Author Topic: Episode 255  (Read 44866 times)

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Offline QuestionMark

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2005, 02:45:44 PM »
Serpico bringing the duel to a head isn't soooo odd to me, but still, since the trolls and what not, he has more than once commented on how much Farnese is growing and changing as a person-- how she would put herself in danger to help another, how she smiles now, when she never really did before.  It's not as if he's unaware of the positive effects on Farnese of being in the group. 

It seemed to me that he must want to remove Guts from the picture for more selfish reasons.  When he got the wind-cape and sword he commented on how ironic it was, since he was so "bound" and the wind was so free, and again during the troll attack, he commented on how he hasn't really been able to move forward with Farnese into the new space she's entering, that they only shared their twisted sort of past.  Bascially, it seems to me that under the guise of helping Farnese's social position with the Vandimions, he's really serving himself.  He doesn't want her to change, even though he recoginizes at times how much good it's done her, because he doesn't feel capable of moving with her into that new space. 

He gave everything to be her slave, basically.  I mean, this is a guy who burnt his own mother at the stake for her (or did Farnese do it?-- either way, a traumatic experience).  Farnese is his whole world-- losing that would lead to just the sort of desperation he seems to be showing in the duel.  Of course, Guts' appearance at the ball does pretty much mean "social/political suicide" for her, but I'm not so sure she really cares about that anymore.  I mean, she's been traveling with the Black Swordsman of her own free will-- talk about sacrilige.


Offline xechnao

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #76 on: April 23, 2005, 03:50:29 PM »
And what one?They(Guts and co) cannot know if Farnese is happy or not to have returned to her home. Anyway Serpico is the one that saw the encounter bethween Farnese and Magnifico so is also the one that know what nthier real deal was. Also with "mother dearest" greasing the goose the way she does, I am not sure at 100% that Farnese is now so determined to leave for going adventuring again.However good old Ganishka could change many things with his attack on Vritanis...

Farnese's sudden reaction staying there without turning back to face them all but something normal it was. I think they have every right in their relationship to go after amd check what's going on.
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
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Offline Metal Soldier

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #77 on: April 23, 2005, 05:21:15 PM »
I'm not suprised Serpico was waiting for them, ready to fight Guts again. Walter hit the nail on the head I believe. The only question I have is how far will it go for them before it gets interupted.

Thanks a lot for the scans, you guys rock as always.

Offline dwarfkicker

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #78 on: April 24, 2005, 10:43:15 PM »
It just dawned on me. One more chapter to go and vol 29 will be complete. I'm willing to bet it's sooooo gonna end on a cliffhanger leaving the reader wanting more.


I'm getting ahead of myself.  I forgot for sec that we also have the individual chapters.  Miura won't leave us hanging for long.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 10:45:39 PM by Dwarf Kicker »

Offline Berzerker_Reola908

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #79 on: April 25, 2005, 02:58:02 AM »
I really hope Serpico gets his ass whooped in this chapter.
But then again he was smart e-nuff to call Guts into the pillars just to fight.

Offline guts

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #80 on: April 25, 2005, 03:19:43 AM »
But why... Is he really trying to commit suicide indirectly? Since he knew there is very slim chance of winning him, why dont he try persuading Guts band to let her go?

One thing for sure... The duel is for the sake of their loved one... One for his half sister, one for his girlfriend... (I am assuming that the reason Guts wants Farnese back is to take care of Casca)



Seriously is quite sad for their relationship to turn this way... Guts and Serp have been good allies... Guts even try to help Serpico (but was block by the Ogre) when he faced the Kelpie back in volume 25

i think the biggest reason why he would challenge guts, is that he want guts to be able to control him self. that is, able to fight while stay in his human form; on volume 28 when guts turned in to berserk mode, serpico's face indicated that he must do something to control guts's transformation.


i predict that in the end of this dual, guts will be able to control his transformation toward berserk mode. reason for that is, again this is a wild guess; that during the dual between guts and serpico, guts end up beating serpico's ass so bad that he almost kill him, but just before he finished serpico's puny ass up, he realize that serpico was trying to help him controlling his temper, and guts stop just before he cut down serpico's head.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2005, 03:22:32 AM by guts »

Offline dwarfkicker

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2005, 03:34:11 AM »
I don't think it will be that easy for him to control the beast that has been growing within him since his childhood.

I also think that there might be more to the duel than meets the eye.  Some unseen reason.

Offline TheSkyTraveller

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2005, 03:58:49 AM »
I also think that there might be more to the duel than meets the eye. Some unseen reason.

I dunno, I still agree more with what Walter said. It doesn't seem that out of the blue to me.  And I don't think Serpico ever really tried to disguise the way he felt about Guts. 
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2005, 04:32:08 AM »
Yeah, they've really never liked each other. They disliked and underestimated each other to begin with, and while they may appreciate the skills of one another now, I still don't think there's much mutual respect. More frustrating for both is that neither has really been able to definitivly get the best of the other (i.e. kill him), and I think trying to kill each other is the only activity they enjoy sharing.

Ever know someone like that in your life? =)

Offline rubbereruben

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2005, 09:45:12 AM »
Finally we see some action! Damn, this is really exciting me... Guts vs. Serpico! The battle we all want to see and have debated about!

Can't wait to see what happens next episode... XD
« Last Edit: April 25, 2005, 10:36:53 AM by Aazealh »

Offline Freddy C

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2005, 01:11:51 PM »
It just dawned on me.  One more chapter to go and vol 29 will be complete.  I'm willing to bet it's sooooo gonna end on a cliffhanger leaving the reader wanting more.


I'm getting ahead of myself.  I forgot for sec that we also have the individual chapters.  Miura won't leave us hanging for long.

If so then the fight will last a a while still. Or finish before it start.

I personally think, like many that this fight will not conclude just yet. And the pillars really represent the city - they are coming down.If there had to be a winner, I'd have to be Guts, which will mean a suprise defeat for Serpico. He may go crazy too for a while like Griffith lol.

This has been one of the best chapters I have seen in a while.



Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #86 on: April 25, 2005, 01:59:56 PM »
I agree with walter on this one...

I don't think Serpico is out for victory, I believe his intention is to delay Guts somehow.  I think his exact reasons for that are still somewhat clouded, even though the general idea is that he beleives it to be in Farnese's best interests.
Either way, I beleive the Kushan invasion will interrupt the fight.
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Offline Headless Death

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #87 on: April 26, 2005, 12:24:23 AM »
One thing that has been making me wonder was what the Kushan cats(or dogs) were really after, they passed the group without attacking like is has a goal location that it must reach.  Since the ball seems to be bringing about the nobility and wealthiest of the territory, it would seem likely that they were going after that.  Although, it may be a specific person or group it is after.
Maybe the attack is on the fleet leaders, generals and leaders of different forces, so that when more of the Kushan arrive that the organization of the troops is nothing to worry about. 

As far as the start of the fight between Serpico and Guts is concerned, I would assume an interuption, with how close the Kushan are.  The Cats may attack at any moment.

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #88 on: April 26, 2005, 02:13:57 AM »
One thing that has been making me wonder was what the Kushan cats(or dogs) were really after, they passed the group without attacking like is has a goal location that it must reach.  Since the ball seems to be bringing about the nobility and wealthiest of the territory, it would seem likely that they were going after that.  Although, it may be a specific person or group it is after.
Maybe the attack is on the fleet leaders, generals and leaders of different forces, so that when more of the Kushan arrive that the organization of the troops is nothing to worry about. 

I would surmise they're taking out all the guards or would be resistance for the invasion as quickly as possible
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Offline Rickert

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #89 on: April 26, 2005, 10:17:44 AM »
Serpico awaits the group between some rows of pillars. He knew they'd be there thanks to Schierke's hair, and he opposes Guts, planning to use the pillars to his disadvantage (with the DS). Only that's apparently not exactly efficient. The Kushan attack has also started, the mist spreads. 8)

PS: The four guards die. ;D

(no offence Aazealh, but isn't it some kind of spoiler telling this when somebody still has to read from the beginning of the chapter? (if this is a dumb post y/k what to do..)

About the chapter; exciting, finally some really interesting fight (it's been a while), and the last pic had some sick composition over it. I think I'm gonna draw some of that together and make my own composition...

If I do expect it sooner or later on the creation section...

nice eps!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2005, 10:20:32 AM by Rickert »

Offline Un_Colombiano

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #90 on: April 26, 2005, 11:20:03 AM »
damn i love how it gets cut off right at the best part! looks like we gotta wait another month...

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #91 on: April 26, 2005, 11:47:30 AM »
(no offence Aazealh, but isn't it some kind of spoiler telling this when somebody still has to read from the beginning of the chapter? (if this is a dumb post y/k what to do..)

I don't see how the notion of spoiler is supposed to apply here, as the thread's sole purpose is discuss the episode. If you don't want to read the short summary then don't, it's as simple as that, but having a rough description of what happens allows people who can't see the episode for one reason or another to be able to follow the discussion.

Offline Rickert

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #92 on: April 26, 2005, 12:34:16 PM »
Ah, you're right. sorry for that man...


P.S: I shouldn't **** with guts if I was Serpico  :P(btw; I think they get heared by the guards and get interrupted, or maybe the monster cancels this phat fight althoug it may just ruin the ball)...one thing I'm quite sure of; this is gonna be an interesting fight!

or whatever...next!
 ::) :'(

Offline Trashcan

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #93 on: April 27, 2005, 01:10:29 AM »
My speculation for Ep. 256;

The 'Episode 256' thread will have a page count of eleven or more! :o
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Offline Serpico

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #94 on: April 29, 2005, 10:20:46 AM »
Serpico's motives are the same as always, Farnese. He said to Guts before quite simply he would stop the journey if he could, its a danger to her. Her life and currently ties to her family as well are at risk. Of course Serpico will not miss this chance to end things, but I believe he only intends to turn them back. He doesnt hate Guts and the others, he even left Farnese's side to help Guts and ended up almost losing her, which I think is the part he hates.

I think as well he has no intention of dying, or especially provoking Guts Berserk state. The whole castle could fall if he is unleashed. Serpico is a superior or equal duelist to "mortal" Griffith, so vs. Guts with the pillars and possibly more in his sleeve he has fair odds as he probably factored in Guts will hold back.

If Kushan attack, Serpico will run for Farnese immediatly, so end of duel. That seems likely to me after they exchange a few blows. Personally I think Serpico's intention was to land a non mortal blow on Guts to let them know he is serious so they will leave.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #95 on: April 29, 2005, 12:00:24 PM »
"I was thinking I'd like to kill you."

Anyway, I think Serpico is realistic enough to know that Guts isn't the type of guy you just wound and he limps off. Griffith came to the same conclusion just before their final duel. Oh, and I think Serpico does hate Guts too, and it's mutual.

Also, I wouldn't say Serpico wasn't helping Guts either; he was helping them survive the encounter. That's what makes Serpico so interesting character; he's the ultimate situational pragmatist, save for his Farnese worship. And he even handles that in ultimate pragmatist fashion (thus, his trying to eliminate Guts behind Farnese's back when it's seemingly convenient).
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 12:08:09 PM by "Griffith No More!" »

Offline QuestionMark

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #96 on: April 29, 2005, 05:54:19 PM »
Oh, and I think Serpico does hate Guts too, and it's mutual.

I guess this is the part I've never really been convinced of.  Obviously Serpico feels Guts is a danger to the status quo, and for that would not like him around.  And I think it's true that Serpico doesn't like the direction Farnese is moving into necessarily-- both in regards to her personal growth and the danger she keeps getting into.  But I've never really understood this whole "hate" thing with Serpico.  It just doesn't seem real to me.  Yes, they dueled on the cliff, but at the time Guts was simply a stranger that they were trying to catch.  Serpico was just doing his duty.  Later, Serpico let's Guts know that the duel is "unfinished", but I felt this came more out of .... jealousy or some such thing on Serpico's part. 

Basically, the sort of motivation he would need to "hate" Guts and actually want to kill him seems odd to me, not in line with his character.  Yes, he's a pragmatist that does whatever he needs to do, in order to get what he wants (reminds me of Griffith, in that respect)-- but I guess if he was going to go out of his way to try and kill Guts, it would seem to be driven more from either 1) desperation (he feels he has no options left to stop Farnese from going with Guts), or 2) a simple cold-blooded weighing of percentages, i.e. that it would be better to try to kill Guts now than to let things progress more.

I've just never been convinced of the whole "Serpico hates Guts and Guts hates him too" thing.  And why should Guts hate Serpico anyways?  Not like his haughty attitude much? (say, like Corkus)-- sure.  But hate him, and want to kill him?  That hasn't really made sense to me.  It always seemed to me that Guts just sort of went along with Serpico's desire to continue the duel, both before and this time too.  Guts isn't the sort of person to stop someone from achieving what they want, to walk their own path.  So, if Serpico wants to fight, he agrees, and goes ahead with it.  I've never really read any "anger" or "hate" in his expression during these moments. More of a simple acceptance of the situation.  I always thought of it more as a sort of simple "detante" between them, where they agree to be allies, even though they don't particularly care for each other much.

I'm not saying I'm right, it's just an opinion.  So perhaps I've been misreading this aspect of Berserk.  But it'd be great if someone could put forward some evidence about their relationship, and the hate they feel for each other, so I can see where my mistakes were.

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #97 on: April 29, 2005, 06:58:39 PM »
Firstly, perhaps we should move this to the Character cove?

Obviously Serpico feels Guts is a danger to the status quo, and for that would not like him around.

Actually, I don't think has too much respect/regard for the status quo, unless you mean that as another way of saying Farnese's safety... rather than the overall state of things.

  And I think it's true that Serpico doesn't like the direction Farnese is moving into necessarily-- both in regards to her personal growth and the danger she keeps getting into.

Personal danger, no.  Personal growth, however, he has acknowledged and is pleased with.  In fact, he attributes that growth to Guts.


I've just never been convinced of the whole "Serpico hates Guts and Guts hates him too" thing.  And why should Guts hate Serpico anyways?

I agree in that Guts doesn't hate Serpico.  We've seen Guts when he hates someone... hard to miss those occasions.  Actually, I don't think it would be hard to say that Guts respects Serpico as a tactician.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 07:13:31 PM by CnC »
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 255
« Reply #98 on: April 29, 2005, 07:03:08 PM »
Yes, they dueled on the cliff, but at the time Guts was simply a stranger that they were trying to catch. Serpico was just doing his duty.

No, it was totally personal, actually. That's probably you're biggest oversight, and I don't want to nitpick on your post, cause I like it. I'll just say there's a lot more to Guts and Serpico than meets the eye on a first or even subsequent casual read. And while hate is a strong word, look at all their scenes again and really just focus on everything that goes on between them, there's lots of subtle levels there, actually. When I say hate, I really do think they grate on each other; and they're killers so... =)

Anyway, it's totally refreshed Serpico's character for me.

Firstly, perhaps we should move this to the Character cove?

Nah, this is currently relevent afterall. Why file it away?

Actually, I don't think has too much respect/regard for the status quo, unless you mean that as another way of saying Farnese's safety... rather than the overall state of things.

Not just her safety, but their relationship; Farnese is changing, Serpico isn't. Following Guts, she's becoming independent; she doesn't need Serpico anymore, and I think he needs to be needed.

Personal danger, no. Personal growth, however, he has acknowledged and is pleased with. In fact, he attributes that growth to Guts.

Totally backward I think, while he certainly attributes the growth to Guts, he's not very cheery about it; not at all.

I agree in that Guts doesn't hate Serpico. We've seen Guts when he hates someone... hard to miss those occasions. Actually, I don't think it would be hard to say that Guts respects Serpico as a tactician.

While they're well aware of the skills of the others, I still don't see much respect between them, and even if they do respect each other's prowess, they still aren't crazy about each other personally. Guts and Serpico sure weren't respecting each other in 255.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 07:49:57 PM by "Griffith No More!" »

Offline QuestionMark

Re: Episode 255
« Reply #99 on: April 29, 2005, 07:51:23 PM »
Actually, I don't think has too much respect/regard for the status quo, unless you mean that as another way of saying Farnese's safety... rather than the overall state of things.

I was referring to the "status quo" between Serpico and Farnese-- as in, the state of their relationship with each other, and that Serpico doesn't want that to change.

Quote
Personal danger, no.  Personal growth, however, he has acknowledged and is pleased with.  In fact, he attributes that growth to Guts.

I'll just refer to my post at the top of this page, which I think goes into more detail about where I think Serpico is coming from in regards to his relationship with Farnese (just my own take on it of course), and why I think he's more conflicted than that.

Quote from: Griffith
No, it was totally personal, actually. That's probably you're biggest oversight

I took your advice and just reread the first time he and Guts duel, on the cliff, and really, I didn't see any "hate" there.  Serpico thinks that, ""You are painful to her.  You should dissapear." and then at the end he thinks, "I shouldn't challenge him.  Why did I just do that?"  You're right in that it's more personal than just charing a guy at random, but they have no real relationship at that point-- it seems odd to say that he hates him at that point.  But you know, I'm probably just splitting hairs.  They don't get along, that's for sure.  And now they're dueling.

And yeah, perhaps the conversation should move to character cove, but then, we're not going to have another episode for a while, and this does relate to this episodes activities.  I figure the mods will move it if they think it should be moved.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 08:01:11 PM by QuestionMark »