Author Topic: Herbie the Beherit  (Read 4151 times)

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Offline Graywords

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Herbie the Beherit
« on: July 29, 2002, 04:24:35 PM »
Where do you think Griffith's crimson beherit is now?  The last place I remember seeing it in the manga was shortly before he agreed to the sacrifice, hanging from his left hand...

Judging from experience with other apostles, he'd be hanging on to it for decor purposes or something... of course, we don't know for sure if crimson beherits are any different, maybe God Hand takes it and spits it back out randomly into the world, when the time of the eclipse approaches... *shrug*  Then again, there's the whole causality/fate thing which probably takes the beherit to wherever it needs to be...

Are there any appearances of Griffy's beherit later on in the manga that I somehow missed?  I'd like to know where it is *now* in the story... not like it'll matter much... but I'm curious.  ^^
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Olivier Hague

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2002, 05:19:57 PM »
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Are there any appearances of Griffy's beherit later on in the manga that I somehow missed?

No.
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I'd like to know where it is *now* in the story...

Maybe it simply doesn't exist anymore?
After all, if Femto was supposed to be the last God Hand...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Graywords

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2002, 05:39:52 PM »
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Maybe it simply doesn't exist anymore?
After all, if Femto was supposed to be the last God Hand...

That seems like a pretty big "if"...  is there something that suggests he'd be the last?

Makes you wonder, maybe it was the very same Beherit Griffith had, that gave the previous 4 God-Hand members their current status.

Also, a new member of God-Hand is born every 200-something years, wasn't it?  Provided that the Gaiseric legend is true, and that 4 or 5 angels (presumably God-Hand) came down around 1000 years ago, there HAD to have been some God-Hand members being replaced or switched during that thousand-year interim.  Maybe Skully took a few of them out and they had to fill in the positions?  Or maybe they just come up for term, like congressmen... *cough*.

Or maybe I'm missing a fundamental here... I'm really not sure. ^^;  Let me know.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Spike

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2002, 01:27:19 AM »
 From what I understand, there have never been five members of the Godhand before Griffith.  Assuming that the "rumors" are true...it began with Void, then three others were "elected" every two hundred years (or however long...i forget), and Griffith just happened to be the fifth Godhand that burdgeoned on the fifth thousandth year.

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Provided that the Gaiseric legend is true, and that 4 or 5 angels...


  Curious...does the legend explicitly say that there were 4 or 5 angels?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Walter

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2002, 01:37:05 AM »
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 From what I understand, there have never been five members of the Godhand before Griffith.  Assuming that the "rumors" are true...it began with Void, then three others were "elected" every two hundred years (or however long...i forget), and Griffith just happened to be the fifth Godhand that burdgeoned on the fifth thousandth year.

The "rumors" are very versatile  8). The rumor that Im fond of says that Void was the first of the newest batch of God Hand. The old 5 consisted of Gaiseric and 4 unknowns. As history is repeating itself now, I assume it did for Gaiseric too. But of cource, this is all just speculation.
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  Curious...does the legend explicitly say that there were 4 or 5 angels?

Judeau's and Charlotte's stories differ in that each heard different numbers. Charlotte heard 5, Judeau heard 4. This can be explained in... I dont feel like explaining it again, its on some of the older speculations posts...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Graywords

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2002, 02:37:50 AM »
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From what I understand, there have never been five members of the Godhand before Griffith.  Assuming that the "rumors" are true...it began with Void, then three others were "elected" every two hundred years (or however long...i forget), and Griffith just happened to be the fifth Godhand that burdgeoned on the fifth thousandth year.

Well, there are just too many possibilities to count.  It's possible that God Hand started somewhere around a thousand years ago, and that Slan, Conrad, and Ubik came along at 200-some-odd year intervals up until the most recent, Femto.  The question this leaves, though, is this:  Who were the 4 (or 5) angels who brought about the fall of Gaiseric's kingdom?  It seems likely that Void is one of them, at the very least...

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The "rumors" are very versatile  . The rumor that Im fond of says that Void was the first of the newest batch of God Hand. The old 5 consisted of Gaiseric and 4 unknowns. As history is repeating itself now, I assume it did for Gaiseric too. But of cource, this is all just speculation.

Hmm... intriguing.  However, this doesn't explain why Skully and Guts are "sufferers" of the same fate, as Flora stated.  Guts was definitely no God-Hander.

Maybe the current four God-Hand have been around since the beginning, and every 200 or so years they use the crimson beherit to gain a fifth digit for a while?  Once the fifth member leaves (as Femto did), it seems that 200 years later they'd be free to have another.  *shrug*

I guess it's also possible that Skully was a fifth member for a while... *ponders*

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Olivier Hague

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2002, 03:00:24 AM »
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That seems like a pretty big "if"...  is there something that suggests he'd be the last?

Well, apart from that...
"N... God Hand wa ichiô, Femto de owari ni suru yotei dewa imasu."
Miura, Berserk Illustration File (page 114)
^^

Offline Graywords

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2002, 03:13:13 AM »
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Well, apart from that...
"N... God Hand wa ichiô, Femto de owari ni suru yotei dewa imasu."
Miura, Berserk Illustration File (page 114)

LOL... sonna koto wa hayaku ie yo!  Mattaku  :P  ;D  Thanks for the clarification.

Well... do you think the current four God Hand were around 1000 years ago, and had different fifth members at different intervals?  Or do you think the current four came about one by one over the past four eclipses?  I know there's not enough evidence for anything to be certain, but give us an honest Olivier opinion.  ^_-
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Spike

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2002, 01:01:05 AM »
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...The rumor that Im fond of says that Void was the first of the newest batch of God Hand. The old 5 consisted of Gaiseric and 4 unknowns. As history is repeating itself now, I assume it did for Gaiseric too...


 That's a nice rumor ;)  But if Void were the first of the "new batch" of Godhand, then that would mean that the erstwhile Godhand somehow got replaced.  If that's the case, then being a Godhand "member" isn't a permanent vocation?  What would have happened to the previous four and Gaiseric (assuming he's not Skull Knight  :-*)?  

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"N... God Hand wa ichiô, Femto de owari ni suru yotei dewa imasu."
Miura, Berserk Illustration File (page 114)


Translation please ;D

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sonna koto wa hayaku ie yo!


Another translation is needed--I've only taken one semester of Japanese...(damn me and my abyssmal aptness for Japanese!!!)


Offline Walter

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2002, 02:01:40 AM »
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Hmm... intriguing.  However, this doesn't explain why Skully and Guts are "sufferers" of the same fate, as Flora stated.  Guts was definitely no God-Hander.

'In my theory':
Void sacrificed Gaiseric's empire, and an emporer is a part of that empire, isn't he? Guts lost the Hawks to a God Hand's sacrifice, Gaiseric lost his empire to a God Hand's sacrifice.

Its just a little different take on what it means to 'suffer'.

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 That's a nice rumor ;)  But if Void were the first of the "new batch" of Godhand, then that would mean that the erstwhile Godhand somehow got replaced.  If that's the case, then being a Godhand "member" isn't a permanent vocation?  What would have happened to the previous four and Gaiseric (assuming he's not Skull Knight  :-*)?  

'In my theory':
There was a battle between the 4 remaining God Hand and Gaiseric, this could be viewed as 4 or 5 angels destroying the city. What happened to them? I don't want to speculate further than: *poof*. Gaiseric, on the verge of death, went to the leader of the Elves (flora?), and was granted life as an agent against Idea.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Spike

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2002, 11:49:20 PM »
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'In my theory':
Void sacrificed Gaiseric's empire, and an emporer is a part of that empire, isn't he?


 Then what did Gaiseric sacrifice to become apart of the Godhand (if not his kingdom)?

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'In my theory':
There was a battle between the 4 remaining God Hand and Gaiseric, this could be viewed as 4 or 5 angels destroying the city. What happened to them? I don't want to speculate further than: *poof*. Gaiseric, on the verge of death, went to the leader of the Elves (flora?), and was granted life as an agent against Idea.


Would this happen before or after Void becomes a member of the Godhand?  If it's before, then why would Void have a crimson Beherit to begin with (the Godhand is already complete)? As for speculation on the *poof*;  the former members of the Godhand couldn't just disappear could they?  Maybe you could amend the theory to the 5 "angels" were actually the current Godhand (Ubik, Conrad, Slan) including Gaiseric.  They got into a quarrel and Gaiseric got exiled from the Godhand like Napoleon from France...but instead of seeing elves, he contracts syphillis and goes crazy;  So he actually thinks he's a skeleton when in fact he's a semiomnipotent being with VD, (you may omit the last part if you want).  This however preempts the question to why does Void appear to be the "superior" of the Godhand...I'm hungry...
   
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Walter

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2002, 12:11:57 AM »
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 Then what did Gaiseric sacrifice to become apart of the Godhand (if not his kingdom)?

There's always the thorn-crested rose to be explained  ;)
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Would this happen before or after Void becomes a member of the Godhand?  If it's before, then why would Void have a crimson Beherit to begin with (the Godhand is already complete)?

Why shouldn't he have it? We're dealing with causality here, not science.

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As for speculation on the *poof*;  the former members of the Godhand couldn't just disappear could they?  Maybe you could amend the theory to the 5 "angels" were actually the current Godhand (Ubik, Conrad, Slan) including Gaiseric.

But... a new God Hand is born every 216 years, and if you count backwards from the current time, that just wouldn't work. Also, Skully said that the once in 1000 year rebirth happens.... well once in every 1000 years. If you count backwards, it works only if Gaiseric's rule lasted 200+/- years.... oh fine, here:

1082 Griffith is reborn (empire is formed)
1080 Griffiths entry into god hand
0864 Conrad
0648 Slann
0432 Ubik
0216 Void (214 years into Gaiseics empire, it is sacrificed for Voids entry)
0002    Gaiserics rebirth (empire is formed)
0000    Gaiserics entry into God Hand
-216 God Hand 4
-432 God Hand 3
-648 God Hand 2
-864 God Hand 1
-1080............ ...... ..Olivier/Miura is born

Honestly, I don't have nearly as much faith in this theory as I used to, but its still a possibility (math wise).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Majin Tenshi

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2002, 09:42:31 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I had gotten the impression that Griffith/Femto was special.  That Idea had gone to perticular efforts in order to get Griffith.  Like he was different from the other godhand, past and present.  (lost chapter, where griffith talks to Idea)  
This said, there may be no need for new godhands again.  
I propose that Griffith absorbed the crimson Beherit.

As for the trend this thread has taken, I can't comment as I'm a newbie to berserk.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline Vermillion

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2002, 10:22:40 AM »
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1082 Griffith is reborn (empire is formed)
1080 Griffiths entry into god hand
0864 Conrad
0648 Slann
0432 Ubik
0216 Void (214 years into Gaiseics empire, it is sacrificed for Voids entry)
0002    Gaiserics rebirth (empire is formed)
0000    Gaiserics entry into God Hand
-216 God Hand 4
-432 God Hand 3
-648 God Hand 2
-864 God Hand 1
-1080............ ...... ..Olivier/Miura is born

Honestly, I don't have nearly as much faith in this theory as I used to, but its still a possibility (math wise).


hmm interesting! So who gonna be the new Void....Guts?? Is he capable(ethics-wise) of sacrificing an entire empire formed by Griffith.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Walter

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2002, 11:15:47 PM »
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hmm interesting! So who gonna be the new Void....Guts?? Is he capable(ethics-wise) of sacrificing an entire empire formed by Griffith.

I don't think it will come to that. Continuing my theory, I think Griffith will follow through with Gaiseric's mistake, which would explain why Skullknight is being hesitant to take action against him. However, I do NOT think that there will be another '1000 years' after the current one. God hand/Idea must fall for there to be a true conclusion to the series.

And yes, Majin Tenshi, I also believe Griffith to be 'special' in the scheme of things.  8) I'm just not ballsy enough to specifically comment on to what end, because I'd be going WAY out on a limb.
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Offline Graywords

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2002, 12:21:53 AM »
So... you don't think Void has always been the boss?  His presence seems to suggest to me that he's been in control the whole time, but of course there's no way to say for sure...  If that's the case I think Void is the one who started the whole God Hand business... specifically how, Miura only knows. o.O  We can only hope he explains it to some end, eventually...

Perhaps Void distributed his powers to three or four of his followers, and they were all slaughtered in a battle with Gaiseric.  *shrug*  Then perhaps poor lonely Void sent out his trusted follower Herbie the Beherit to go and find him new God Hand members.  Of course it would've sucked waiting for 216 years first... :p

Speculative as ever,

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Spike

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Re: Herbie the Beherit
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2002, 03:08:00 AM »
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There's always the thorn-crested rose to be explained  ;)


touche! (accents over the u and e...)

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Why shouldn't he have it? We're dealing with causality here, not science.


 Yes, but causality would suggest that once something is complete (the Godhand), there wouldn't be need to "scout" other prospective candidates.  This could possibly (wild speculation) explain why there were only four Godhand "members" when Griffith became one.  Because "Idea" favored and looked at Griffith adventitiously, it manipulated fate to create a "vacancy in the Godhand department".  Summing up, maybe "Idea" purposely wanted a spot for Griffith on the Godhand, so it simply manipulated fate to "fire" one of the erstwhile members, and (through the fortune-teller) gave Griffith a crimson Beherit to fill the "void"...(I couldn't think of a better word  ::) ).

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1082 Griffith is reborn (empire is formed)
1080 Griffiths entry into god hand
0864 Conrad
0648 Slann
0432 Ubik
0216 Void (214 years into Gaiseics empire, it is sacrificed for Voids entry)
0002    Gaiserics rebirth (empire is formed)
0000    Gaiserics entry into God Hand
-216 God Hand 4
-432 God Hand 3
-648 God Hand 2
-864 God Hand 1
-1080............ ...... ..Olivier/Miura is born


heeheehee...I was too lazy to do any math in my previous post...but I am impressed.  There's definitely a congruity; but until more is explained about the Godhand...I'm not guesstimating nor touchin' that with a twelve ft. pole ;)