Author Topic: Episode 271  (Read 46116 times)

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Offline QUeeN typhonblue

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #125 on: March 27, 2006, 11:28:32 PM »
I think you've misunderstood Berserk's Qliphoth.  It was in existence before Griffith's reincarnation (thus before the God Hand could have "corrupted" it).  It's the Astral realm where Nightmare Creatures gather and are created.  It wasn't some happy forest where creatures lived in peace before the God Hand came along and crapped all over it.  The only change that's occurred over the past few years is that the barrier between the worlds is growing thinner (i.e. Trolls. Ogre and Kelpie in Enoch).

That being said, I'd buy your theory if it were less weighed down with Kabbalistic terminology. If by "corruption" and "creating more Qliphoth" you mean that the barrier between the Physical and Astral worlds will continue to become thinner, then, why not just say so?

As for a balanced God Hand... are you talking about a GOOD Hand?  :void:

When I get the relevant volumes(with the official translations) I might feel capable of more extensive comment. As it stands I read those episodes related to the Qliphoth years ago and I've probably forgotten more then I remember.

As for "creating more Qliphoth"... maybe a better way of saying it would be "manifesting more Qliphoth in the material realm."


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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #126 on: March 27, 2006, 11:48:42 PM »
As for "creating more Qliphoth"... maybe a better way of saying it would be "manifesting more Qliphoth in the material realm."
Wait, how are those statements different? What I was saying was that the Qliphoth is a specific place, not a "type" of place.  What purpose would multiples serve? An army of Schnoz' (Schnii?)
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #127 on: March 28, 2006, 12:00:58 AM »
Wow what a read, I need to search through the forums for most of the stuff Aazealh and QUeen typhonblue are talking about.  Both of you are too well researched. :serpico:

An army of Schnoz' (Schnii?)

It will be glorious! :griff:


Offline QUeeN typhonblue

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #128 on: March 28, 2006, 12:41:51 AM »
Well, I don't really consider her to be a more eminent source than older texts. It still stands that the Sephiroth and the Qliphoth are distinct entities. Like twins, one good and one evil. But whatever.

What sources is this from? I'm asking because the sources I've read have them both as two aspects (or sides) of the same thing.

And, if you really get technical, the conceptual opposition is between the tree of life and the tree of knowledge rather then the Sephiroth and the Qliphoth. (Sort of like indifference being the opposite of both hate and love which are two sides of the same coin.) So you have Geburah as catabolism and Chesed as anabolism, for example. And Geburah's Qliphoth is the excess of catabolism, Chesed's Qliphoth is the excess of anabolism.

Further, I read that the Qliphoth are the husks of the Sephiroth. Like dead cells or the skeleton of a living thing.

Quote
I don't think so, no. Actually, that seems extremely unlikely. It just doesn't correspond to the way it's described in the manga.

Well, like I said, I'll have to wait for the official translation before I comment. Although it looks like the Dark Horse translations aren't exactly devoid of error. :\

How is Qliphoth translated into Japanese, btw? And I looked over the translations available on this site and you're right, according to them it sounds like Miura is refering to the Qliphoth as one single place... Although, maybe what he's implying is that the Qliphoth visted by Guts and posse is the manifestation of Lilith on earth(Malkuth) and the other Qliphoth are too abstract to have any physical counter-part.

Or maybe as the astral realm manifests into the physical plane each Sephiroth/Qliphoth will "spill out" into the material world. (Sounds gross.) And that's the only one that's currently available to be visited.

Anyway, it's been nice chatting with you. You are very learned in areas where I am not.

To Walter,

Each Qliphoth represents a particular type of evil and associated with one of the seven hells. So you have Lilith and Gamaliel(Gehanna)... rape, corruption and prostitution. Samael(Shadow of Death)... Falsity, etc. So each Qliphoth could be responsible for spilling out a new evil(and new race of demons) into the world.


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Offline Wereallmad

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #129 on: March 28, 2006, 01:34:39 AM »
What constitutes an "offical translation"?

Miura is not translating Berserk. Darkhorse is, and their translation is still completetly interpretive. Infact, literal translation of Japanese to english is impossible because the etymology of Japanese words is so unique. In and all attempts at translation would be subject to the same confusion that amateur translators suffer from. Of course, some interpretations are much more 'accurate' than others, but it's always subjective. I wouldn't put much faith in DarkHorse's translation.

Offline Jhot obs

Re: Episode 271
« Reply #130 on: March 28, 2006, 05:04:46 AM »

Bring it.
Kick ass emoticon Wally.  :badbone:

After viewing this episode again, I'm thinking Daiba may try something against Guts' companions next episode after seeing Guts save them at the end. Or at least he knows a weakness Guts has that'll be useful if he still can't land a blow on him. With Guts in complete control of himself now, I hope Schierke keeps communicating with him so they can try and find a weakness in Daiba. I think back to when Schierke squinted to get a better view of Daiba through Guts' berserk vision and I'm thinking if there's going to be an astral battle between Daiba and her, she better find a tangible way to get to him. As of now, I'm not sure if Daiba's even using an astral body.

It'll be most interesting to see Schierke's next move next month.

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #131 on: March 28, 2006, 09:41:18 AM »
I'm still waiting for Miura to email me back about what color the armor actually is. I won't be ignored, damn it! BTW, nobody respond to this, there's no point in debating it; I'm just collecting my thoughts here because the board is my personal skullivejournal. Feedback is useless anyway because logic can lead to the wrong conclusion, however reasonable, that's why I only accept truth. As Sherwood Homes once wrote, "The illogical is sometimes the logical, so live long and prosper, Winston."

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #132 on: March 28, 2006, 12:34:56 PM »
What sources is this from? I'm asking because the sources I've read have them both as two aspects (or sides) of the same thing.

Well, you know what Kabbalah is about, right? The study of Jewish texts, specifically the Torah. The Hermetic Kabbalah you affectionate is recent (started around 500 years ago) and a mix of a lot of things, including the Corpus Hermeticum (related to Hermes Trimegistus, from Egypt), neo-platonism, renaissance humanism, christianity, etc. That's why its interpretations can vastly differ from other views of the Kabbalah and aren't to be considered truer or more relevant than the others. Some even doubt it's legitimacy, but that's not really important here. If you want to learn more about it, I can only recommend you to read books on the subject, I can't summarize 1500 years of mysticism on a forum just like that. Besides like I said I'm not a Kabbalah scholar, far from it.

And, if you really get technical, the conceptual opposition is between the tree of life and the tree of knowledge rather then the Sephiroth and the Qliphoth. (Sort of like indifference being the opposite of both hate and love which are two sides of the same coin.)

Not necessarily, no. The Zohar says evil is born from the primordial separation between these 2 trees. But apart from that, the Sephiroth and the Qliphoth are often described as opposing themselves (the two notions aren't conflicting), it's just a matter of interpretation, once again. The Qliphoth are even called the "Tree of Death", itself an expression of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (that fits occult and satanist views the most, but also Hermetic concepts). The problem here like I said is that Kabbalah isn't a strict collection of documents with definite notions, there are almost always several ways to view the same thing. Kabbalah can even explain evil without the existence of the Qliphoth, as part of the Tree of Life (the "female side" would be evil).

Further, I read that the Qliphoth are the husks of the Sephiroth. Like dead cells or the skeleton of a living thing.

Actually, the word Qliphah itself means "husk" or "shell". It's a reference to the fact that the Sephiroh are themselves shells, recipients, that encapsulate the light of God. There's no simple or exact definition for the Qliphoth in Kabbalah because it's based on a monotheistic religion (Judaism) where there is a God but no "Devil". Explaining why evil exists therefore becomes tough. The Qliphoth can be viewed as shells containing no light and thus representing darkness, or in the case where the Sephiroth are concentric circles encapsulating each other the Qliphoth can be the last, outer one. Then there's the concept (that you mentioned) of the Qliphoth being the result of the Sephiroth having an imbalanced, unstable period at the time of creation, some others just see them as opposites and totally averse, etc. Finally there's the combination of Kabbalah with medieval legends that yielded what you talked about earlier: demons ruled by Samael and Lilith, with 10 Qliphoth being 10 distinct evil emanations equalling the 10 Sephiroth.

There's other stuff I didn't cite but my point is really that you could interpret it in 10 different ways and that it'd still be correct, at least to some people. What should be considered carefully though is the mix between interpretations, I don't think that kind of bastardization holds much relevance.

Although it looks like the Dark Horse translations aren't exactly devoid of error. :\

Yeah, they aren't. However there are some people here that are quite reliable for stuff like this, maybe you put more faith in them. :carcus:

How is Qliphoth translated into Japanese, btw?

クリフォト.

Although, maybe what he's implying is that the Qliphoth visted by Guts and posse is the manifestation of Lilith on earth(Malkuth) and the other Qliphoth are too abstract to have any physical counter-part. Or maybe as the astral realm manifests into the physical plane each Sephiroth/Qliphoth will "spill out" into the material world. (Sounds gross.) And that's the only one that's currently available to be visited.

No, I don't think so. Like I said, it just doesn't sound like it from the way it's presented to the reader.

Well, it's been quite a discussion, but I'd really like to get back to more concrete Berserk stuff now if you don't mind, because we're really just debating esoteric concepts here. I think I've reached the limit of my knowledge of Kabbalah anyway, I'd have to re-read books on the topic to give you more details.

After viewing this episode again, I'm thinking Daiba may try something against Guts' companions next episode after seeing Guts save them at the end. Or at least he knows a weakness Guts has that'll be useful if he still can't land a blow on him.

First, thanks for trying to re-center the discussion on the episode. Second, while this would indeed be a smart move, I have the feeling that Daiba won't be able to keep his eyes off Guts for long if he wants to stay alive. Concentrating on the others may give Guts enough time to cut him in half, and we've yet to see whether he can attack without using the sea or not (otherwise they could get away from the pier). I could definitely see him throw some Pishacha or Daka at them though, to put some pressure on Guts. Other than that, Serpico might come to his senses and try something on his own this time. After all he can easily jump around like Guts did in this episode, and he doesn't need to come close to Daiba to attack him. It might be interesting in a "re-enactment of his battle with the Kelpie" sort of way: water vs wind. Of course, a combined attack (Guts and Serpico) would be awesome too.

With Guts in complete control of himself now, I hope Schierke keeps communicating with him so they can try and find a weakness in Daiba.

Yeah, I can't see that happening. If she doesn't have to ensure Guts doesn't die anymore she might be able to concentrate on the enemy. I wonder whether she'll be able to stay in the armor or not now that Guts is himself again though.

I think back to when Schierke squinted to get a better view of Daiba through Guts' berserk vision and I'm thinking if there's going to be an astral battle between Daiba and her, she better find a tangible way to get to him. As of now, I'm not sure if Daiba's even using an astral body.

He doesn't look like he's leaving his body, reacting to what happens and all, or he's coming back to it very quickly each time. An astral battle would be neat, but I wonder if she'd be able to defeat him with the darkness that covered him and all. It'll be interesting in any case.

Offline QuestionMark

Re: Episode 271
« Reply #133 on: March 28, 2006, 02:58:18 PM »
I just wanted to say that that conversation was fascinating and, IMO at least, really worth its time in this thread.  I'm sure some might think otherwise, which is cool, but I often wish discussions that went beyond the mechanics of the episode, and into "deeper", more philosophical/religous/cultural interpretations of Berserk happened more often.  When they do happen, I love it, and it's exactly why I keep coming back to this board.  It _is_ great to have such well-learned people around.

As for whether Berserk was directly influenced by things like Kabalah (did I even spell that right?), Jung, Vedic texts, etc.-- I just want to say that, from a literary stand point (and this is just one perspective of course), to me it often doesn't really matter what the author's intention was, OR rather, the author's intention is often not the only perspective with value on a text.  Thus, Miura may mean one thing (which we may try to figure out, or whatever), but he might also be creating something that creates a life beyond his own intentions.  What I'm really trying to say is that I think other interpretations of what is going on in Berserk (influences, interpretations, etc.) can be just as valid whether or not Miura meant them to be interpreted that way.  Now, that doesn't mean all interpretations are made equally, but I'm glad people like Aaz and Typhon are out there putting their twist on the Miura universe-- it just makes reading Berserk that much more interesting.

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #134 on: March 29, 2006, 05:17:15 AM »
I just wanted to say that that conversation was fascinating and, IMO at least, really worth its time in this thread.  I'm sure some might think otherwise, which is cool, but I often wish discussions that went beyond the mechanics of the episode, and into "deeper", more philosophical/religous/cultural interpretations of Berserk happened more often.  When they do happen, I love it, and it's exactly why I keep coming back to this board.  It _is_ great to have such well-learned people around.

I'll toast to that

I could definitely see him throw some Pishacha or Daka at them though, to put some pressure on Guts.

And crocs.  Don't forget the crocs :troll:

I'm wondering what kind of techniques Guts will use against Daiba now that he's got his head back on his shoulders.  It's seems clear that a full frontal attack on on Daiba isn't an option (unless he manages to dodge all of his magic attacks), so perhaps Guts will use more clever tactics, especially considering Daiba's floating rather high on a ship in Makara infested waters.

Maybe as Aazealh said we'll see Serpico take part in the action as he's the only one in the party that would be useful and would seem beneficial given his agility and flying ability.  I'm interested in what will happen to Schierke.  Will she be able to stay in the armor and possibly give his some useful insight, or will she return back to her body now that Guts is no longer "berserk"?  And if Schierke were to return to her body would she whoop Daiba's ass with some magic of her own (I'd think it would have to involve Elemental summoning, though).

Hell, maybe everyone will have to rely on Puck's Spark to save the day :puck:

Offline Jhot obs

Re: Episode 271
« Reply #135 on: March 29, 2006, 05:23:20 AM »
I could definitely see him throw some Pishacha or Daka at them though, to put some pressure on Guts.
I'm actually hoping that's what's going to happen next. Daiba's ship must have something more then just rowmen, cannons and his hookah: Maybe some sort of familiar we've yet to see. Though the feeling I get from Daiba is an old man slightly impressed and amused with Guts. Of course, the foreplay's over now, so he may do something like employ Kushan mist or whatnot to try and debilitate Guts' maneuverability.

Other than that, Serpico might come to his senses and try something on his own this time. After all he can easily jump around like Guts did in this episode, and he doesn't need to come close to Daiba to attack him. It might be interesting in a "re-enactment of his battle with the Kelpie" sort of way: water vs wind. Of course, a combined attack (Guts and Serpico) would be awesome too.
I too speculate Serpico's going to play his hand into this fight. He's been analyzing Guts' action and wondering if he'll turn on him. Now that Guts has shown he can take care of them, I think it's about right if Serpico evened up the odds for their party. Daiba seems to think Guts is the only threat to him, so he doesn't know about Schierke's action towards Guts or Farnese's, Isidro's and Serpico's magical fetishes.

When you mentioned "wind vs. water" I didn't see it that way, but the more I think about it, the more I hope Serpico plays a prominent role in Daiba's downfall: he hasn't gotten a clear victory for him other then fighting hordes of beasts (trolls, dakas, tigers, crocodiles). Helping take down a big shot like Daiba will be indeed be awesome. That and I'm just tired of looking at his semi-pouty face lately and I hope something's done with him to stop that.

Yeah, I can't see that happening. If she doesn't have to ensure Guts doesn't die anymore she might be able to concentrate on the enemy. I wonder whether she'll be able to stay in the armor or not now that Guts is himself again though.
After he wiped up that tornado so quickly, she recognized him as an Eastern magician. She knows more about this type of magic, I'm sure, and I hope she sticks around in Guts' head to give him feedback directly to him so theycan form an attack plan together. That is of course, if she's still inside the armor.

He doesn't look like he's leaving his body, reacting to what happens and all, or he's coming back to it very quickly each time. An astral battle would be neat, but I wonder if she'd be able to defeat him with the darkness that covered him and all. It'll be interesting in any case.
Along with your prophesied magician battle between Daiba and Schierke, I would want the terminology Daiba refers to Guts in the berserk armor clarified. I know it's been explained in the "Translations" & "Current Episodes" boards, but in-story, it would maybe shed light to the group/Schierke some aspect of the armor.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #136 on: March 29, 2006, 05:43:54 AM »
I'm wondering if Ganishka will show himself (via his fog) during the battle against Daiba or afterwards (if Daiba is killed).

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #137 on: March 29, 2006, 12:11:33 PM »
And crocs.  Don't forget the crocs

Well, the crocodiles are Pishacha... Just like the elephants and the tigers.

I'm wondering what kind of techniques Guts will use against Daiba now that he's got his head back on his shoulders.  It's seems clear that a full frontal attack on on Daiba isn't an option (unless he manages to dodge all of his magic attacks)

Seems plausible to me, he managed to dodge his attacks in this episode, so why not once more? I even thought about him throwing the DS like he did in volume 27, but the risk of it falling into the sea would too high IMO.

I'm interested in what will happen to Schierke.  Will she be able to stay in the armor and possibly give his some useful insight, or will she return back to her body now that Guts is no longer "berserk"?  And if Schierke were to return to her body would she whoop Daiba's ass with some magic of her own (I'd think it would have to involve Elemental summoning, though).

If she returns to her body I don't think she'll be able to cast any spell, she was physically very tired in episode 269 and said she couldn't do it. Or maybe she could borrow some energy from Guts in the process or something like that. In any case it would be difficult since Daiba saw her doing before, he could attack her while she would be incantating. I thought about some more direct attack/disturbance in the astral realm like I said in my previous post, maybe to give the others enough time to take care of him. Not sure if that's feasible though.

Hell, maybe everyone will have to rely on Puck's Spark to save the day

Hey, that'd be awesome. :puck:

Daiba's ship must have something more then just rowmen, cannons and his hookah: Maybe some sort of familiar we've yet to see. Though the feeling I get from Daiba is an old man slightly impressed and amused with Guts. Of course, the foreplay's over now, so he may do something like employ Kushan mist or whatnot to try and debilitate Guts' maneuverability.

I'm not sure he's got more than just men on his ship actually, being the commander he wouldn't carry troops because having them disembark would be a bother, besides the Makara Guts killed in 269 seemed to somehow be his personal guard (the way he arrived right after Guts defeated them). It could be interesting if he used the mist, but I'm not sure that would help him all that much in this situation. He's not shown to be very mobile until now, so if he doesn't move, being hidden won't change anything as long as the group knows his position.

Daiba seems to think Guts is the only threat to him, so he doesn't know about Schierke's action towards Guts or Farnese's, Isidro's and Serpico's magical fetishes.

Yeah, I think this mix of ignorance/arrogance/confidence will be his downfall. I hope for him he's got an ace up his sleeve.

Helping take down a big shot like Daiba will be indeed be awesome. That and I'm just tired of looking at his semi-pouty face lately and I hope something's done with him to stop that.

There's also the fact that I'd like the group to start working together more, even if they're just assisting Guts. In a completely far-fetched speculation, I could even imagine Farnese sending her familiars to distract him (creeping behind him and attacking suddenly), assuming she'd be able to control them at long range (which she probably can't). :guts:

I hope she sticks around in Guts' head to give him feedback directly to him so theycan form an attack plan together. That is of course, if she's still inside the armor.

Along with your prophesied magician battle between Daiba and Schierke, I would want the terminology Daiba refers to Guts in the berserk armor clarified. I know it's been explained in the "Translations" & "Current Episodes" boards, but in-story, it would maybe shed light to the group/Schierke some aspect of the armor.

Well, the thing is that we can't have both, either she'll stay within Guts and give him instructions or she'll come out of the armor and maybe try something on her own (in conjunction with the others?). As for an explanation on the vocabulary Daiba uses, I don't think there will be any, and I doubt the group would learn anything new from it anyway.

I'm wondering if Ganishka will show himself (via his fog) during the battle against Daiba or afterwards (if Daiba is killed).

Hehe, why not. To tell the group he'll remember them or something like that. :void:

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #138 on: March 29, 2006, 12:16:49 PM »
I'm wondering if Ganishka will show himself (via his fog) during the battle against Daiba or afterwards (if Daiba is killed).

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #139 on: March 29, 2006, 05:21:12 PM »
About the vocabulary... From what I understand, he might as well be talking gibberish at them, since it seems that "Kushanese" is not universally comprehendable.  :guts: So far, nobody gave any indication of understanding Daiba's words, and Serpico stated that "he's saying something but...". In the end, even if something about the armor is revealed, I suppose the readers are the only ones who would benefit -_-

Offline Mad Angel Loki

Re: Episode 271
« Reply #140 on: March 29, 2006, 05:25:22 PM »
On the debate about the Kabalah it was very interesting but Berserk work with his own mythology and even if it refers to other mythology it's purely "allegorical"...
About Daiba I'm sure he has something else for him I mean he's an old "so" experienced wizard and Guts's little show did not impressed it that much...for me that could mean two things(at least) either he's stupid and arrogant or he is quite strong!
I would vote for the second(plus some arrogance)the fact is that we know almost nothing about him and that a lot of people seem to think that Guts will  "kick his ass"...because he manages to escape some tornados...
Since the appearance of Schierke in Berserk I always wonder how Guts would fight against a sorcerer because except during the casting time they are almost unreachable and more still for a swordman so a wizard who can cast a spell instantly is actually the worst opponent for Guts...
In other word Daiba is kinda like the "natural ennemy" of Guts  and without the help of his companions("admirers")he's doomed...IMO  :serpico:
So it's time for the gang to become useful in this fight like Aaz said(and especially Serpico)
Arf...

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #141 on: March 29, 2006, 05:54:59 PM »
In the end, even if something about the armor is revealed, I suppose the readers are the only ones who would benefit

Yeah, they can't understand it (Serpico clearly says so). But Daiba's not saying anything special about it anyway, just that it's "a berserk's armor" with other terms.

About Daiba I'm sure he has something else for him I mean he's an old "so" experienced wizard and Guts's little show did not impressed it that much...

He sure didn't keep a straight face, and he seemed quite surprised to see that Guts had killed all these troops by himself actually (and he didn't manage to finish him off after that). As for being old, that doesn't necessarily mean he's incredibly skilled... He's got some success with his first attack against a mindless Guts but that's over now, and since he's revealed his fighting style it might be harder to surprise the group. We'll soon see the depth of his ability anyway.

the fact is that we know almost nothing about him and that a lot of people seem to think that Guts will  "kick his ass"...because he manages to escape some tornados...

Looks like you're vastly underestimating Guts here. He didn't just "escape some tornadoes", he dodged all of Daiba's attacks and managed to save his friends from a falling mast. That doesn't count for nothing, and while we don't know much about Daiba like you said, we do know that he's just a subordinate of Ganishka, probably drawing his power from him.

Since the appearance of Schierke in Berserk I always wonder how Guts would fight against a sorcerer because except during the casting time they are almost unreachable

Schierke has always been far from unreachable when she was casting... Needing protection and all. Just look at what happened in 268, without Guts' intervention she would have been killed by her own magic.

PS: Remember to buy volume 30 guys, it came out today.

Offline Mage

Re: Episode 271
« Reply #142 on: March 29, 2006, 06:40:02 PM »
Guts is land-locked...like he can risk falling into the water with the armor on, which was precisely why he frantically jumped back to land (the mast only fell as Daiba destroyed the boat from which he had just jumped to land).  Daiba himself seemed frustrated, but not desperate.  I'm sure he has something else up his sleeve.  Even if not, I don't think he's stupid enough to stick around if things look bad for him.

That said, Guts was incredible this episode and who knows what he'll do.
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Offline Mad Angel Loki

Re: Episode 271
« Reply #144 on: March 29, 2006, 08:03:38 PM »
My point is not to say that Guts is weak nor that what he did in the last episode was nothing read my first post after looking at the episode i was "amazed" BUT not enough to say that he will kick Daiba's ass!
About the wizard I may have exagerated "a little bit" but the fact are that Daiba can cast spell almost instantly and we aren't sure that  he is "not mobile" so my point is that right now we don't know enough about Daiba to say that Guts "own him"...
IMO "the gang" is way too "spectator", Guts wont' beat everything alone and especially in his current state so Daiba can be the perfect way to start acting as a real team and I hope that something will force them to do so   
Arf...

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #145 on: March 29, 2006, 09:14:34 PM »
PS: Remember to buy volume 30 guys, it came out today.

I'm planning on going down to the Kunikiya Bookstore in Seattle this weekend and snagging myself volume 30, in addition to some of the more recent Japanese volumes that I don't have. :serpico:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #146 on: March 29, 2006, 09:59:10 PM »
Guts is land-locked...like he can risk falling into the water with the armor on, which was precisely why he frantically jumped back to land

He used the bodies of the Makara once, nothing says he can't do it again... And there are still sinking ships around (like the one which mast he deflected). As long as he can reach Daiba's own ship (which didn't seem to be too far away from the docks) he can cause him trouble, if only by sinking it. My point is that while he fled Daiba's attacks in this episode (he woke up as he was falling from the sky...), I doubt he (and the others) will just be doing the same in episode 272. And although Guts can't maneuver well in such a context, Daiba himself has only been using the sea up to now, if the group retreats a bit he'll have difficulties attacking them like he did. He's indeed not desperate, actually he seemed rather carefree, and like I said I think that'll be his downfall. Schierke, Guts, Serpico... Any of them could find an exploitable weakness and put it to good use.

I don't want to insist too much on the matter, I just don't think the group is helpless against Daiba, Guts included.

You mean Vol. 30, right?

Whoops, yeah, I edited that too fast (we're the 29...). Well, you get the point anyway.

not enough to say that he will kick Daiba's ass!

Well you're the one that's insisting on this right now... We aren't sure of many things, but that doesn't constitute much of an argument in itself. You're just stating the obvious here... And repeating what I said about fighting as a team. So, what do you think exactly? That Daiba will defeat the group and force them to flee? That Guts is doomed if he doesn't get help? We could always take bets about the issue of the fight if you want, in memory of xechnao. :void:

Daiba appears to be a formidable opponent, but I wouldn't give him too much credit based on what he's done so far. He's not Ganishka himself. Good for him if he's resourceful, but if he's not... Death awaits. And on a side note, I'd say the worst opponent for Guts would be Irvine, who's able to shoot arrows from a mile away.

Offline Mad Angel Loki

Re: Episode 271
« Reply #147 on: March 30, 2006, 12:44:40 AM »
I'm insisting on that point cause it's the "mood" here maybe it's just me finally ...
I wont start a "i say it before you even said it"debate but I dislike the "admirer"  attitude of the gang for quite a long time and I imagined the fight against a wizard as a good occasion to change that so...
Anyway about Guts really "doomed" maybe not(particularly thanks to his mechanical arm/cannon) but it'd be boring (for me) seeing the team just looking at him(because of the previous statement)...
BTW I recommend not to take my words litterally and in fact I hoped that I wouldn't need to say that...I maybe wrong finally  :serpico:
I take the comparison with Xechnao as an offense  :puck: I(hope)I'm not that blind!
Arf...

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 271
« Reply #148 on: March 30, 2006, 01:07:18 AM »
I'm insisting on that point cause it's the "mood" here maybe it's just me finally ...

I don't think there's a specific mood like that, hence my comment on it. If you want my opinion, just don't focus yourself on that kind of things, it's useless. Instead you could concentrate on explaining why you think Daiba could pose the group a bigger threat than some expect for example (or speculate about his skills), that'd be interesting to read.

I wont start a "i say it before you even said it"debate

You can if you want, you'd better have posted it 2 years ago though. :carcus:

Anyway about Guts really "doomed" maybe not(particularly thanks to his mechanical arm/cannon) but it'd be boring (for me) seeing the team just looking at him(because of the previous statement)...

Cannon or not, he's been in tighter situations... And there was a point to his confrontation with Daiba. Besides, don't forget that no matter how much experience and magical equipment they have, no one in the group is as prepared to that sort of situation as he is. It's normal for them not to be on his level yet, it would completely downgrade his merit if they were. That being said, they've worked together well in the past, even in recent episodes, and I also expect them to this time.

BTW I recommend not to take my words litterally and in fact I hoped that I wouldn't need to say that...I maybe wrong finally

So should I interpret all of what you say figuratively? Sorry but that's asking a bit much man, I just go by what you write. It's up to you to properly convey what you want to say.

Offline Mad Angel Loki

Re: Episode 271
« Reply #149 on: March 30, 2006, 02:14:18 AM »
The problem with Daiba and Kushan generally is that we deon't know much about them and more still about the wizards so I can only speculate...doing so I will speak about the experience wich is something very important for me and I already said it but  he is an old general of Ganishka so he must be experienced...
About his powers I dunno how magic work but my logic is the less time is take the weakest a spell is...so if he can cast the tornado so quick it must be one of his weakest spell so the strongest one must be terrifying,moreover Daiba was still "playing" with Guts and was surely underestimating him but the moment he'll think that Guts is a real treat for his life he will take him seriously...and use all his grampy tricks to survive :carcus:
About the gang...at the end of the episode Guts did the impossible to save them and that was really cool and this is the problem because Guts cannot care about them in this kind of fight so Daiba who don't seem to be someone caring for "honor" can even use them against Guts...so if they want to survive they'll have to do something "there is no spectator on a warfield"sound Guts-ish to me :guts:
Finally if our sorcerer is really in a bad position he can certainly call Daka(s?) to support him,and stressing Guts and the gang...maybe to escape
Those are the points that let me think that Daiba will survive this fight I don't say win but just survive
On the other hand Schierke being sucked by the armor seem a good point for me she'd be useless in her own body but in Guts's mind she can(and already)help Guts to regain consciousness and even give him some advices
Serpico could be a good help for Guts,he can fly and all but even if he is a clever guy he's proved he could be careless against the Makara on the beach!
The overall is not bad but IMO they won't kill Daiba because it must be Griffith that achieve him  after a lil' chat with Daiba saying that a BlackSwordsman hurt him blablabla it's really farfetched but who know...
That's all for tonight
Arf...