Guts Most Skilled Fight

I was thinking, with all the Beast stuff that's going on recently, Guts' skills as a fighter seem to be takign a backseat to his blind rage. Of course, witht he most recent episode, that seems to be changing, but nevertheless, I wanted to open up a discussion about his most skilled fight. I am defining skill here more in terms of guile and wit than swordhandling I suppose, but of course, the latter can be included as well in the equation.

For me, I think his most skilled fight was with Wyald.

ponder, discuss...

I think his recent spar with Serpico has shown that Guts still has what it takes... skill, reflexes, battle sense. It was a short fight, but long enough for Guts to show off a bit. Of course, Serpico can't really stand up to Guts, even though he's no pushover.

Guts isn't stupid, of course, and he comes up with interesting strategies; yet he's more about power than about wit - or so I think. But to go by your own definition, I think the last really interesting "skilled" fight was against the fake apostles / angels at the eclipse. Especially using the cannon to attack when there is no line of retreat.

the most skilled was in episode 01 of volume 01, when he was having intercourse with that apostle.

Zodd II. Guts relied very heavily on his skill as a swordsman to parry and dodge Zodds onslaught, in which he was cleverly and skillfully able to find just enough time to take one of the swords on the hill to stab him in the midsection. All without taking any real damage. He was also holding his own alright with Zodd up until Casca's interference.

Against a human opponent, I'd say Silatt (both 1st and 2nd encounter) he was facing a completely unorthodox fighter that he (most likely) never encountered, yet used his keen insight and superior agility to avoid succumbing to his bizzare array of weapons

Knight o' Skeleton said:

Zodd II. Guts relied very heavily on his skill as a swordsman to parry and dodge Zodds onslaught, in which he was cleverly and skillfully able to find just enough time to take one of the swords on the hill to stab him in the midsection. All without taking any real damage. He was also holding his own alright with Zodd up until Casca's interference.

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I must agree, that’s just a awesome battle that shows how skilled Guts is as a swordsman. Actually its my favourite battle

Knight  o' Skeleton said:

Zodd II.    Guts relied very heavily on his skill as a swordsman to parry and dodge Zodds onslaught, in which he was cleverly and skillfully able to find just enough time to take one of the swords on the hill to stab him in the midsection.  All without taking any real damage.  He was also holding his own alright with Zodd up until Casca's interference.

Against a human opponent, I'd say Silatt (both 1st and 2nd encounter)  he was facing a completely unorthodox fighter that he (most likely) never encountered, yet used his keen insight and superior agility to avoid succumbing to his bizzare array of weapons

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I also agree with this if were talking about his swordsmanship, but I think the eclipse shows just how much of a brutally skillful warrior he is. Finding anything he can and using it to the fullest despite not having his trusty sword around.. that takes mad skill.

Zodd II. as well :)

2nd most skilled has to be the 100 man fight

zooty said:

Zodd II. as well :)

2nd most skilled has to be the 100 man fight

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I personally think that the first fight with Holy See's Holy Iron Chain Knights comes second, Guts is seriously wounded and cant focus, still he manage to slay a bunch of knights and holdoff Azan. Man that fight was incredibly, even if it was short.

I'm going to have to follow the bandwagon on this one. Zodd II. I mean, the human eye couldn't even follow their speed and he stayed up with Zodd. Impressive young one.


- C

C said:

I'm going to have to follow the bandwagon on this one. Zodd II. I mean, the human eye couldn't even follow their speed and he stayed up with Zodd. Impressive young one. 


- C

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Yeah, this battle is certianly one of the most notable, especially when Guts manages to impale Zodd with an errant sword using his foot. There are just so many battles to consider! What I liked about his fight with Wyald, though, was that it lasted so long, and Guts had it so brutally calculated on the fly. For example, it seems as if he waits till Wyald is just about to rape Casca before severing his penis. This is also before Guts had many of the tools now at his disposal: the DS, arm cannon, and the repeating crossbow (I'm not sure if he was using knives at this point though). This was also a bonafide apostle, and a fairly strong one at that. Yeah, Zodd, ripped him apart at the end, when he was already close to death, but he and Zodd were fairly close in stature and perhaps strength--Wyald seemed to rely more on brute strength than skill though, unlike Zodd, who I think we can say possesses both. Nevetheless, this opponent for Guts at the time was truly awesome. And Guts wasn't spared--like in his first and second battles with Zodd--of a fight to its mortal end.
The eclipse was just amazing though too, as others have intimated. All in all, man!, it's hard to say, I admit, as to what his most skilled fight is. I'd say on revision it's probably the eclipse, but I'm also really biased toward Wyald, of course.

egg of the king said:

I'm not sure if he was using knives at this point though

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He didn't, just his sword and a dagger. Also, while Wyald had respectable physical strength for an apostle, I don't think it equalled Zodd's.

Concerning Guts' most skilled fight, I can't decide myself. I just like too many of them and they all needed skills.

Aazealh said:

He didn't, just his sword and a dagger. Also, while Wyald had respectable physical strength for an apostle, I don't think it equalled Zodd's.

Concerning Guts' most skilled fight, I can't decide myself. I just like too many of them and they all needed skills.

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Yeah, I don't think Wyald's strength equals Zodd's, but I believe--at least on the ground--they were pretty close, quoting myself:
"Yeah, Zodd, ripped him apart at the end, when he was already close to death, but he and Zodd were fairly close in stature and perhaps strength--Wyald seemed to rely more on brute strength than skill."

Yeah, I like too many of them too, but, dispensing with the futility of tryign to figure it out scientifically or objectively, I think it's interesting to see the reasons why forum members think this or that fight was the most "skilled". Take for example, the Adon fight that one poster mentions--I would have never thought of that. Though I disgree, it made me remember the fight to begin with and give it another read. I want to hear more unanticipated favorites, and equally unanticipated answers as to why they hold a promontory distinction in people's eyes.

Well, I don´t find it exactly the most skilled, but maybe the most inhuman battle that Guts has ever had... the one against Grunbeld. It is obious that Guts was in totally insane battle capabilities because of the Berserk armor (since he was cutting Apostles like butter with a knife) but just looking at the things he did with the weight of the Dragonslayer, his broken (and also auto-repaired) right arm, all the blood loss he had and fighting the way he did against Grunbeld in his apostle form just left me...

Obiously the consecuences were the worst (I think the white hair Guts now has is because he aged prematurely because of the inhuman over-efford he did by using the armor) but that battle was definately worth of it...

Yami no Tsubasa said:

I think the white hair Guts now has is because he aged prematurely because of the inhuman over-efford he did by using the armor

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It's definitely because of his extreme condition in the armor at the time, but it's not about aging prematurely. If it was the case it would concern all his hair and not just a patch, what we have here is more like a depigmentation (see the references about hair turning white in myths and legends). That was discussed lengthily in the past if you're interested, you can find more on the topic in old threads.

That really depends on what you mean by skilled. If it's just sword skills then I reckon i'd have to be his second fight with Zodd on the hill of swords, no question.
If it includes tactics and what not..... Roshinu? He pulled some pretty tricky shit off when they were fighting then. With avoiding her poison dust by burning everything among other things to raise the odds in his favour.

Sparnage said:

If it includes tactics and what not..... Roshinu? He pulled some pretty tricky shit off when they were fighting then. With avoiding her poison dust by burning everything among other things to raise the odds in his favour.

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Certainly, it was also one of the most inhuman battles Guts has ever had... and not to mention the tecnique he used to turn off the fire... by those times Guts didn´t need from the Berserk armor, the rage caused by the beast was simply overwhelming...

Yami no Tsubasa said:

Certainly, it was also one of the most inhuman battles Guts has ever had... and not to mention the tecnique he used to turn off the fire... by those times Guts didn´t need from the Berserk armor, the rage caused by the beast was simply overwhelming...

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yeah, i thought Guts was cooler before the armor

Yami no Tsubasa said:

Certainly, it was also one of the most inhuman battles Guts has ever had... and not to mention the tecnique he used to turn off the fire... by those times Guts didn´t need from the Berserk armor, the rage caused by the beast was simply overwhelming...

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It's basically the same difference. And an arbitrary comparison, especially since Guts was in fit condition fighting an emotional little girl instead of mortally wounded fighting a Dragon.

The Blue Daemon said:

yeah, i thought Guts was cooler before the armor

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If you're going to use the word "thought" make sure to follow up at some point with word "because". Otherwise, it's just a random opinion. You could think he was cooler before the armor just because you thought he looked better. So, how about why?

I hope it's not some romantic notion of mind over matter and Guts' prevailing with his willpower alone! That much hasn't even changed. If anything, that's even more important than ever. Guts hasn't become part of the steroids era, I hope. =)

P.S. If you really did think he just looked cooler, my bad.

"Griffith No More!" said:

It's basically the same difference. And an arbitrary comparison, especially since Guts was in fit condition fighting an emotional little girl instead of mortally wounded fighting a Dragon.

If you're going to use the word "thought" make sure to follow up at some point with word "because". Otherwise, it's just a random opinion. You could think he was cooler before the armor just because you thought he looked better. So, how about why?

I hope it's not some romantic notion of mind over matter and Guts' prevailing with his willpower alone! That much hasn't even changed. If anything, that's even more important than ever. Guts hasn't become part of the steroids era, I hope. =)

P.S. If you really did think he just looked cooler, my bad.

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good point. I thought he was cooler in the sense that he seemed more vulnerable. In the sense that the stakes seemed higher to me sans armor. There's no way that he looked cooler without the armor. Most definitely the armor makes him look cooler, but IMO, now he just seems to fantastical, not real enough.

The Blue Daemon said:

good point. I thought he was cooler in the sense that he seemed more vulnerable. In the sense that the stakes seemed higher to me sans armor. There's no way that he looked cooler without the armor. Most definitely the armor makes him look cooler, but IMO, now he just seems to fantastical, not real enough.

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Well said. And while I'd agree it's more certainly more fantastical, I'd counter that I see Guts as more vulnerable than ever now;  internally and externally. The very act of continuing his quest and wearing the armor is literally killing him. His struggle to fight monsters without becoming one is harder, more pronounced, and more literal than ever before. Just by wearing the armor he's putting his life on the line. And if he fails in any regard, not only does he die, but Casca and all of his friends will die as well, possibly at his own hand. The stakes have never been higher.

For the first time in his life, he's had to deal with his body truly failing him. Without the armor, he's confined to bed rest. With it, he's only making himself worse. The armor only empowers Guts as much as it cripples him. After he first used it, he was in a coma and then out of commision for almost a month, coming in and out of consciousness, and coughing up blood (the blood not spraying from his other wounds). He's literally a prisoner in his own body.

When I think of Guts being ridiculously strong, I don't think of him in the armor, I think of the headstrong, robust Guts we haven't seen since Slan tagged him in volume 25. That was the guy who would take on anything. Now he's somewhat of a tired, broken, old man before his time. Living on borrowed time, as a matter of fact.

While I love the old way, I probably wouldn't as much now if Guts had just continued on and on in such fashion, and that wouldn't have been very realistic, either. I think the reason Miura portrayed Guts so clearly in his prime in volume 25, defeating all comers, was to contrast that with what's become of him now. Anyway, there's a lot more that could be said about this than I can here, and although I love the old Guts, I find all of this and how he will have deal with it far more interesting than if Miura had continued to maintain the status quo.

Certainly... no one can deny that Guts it`s passing by a very hard moment, what I said was not precisely a comparison but just an observation between what he was and what he is now.

Like you have already said... it was easier for the old Guts to take on anything before wearing the armor (less risks, more control, no worries) but now he is more than limited by the very same armor, not to mention that he can`t even enter on rage state because it helps the Beast of Darkness to take control and destroy even more his already broken body... and now that this is mentioned, I was wondering if the use of this armor (wich I consider to be a heavy burden) is really helping him, or if he will find a way to control it in the future (maybe with the help of Schierke) ? of course I can`t deny the benefits it gives to him, but by the other hand, the armor is taking Guts closer to his death by every fight he has.

A fight that I think shows Guts' skills pretty early on is his fight against the newly transformed Zondark. When Zondark used his halberd as a whip and Guts carefully deflected each one and counterattacked showed Puck (and us) that he isn't just swinging his sword around wildly.

"Griffith No More!" said:

While I love the old way, I probably wouldn't as much now if Guts had just continued on and on in such fashion, and that wouldn't have been very realistic, either. I think the reason Miura portrayed Guts so clearly in his prime in volume 25, defeating all comers, was to contrast that with what's become of him now. Anyway, there's a lot more that could be said about this than I can here, and although I love the old Guts, I find all of this and how he will have deal with it far more interesting than if Miura had continued to maintain the status quo.

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I absolutely agree. I miss Guts as a man taking on demons and hundreds of men with just his will to survive, but he's been put through too much to realistically go on without some help. The times he's fought Zodd, while incredible, were pretty much at Zodd's whim and could be ended at any moment by changing into the demon form. Guts needed the upgrade.

As for my favorite most-skilled Guts moment...there's just so many. I can say for sure that I don't care for his victories due to the arm cannon. It's too deus ex machina. But the most memorable:

-Second duel with Griffith. Guts shut him down hard.
-Second duel with Serpico. Pillars nothin'.
-The fight with Zodd on the hill. Classic stuff, not much more needs to be said about it.
-The Eclipse. Every one of the hawks got butchered but naturally Guts pulled through. All he had going against that entire army of demons was a broken knife. This was the battle that made Guts berserk, it had to be epic.

There's a lot of series out there with the untouchable hero; Ninja Scroll, Batman, Hokuto no Ken...but to me Guts is the best of the best.

To me... I still goes with Zodd II

But then again... If based on tactics and wits... I believe the fight with Rochine would be the best...

Rochine can fly.. He cant, but still he manage to trick her into his trap by purposely pretending to block her attack and get air-borne with her... Second time, he hid in the fire, making full use of Rochine's weakness of trying to save Jill, and gave her an surprise attack.. Of course the most amazing moment, was when despite in mid air, Guts is able to turn his heard fast enough, for the spike to pierce through his mouth instead... Simply... Awesome...

At first we would say the fight against Zodd in the Hill of Swords, because we see Guts using the sword in the ground with his foot and the fact that Zodd and Guts are exchanging blows at an incredible speed.

But if we saw things that way, the fight with Serpico in after the pagan orgy would be a serious candidate to second place, Guts had every disavantage (sun in the eyes, right arm with low mobility and trying to fight in the edge of a cliff ^^)

The most Skilled Battle was for me the fight against Mozgus and his "minions".
Mozgus's minions we're very strong and each one of them completed the other ones weaknesses. Also Mozgus got very very strong in the end and Guts had already gone thru a lot of fights (the Goat Apostle, the blood blob, posessed pagans, Serpico). Also in the midst of everything there was this "end of the world" vision with people eating other people, fights everywhere and this huge blood blob eating everyone..
Also he had Casca around wich made him pay attention to many things at the same time he fought Mozgus.