Episode 255
- Thread starter Aazealh
- Start date
D
darkbane
Guest
Well, Griffith, I think it's pretty obvious, as you said, that Guts and co are suspicious of what's about to happen, but probably not to the point of having to warn Serpico about it. Well, Guts wouldn't, as I go on to defend below, although Shierke ought to (maybe she will, during the fight).
Shierke may be smart etc etc but as I think I've stated before in another thread somewhere, she's still just a kid and possibly can't see all connections. Also her perspective as a magic user influenced her way of thinking from early on, as one may recall from the episode between her and her mentor regarding Guts' struggle. Still I hope that right now she's just shocked that Serpico wants to fight Guts, since their "enmity" may not be so obvious to her as it is to us, and that she will try to interfere before the mist does ^_^.
That would be like he didn't want to fight, but he does wish for a conclusion (probably even under these circumstances ^_^;) plus I think that kind of challenge excites him, since Serpico, due to his keen mind and quick reflexes, is one of the few humans remaining who can put up any kind of fight against Guts (meaning that he is above the level of the average group of elite Kushan assassins who get sliced by Guts by the dozen)."Griffith No More!" said:
Shierke may be smart etc etc but as I think I've stated before in another thread somewhere, she's still just a kid and possibly can't see all connections. Also her perspective as a magic user influenced her way of thinking from early on, as one may recall from the episode between her and her mentor regarding Guts' struggle. Still I hope that right now she's just shocked that Serpico wants to fight Guts, since their "enmity" may not be so obvious to her as it is to us, and that she will try to interfere before the mist does ^_^.
Vampire_Hunter_Bob
Cats are great
"Griffith No More!" said:
Wow! You still remember.
Vaxillus
The one and only severed head
Though the fight will likely be interupted, I don't think it was Guts' plan. Not saying he couldn't make the connection, but since he doesn't seem particularly attatched to Serpico (they've both been knowing this fight would likely come), he probably isn't bothering to think in that far. Guts and co. are in a hurry (sorta), and I doubt Guts would have time to propperly calculate a plan. He's probably just relying on his sheer strength and quick reflexes.
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
DefaultJ!! said:more like an accordian on a burning rock(or whatever it is you get to play when you go to hell)
I'm not really thinking Guts would be seeing Serpico as 'just another enemy' now... I think that when Guts tells the others, "He must have thought this through, Don't move till we're done," hes assuming that Serpico wouldn't be turning around from his previous 'lets be friends' stance back to 'lets have a duel to the death' without some good reason. Probably has something to do with the Farnese situation.
There was never any "lets be friends" stance; that's just a common misconception among Berserk readers. But yes, it has everything to do with Farnese.
darkbane said:
I'm glad we agree.
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
I'm reminded every time I post. ;D
But seriously, Schierke needs to straighten out her priorities. I'm starting to think she's stupid yet well-educated. =)
Vaxillus said:
I doubt it's any sort of intentional plan either, but you can bet if Serpico is distracted, Guts will seize the opportunity. It's simply to Guts' advantage (unless the werecat bites him on the ass).
D
darkbane
Guest
Priority number 1 should be marrying Guts >_<"Griffith No More!" said:
Priority number 2 would probably be avenging her master?
Priority number 3: "I'm a magic user. Only I can do it. It is my responsibility." Oh, the proud look of duty in those eyes ^_^
But you can be sure that he will not actually maim, or kill Serpico. Probably won't even hurt him too much, since he's becoming more considerate of his new companions. If it wasn't for the Beast, I'd almost say Guts is close to being domesticated *grin* just kidding of course."Griffith No More!" said:
Rhombaad said:
Well, I think that's an interesting question. Guts is in such a state that he might not survive another all-out Beast fury, and even if he managed not to hurt himself too badly (because that's basically what the Beast does...), who would bring him back to reality? Last time, Schierke couldn't reach him because of the sea, and they're supposed to board a ship... Moreover, we know that Ganishka's mist is "magic", so what would Guts see while using the armor? And then there's the fact that if there's no enemy nearby, he'll attack his friends.
I don't think Guts will let it out against Serpico, but if familiars and Kushan warriors start swarming the streets, he might have trouble getting out while controlling himself. That's even more of a problem since the Kushan fleet could easily sink their hypothetic ship if they were found out, and the Beast isn't really discreet (and they'd better be stealthy if they want to avoid trouble). Otherwise, there's always the possibility of a grand escape with Guts barely making it and ending in a comatose state.
If the fog comes in, serpico should instantly know its kushan, and abort the fight to protect Farnese (which he knows is an actual physical threat, as opposed to Guts' emotional and psychological threat). Serpcio would remember the Kushan beast-controllers from volume 28, so he should recognize the looming threat approaching (if the fog reaches them, of course).
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
xechnao said:
As opposed to the perfect harmony they're currently experiencing? =)
Anyway, their whole association is by crisis, it would make great ink. I think what's more important to the health of the family is if Serpico's going to adjust his attitude or not, otherwise, he is the only real crisis for this crew.
If he's going to continue trying to kill Guts, I don't think the big fella is going to care that the fishing trip with the Eskimos of Elfhelm will be ruined without uncle Serp around to bait Farnese's hook.
Vaxillus
The one and only severed head
That might make for some interesting plot developement. Maybe Gut's company will have to survive a pirate attack on the way to Elfhelm without his help. Or maybe once they get there, Elfhelm will be attacked, and Guts will have a grand re-entry where he saves his allies at the last possible second. Only speculation, but might make for a cool story developement, or at least a decent fanfic.Aazealh said:
"Griffith No More!" said:
They are still much, much better in respect to what would happen if Guts killed Serpico. Besides I am pretty convinced that Serpicko's intentions aren't fatal either.
Besides, I bet that Guts won't be killing Serpico even if he has the chance to do so. So, would you bet on the opposite?
SaiyajinNoOuji
I'm still better than you
I think that is when we would see the Shrieke intervention. ;DRhombaad said:
I don't think he will kill Serpico, based on the fact that he never really wanted to kill Corkus. Let me expand on this thought a tad, you might agree, or not. Corkus was nothing but an ass to Guts from the beginning. He never gave Guts a chance. He also never really was a threat to Guts. Serpico has always been an ass, just kept more to himself. He does offer somewhat of a threat to Guts, which is why I think Guts might actually enjoy fighting him. I am not comparing Corkus and Serpico on their actual character or what they mean to Guts, that is actually different. They just have the same aura. They are both self-centered assholes. Serpico however, like I said, poses a threat to Guts. I think Guts right now sees him as a battle challenge. However, if he sees past that, and no matter how it happens, see Serpico as a threat to Casca, Serpico is doomed. I think it would be an excellent idea for Corkus Jr. to know his role and step down, before it gets bad for him, Farnese, or the whole band. Just my opinions. Any thoughts on this are appreciated because I could have overlooked something. :)
- C
- C
Vaxillus
The one and only severed head
I still think that Guts would kill Serpico if it was necessary. I think that neither really wants to kill the other, but I think if it came right down to it, both would be willing to go to any measure to win. It certainly seems apparent to me that if Serpico's only oportunity to win was a fatal strike, he would most definately take it. I don't think they're in any way playfighting.
"Griffith No More!" said:
Tigers at duel. You know males duel for the female.
Better than that, Serpico just wants to protect Farnese to live by her way and he doesn't want kill Guts. Not only Farnese wouldn't want this but Serpico can also have feelings regarding his ex or not ex mates. It's only a duel based on the roles of each other (like in politics for example). If Serpico wanted to kill Guts he could have set him a trap. Instead he takes on the responsibility to give himself to give himself along with his sword and fencing skills Farnese a chance in her new environment
It's just Serpico duelling much like what happened when Serpico fenced with a Noble when Farnese asked him, in the flashback we have seen.
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
xechnao said:
...
No.
No, not at all, actually. I'm citing volumes 14-29 as my proof. ;D
Seriously though, Serpico's motives aren't so saintly and simple. That's all that neat & clean bullshit people thrust on poor Miura (which always boils down to, "but Serpico are both on the good side now? ???" yeah, just like Goku and Piccolo) when he tries to do anything interesting beyond someone's face getting sliced in half. Blah.
Anyway, I'm sick of it, and I'm not even saying your particular take on it is wrong, but incomplete and inaccurate; it's a small part of something A LOT more complicated between the two of them. And while I don't believe Serpico is going to die or anything that dramatic, until I see it, I'm still not going to fool myself into the easygoing Berserk the buddy movie point of view. Is the tension really invisible to everyone but me? Hell, Guts was willing to kill this guy while Farnese was preparing dinner for them, and Serpico obviously feels differently with lines like:
"I was thinking I would like to kill you."
No, he surely doesn't want to kill him! UGH!
"Griffith No More!" said:
You don't get it, perhaps you can't or you just don't want for whatever reason, don't know why. Let me make a final try to set a basis on this discussion:
Like I implied before, if a guy wants to really kill somebody in a script he just does so. Sets a fatal trap, shoots him or whatever. He doesn't present himself in front of the other guy and claims. Making offensive claims is part of a duel thing. Serpico has been traveling with Guts for some time. He isn't fatal towards Guts. Guts when he wanted to kill Donovan or king's brother he just shot them without warning -or even Griffith on the hill of swords. Serpico's case is different you see. He just duels on Guts to give Farnese some time.
I gave you some examples. Now, if you still disagree point out where exactly.
So, if Serpico REALLY had fatal intentions for Guts, he would have killed him at the campfire, right? Well, ok. I'll buy it for now. Let's fast-forward that possibility. And after the fight, Guts lays skewered on the ground, Farnese arrives.xechnao said:
: "Serpico!? What happened?!" 8) : "Uhh, He had a heart attack! Come on, babe. Let's ride!"
And they both take off on his motorcycle after the pep rally. No. Killing Guts wasn't an option until now. For the first time since Millennium Falcon began, Farnese is physically and emotionally detached from the Band. This is Serpico's first opportunity to kill Guts and still maintain his relationship with Farnese. I believe Serpico understands how much Farnese is attached to the big guy. It was too risky for Serpico to even attempt to kill Guts before. If Farnese had found out Serpico was the assassin of her newfound hero, it would shatter their bond.
Does Serpico really expect that the duel will last LONG into the night, when all the nobles have left? And if so, does he really expect to WIN? Somehow I doubt it.
However Xech, I think I get your point. You think that even now, Serpico will stand down at some point in the duel, acknowledging his defeat, but still wanting to live. And hopping away, he'll say "My only pair of shoes, too!" I disagree. This duel has finality (and fatality ;D ) to it. I'm not adamant that Serpico will die, since there are so many variables with the Kushan invasion looming... but it's pretty obvious Serpico isn't just fucking around this time. This fight is for all the marbles.
PS: His eyes are open, for chrissake.
Walter said:
Yes, I agree and actually this is something I also said myself.
Walter said:
So, why would Serpico want to kill Guts again? Never did I realise in the manga that Serpico's primal cause was to see Guts die. I realised that he wanted to protect Farnese, and he threatened Guts to pay attention on her but I don't see a primal motive for Serpico to just kill Guts.
Walter said:
Why does the duel have to last that long? I doupt this would be the night that normally Roderick would spent with her
Walter said:
I disagree.
Walter said:
You have argued that Serpico hasn't a chance of winning and he knows it and then you add that he isn't fucking around. I think your basis argumentation net seems to be a bit confused at this point.
Walter said:
Yes, he is obviously in difficulty like a good sportsman competing against an equal or even better athlete. This isn't hatred, it's just some serious focalization.
My basis argumentation net isn't tangled at all. 8) Serpico knows how strong Guts has become. Even knowing Guts is superior, Serpico can't just stand idly by while Guts ruins Farnese life. I thought we were beyond this point by now. I've said this in the 255 thread...
As for why the Ball has to last this long, you're the one arguing he's "buying time". Am I mis-reading this? To me, buying time means to stall someone, so someone else or such event may occur elsewhere. Hence, my inference that you think the Ball will be a short enough event for Farnese to make an exit.
PS: Read my previous post again, it's re-edited. You're too quick.
As for why the Ball has to last this long, you're the one arguing he's "buying time". Am I mis-reading this? To me, buying time means to stall someone, so someone else or such event may occur elsewhere. Hence, my inference that you think the Ball will be a short enough event for Farnese to make an exit.
PS: Read my previous post again, it's re-edited. You're too quick.