Traitors and conspirators

Leeuwer

Out Of Will
I've been wondering about which characters from Berserk are most susceptible to treachery, and perhaps joining in with Guts', albeit when Berserk is nearing his end.
I made a post in Zodd's End, I believe, about how Zodd is going to stay true to his principles, and when he sees Griffith defeated, will allow Guts to carry on, and will be seen overlooking the battlefield, and making some legendary comment about the things that have passed.
(this is not treachery ..but stay with me on this one)
In the current timeline, it's most likely that Silat and his men are going to encounter Guts and one time or another.
Very silently, I expect Guts' party to arrive at Elfhelm and to find it completely destroyed by the Neo Hawks.(considering many wizards lived there ... it has to pose a major treat to Griffith)
Perhaps Silat will meet him there, and will discover his connection with Griffith, and will, in the end, help him to progress towards his ultimate goal.(I do not see them team up together...that would be unreal and corny)
Oh yes, and Rakshas. His comment about cutting Griffith's head of, may or may not be true in the end, but it's fairly obvious he leads a different path than the other apostles, trusting more on his own ways than the lead of Griffith ... (though we can only speculate about that ... Rakshas leading Silat and his men to Ganishka's Demon Soldier birth palace may well have been part of Griffith's plan ... although that would destroy the interesting morale Rakshas has about him)
And last, Slan.
Her perverse liking for pain and sex, and somewhat dislike for the other God Hand("Who cares about the others ? Probably floating around in one of their favourite dimensions ..."), and the attention she gives Guts, somehow lead me to believe that the others can't trust her. This is highly speculative, again, but I see her taking immense pleasure in observing, and perhaps aiding, in the other God Hand's downfall.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Leeuwer said:
I made a post in Zodd's End, I believe, about how Zodd is going to stay true to his principles, and when he sees Griffith defeated, will allow Guts to carry on, and will be seen overlooking the battlefield, and making some legendary comment about the things that have passed.

Well, if Zodd stays true to his principles, he won't allow anyone to lay a finger on Griffith, so he'd probably be dead by the time Guts would defeat him.

Leeuwer said:
Very silently, I expect Guts' party to arrive at Elfhelm and to find it completely destroyed by the Neo Hawks.(considering many wizards lived there ... it has to pose a major treat to Griffith)

You know, I don't think that's likely. First, Elfhelm is on an island (Skellig), and magically protected, as well as hidden from the rest of the world. Then, to get there, the Neo Hawks would need to cross the sea, and they didn't do it so far. Now, as I said in the past, even if they got there, do you think they could destroy it? To kill Flora, a single and dying witch, Griffith sent 2 of his generals, Zodd and Grunberd, plus twenty apostles or so. Now just imagine 20 (totally random number, could be more) magic users of her power, in their prime, and in a place naturally protected from evil. Add to that a great number of elves, and the "king of the flower storm".

Looks quite risky to me, considering that the Neo Hawks already have their hands full with Ganishka and the Kushan armies.

Leeuwer said:
Perhaps Silat will meet him there

But how would he get there? He was in Wyndham last time we saw him, and that's not so long ago in the Berserk world.

Leeuwer said:
and will discover his connection with Griffith, and will, in the end, help him to progress towards his ultimate goal.

I myself would like to see Silat and Guts working together for a common goal. I think it may happen after Ganishka's demise, once Guts & co return to the mainland (with Griffith revealing or not his true nature).

Leeuwer said:
And last, Slan.
Her perverse liking for pain and sex, and somewhat dislike for the other God Hand("Who cares about the others ? Probably floating around in one of their favourite dimensions ..."), and the attention she gives Guts, somehow lead me to believe that the others can't trust her. This is highly speculative, again, but I see her taking immense pleasure in observing, and perhaps aiding, in the other God Hand's downfall.

I don't buy it. First, what she told SK about the others in the Qliphoth don't reflect any kind of dislike to me, she just didn't care, and I think it might very well be mutual. Now, they're still brethren, and their downfall would be hers as well. Sure, she enjoys watching Guts struggling, but that's more like a kid playing with a bug than anything else, IMHO. Lastly, telling SK about the God Hand's activities wouldn't be the smartest thing to do.
 

Leeuwer

Out Of Will
Aazealh said:
Well, if Zodd stays true to his principles, he won't allow anyone to lay a finger on Griffith, so he'd probably be dead by the time Guts would defeat him.

By that, you assume that Guts will be the one to kill him, or at least being the one to hold him back long enough to reach Griffith.
I still see Skullknight being the one to battle Zodd in the end, since those seem to have a long history together, and Zodd has a likening for battling him.

Aazealh said:
You know, I don't think that's likely. First, Elfhelm is on an island (Skellig), and magically protected, as well as hidden from the rest of the world. Then, to get there, the Neo Hawks would need to cross the sea, and they didn't do it so far. Now, as I said in the past, even if they got there, do you think they could destroy it? To kill Flora, a single and dying witch, Griffith sent 2 of his generals, Zodd and Grunberd, plus twenty apostles or so. Now just imagine 20 (totally random number, could be more) magic users of her power, in their prime, and in a place naturally protected from evil. Add to that a great number of elves, and the "king of the flower storm".

You made a lot of good points here, especially about the number of wizards.
The transportation issue, I'm not gonna touch that one, since we have no clue what fleet or army Griffith has control over right now, or that he will receive shortly from Midland, outside of the Neo Hawks.

Aazealh said:
I myself would like to see Silat and Guts working together for a common goal. I think it may happen after Ganishka's demise, once Guts & co return to the mainland (with Griffith revealing or not his true nature).

Me too. I have somewhat of a picture in mind of them fighting back to back. Going out of line, I see Guts, Silat and Azan fighting together, since they have very different fighting styles.

Aazealh said:
I don't buy it. First, what she told SK about the others in the Qliphoth don't reflect any kind of dislike to me, she just didn't care, and I think it might very well be mutual. Now, they're still brethren, and their downfall would be hers as well. Sure, she enjoys watching Guts struggling, but that's more like a kid playing with a bug than anything else, IMHO. Lastly, telling SK about the God Hand's activities wouldn't be the smartest thing to do.

How do you know that their downfall would he hers as well ?
And, more importantly, Slan's sado-masochistic tendencies can't be ignored.
I see her rather enjoying her own downfall by Guts' hand.
But that could be my tendencies as well ...
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Leeuwer said:
By that, you assume that Guts will be the one to kill him, or at least being the one to hold him back long enough to reach Griffith.
I still see Skullknight being the one to battle Zodd in the end, since those seem to have a long history together, and Zodd has a likening for battling him.

I don't assume anything in particular (well, I do assume that Guts will kill Griffith :beast:), Zodd has pledged himself to Griffith, and I just don't think that he would survive him. Now, if you go by the "SK distracts him while Guts kills Griffith" scenario, sure he could live, but that seems rather unlikely to me. Zodd likes to fight against Guts too, by the way.

Leeuwer said:
The transportation issue, I'm not gonna touch that one, since we have no clue what fleet or army Griffith has control over right now, or that he will receive shortly from Midland, outside of the Neo Hawks.

Well, he has nothing, as far as we know.

Leeuwer said:
How do you know that their downfall would he hers as well ?

Because they're all part of the God Hand, followers of Idea, and that their general goal is common even if they "do as they will". That should be enough, really. Do you expect her to survive the others and be left alone afterwards? Or to betray them with ease? I don't know, I find it far-fetched.

Leeuwer said:
And, more importantly, Slan's sado-masochistic tendencies can't be ignored.
I see her rather enjoying her own downfall by Guts' hand.
But that could be my tendencies as well ...

Yeah, I don't see that as a very convincing justification for a betrayal. Just my opinion.
 

Leeuwer

Out Of Will
Aazealh said:
Because they're all part of the God Hand, followers of Idea, and that their general goal is common even if they "do as they will". That should be enough, really. Do you expect her to survive the others and be left alone afterwards? Or to betray them with ease? I don't know, I find it far-fetched.

I seriously see Slan going against the grain on this one.
Her motive is unclear, and to narrow her relationship with Guts down to just "playing with a bug" would do Miura terrible unjustice ...
In the end, she is obsessed with pain and suffering(see : Eclipse : the Rape of Casca; and in Qlipoth), and it would be a fantastic a-cliché turn of the plot when that obsession stretched beyond "just Guts", who, in all honesty, pretty much has had all the suffering that one person can have.(note : on the Guts' suffering and melancholy topic, I believe, and hope, that all of his extreme moments, such as losing his friends and having his love suffer, are temporarily over, and will only be roused by Griffith, towards the end)(note that I said extreme moments of suffering)
That said, I don't believe she is gonna be the one to give Guts a few blows in the gut(no pun intended), as Griffith did. This would bring down the series, as it is too much focused on Guts' melancholic existence.
Therefore, I conclude(very speculatively..:badbone:), that Slan's purpose will serve another than to bring Guts more pain, and she will acknowledge the fact that something bigger is about to happen, and will play a part in that, most likely in the downfall of the other Godhand, and not so much in Griffith's.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Leeuwer said:
I seriously see Slan going against the grain on this one.
Her motive is unclear, and to narrow her relationship with Guts down to just "playing with a bug" would do Miura terrible unjustice ...

Well, if you think of it that way, all of the God Hand members' motives are unknown, except maybe for Griffith and his dream... And while obviously my example was exaggerated, I don't find Slan's relationship with Guts to be overly subtle and complex...

Not forgetting that the God Hand wasn't assembled randomly, things were planned (if we are to believe what's in episode 83), and I wouldn't expect something as big as a betrayal from one of them to slip under Idea's radar (well, maybe Griffith would "betray" them in some way? :isidro: I've often thought about it, but that's not likely to happen as of now).

Leeuwer said:
In the end, she is obsessed with pain and suffering(see : Eclipse : the Rape of Casca; and in Qlipoth), and it would be a fantastic a-cliché turn of the plot when that obsession stretched beyond "just Guts"

Her field of expertise pretty much revolves around lust, as well as various "extreme" human emotions, so it's not really just pain and suffering. She influences the heretics in the same way that Conrad favorises the plague, and she called the Qliphoth her womb (she manifested herself on the place of a troll gang raping too, not a coincidence IMHO). I don't think her interest was ever limited to Guts, she just gives him a particular attention because... Well, he's quite the man, especially as far as strong emotions go (there's a lot of hatred, love, friendship, sorrow, fear in him, etc). :guts:

She's not the only one to find Guts' struggle entertaining by the way, the others also seemed to enjoy it on various occasions (in volume 3 and during the Occultation).

Leeuwer said:
That said, I don't believe she is gonna be the one to give Guts a few blows in the gut(no pun intended), as Griffith did.

Well, whether it counts as a blow in the gut or not, she dealt him the worst wound he ever got in the whole series, resulting in his current half-comatose state, as well as recurrently losing control while wearing the armor. That doesn't seem to be very "helpful" to him, and if SK hadn't shown up to save him, I think he would have died.

Leeuwer said:
she will acknowledge the fact that something bigger is about to happen, and will play a part in that, most likely in the downfall of the other Godhand, and not so much in Griffith's.

Hehe, something big is happening already, an "age of darkness" is being brought to the world, and she's supposed to play a big part in it. :void: Also, why not Griffith? He's the one of them we're the most familiar with, but apart from his incarnation, his case isn't so much different from theirs. If anything, he's leading the path, allowing them to get more power over the corporeal realm.

All of this is highly speculative anyway, as you said yourself, so there's no way to tell what will happen with certainty. As usual, wait & see.
 
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