Author Topic: Episode 264  (Read 53967 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #125 on: October 28, 2005, 05:39:00 PM »
qlipoth weren't apostles

What are you talking about? Who said anything about the Qliphoth? It doesn't relate in any way. And I concur with Walter's post about the signification of the panel.

Kart was saying that the hawk of darkness or the shadow of the hawk has to do with the apostles, right?

No, he was talking about the shadow of the hawk statue that's cast on the ground in page 08 of this episode, not the Falcon of Darkness in itself.

Offline Psymont 2.0

Re: Episode 264
« Reply #126 on: October 28, 2005, 06:06:31 PM »
Im in S. Florida and have had no power since monday thanks to hurricane wilma... coming back to find a new epi has made it all worth while... thanks so much

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #127 on: October 28, 2005, 06:22:49 PM »
Note:

The idea of "the shadow of the hawk" may be those who trail him, the apostles. We are not sure whether or not griffith intends to hurt midland, he may still want it as his own kingdom. But im sure the apostles are really going to cause problems once the war is over. The shadow of him, being his dark army.

I have to disagree about Griffith not intending to hurt Midland.  The shadow represents his dark side, the Hawk of Darkness.  I think that once he has Midland the worlds will be almost completely merged and an age of darkness and despair will take over the country.  Whether Griffith will view this as evil or not is one thing, but from the perspective of the people or the Holy See it will no doubt appear to be quite evil.

Offline xechnao

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #128 on: October 28, 2005, 07:14:10 PM »
What are you talking about? Who said anything about the Qliphoth? It doesn't relate in any way. And I concur with Walter's post about the signification of the panel.

Hmmm, I think I have misunderstood Kart's post. I thought he was pressuming that the shadow of the hawk and the hawk of darkness were the same.
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Mad Angel Loki

Re: Episode 264
« Reply #129 on: October 28, 2005, 07:27:14 PM »
But it's likely the same (it's a metaphor as said by Aaz)
Totally out topic but...how old is Guts exactly? He looks like 40 at least but he may not even be 30(accordding to my calculation)and even if I think than a painful life experience can make you look older I can't understand how a twenty guy can look so "mature"
Arf...

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #130 on: October 28, 2005, 07:32:21 PM »
But it's likely the same (it's a metaphor as said by Aaz)
Totally out topic but...how old is Guts exactly? He looks like 40 at least but he may not even be 30(accordding to my calculation)and even if I think than a painful life experience can make you look older I can't understand how a twenty guy can look so "mature"
http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/world/timeline

He's ~22.
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Offline Woland

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #131 on: October 28, 2005, 07:47:55 PM »
I think he looks like he's in his twenties, though the scars and that white hair make him look older.

Anyhoo, back on topic, the Pontiff was amazingly rejuvanated by the episode's end.  And I was half expecting Roderick to try and sneak a peek at Farnese.
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Offline Mad Angel Loki

Re: Episode 264
« Reply #132 on: October 28, 2005, 07:57:28 PM »
So he is really 22...I hoped I was wrong but it seem I wasn't , it's weird that a 22yrs old guy look so "Grampy" but it's plausible considering his life...anyway thanks Walter  :serpico:
And back to the topic hum  :???: ...I've nothing to say 
Arf...

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #133 on: October 28, 2005, 08:09:37 PM »
So he is really 22...I hoped I was wrong but it seem I wasn't , it's weird that a 22yrs old guy look so "Grampy" but it's plausible considering his life...anyway thanks Walter  :serpico:
And back to the topic hum  :???: ...I've nothing to say 

grampy?  He doesn't really look old to me.  Sure he has scars and the tuft of white hair, but still not old looking
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #134 on: October 28, 2005, 08:31:32 PM »
So he is really 22...I hoped I was wrong but it seem I wasn't , it's weird that a 22yrs old guy look so "Grampy" but it's plausible considering his life...

My opinion on the matter (since you haven't asked for it :carcus:) is that he's closer to 23 than 22 if we take all the stuff that happened into consideration. And like CnC, I don't think he looks that old, just older than the others. Farnese and Serpico are pretty young themselves you know... Anyway, the timeline is here to answer that kind of questions.

the Pontiff was amazingly rejuvanated by the episode's end.

Yeah, shows that there's more to Griffith's power than just pretty illusions (if that still needed proof after Zodd's confrontation with the Falcon of Light). I also like how the Pontiff says that he felt something when he touched it. That's actually pretty scary if you want my opinion. :beast:

Offline Jhot obs

Re: Episode 264
« Reply #135 on: October 28, 2005, 08:36:32 PM »
With the Pontiff, along with some of his men, Mule and Sonia, heading to Vritannis (even after hearing how the Kushans have turned it into a war zone), bringing along the Holy See Alliance's armed forces or Griffith's Band of the Hawk for protection would be a good idea. That's the reason why Mule and Sonia dropped by, so I'd expect an apostle or two to be bodyguarding them along the way (Irvine?). Having the Pontiff in Griffith's pocket will only boost his popularity among the masses and having his forces with the Holy See's versus the Kushan's familiars and daka will make a spectacular city battle.  :guts:

What the Pontiff plans to do in Vritannis specifically, I don't know. He doesn't know what exactly are the Kushan forces are assaulting Vritannis, but I imagine he'll be the rallying point for everyone there and recruiting supporters for Griffith. Maybe heading to city hall where all the nobles are going to unite with the army generals to deal with the Kushans.

Just a thought: with Sonia and Mule heading back to Vritannis, it'll be a dramatic reunion with Schierke and Isidro if they run into each other again. :isidro:

Offline Mage

Re: Episode 264
« Reply #136 on: October 28, 2005, 09:55:28 PM »
It's a clear visual metaphor for Griffith, The Hawk of Light and Darkness.

Notice how Miura focuses on the Hawk symbol, and subsequently its shadow. Both panels are distinct and of equal size. Miura is obviously drawing attention to it. It's also worth noting that the shadow is from the Hawk statue, not some independant entity.

Oh, ok.  It actually sort of jumped out at me so I thought maybe there was something more I was missing.  It wouldn't be the first time!
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Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #137 on: October 28, 2005, 10:00:11 PM »
Im pretty sure now that the Pontiff is going to go really extreme with what ever he does now. Seeing how he has said that he has had nothing really happen in his life... no real intense love, no hate, no nothing... now that he thinks that "Fate's" hand (haha god hand) is reaching out to him, he is probably going to go all out since he near the end of his life. Just my thought.
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Offline dawy

Re: Episode 264
« Reply #138 on: October 28, 2005, 10:02:52 PM »
Farnese and Serpico are pretty young themselves you know...

According to what I have read in volume 22, Farnese was 16 when she was sent to the cloyster, and we know that she has spent 3 years at the head of the holy chains knight. The speculation will be on how did it take to make her "religion fanatic", I will estimate between that she spent 1 or 2 year in the cloyster. So, I think Farnese is around 20 and Serpico is +/- 1 or 2 years of Farnese (IMHO he is a little older). For me they are both around 20 (+1?), and  as Guts is 22-23 (the timeline is quite accurate for him, thx Skullknight.net), I don't think they are this young.
I will go with the theory that Guts look older because he is (a little), and he has lived an incredible life (always struggling, fighting, always close to death).

Offline jepn30

Re: Episode 264
« Reply #139 on: October 29, 2005, 03:02:18 AM »
Yeah I sometimes forget how young Guts is. But if he looks weathered it certainly makes sense, continous physical and emotional exhaustion (the endless fighting), lack of a proper sleep patern, and let's not forget all the injuries (and re-injuries) which are never fully healed under what one would call ideal circumstances (the bastard is lucky he has Puck  :puck: ). Is it any wonder he looks a little older than most 22/23 year olds... Not to mention Guts has been fighting for just about all of his life, and the last two or more years have not been easy - hell look how rough two years was on the Dragon Slayer.
 

Offline xechnao

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #140 on: October 29, 2005, 02:25:47 PM »
Yeah, shows that there's more to Griffith's power than just pretty illusions (if that still needed proof after Zodd's confrontation with the Falcon of Light).

I think it was the psychology of the pontiff that really changed, influencing of course his physical stature.

Im pretty sure now that the Pontiff is going to go really extreme with what ever he does now. Seeing how he has said that he has had nothing really happen in his life... no real intense love, no hate, no nothing... now that he thinks that "Fate's" hand (haha god hand) is reaching out to him, he is probably going to go all out since he near the end of his life. Just my thought.

Yes, he will order the HS allied armies to fight the Kushans thus bringing them(HS armies) to their destruction.

But I think that the important outcome of this episode's event, if the pontif survives will be the answer to the question what will happen as soon as the pontiff meets with Griffith. Will the later officially become the Holy See's Hawk of Light for every single authority that is alleged to the Holy See (including every noble etch...)?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2005, 02:38:00 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #141 on: October 29, 2005, 02:41:50 PM »
But I think that the important outcome of this episode's event, if the pontif survives will be the answer to the question what will happen as soon as the pontiff meets with Griffith. Will the later officially become the Holy See's Hawk of Light for every single authority that is alleged to the Holy See (including every noble etch...)?
Im thinking so.. imagine this... a kid with no friends or nothing... meets up with the popular guy at his school. THe popular guys wants him to join his group... the lonely kid now has a "friend" and wants to make him happy by doing what ever the popular kid says. Thats the simplified way I suppose but its pretty much accurate.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2005, 03:10:05 PM by SaiyajinNoOuji »
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Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #142 on: October 29, 2005, 02:54:36 PM »
Im thinking so.. imagine this... a kid with no friends or nothing... meets up with the popular guy at his school. THe popular guys wants him to join his group... the lonely kid now does what ever the popular kid says. Thats the simplified way I suppose but its pretty much accurate.

That's a great way to sum it up. I was never the popular one...  Yeah, I imagine that the Pontiff will sort of be the "false prophet" of the anti-Christ figure Griffith seems to be modeled after.  Least that's the first thing that jumped to my mind.  Opinions anyone? :carcus:

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #143 on: October 29, 2005, 03:58:41 PM »
Yes, he will order the HS allied armies to fight the Kushans thus bringing them(HS armies) to their destruction.

So... you THINK he will order the allied army to attack, right? You're not some kind of oracle are you?

Anyway, do they even need an order to attack? The battle has already begun.  I'm sure the generals and soldiers of the alliance arent just waiting around for the official order to defend themselves.

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #144 on: October 29, 2005, 04:06:39 PM »
Having the Pontiff in Griffith's pocket will only boost his popularity among the masses

Yeah, problem is that he's not going to last very long apparently. And the next on the list is Politiano, that should prove to be interesting.

with Sonia and Mule heading back to Vritannis, it'll be a dramatic reunion with Schierke and Isidro if they run into each other again.

I doubt it will happen, honestly.

According to what I have read in volume 22, Farnese was 16 when she was sent to the cloyster, and we know that she has spent 3 years at the head of the holy chains knight.

It's not exactly like that. She was 16 when he was sent to that cloister, and Serpico says that it's been 3 years since the winter when they burned his mother up to this point (them getting close to Guts and later meeting him). Furthermore, it's said that Serpico's mother was burned the winter of the year Farnese was sent to the Holy See and became the head of the H.I.C.K. (and with some subtle details we can assume it was autumn when her father sent her there, the falling leaves and all), so she didn't spend a long time in reclusion before getting that title. Remember that she was always fascinated by the fire, and that she burned people even as a kid. No need for a lot of indoctrination. So that makes her 19, possibly 20 counting vague time gaps (but in this case, Guts could be older too). As for Serpico, I don't think he's especially older than her. As a kid he was barely taller, and she's not so tall as an adult. Given the quick growth of children I'd say it makes them almost the same age. We have no way to precisely know of course, but that's what I assume without real information. So yeah, they're young (which doesn't mean they're 15).

But if he looks weathered it certainly makes sense, continous physical and emotional exhaustion (the endless fighting), lack of a proper sleep patern, and let's not forget all the injuries

Yep, but it's not just that, mentally he's gone through a lot of things. His life was really eventful, it's normal for him to be so mature in my opinion, and that influences the way we look at him.

I think it was the psychology of the pontiff that really changed, influencing of course his physical stature.

I doubt it's only psychological, Xech. He said he touched it, and the same Falcon did cut Zodd's horn in real life.

Will the later officially become the Holy See's Hawk of Light for every single authority that is alleged to the Holy See?

That's an interesting question, I think it depends on many things actually. The current pontiff could die very soon for all we know, but who says Griffith simply won't do the same to the next (Politiano?). If Griffith was considered divine by the Holy See, he'd instantly gain a lot of influence on a lot of things, he probably could annex several countries under his banner and create an empire with a minimum of violence required. I could even see a religious reign based on the fear that monsters (apostles, astral beings, etc) would devour the non-believers (not unlike what Catholicism did historically). But that's counting without the Kushans, and we don't know exactly how powerful the Holy See is, nor what its resources are. What's sure is that there's a lot of possibilities for Miura to exploit here, but it's nothing new.

Anyway, Miura had a message in this YA saying that he was sorry for the slow pace (after previously putting a lot of effort into it).

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #145 on: October 29, 2005, 04:13:30 PM »
Anyway, Miura had a message in this YA saying that he was sorry for the slow pace.

Dude, it's totally cool, no need to work yourself to death. :guts: Chances of him actually reading this...zero.

Offline xechnao

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #146 on: October 29, 2005, 04:21:32 PM »
So... you THINK he will order the allied army to attack, right? You're not some kind of oracle are you?

Anyway, do they even need an order to attack? The battle has already begun.  I'm sure the generals and soldiers of the alliance arent just waiting around for the official order to defend themselves.



Well they could retreat if they are facing unfavourable odds and thus live to fight another day, no?
Instead it seems, the way I think as you say, that this possibility is ruled out now.
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Shirukei

Re: Episode 264
« Reply #147 on: October 29, 2005, 04:38:01 PM »
Anyway, Miura had a message in this YA saying that he was sorry for the slow pace (after previously putting a lot of effort into it).
Does this mean that Miura potentially would hasten up his releases?  :guts:

And the next on the list is Politiano, that should prove to be interesting.
I really hope this guy wouldn't get slain in the Kushan attack.  :judo:

By the way do you think the feathery image that the Pointiff saw in his imagination was an act of the God Hand (Griffith) to make him believe that the White Hawk is his saviour? (Appearence of Sonia and Mule during that very moment proves to be doubtful that isn't Griffiths doing). Or it was just a mere coincidence?

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #148 on: October 29, 2005, 04:39:31 PM »
By the way do you think the feathery image that the Pointiff saw in his imagination was an act of the God Hand (Griffith) to make him believe that the White Hawk is his saviour? (Appearence of Sonia and Mule during that very moment proves to be doubtful that isn't Griffiths doing). Or it was just a mere coincidence?

I think the source of the vision was Griffith.  I believe the coincidence of Sonia and Mule showing up was only meant to reinforce the vision.  Everything appears to be orchestrated by Griffith, though. :griff:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 264
« Reply #149 on: October 29, 2005, 04:41:34 PM »
Does this mean that Miura potentially would hasten up his releases?

Nope.

I really hope this guy wouldn't get slain in the Kushan attack.

Hard to be sure, but I don't think he will, as I said in the past.

By the way do you think the feathery image that the Pointiff saw in his imagination was an act of the God Hand (Griffith) to make him believe that the White Hawk is his saviour?

Yeah, it's Griffith's doing, I don't think it could possibly be a coincidence.