Author Topic: Episode 263  (Read 67866 times)

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Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #150 on: October 15, 2005, 05:54:41 PM »
Blast from the past.  Griff gave me the idea.
Cool Walt and thanks Griff for giving Walt the idea! :serpico:

Offline roberto999

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #151 on: October 15, 2005, 08:27:51 PM »


The big question would be "why isn't he part of the Hawks anymore?" for someone like Owen, since their disappearance was never linked to the red lake. From these guys' point of view, Griffith and his troops could have gone into hiding for a couple of years, and are now coming back to protect Midland. Both BiQ-- and Jhot obs have plausible question possibilities considering this.

It could vary from "Are Griffith and the Hawks nearby?", "Did you come to help protect Vritannis?", "So the Hawks are really back to defend Midland!" to "What happened 3 years ago?" or "The Hawks have supporters in Midland"... Whatever it is, it should prove to be interesting.
Owen was saved in the demon city from the attack of a elephant man and a croc man thanks to Irvine and Locus and now  Guts saved him and the other nobles from the tigers . Also Locus promised that soon Griffith would have defeated Ganishka once and for all. The more logical thing for him is to think that Guts too was sent by Griffith. Maybe he will, without realising it, reveal to Guts the little that he knows about Griffith and his plans
« Last Edit: October 15, 2005, 08:30:48 PM by roberto999 »
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #152 on: October 15, 2005, 08:28:54 PM »
Owen was saved in the demon city from the attack of a elephant man and a croc man thanks to Irvine and Locus

Nope, that was Raban.

Also Locus promised that soon Griffith would have defeated Ganishka once and for all.

Yep, I remember that. I wonder how soon will that be. :serpico:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #153 on: October 15, 2005, 09:18:22 PM »
Yep, I remember that. I wonder how soon will that be. :serpico:
Probably not soon enough, by my standards, but it'll be worth it once we see it. :void:

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #154 on: October 16, 2005, 04:34:42 PM »
Probably not soon enough, by my standards, but it'll be worth it once we see it. :void:



My guess would probably be atleast another year.

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #155 on: October 16, 2005, 05:16:20 PM »
I'm in no hurry, whats happening now is just as interesting, IMO
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Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #156 on: October 16, 2005, 05:55:12 PM »
I'm in no hurry, whats happening now is just as interesting, IMO
Agreed, I'm gonna sit back and enjoy the show that's happenin' right now. :guts:

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #157 on: October 17, 2005, 07:45:28 AM »
greetings, this is my first post, but I've been reading here for a long time- you guys have some great insight :)

anyway, I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction as to which episode it was that detailed Farnese's childhood.


thanks

Offline Record Low

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #158 on: October 17, 2005, 08:27:06 AM »
what he said............ :puck:
Men who can no longer bear their sadness take up their rage.


Offline asmer

Re: Episode 263
« Reply #159 on: October 17, 2005, 08:31:10 AM »
anyway, I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction as to which episode it was that detailed Farnese's childhood.
It's a bit off topic, but:
177: Snow, Flames and...(1)
178: Snow, Flames and...(2)

Offline xechnao

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #160 on: October 17, 2005, 10:22:32 AM »
Well I think its a setup.... lets see who is going on board the ship... Gut`s and Co, Roderick, and Magnifico.... I think Roderick is working for either Ganishka or Griffith. Gut`s doesn't trust Roderick one bit and it pretty much made evedint in the near end pages when they introduce themselves to each other.


No, it is Guts that follows or throws himself in causality.

Anyway, is Roderick and his ship important for causality's tale?
We still have to see where Guts has thrown himself into.
And what he could make out of it.
Well, he impressed Farnsese in the past ...but it seemed that there was not such a great affinity among her and causality, at least by her POV :)
What will be Roderick's case?



Quote
With daddy Vandimion back in the City and the son on ship.. who`s to say that he wont lead them to some place for an ambush or a waiting force.. not like anyone in the group REALLY knows the direction to Elfhelm.... Just my thought.
Also Roderick said that he finished his mission... what mission is that? and for certain for who? Tis a mystery!!!   :carcus:
Quote

You ambush somebody when you will make a profit out of it, ie ambush Magnifico to ask Vadiminions for a ransom. But right now Vadiminions and the Holy See "alliance" face more important and chaotic situations to ask them about something like that.
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #161 on: October 17, 2005, 12:33:42 PM »
No, it is Guts that follows or throws himself in causality.

wow, you almost sound like you know what you're talking about here.  Awesome!

Anyway, is Roderick and his ship important for causality's tale?
We still have to see where Guts has thrown himself into.
And what he could make out of it.
Well, he impressed Farnsese in the past ...but it seemed that there was not such a great affinity among her and causality, at least by her POV :)
What will be Roderick's case?

So many question I have for you @-->---- 
Most of the in the form of "FJSLDFJ?" or other inaudible gibberish.

You ambush somebody when you will make a profit out of it, ie ambush Magnifico to ask Vadiminions for a ransom. But right now Vadiminions and the Holy See "alliance" face more important and chaotic situations to ask them about something like that.

While I'm curious to the specifics of Roderick mission, theres nothing to point to an imminent betrayal.  Magnifico, maybe, but mostly out of cowardice.  I think once we know more about his "mission" we would know if he's indeed a spy or traitor.
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Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #162 on: October 17, 2005, 01:17:01 PM »
No, it is Guts that follows or throws himself in causality.

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #163 on: October 17, 2005, 01:31:14 PM »
No, it is Guts that follows or throws himself in causality.

Hmm yeah, I don't really see the relation with what SaiyajinNoOuji said. Or with anything else for that matters. And Causality envelops everything, I don't think it's very pertinent to talk about throwing oneself into it, or having an affinity with it.

You ambush somebody when you will make a profit out of it, ie ambush Magnifico to ask Vadiminions for a ransom. But right now Vadiminions and the Holy See "alliance" face more important and chaotic situations to ask them about something like that.

Well, capturing Magnifico would be a way to put Federico Vandimion under pressure and impede his funding of the war (or try at least). Only Ganishka doesn't care about putting him under pressure at all, Griffith even less. Besides, Magnifico is Roderick's (whose mission was to deliver a missive) long time friend as I said already, so... I don't think it's likely at all.

PS: Please make an effort with the names.

Offline xechnao

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #164 on: October 17, 2005, 02:21:49 PM »
wow, you almost sound like you know what you're talking about here.  Awesome!
So many question I have for you @-->----  
Most of the in the form of "FJSLDFJ?" or other inaudible gibberish.

In fact, I do.
Clue so you know too: two of skullknight's explanations to Guts.
If that's not enough ask before jumping to conclusions about me.
Or let me save you from the effort:

Causality is a sort of control or plan that establishes where things go. Griffith, people and their mutual relation are inside causality. Furthermore Griffith and causality are very near, being a kind of one.
Guts is out of causality, period. But Guts can influence a little bit the world and people around him by showing himself, showing that he exists. This means that elements of causality get to see Guts and if Guts becomes more important to them than causality those elements should get to interact stronger with Guts. This means that Guts can influence causality. Guts, at the same time deals with causality because the world he lives and acts into is the world dominated by causality.  


Farnese for example was feeling relatively unimportant and clueless in her world so she easily follows Guts, since this unimportance was a problem for her needing to be solved.
Serpico follows Farnese.
Isidro was unimportant but very ambitious so he grasps Guts' alternative and follows him too.  
Schierke has to yet find out what her relation with Guts will be.

What about Roderick?
At the current episode we see Guts dealing more with causality than influencing it.
Roderick had a mission that he accomplished and was to leave Vritannis. Guts wants to ride his boat till the island of Skellig. It is not Roderick that looked for Guts, the other way around.
So we have to find out what Roderick's position in causality IS, to see what will happen to Guts and him while they are together.


While I'm curious to the specifics of Roderick mission, theres nothing to point to an imminent betrayal.  Magnifico, maybe, but mostly out of cowardice.  I think once we know more about his "mission" we would know if he's indeed a spy or traitor.
Roderick can't be a spy or a traitor. It just doesn't make sense. As I explained allready it doesn't fit the contest to be a traitor in regards of the Vandimion or Guts.
If a spy for what or for whom? The Kushans? With all their beasts and their magic I don't think they need him or that they could even interact working with.
For Griffith?
I doupt Griffith has reached lands far away to have that important realtions.
A captain and a spy for his own country spying on Vritanis?
What for?
It doesn't make sense really.
He is just there to pose a formal comunication to some authority.
Why did he bring a warship? Well with the Kushans they could never know so they needed more protection I guess.

Hmm yeah, I don't really see the relation with what SaiyajinNoOuji said. Or with anything else for that matters.
It seemed to me that Saiya was thinking that Roderick could be there as a traitor of Guts or Magnifico...at least the way he worded his post.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2005, 02:28:23 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #165 on: October 17, 2005, 03:14:44 PM »
*Sigh* xechnao...

Causality is a sort of control or plan that establishes where things go.

Causality is the relation between causes and effects, and in Berserk it's a tool to the Idea of Evil. It's not a "plan" in itself, it's what is used to accomplish Idea's plan, influencing the world on a very subtle level.

Furthermore Griffith and causality are very near, being a kind of one.

Uh? No, Griffith isn't one with causality, it's just that causality works in his favor, or vice versa. Even if you get the idea, the way you're wording things makes your post confusing. I don't see why you bring notions of proximity here.

Guts is out of causality, period.

No, no, NO. He is NOT outside of causality. How many times will that need to be said? And the rest of your post concerning causality is a total wreck, I'm not even touching it. Things just don't work like that. Please read older threads about it and don't let this develop into some gargantuan off topic monster.

Offline xechnao

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #166 on: October 17, 2005, 03:21:16 PM »
*Sigh* xechnao...

Causality is the relation between causes and effects, and in Berserk it's a tool to the Idea of Evil. It's not a "plan" in itself, it's what is used to accomplish Idea's plan, influencing the world on a very subtle level.

Uh? No, Griffith isn't one with causality, it's just that causality works in his favor, or vice versa. Even if you get the idea, the way you're wording things makes your post confusing. I don't see why you bring notions of proximity here...the rest of your post concerning causality is a total wreck, I'm not even touching it. Things just don't work like that. Please read older threads about it and don't let this develop into some gargantuan off topic monster.

Obviously by causality I was talking about Idea's plan.
Well, yes, actually you are not telling something different than I do, just wording it differently.
As for what could be more confusing, IMO my wording works better as I could explain the whole deal in a paragraph. But that's just my opinion.
 
No, no, NO. He is NOT outside of causality. How many times will that need to be said?

Guts should be a sacrifice. Thus Guts being or not a dead man walking is somewhat in conflict with causality or idea's plan, no?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2005, 03:23:39 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #167 on: October 17, 2005, 03:29:36 PM »
Your ability to take something like "Whisky Tango Foxtrot" and change it into "It seemed to me that Saiya was thinking that Roderick could be there as a traitor of Guts or Magnifico...at least the way he worded his post." instills in me the idea that you have a profound mastery of the english language, almost as uncanny as your ability to take something of your own opinion and state it as fact.


Guts is out of causality, period.

You have absolutely no proof of this. In fact, the only thing that has been stated in the manga was the complete opposite: That they were all hopelessly bound to causality and unable to change it.

(the rest of your post)

Your knowledge of the intricate details of causality is uncanny!  You know more than god hand!  WOW!  :griff: : (sarcasm, in  case you're wondering)

I love you wrote a whole paragraph on how Guts is outside causality without citing a SINGLE source or shred of proof to support your claims.  Stating that Farnese and co. are with Guts as proof is NOT good enough.  That proves jack shit.

(all that blathering about roderick not being a traitor)

Read what you quotted me on, ya big silly.  Aw screw it, I'll make it clear for you:
Quote from: CnC
While I'm curious to the specifics of Roderick mission, theres nothing to point to an imminent betrayal.

I'm saying that we don't know enough about Roderick's role in Vit. to draw any conclusions.  Anything outside that is speculation based on nothing.  Something you must be familiar with by now.

Cheers :chomp:
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #168 on: October 17, 2005, 03:34:42 PM »

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #169 on: October 17, 2005, 03:35:23 PM »
werd?  word!
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #170 on: October 17, 2005, 03:36:23 PM »
As for what could be more confusing, IMO my wording works better as I could explain the whole deal in a paragraph.

Yeah well, I don't think it explains much. It's fine anyway.
 
Guts should be a sacrifice.

He is a sacrifice. You're sacrificed from the moment you get branded. Not to be dead doesn't change this (see all the times where Guts is called a "sacrifice" in the manga).

Thus Guts being or not a dead man walking is somewhat in conflict with causality or idea's plan, no?

Well no, why would it be? That's the kind of misconception usually coming from erroneous translations. Causality can adapt itself, it's not rigid, and if Guts and Casca hadn't escaped from the Occultation, the story as we know it wouldn't have been possible. It's really too subtle for us to assume anything about it with certainty, but what is sure is that being a sacrifice is just that, it dooms the branded person to go to hell.

As a quick counter example, in episode 203 Skull Knight tells Flora that Guts "may also be one of the variables guided by the laws of causality". The fish analogy Slann talks about during the Eclipse explains this well enough: he can go against the current of causality, but he can't change the direction of the flow.

Offline xechnao

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #171 on: October 17, 2005, 03:43:05 PM »
You have absolutely no proof of this.  In fact, the only thing that has been stated in the manga was the complete opposite: That they were all hopelessly bound to causality and unable to change it.

Be outside of causality and being able to change it are 2 different things according to my post above. Guts should be dead now, but he escaped "causality".
This is what I meant.
At the same time, I explained how Guts actions are bound by
causality. But Guts has escaped his destiny
I doupt that was causality's plan the killing of the count or Roshinu...I also doupt that was causality's plan for Guts to be in Qlipoth or escape it's destruction.

Read what you quotted me on, ya big silly.  Aw screw it, I'll make it clear for you:
I'm saying that we don't know enough about Roderick's role in Vit. to draw any conclusions.  Anything outside that is speculation based on nothing.  Something you must be familiar with by now.
Cheers :chomp:

I don't think it is speculation that Roderick is not a spy or a traitor.

Yeah well, I don't think it explains much. It's fine anyway.
 
He is a sacrifice. You're sacrificed from the moment you get branded. Not to be dead doesn't change this (see all the times where Guts is called a "sacrifice" in the manga).

Well no, why would it be? That's the kind of misconception usually coming from erroneous translations. Causality can adapt itself, it's not rigid, and if Guts and Casca hadn't escaped from the Occultation, the story as we know it wouldn't have been possible. It's really too subtle for us to assume anything about it with certainty, but what is sure is that being a sacrifice is just that, it dooms the branded person to go to hell.

As a quick counter example, in episode 203 Skull Knight tells Flora that Guts "may also be one of the variables guided by the laws of causality". The fish analogy Slann talks about during the Eclipse explains this well enough: he can go against the current of causality, but he can't change the direction of the flow.

Flora eased the effects of the brand. The elf king could even perhaps erase it. Are these stuff in causality?
And why does skullknight called Guts as a fish in the lake if he should just be a part of the lake's surface.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2005, 03:45:00 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #172 on: October 17, 2005, 03:44:24 PM »
I will state this simply so that you might understand it:

You're basing all of your presumptions on nothing.


---for more detail re-read either my post or Aaz's post.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #173 on: October 17, 2005, 03:49:57 PM »
He must have forgotten to take his red and blue pills this morning. :troll:

Anyway, his misguided presumptions are based on misguided translations in the first place. Plus, it's Xech; best to ignore it.

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 263
« Reply #174 on: October 17, 2005, 03:51:53 PM »
Guts should be dead now, but he escaped "causality".
I explained how Guts actions are bound by causality. But Guts has escaped his destiny
Flora eased the effects of the brand. The elf king could even perhaps erase it. Are these stuff in causality?
And why does skullknight called Guts as a fish in the lake if he should just be a part of the lake's surface.

If you still don't understand that (basic concepts) after all this time, nothing can be done. End of this anyway, you won't spoil this thread (please, no more replies about it from anybody).


EDIT: To xech's demand because he felt the way things went in the thread made him look like an "ignorant idiot" (not my words), here's an extract from our PMs to show that we settled this and that all is well:

Quote from: xechnao
Well, it's what I said really first place. I said that Guts lives in a world dominated by causality thus he is influenced by it. It is just some wording that changes really.

Then I'm sorry but you don't know how to express yourself correctly, because that's not what people understand when reading what you wrote.

Quote from: xechnao
Kinda make it seem that what ever I say is wrong

Well, Guts isn't outside of Causality... Actually saying that people are inside and outside of it is wrong in the first place. Usually people say "Guts is outside of fate!" from the use of wrong translations, like when you said he escaped his destiny.

Quote from: xechnao
while in fact the only thing that changes is the way we use the word causality: you use it as the means only, I use it to describe the means and the plan.
Bid deal about that. But you did make a big deal in the thread.

Your posts were confusing to people, and what you said in them was wrong. Like I said, even if you get the idea, the way you worded things was incorrect. It's not like I'm the only one thinking that here amigo, Griffith and CnC also do, and SaiyajinNoOuji found your reply confusing as well. It's ok, no big deal, but insisting for days and writing 10 pages about it isn't needed.


Now let's get back on topic: will Azan appear, when and how? Will Guts' group encounter enemies on their way to the ship (likely), how many and when? Will the trip to Elfhelm be long? Will the Vandimions, Owen and the others survive, and how? Will the Neo Hawks intervene at some point, and when? Will the story switch to Griffith's side soon, and when? Will we see Daiba in action, why, when and how? Will Ganishka manifest himself in Vritannis again? What do you think the message Roderick delivered was about? Etc.