Author Topic: Beast  (Read 4303 times)

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Offline puella

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Beast
« on: January 26, 2002, 01:19:00 AM »
I think 'beast' is one of important characters.
At first, I didn't think of beast much.
but day by day, I come to wonder why Miura shows us beast so often?
what is beast exactly?
As far as I know, it is Guts' inner self which exposes Guts' evil nature. It always lurks in Guts and when Guts goes weak, it makes him possessed.
but you think" is that all"?
I mean "are there any possibilities that beast plays a good role in Guts' fighting in the future?"
This may sound ridiculous but a certain idea comes to my mind sometimes.
Will Guts get to use evil strength of his own when he fights or not?

 ::) ::) ::)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline *Gyom*

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Re: beast
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2002, 02:07:59 AM »
since Guts is back with the 195, i hope his inner conflict will progress. i think that's the way of things till they arrive to elfhelm : indeed, what ould do Isidro, Puck? Perhaps the relationship with Farnese will go on richly, but i don't think that could be the key of the Guts's part
The whole thing is Guts, and in Gut thete is an evil Beast who become stronger and stronger, a big event must take place ( i can't imagine what it could be, but i think Miura will make us an astonishing scene )
In fact, i cannot answer you about Guts's using of his Beast, we got to know how Guts reacts about it
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Griffith

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Re: beast
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2002, 04:56:31 AM »
Guts has been using the Beast; to beat monsters like Apostles, he had to be worse than they were, thatís the Beast. †The problem is that itís gotten to the point where the Beast is now using him, so to speak. †How long can you act like a monster before it becomes natural?

It kind of reminds me of I Am Legend, in a backwards sort of way.

-Griffith

Offline roberto999

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Re: beast
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2002, 11:44:47 AM »
Quote
I think 'beast' is one of important characters.
At first, I didn't think of beast much.
but day by day, I come to wonder why Miura shows us beast so often?
what is beast exactly?
As far as I know, it is Guts' inner self which exposes Guts' evil nature. It always lurks in Guts and when Guts goes weak, it makes him possessed.
but you think" is that all"?
I mean "are there any possibilities that beast plays a good role in Guts' fighting in the future?"
This may sound ridiculous but a certain idea comes to my mind sometimes.
Will Guts get to use evil strength of his own when he fights or not?

::) ::) ::)
I dont think that the beast really exists as a indipendent being nor that Guts is really possessed by it like in "possessed by the devil" on the contrary it is something that he let loose and it is something that dwells in any of us.Immagine that you are so angry for one of my post that you want to kill me.Instead of killing me you send me a angry e-mail. That is because your "beast" is very weak and you are a good person so it can only compel you to send angry e-mails. In Guts this beast is a thousand time stronger than in you or me so it could easily force him to kill if he is unable to stop it by force of his will. The fact that the beast is manifesting †itself more often means that Guts is slowly losing the controll of himself. And that is not a good thing, it could more easily get him killed than "helping" him. We will see.
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Re: beast
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2002, 02:43:21 PM »
People keep talking about the beast as if its an entity seperate from guts. Its just one part of him, his "evil side" so to speak. I dont agree with grffith when he says that the beast is now using guts just as guts used the beast. The beast is guts. When guts was fighting monsters he was the beast, and when he almost raped casca he was also the beast.

But this is just my opinion and I could be totally wrong.  ;)

In conclusion, Guts = Beast = Guts = Beast = Guts

;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Griffith

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Re: beast
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2002, 05:17:47 PM »
Actually, we donít necessarily disagree, I wasnít being at all literal before.

Guts and the beast arenít separate beings, I think thatís a given (otherwise, there isn't much point to the Beast at all), but what makes the Beast so interesting (and hard to classify) is that it is largely presented as itís own separate entity. As though it and Guts have a symbiotic relationship; I think this is great because it gives Guts inner struggle a face it never had before, you understand what heís been going through on the inside this whole time. I donít think Guts was supposed to be anymore ďpossessedĒ by the Beast in 190 (despite the cool Guts/Beast drawings) than he is when he fights Apostles, the reason it was illustrated so dramatically is exactly because he wasn't fighting Apostles, he was interacting with Casca.  The point is, Guts isnít just indulging in his hate on the battlefield and then putting it away, itís becoming a factor in all aspects of his life, totally consuming him until thatís who he is.

-Griffith

P.S.
Quote
The Beast is to Guts what Femto is to Griffith (as stressed in volume 16); a manifestation of the evil that dwells within him.

Just thought I might as well put this here too since it relates to the Beast, with this as well...




I definitely think a discussion is in order on how Guts and the Beast relate to Griffith, Femto, Apostles and God Hand in general.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline roberto999

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Re: beast
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2002, 05:33:56 PM »
The second panel shows us the bejelit. If I well remember Guts was succumbing.He was later saved by puk. I suspect that then, even if Miura tell us nothing, but he shows us the bejelit, that Guts had a strong temptation to use it. And perhaps that is something that he will do, if he weakens more and the beast grows stronger. Otherwise why he continues to carry the bejelit if for him has no use?
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Offline Walter

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Re: beast
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2002, 05:52:17 PM »
Quote
The second panel shows us the bejelit. If I well remember Guts was succumbing.He was later saved by puk. I suspect that then, even if Miura tell us nothing, but he shows us the bejelit, that Guts had a strong temptation to use it.

No, read the dialogue. The beast is talking to Guts then. It says that if you continue down this path you will become like your friend. Its the beast that notices the Beherit.
Quote

And perhaps that is something that he will do, if he weakens more and the beast grows stronger. Otherwise why he continues to carry the bejelit if for him has no use?

I dont see it happening, but I wont disclude it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline roberto999

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Re: beast
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2002, 05:59:24 PM »
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. Its the beast that notices the Beherit.

hence Guts, since the two are one and the same
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Walter

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Re: beast
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2002, 08:39:38 PM »
No, at this moment, the ghosts are taking the form of the Beast, which resides in Guts mind. The ghosts are talking, THROUGH the beasts image.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline puella

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Re: beast
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2002, 09:13:58 PM »
Quote
Actually, we donít necessarily disagree, I wasnít being at all literal before.
I definitely think a discussion is in order on how Guts and the Beast relate to Griffith, Femto, Apostles and God Hand in general.

good suggestion.

Griffith and †Apostles may be defined those who succumbed to their evil nature. I think this shows their weak point.
Griffith at his worst chose to be Femto as you see. but ironically, unless Guts saved Griffith from a dungeon, Griffith couldn't be Godhand. their fates are mixed up in many ways and had been destined to be like that even before they met.

Guts is desperately struggling not to succumb to his evil nature. I think this shows his strong point as long as he won't surrender.and I'm sure Guts will overcome his evil and weak nature at the end. this is quite different from Griffith's case.

Godhand is supreme power of evil spirit.
Their existence invites people to get evil power as you all know or vice versa.
In this point, Godhand can be said "the beast"(like Guts') of †all people. and they show up when those who have excessive desire and be willing to get evil power call them.

Offline roberto999

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Re: beast
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2002, 01:53:16 PM »
Quote

good suggestion.

.


In this point, Godhand can be said "the beast"(like Guts') of †all people. and they show up when those who have excessive desire and be willing to get evil power call them.
Yes but they responded also at Roshinu that was nor really evil, only desperate, also the bejelit apostole was not a real evil creature, he was that way only because of his life how a total outcast. So it seems to me that it was the God hand to take advantage on them (and in the process corrupting them completely)
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Offline Kenoh-Sama

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Re: beast
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2002, 10:38:16 AM »
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Yes but they responded also at Roshinu that was nor really evil, only desperate, also the bejelit apostole was not a real evil creature, he was that way only because of his life how a total outcast. So it seems to me that it was the God hand to take advantage on them (and in the process corrupting them completely)


Yep. Godhand takes advantage of people's "moment of weakness".

Void- He was an imprisoned priest before GH arrived

Griffith- Was tortured beyond belief before GH arrived

Beherit Apostle- Was this deformed outcast

The Count- Was Betrayed by his wife before GH showed

Roshinu- She was this abused girl before GH happened

Godhand offers you salvation at your worst. They offer you "enlightenment" and power beyond understanding. Any form of resistance and GH persuades & manipulates.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline puella

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Re: beast
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2002, 12:58:50 PM »
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Void- He was an imprisoned priest before GH arrived


Oh, I don't know that. Is it in the manga?  ::)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Kenoh-Sama

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Re: beast
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2002, 01:15:44 PM »
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Oh, I don't know that. Is it in the manga? †::)


It's the theorized version of what happend to Gaiseric (presumably Skull Knight) and Void.  It's not comfirmed but a good possibility.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
Why is it so hard to be a good guy?

Offline Walter

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Re: beast
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2002, 01:50:00 PM »
Its in volume 18, Mozgus talking to Farnese.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline puella

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Re: beast
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2002, 05:08:35 AM »
when Puck gets possessed

         


........
I need his bloody needle
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Kenoh-Sama

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Re: beast
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2002, 07:18:06 AM »
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when Puck gets possessed

† † † † †


........
I need his bloody needle


Lookit me I'm a rabid farie...

Now GIVE ME SOME CANDY!!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
Why is it so hard to be a good guy?

Offline puella

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Re: beast
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2002, 05:42:43 PM »
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Now GIVE ME SOME CANDY!!!!

O.K. My dear Puck, here's your chocolate candy.
eat all by yourself! Try not to be taken by Guts!




Offline crazyCelt

Re: beast
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2002, 05:53:10 PM »
Hehe. You must not get SNL in Korea, Puella.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline ARHicks00

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Re: beast
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2002, 03:52:36 PM »
The beast and Guts are one. Guts is suffering from a personality disorder. Guts has been pushed around a lot so his pysche developed a personality/mental defense in dealing with stressful situations. The beast is very much like Wolverine's from X-Men, but slightly different. Both are based on rage, both come out during stressful moment, but Wolverine is based partly on his animal nature while Guts only serves as a defense mechanism.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »