on his hands and feet and not a sword where he could keep his body away from Guts range.

The full extent of Serpicos swordsmanship remains to be seen. I'd like to see Serpico fight Silat (thats his name right) now that you bring that up. Although its not his style we know Serpico has dead-eye aim for ranged weapons as well (thinks when he nailed and brought down a moving Guts with a twig) Hopefully he will go a couple rounds with Guts so we can really see what he's got. I think he will do better than Griffith becuase he recognizes Guts sword as the unstoppable force that it is, where Griffith made the mistake to try to parry it off. In Griffiths favor it was an honest mistake as that was pre-dragonslayer.

(unrelated rambling)
Griffith vs Serpico would still be awesome provided Serpico at least has use of the wind cloak to bring his movement up to speed with griffith. I dont know his current vulnerability although i assume any human body is subject to harm, but he seems to have demonic speed at the very least when he saved Casca. He might need both swords though if Griffiths fencing has improved.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #108 on: May 02, 2005, 08:04:07 PM »
As for winning with just his fist, I think Serpico is too skilled and too clever to lose against that alone. He is quite agile and evasive as we saw on the ledge battle

We also saw that he lost to Guts with just his fists. ;) Moreover, I'm not sure that Serpico would be out of the Dragon Slayer's range, even using a sword such as his.

Griffith vs Serpico would still be awesome provided Serpico at least has use of the wind cloak to bring his movement up to speed with griffith.

Griffith is in a totally different league, remember the Kushans shooting arrows at him? He could probably kill Serpico just by looking at him.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 08:11:55 PM by Aazealh »

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #109 on: May 02, 2005, 08:09:02 PM »

The full extent of Serpicos swordsmanship remains to be seen. I'd like to see Serpico fight Silat (thats his name right) now that you bring that up. Although its not his style we know Serpico has dead-eye aim for ranged weapons as well (thinks when he nailed and brought down a moving Guts with a twig) Hopefully he will go a couple rounds with Guts so we can really see what he's got. I think he will do better than Griffith becuase he recognizes Guts sword as the unstoppable force that it is, where Griffith made the mistake to try to parry it off. In Griffiths favor it was an honest mistake as that was pre-dragonslayer.

I think guts can draw from the armor's power without going in full berserker mode, as the fight with the alligator-familiars (what are we calling them now?) suggested.  Its just that doing that is like walking on a knife's edge.
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Offline SlimJ87D

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #110 on: May 02, 2005, 08:19:49 PM »
Twice as fast is probably pushing it unless you mean activating the berserker armor, cause he was already faster than Griffith at that point and he still has human limitations :P As for winning with just his fist, I think Serpico is too skilled and too clever to lose against that alone. He is quite agile and evasive as we saw on the ledge battle when Guts tossed a bomb at him. In the case of the circus fighter he was actually using short blades on his hands and feet and not a sword where he could keep his body away from Guts range.

The full extent of Serpicos swordsmanship remains to be seen. I'd like to see Serpico fight Silat (thats his name right) now that you bring that up. Although its not his style we know Serpico has dead-eye aim for ranged weapons as well (thinks when he nailed and brought down a moving Guts with a twig) Hopefully he will go a couple rounds with Guts so we can really see what he's got. I think he will do better than Griffith becuase he recognizes Guts sword as the unstoppable force that it is, where Griffith made the mistake to try to parry it off. In Griffiths favor it was an honest mistake as that was pre-dragonslayer.

(unrelated rambling)
Griffith vs Serpico would still be awesome provided Serpico at least has use of the wind cloak to bring his movement up to speed with griffith. I dont know his current vulnerability although i assume any human body is subject to harm, but he seems to have demonic speed at the very least when he saved Casca. He might need both swords though if Griffiths fencing has improved.

Well the reason why I'm saying Guts is twice as fast is because look at how large the dragon slayer is, I'm serious, compare it to his sword in my above post, his old sword is about 3 times larger then a normal sword and the dragonslayer is like 3 times larger then that.

Imagine how fast Guts can move without his Dragonslayer on his back or in one of his arms, He'd be able to run in while dodging the sword strikes and punch Serpico in the face with his metal arm that has a spring to smash his face in.

Griffith probably could have parried Guts sword if Guts wasn't as skilled as he was, but the reason why he couldn't is because Guts skill and swing was just too good, but to mention that the sword Guts was using wasn't like his other sword he killed 100 men with, maybe a Lil cheaper even.

And finally, don't forget this battle...



You think Serpico can cross blades with Zodd? And move that fast? I truly Believe that Guts is twice as fast as he was before the eclipse. If you're talking about human limitations, Guts has passed them about lets say 29 mangas ago.
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Offline C

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #111 on: May 02, 2005, 09:37:16 PM »
I agree with you Slimmy. In the fight with Zodd, on the Hill of Swords, I might be wrong, but I believe it was said Guts was faster than the human eye. Correct me if I am mistaken for I do not have time to look it up at this moment. Regardless, he is faster than a normal human, which is what Serpico is. The wind sword, while powerful, still will not keep Guts from killing Serpico. I myself, and I am sure others, think that some kind of interruption, or maybe Guts being nice will save Serpico.  ;D

 - C

Offline SlimJ87D

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #112 on: May 02, 2005, 09:58:44 PM »
Hey C, it's been quite awhile hasn't it? Man, I've been really busy, all that school stuff and dealing with AP exams now, not to mention it's my Senior year!!! I'm going to UCI then transfering to UCLA to join NROTC to become a SEAL to let you know.

Back on Topic, Yes, Guts was swinging faster then the human eye, because Rickert couldn't watch and tell what was going on, and he was moving very fast with hand springs and all that good stuff we see Guts do.
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Offline Serpico

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #113 on: May 02, 2005, 10:34:40 PM »
We also saw that he lost to Guts with just his fists. ;) Moreover, I'm not sure that Serpico would be out of the Dragon Slayer's range, even using a sword such as his.

Griffith is in a totally different league, remember the Kushans shooting arrows at him? He could probably kill Serpico just by looking at him.

Well i mean no dragonslayer for Guts. I dont think Serpico would get close to Guts fists. Not that i think he would win either. But he is the type who knows when to retreat or not fight to begin with if he sees no way to win. Also he is kinda like Guts in that anything goes, he is the type i can see to throw dirt in your eye if need be. We already know he doesnt mind dis-advantaging his oppenent.

For Griffith and the arrow thing, i dunno what he does there, either dodges them so fast no one can see or does some kinda phasing in and out of the astral realm so that it passes through him, which is my personal guess. Im not sure he can harm Serpico from there though. So far he has been killing people with his sword and not his eyes though hehe. Pretty much the same as he always did.

Well the reason why I'm saying Guts is twice as fast is because look at how large the dragon slayer is, I'm serious, compare it to his sword in my above post, his old sword is about 3 times larger then a normal sword and the dragonslayer is like 3 times larger then that.

Imagine how fast Guts can move without his Dragonslayer on his back or in one of his arms, He'd be able to run in while dodging the sword strikes and punch Serpico in the face with his metal arm that has a spring to smash his face in.

Griffith probably could have parried Guts sword if Guts wasn't as skilled as he was, but the reason why he couldn't is because Guts skill and swing was just too good, but to mention that the sword Guts was using wasn't like his other sword he killed 100 men with, maybe a Lil cheaper even.

And finally, don't forget this battle...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/berserk-v22c03p056copy.jpg

You think Serpico can cross blades with Zodd? And move that fast? I truly Believe that Guts is twice as fast as he was before the eclipse. If you're talking about human limitations, Guts has passed them about lets say 29 mangas ago.

I think he is faster than he was, just not twice as fast. He has always been beyond human in a sense yes, but he still has human limits and sometimes only survived by his wits, thats whats great about him. Except since he has been in the hazama he probably can defy them more, thats probably highly likely infact, so ill give you that he could be twice as fast, whos to say exactly. Skullknights horse doesnt even obey gravity. And SK himself is like a meatshredder quite literally.

As for crossing blades with zodd, I think Serpico would fare about the same as Griffith did. He might harm him but hes no match. I dont think Serpico is a match for Guts either except that he is very crafty. He did dodge Guts blade before, even if only by a cm. Since he slowed it down now I think he will be able to evade and try some strikes, which i think Guts will also evade w/o much trouble :-\

Hard to say much for sure but Guts is definitly better, stronger, and faster lol. Serpico skews the equation with his dirty tricks though, thats what i like about him  ::)

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #114 on: May 02, 2005, 11:29:14 PM »
For Griffith and the arrow thing, i dunno what he does there, either dodges them so fast no one can see or does some kinda phasing in and out of the astral realm so that it passes through him, which is my personal guess.
The arrows miss. Yes, it's actually that simple.
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Offline Serpico

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #115 on: May 02, 2005, 11:53:10 PM »
The arrows miss. Yes, it's actually that simple.

Another likely possibility I neglected to mention, but I can't say i see it as fact they simply missed w/o any action by Griffith. Same as with the Casca incident Griffiths actions remain unseen, instead only showing to the end results. In that case its much more obvious he did something amazing as he was not even in frame when the rocks were a foot from her head. They could've missed but you'd have to tell me what im missing if you know that as a certainty.

Offline Vaxillus

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #116 on: May 03, 2005, 12:13:14 AM »
Lemme take a stab at it.  As Griffith is destined to become king, causality is completely warped in his favor.  The Idea of Evil essentially manipulated causality so that the arrows would miss.

Offline IV

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #117 on: May 03, 2005, 12:29:31 AM »
What about Serpico's speed though SlimJ87D.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #118 on: May 03, 2005, 12:53:23 AM »
I don't think it matters too much whose been faster in the past, especially with Guts condition being questionable (the guys hands constantly shake now, is he gonna be able to catch Serp's sword again in the shape he's in?) and his ability to move at all being severely handicapped. Anyway, Serpico isn't trying to be better than Guts, he's trying to defeat him, and Guts isn't always faster or stronger than the Apostles he defeats.

Anyway, I kinda take speed and reflexes for granted with these two, but I'd say because of Serpico's size, style and the conditions, he still has the advantage in these departments. But I'm more interested in the improvisations they'll have to come up with when they do manage to trap one another. Another thing they're both excellent at.

Offline Serpico

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #119 on: May 03, 2005, 12:57:47 AM »
What about Serpico's speed though SlimJ87D.


heh thats what i was referring to before although i had forgot that Serpico tossed Guts own bombs back at him. He didnt even open his eyes there like he does when he is really serious. He cant be taken lightly.

Vaxillus, I know that why they would miss but Im saying I dont see where that would be shown as an absolute fact.

GNM Agreed 100% on your last post

Offline SlimJ87D

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #120 on: May 03, 2005, 01:00:32 AM »
THat was just one motion where he falls, We didn't see s large series of speed and combat, we can't really count on that. COmmon, he's having Gravity as his friend here as well, lol.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #121 on: May 03, 2005, 01:19:08 AM »
THat was just one motion where he falls, We didn't see s large series of speed and combat, we can't really count on that. COmmon, he's having Gravity as his friend here as well, lol.

He avoided Guts arrow attack, blew past him having to swing on a cliff face to get behind, in addition to stealing one of Guts' own weapons, lighting it, and throwing it at him in the process. He did all this so fast that Guts, with all his speed and reflexes, couldn't even react.

Offline Serpico

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #122 on: May 03, 2005, 01:35:27 AM »
THat was just one motion where he falls, We didn't see s large series of speed and combat, we can't really count on that. COmmon, he's having Gravity as his friend here as well, lol.

On top of what GriffithNM said if you remember the Kushan battle he  punctured the necks of 3 rushing Kushan soldiers all in a split second with pinpoint accuracy. Give him a little credit man  ::) He's good even when not being crafty. Also his small sword is alot harder to see at high speeds.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 01:47:16 AM by Serpico »

Offline SlimJ87D

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #123 on: May 03, 2005, 01:58:32 AM »
I'm not bashing him, he's a good swordsman, really he is. But in this Manga, we're suppose to see Guts as the ultimate bad ass, and I'm keeping that in mind because I feel that Serpico is outta his league.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #124 on: May 03, 2005, 02:44:31 AM »
I'm not bashing him, he's a good swordsman, really he is. But in this Manga, we're suppose to see Guts as the ultimate bad ass, and I'm keeping that in mind because I feel that Serpico is outta his league.

Yeah, like when he got anally raped. =)

Or when Griffith completely dominated him in their first two fights, or when Serpico downed him in the forest like he was playing fetch. Yes, Guts is the ultimate badass, but it doesn't mean he's invincible, and right now he's not healthy. Anyway, I think you're quite off base; while likely no man can compare to Guts' combination of speed, power, and reflexes, Serpico has managed to confront him on four different occasions and hasn't just survived unhurt (tough enough right there), he's actually had success; first time he just plain dropped a depleted Guts (still, after Guts played Azan like a fiddle and took out any other HICK that came near him), second time he drew blood landing a blow on Guts' face, and even more impressive, avoided Guts' own attack with the dragon slayer (just ask yourself how many times that's happened?), followed by his heroics frustrating Guts on the cliff face we've already discussed, and now he has Guts right where he wants him again. So, Serpico is actually about the only person who's shown that he's in Guts' league, as a matter of fact.

But yes, Guts is the ultimate badass and the main character; it's a safe bet Serpico isn't going to kill him or anything.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 02:47:51 AM by "Griffith No More!" »