Author Topic: A Zodd theory  (Read 9931 times)

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Online Walter

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A Zodd theory
« on: August 09, 2001, 07:41:27 PM »
Zodd is a very strange case of an apostle. We know that he IS an apostle, for he makes Guts brand react and Wild refers to himself and Zodd as the same kind of creature. However, why does Zodd resemble nothing even close to regular apostles? Perhaps this relates to that new theory that Apostles forms are influenced by their dreams. Zodds intentions are rather noble in comparison to the other apostles, who mainly live for sex and general rampaging.

Zodd seemingly, lives to find the "Ultimate Strong One". Which leads us to believe that he concieved a vision of this strong one loooong ago. He has been searching for 300 years, what does that mean? I think it means that something happened before the last eclipse (216+ years ago) that made him begin searching; an omen of the strong one, if you will. Or that he was born only 300 years ago and searches for someone that can go toe to toe with him, because the others on this planet bore him.

The above can easily be refuted with Zodd's current intentions, of serving Griffith. While we dont know specifically what they are, he is obviously on some sort of leash. Either he fears Griffs power (doubtful) or he knows what Griff is to become, if he is indeed the Ultimate Strong One, and he is protecting him for his future role as the strong one.

I realize that I have basically just re-stated common knowledge, but I believe we now have enough evidence to make a decent theory on the above subject. Agree? Disagree?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Ger24

Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2001, 09:36:06 PM »
I believe that Zodd only purpose for living is to seek the Ultimate Strong one and he believes that the Ultimate Strong One could either be Guts, Griffith, or SkullKnight. Although I don't think that he seeks simply someone that is stronger than him because SkullKnight allready is and if he was seeking someone that is stronger than him he would have allready found him.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Fishbomb

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2001, 12:11:21 AM »
Why is Zodd with Griffith?

Well... even if he does not believe Griffith to be the ultimate strong one (I think Zodd is not sure yet) Griffith would certainly be like a magnet to strong warriors. So, I don't think Griffith has Zodd on  leash, I just think that Zodd has joined him for the moment because it's pretty damn convenient.

And... I think that Zodd might have a suspicion that Guts mighe éventually become the ultimate strong one, but since he has not arrived there yet it is useless to challenge him. I think that Zodd sees Guts as a very interesting sprout, who one day might become a great tree. That's why he keeps testing him, challenging him, and helping him when the occasion strikes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Online Walter

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2001, 01:36:07 AM »

Quote

So, I don't think Griffith has Zodd on  leash, I just think that Zodd has joined him for the moment because it's pretty damn convenient.

Well, the leash does exist in the form of the chopping off of Zodd's horn by the Hawk in the Dream. Griff used a method of intimidation to get Zodd on his side, but thats not the real reason Zodd joined prolly. It was simply proof of Griffiths power.

Quote

but since he has not arrived there yet it is useless to challenge him.

??? They fought in chapter 181-182, and would have fought to the death had not Griffith called Zodd off.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Fishbomb

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2001, 02:02:44 AM »

Quote

They fought in chapter 181-182, and would have fought to the death had not Griffith called Zodd off.


You think so? I kind of figured it to be more like the other times when Guts and Zodd had fought... that he'd beat the crap out of Guts (albeit Guts was a damn harder match this time), then fly off laughing, witing for Guts to improve until next time.

But you could be right... and if you are...

Why did Griffith call Zodd off?

1. Because he thought this a waste of time and was in a hurry.
2. Because he was worried that Zodd might kill Guts, who he still harbours feelings for.
3. Because he was worried that Guts might kill Zodd, and deprive him of a useful servant/ally.

My guess is that Griffith convince himself of no 1, while secretly fearing no 2 and having a sneaking suspicion that no 3 might not be totally impossible...

Impossible and Guts just doesn't mix...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Online Walter

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2001, 02:12:10 AM »
Im convinced that Griffiths intervention in saving Casca, likely inspired by his flesh being the Demon Childs (obviously, Casca and Guts child) and Griffiths suprise at what he did were the real reason he called off the fight.

Note the "doku"'s we hear later on from Griffith, holding his heart (chapter 183 excerpt):

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Fishbomb

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2001, 02:40:12 AM »
I'm with you there... but I think that the motivation was not the demon child's flesh, but rather the fact that Griffith had feelings again for the first time in years. He reacted to save his friend, and afterwards he seemed shocked to realise that he was once again alive and had a heart to feel things with...

But his suprise and shock was probably what made him call of the fight...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Mage

Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2001, 08:50:04 AM »
Fishbomb's magnet idea made me think that Zodd might simply be around griffith to help him build the empire, just so he can see who will be strong enough to bring it down

by the way, where the hell is Skull Knight?  Last I saw of him he was riding his horse down a wall chasing that Apostle Beherit ..but then I don't have vol 21 right now, heh, don't know what goes on in there entirely...
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Offline The Perineum Falcon

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2001, 02:20:38 PM »
last SK was seen was at Griffith's rebirth.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
We often went to the cinema, the screen would light up and we would tremble, but also, increasingly often, Madeleine and I were disappointed. The images had dated, they jittered, and Marilyn Monroe had gotten terribly old. We were sad, this wasn't the film we had dreamed of, this wasn't the total film that we all carried around inside us, this film that we would have wanted to make, or, more secretly, no doubt, that we would have wanted to live.

Offline Cronus

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2001, 09:18:18 PM »
The way I see it, Zodd is simply around because he knows what his path is.  It seems he is rather simple-minded, as he feels his only objective in life is to find the Ultimate Strong One.  Since more than likely Griffith reborn *is* the USO, what purpose does he see now?  Where does he go from here?  Just doing as he's told?  Zodd's not so blind I think.  Who's to say he won't find himself on Guts' side when say Griffith does something he doesn't like?  Sure, everything has been already foretold by Causality, but only the Idea really knows all that...Griffith fought through his life to carve his own place in causality...who's to say Zodd won't eventually realize that just staying with Griffith is a waste of his time?  Just my bullshit theory...I just don't think Zodd will blindly follow Griffith forever, just a little feeling.  But then again, I'm not really the speculation king like many here...I just translate manga in spare time  ;D  
Speaking of which, I hope to have 184-185 done in the next few days...I have a need to party, first.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline DFInc

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2001, 10:20:10 PM »
I have a question.   While we are speculating about Zodd and the USO, we haven't aska  fundamental question.  What the heck is Zodd going to do with the Ultimate strong one?  I mean, he will probably fight him, since he does that to everyone, strong or not.  But that could be just to test that person to see if they are the Ultimate strong one.  Whether Zodd follows Griffin, side with Guts, or whatever, it all hinges on that particular bit of motive.  We need a theory what he want with the ultimate strong one first...I Just hope its not love ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Online Walter

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2001, 06:58:02 AM »
I believe this all has to do with why Zodd became an apostle in the first place. Which we dont have AAAANY room to speculate on. However, one could say that Zodd is not happy with the way things are. We know that he doesnt care anything for the slaughter of innocent people at the eclipse, as told in volume 13; and while he did kill like 300 people in volume 17 before the Hawk visited him, he seemed a little distressed (depressed?) over the whole incident.

I think Zodd is looking for a way out. The USO could be the way out. The USO could be the thign to destroy/nullify Idea. Also, I personally believe Guts to be the USO. If you havent read me and Griffs theory on this, perhaps we should make a new topic about it, to get it al under one collective post (its scattered around like 3-4 posts). But not until I get back in town, unless Griff wants to post it?

Agree? Disagree ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Cronus

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2001, 07:11:00 AM »
The USO might be a way out in the sense that it could actually kill Zodd.  Since he's found what he's been searching for, perhaps that is an option?  Unlikely, sure...but who knows?  Like you said, we really don't know the circumstances of Zodd becoming an apostle.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Griffith

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2001, 02:23:29 PM »
Quote

Also, I personally believe Guts to be the USO. If you havent read me and Griffs theory on this, perhaps we should make a new topic about it, to get it al under one collective post (its scattered around like 3-4 posts). But not until I get back in town, unless Griff wants to post it?

Agree? Disagree ?

I was think of putting it (Guts USO Theory) with the original strong one theory as well as some other ideas about why  Zodd may follow the strong one.  Sort of an “Ultimate Strong One: Special Edition Theory Collection”  ;D.  What do you think?

BTW everyone, if Zodd’s only interest in the strong one was to fight him, then he already has, and lost.  I just mention that because it’s suggested every once in a while.

Quote

The USO might be a way out in the sense that it could actually kill Zodd.  Since he's found what he's been searching for, perhaps that is an option?  Unlikely, sure...but who knows?  Like you said, we really don't know the circumstances of Zodd becoming an apostle.

I’ve though t a lot about this idea, where Zodd’s dream is to die a “legitimate” death (which is also a reason he might have become an Apostle ;)).  And I personally don’t think it’s that unlikely with what we know (or don’t know).  Sure, Skully could kill Zodd, but only if Zodd let him do it.  Zodd’s life is pretty boring, he doesn’t have to worry about much, I think he would want his death to be something he couldn’t help.  I mean, Zodd is someone who loves challenges, and he lives completely unchallenged, no fight for survival.  I think he wants to die fighting his hardest to live, struggling like Guts has too. I think that may be why he admires Guts so much. Guts is really out there, not just fighting for fun when he can, but fighting because it’s necessary for his survival, I think Zodd envies that. With this theory, you could interpret the Hawk of Light “killing” Zodd in his dream a sort of promise to deliver Zodd his eternal reward.  After Zodd helps Griffith get his dream will Griffith "help" Zodd get his?

I think that this is very likely, but I don’t believe it at this point, I think Zodd has other motives.  Walter said something thats got me thinking, what would happen to Zodd if Idea was destroyed?  I don’t think he’d cease to exist (even if the other Apostles did), and that's all I’m going to say.

-Griffith

Offline Ger24

Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2001, 02:37:15 PM »
I think Zodd is just looking for someone who can give him a challenge and ultamately kill him giving him what he is searching for and that is the proper warriors death. He would die happy fighting someone who is stronger than him.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline The Perineum Falcon

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2001, 04:24:28 PM »
Death is a release, and the USO is the only one that can give that to Zodd, and i think thats what he wants...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
We often went to the cinema, the screen would light up and we would tremble, but also, increasingly often, Madeleine and I were disappointed. The images had dated, they jittered, and Marilyn Monroe had gotten terribly old. We were sad, this wasn't the film we had dreamed of, this wasn't the total film that we all carried around inside us, this film that we would have wanted to make, or, more secretly, no doubt, that we would have wanted to live.

Offline Eclips

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2001, 09:58:28 PM »
when Zodd talks to Skull knight during the eclipse, how come he says: "i knew youd be here, you've opposed  us for *thousands* of years"            ???

correct me if im wrong but that means gaiseric cannot be SK
:o
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Online Walter

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2001, 10:25:16 PM »

Quote

I think Zodd is just looking for someone who can give him a challenge and ultamately kill him giving him what he is searching for and that is the proper warriors death. He would die happy fighting someone who is stronger than him.

...Isnt that what Griff said just with fewer words?

Quote

"i knew youd be here, you've opposed  us for *thousands* of years"            

correct me if im wrong but that means gaiseric cannot be SK

I dont know where you got the *thousands* part? Even in my Summaries in the FAQ it says that he says *1000 years*.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Fletch

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2001, 10:44:45 PM »
you know, everytime this comes up, somebody says something about destroying Idea & godhand... but i have a qustion about that. while i can see godhand being destroyed (they're basically just uber apostles, anyway), how the hell do you destroy Idea?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Online Walter

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2001, 10:48:31 PM »
The answer to that question lies in the parts of the Berserk universe that are still absurdly mysterious. For instance, why does Skully eat beherits? How are beherits formed? Why does Jills dad exist and why does he wear that stupid stupid hat?

There are gaps in the Berserk universe that could explain a way to attack a spiritual entity. Currently with what we know now, It would be physically impossible to destroy Idea. But perhaps what we need is not a physical destruction, but one of Ideas (not IDEA, but an idea). If idea was formed from different beliefs, perhaps it can be unmade?

Long story short, we dont know yet...BUT WE WILL!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Fishbomb

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2001, 02:41:32 AM »

Quote
Speaking of which, I hope to have 184-185 done in the next few days...I have a need to party, first.  ;)


YES!  ;D ;D ;DTranslations are good... But parties are good too!

I'll be waiting anyway...  ;D

And I'd love to see an ulitmate Uber USO therory! Post it!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Mage

Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2001, 10:26:52 AM »
speaking of translations, are the translations of ch. 182 still up?
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Offline Eclips

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2001, 04:52:17 PM »
Allright this is something...
looks like Zodd stole Gaiserics horse and somehow immortalized it
LOL i wonder if miaru is meaning something with these two horses  cuz they really look alike
take a good look at their eyes



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Griffith

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2001, 05:13:45 PM »
:o *stumbles backwards in terror*
No!… NOO!… NOOOOOOOOOOO!! NOT THE HORSES!! NOT AGAIN!!! ANYTHING BUT THE HORSES!!!! EVEN GUTS IS AN EFL, BUT NOT THE HORSES!!!!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

*runs away*

-Griffith

P.S. HOURS LATER

*shivering in the fetal position* …horses…horses…horses, horses…Griffith…a horse…horsey, horses…or Guts…GUTS?!…the ears…THE EARS!?!…NO!!! NOOOOOOOO!!!...DAMN YOU MIURA…YOU MADE HIM A HORSE!!!…YOU MADE GUTS A HORSE!!!…NO!!! THEY'RE ALL HORSES!!! DAMN THEM... DAMN THEM ALL TO HELL!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

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Re: A Zodd theory
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2001, 06:33:09 PM »
I believe that the ultimate strong one is both Guts and griffith. you see, without Guts griffith feels less motivated and doesn't have physical backup.(forgot all the godhand crap for a minute) and without griffith, Guts doesn't have much direction in his life, or his own dream. they can be the ultimate strong one together but grew apart because of their differences. now, they are both trying to become each other, to an extent. they learned from each other and now are trying to be the first one to incorporate both their dreams and power into accomplishing what they need to. griffith, who is more eager to realise his dream, joined godhand, though not exactly of his own will. he realized it wasn't right to achieve his dream with unworthy power, and was reborn to see if he could learn more from Guts and possibly have him join him to help each other accomplish their dreams.Guts, while powerful beyond belief, still has a good grasp on his dream and has fought on, his dream ever growing, almost with more direction than griffith.

together, they could achieve great things, but the powerful never understand each other well.

I think this is my best post ever so please read it!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »