Chung's stuff

Hi everybody, here's a picture i drew using the respective page of the manga from volume 27 as a reference.

http://img336.imageshack.us/my.php?image=original7mc.jpg (original picture)

http://img438.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserk6vi.jpg

http://img328.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserk1xf.jpg
(big version)

That's basically the way all my Fanart is done: there's some picture that I find very appealing and I'll just try to copy it, mostly by using pen and ink or pencils.
I've never been happy with creating things totally on my own because most of it either doesnt look good or it looks too much like the stuff I've aped. :judo:
So I've decided to stick with copying pictures to improve my technique at least.
Yet I've seen some artists who have a lot of their own stuff, so my question would be: how did you get there ? Did you start by doing original art, or was it more fanart? Or was it a whole different story? Tell me your opinions.

Oh yeah, comments are welcome and I'm not a native english speaker so please be gentle with me if there's any broken english. :casca:
 

Voyevoda

Breathe and Start
Re: Original art?

Although I guess I am sort of a newcomer myself, welcome to SK.net!

Chung said:
Hi everybody, here's a picture i drew using the respective page of the manga from volume 27 as  a reference.

http://img328.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserk1xf.jpg

That's basically the way all my Fanart is done: there's some picture that I find very appealing and I'll just try to copy it, mostly by using pen and ink or pencils.
I've never been happy with creating things totally on my own because most of it  either doesnt look good or it looks too much like the stuff I've aped.  :judo:
So I've decided to stick with copying pictures to improve my technique at least.
Yet I've seen some artists who have a lot of their own stuff, so my question would be: how did you get there ? Did you start by doing original art, or was it more fanart? Or was it a whole different story? Tell me your opinions.

Oh yeah, comments are welcome and I'm not a native english speaker so please be gentle with me if there's any broken english.  :casca:

An initial side note; could you resize the picture a bit (or at least provide a second, smaller version)? I think it's a bit large as it is now.

First off, I want to say that I really like your illustration there. It's very expressive, and I think I can see your style incorporated in Miura's.

Second off, as for the reasons for why you don't want to create your original art, you shouldn't be discouraged just because you aren't instantly satisfied with how your drawings turn out. The first things one should learn when drawing is perspective, foreshortening and lightning, preferably in that order. After that comes things like colour theory, and any various structural and anatomical research you might want to do. Most don't find this way of learning very fun (and it's understandable), but it's effective. It's always boring to have to go through the basics and rules in soccer before you get a chance to go out and play some, but if one is serious about his craft/hobby, it has to be done. If you are focused, and maintain a good attitude (of course it's recommendable to just sketch whatever inbetween those focused learning sessions to be able to do this) you'll notice your improvements quite fast, and you'll be even more eager to improve because of this.

Copying pictures might help you improve in some areas, but in most instances these areas are very specific and won't help you evolve as an artist or refine your artistic skills in general, but will rather make your overall ability stagnate somewhat as you only improve in these mostly very restricted methods and areas. Maintaining a trend like that might result in an artist working himself into a corner from which he might find it hard to further broaden his view and knowledge of art. I really can't tell if this is the case with you though, because apart from some small perspective errors (although I'm not even sure about this actually, seeing as I don't have the original picture to compare with where I am now), you seemed to have nailed it very well.

Lastly, if you're interested: www.fineart.sk/index.php?cat=12 - Andrew Loomis's books are always a very good read when it comes to refining your basic skills (and although you can read them on the site that I linked to, you should probably buy them if you intend to use them (Edit: the books are out of print anyway so don't mind this weird comment of mine)).
 

JIN

Yudanero...
Re: Original art?

Chung said:
Hi everybody, here's a picture i drew using the respective page of the manga from volume 27 as a reference.

http://img328.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserk1xf.jpg

That's basically the way all my Fanart is done: there's some picture that I find very appealing and I'll just try to copy it, mostly by using pen and ink or pencils.
I've never been happy with creating things totally on my own because most of it either doesn't look good or it looks too much like the stuff I've aped. :judo:
So I've decided to stick with copying pictures to improve my technique at least.
Yet I've seen some artists who have a lot of their own stuff, so my question would be: how did you get there ? Did you start by doing original art, or was it more fanart? Or was it a whole different story? Tell me your opinions.

Oh yeah, comments are welcome and I'm not a native english speaker so please be gentle with me if there's any broken english. :casca:

Unless you're tracing (booo, hisss, booo) I don't see why your post has a grey, rainy day tone to it. Your rendition is very very well done. Turn that frown upside down :guts: . Emulating an artist you like is not harmful. For those of us who weren't born with super talent it's how we get better. I might be going out on a limb here but I'm guessing others aren't as harsh on your original work as you might be. I'm also going to go as far as saying that someone who can produce fanart like yours doesn't need to wait around for replies to question like "how did you get there ? Did you start by doing original art, or was it more fanart? Or was it a whole different story?". Very good observation skills and great pensmanship in the image presented.
OK here is an evalute yourself art quiz (no need to reply): Can you draw this image again without referencing the original manga page (not in the same detail of course, but the pose for example, or the shading on the helmet or cross hatching on the sword, or the same character in another stance, etc)? If you answered yes to any of these questions then you're a Winner and Congrats! I'm guessing we gotta Winner. In my round about way of making a point I'm only saying that if you can recall something that you have drawn before (regardless of whether it was emulated or not) and reproduce it again then you've grown.
:troll: Though for best results when drawing an apple (for ex.) don't look to how such and such drew the apple. Draw the apple.
:guts: neeway, Welcome to SK!! Please post more art (fanart or otherwise)!

CaSan said:
Andrew Loomis's books are always a very good read when it comes to refining your basic skills (and although you can read them on the site that I linked to, you should probably buy them if you intend to use them).

Not to be taken in offense.. you're funny.
 

Voyevoda

Breathe and Start
Re: Original art?

JIN said:
Not to be taken in offense.. you're funny.

None taken (although I'm not quite sure about what you're getting at. Poor choice of litterature advice?)! :serpico:

Edit: I've read your PM now. I'm a bit on the slow side sometimes, sorry. That comment does seem a little bit odd, looking back at it ("no, really?" :schierke:).
 

JIN

Yudanero...
Re: Original art?

CaSan said:
None taken (although I'm not quite sure about what you're getting at. Poor choice of litterature advice?)!  :serpico:

Haha, nah Loomis is great. I sent a PM to clarify my obscure comment.  :troll:
 
Re: Original art?

Thanks for your advices!
I think I'll study those basics a bit more because I do lack confidence in those terms and that book seems like a good start to me, thx :serpico: !
I haven't read (m)any books on those subjects so any further book recommendations are welcome.

Unless you're tracing (booo, hisss, booo) I don't see why your post has a grey, rainy day tone to it. Your rendition is very very well done. Turn that frown upside down

I am actually pretty fond of that picture since it's the one I've put most effort in yet. The frustrating thing for me was that i could only put that much energy in sth. like that because I knew where I was heading. Once I want to come up with sth by myself I'm lost, because my main problem with drawing things straight from my mind is that I never really know how I want it to turn out. That image (if any) in my head always seems very fuzzy and I have no idea just how concrete you need to picture an image in your mind in order to be able to draw it. Though now that you mention it, i might try to reproduce an old image as an excercise.

Well thanks again for your advices they definitely gave me some sort of a direction so I feel a bit more confident about what to do next. Anyway, here's some more non-Berserk fanart:

Selphie from FFVIII
http://img419.imageshack.us/my.php?image=selphie2pc.jpg

Motoko Kusanagi from GitS
http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=motoko4xg.jpg

A.B.A. from Guilty Gear Isuka
http://img313.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aba0de.jpg
 

Voyevoda

Breathe and Start
Re: Original art?

Hey Chung, those are looking great! You seem to have very good line weight in your work as well.

I am actually pretty fond of that picture since it's the one I've put most effort in yet.

You should be fond of it. One can tell you've put a great deal of work into it. Also, in my opinion the best solution to your "inspiration block" is really just to draw, from life or photos or whatever you find suitable. If you make this a habit you will soon find it easier to gather ideas in your head. What you're going through happens to a lot of other artists as well at some stage in their life.

I guess one final thing I can add is that one should try to think art as much as he/she can, and seek inspiration everywhere. A simple walk can do miracles to one's creative drive. Visiting forums that are dedicated to the subject (www,conceptart.org is probably the site right now as far as drawing and illustration goes. You can even start your own online sketch book over there and you usually get good constructive feedback) is also a great way to flesh out your range of inspiration sources.

Other than that, just keep drawing!  :guts:
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
Re: Original art?

Sorry for the late reply:

Welcome to SK.net! (and another belated welcome to CaSan)

Good job on the reproduction. Not too much to add in terms of crit that hasn't already been said. Like what was suggested earlier, a good way to grow after doing one of these is to do it again only without the visual aid. Becoming good at drawing is just a matter of time and practice. A LOT of time and practice. Key is never to be discouraged and keep drawing.

...and keep posting :guts:
 
Fun with spilled ink!

Here's a placard that I did for history class. The main theme was "violations of human rights worldwide". Mine was about the Tian An Men incident from 1989 in China.
The task was to make it look as interesting as possible, so even a 12 year old who's never heard of human rights would at least take a look.
My first thought was: it's China, so I'll paste it up with some chinese symbols made with brush and ink.
After the whole thing was about half-finished I put it on the floor to take a closer look at the placard - brush in my right hand and inkbottle in my left hand.
And that was when I actually took a look at my wristwatch, unintentionally emptying the whole inkbottle on the placard :troll: .
No need to mention that I felt pretty dumb, but I finished it anyway, and in the end, it definitely had a unique look when compared to the other placards :carcus:.

What you see now is the result of that little "accident" (with some rearranging)



Some more old Fanart:

Kakihara from Ichi the Killer (photo used as reference)
http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kakihara2hs.jpg

It began with a big drop of ink in the wrong place (his left shoulder). Then I just randomly started dripping some ink and blow it in some direction...didn't come off as good as I hoped it would though and the shadowing on his face is wrong, I guess.


Chi from Chobits
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chi5ab.jpg

I had just got a pen from a friend, and I wanted to test it out. Strangely, some of the lines didn't come out very smooth (the feet) and when I traced the mouth, the line became horribly fuzzy so I tried to correct it with some opaque white (?) which made the picture look even nastier and I gave up.
Any ideas on how to avoid such issues with ink? :???:

Other than that, thanks again for your comments, suggestions and the warm welcome.
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
Re: Original art?

I'm not much of an inker, so I can't really comment on the technical aspects of what you've got here. (however, I think I know enough to say "spilled ink is a bad thing")

There are some proportional issues with the first pic's hand and torso (finger length and overall structure, clavicle being too low. The lighting/line weight seems a tad disjointed. Its almost as if the arms and torso/face are lit differently. And if you perhaps gave certain lines more weight than other it would unify the lighting/composition a bit more.

His lower half is a tad confusing for me. Is his left leg extended out and running over the right side of the page? Its not really shaded at all. Or is that just some branches that kind of look like a leg? If they're just branches that means his lower half is severely twisted.
The hair seems a bit rushed to me, a little too much like scribbling. Perhaps thats what you were going for. Dunno.

The other drawing is coming along nicely, not too much to crit on that one yet.
 
Re: Original art?

First I'd say that there are some anatomical/perspective/rendering mistakes but I think the inking is still impressive in a way  :serpico:
Nevertheless CaSan and Jin are right about learning basics before jumping into fanart...IMO a fanart should be the way you see another artist work not a "mere" copy and even in a copy there will always be some differences
Soooo do a lot of sketche read Loomis books draw your legs and feet when you are sit (to learn perspective) and I'm sure that soon you'll post some nice pictures!
C'ya
 
Re: Original art?

Though I won't be able to change those issues with the proportion and the lighting, I will keep them in mind for my future stuff, thanks a lot for the crits, I really appreciate that.
I won't be finishing that second pic since it has that ugly stain on it, so I'll keep it as a reminder of the dangers of inking for now :chomp:.

Finally got around to read a few pages of Loomis' book (thanks again for recommending it, CaSan!). Too bad it's out of print, i'd love to get one. (Though I did find some books by Loomis that were still available. Would you recommend his other books like "Drawing the head" and "Figures in action" as well?)
I'll try to focus on drawing from photos from now on and post them here if they don't bore you. :???:

Here's one I just finished
http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic9cw.jpg

And a pic from school of an old shoe in real life
http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shoe9ow.jpg

Hope you enjoy them.
 

Voyevoda

Breathe and Start
Re: Original art?

Great stuff Chung  :SK:

Chung said:
Finally got around to read a few pages of Loomis' book (thanks again for recommending it, CaSan!). Too bad it's out of print, i'd love to get one. (Though I did find some books by Loomis that were still available. Would you recommend his other books like "Drawing the head" and "Figures in action" as well?)

Yeah, although those aren't as encompassing as "Figure drawing for all it's worth", they are really good at what they deal with. In some ways, I'd say they are even better because they allow you to focus on one aspect of drawing more rather than tempt you to take too many things in at once (maybe that was just me though).

Chung said:
I'll try to focus on drawing from photos from now on and post them here if they don't bore you.  :???:

I for one won't be bored at all. In fact, I can't wait to see more from you. It's always great to see artistic progress in people's work. You've definitively shown you've got what it takes to become really good.
 
Re: Original art?

Cool, thx for the encouraging words :serpico:.

It would be nice to see some work from you too. I mean you seem to be doing pretty good yourself from what I've seen in the oekaki and I'm really interested in seeing what you can do with a little more time.

I'll be taking a little break for now, lots of school work to attend to... :judo:

UPDATE:
Finally drew some more, sorry it's been a busy week:
I remembered seeing that pic Lithrael did of Schierke at approx. 20 years old, so I figured I'd try the same by making an old Guts with wrinkles and a beard, using as little reference as possible. Hope you like it....
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oldguts3ie.jpg
Again, the hair is rushed, I really need to get a fix on how to draw hair, it's such a pain :puck:
Critics are appreciated.
 

IsolatioN

Last Soldier Standing
Very nice stuff Chung. You are a great artist, I wish I had drawing skills like that :guts:

Although the chin looks odd to me for some reason. Like it too suddenly goes from natural curves to straight up. But I don't really know what I'm blabbering about so best to wait for someone smart like CnC to come and crit before changing anything :serpico:

Nice work.
 
Thank you :serpico:, yeah that was supposed to be the lighting on the chin, which I referenced by looking at other pics of Guts with similar poses, and that reference had no beard so it really does look a bit strange.
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
Overall I'd say good work! I looks pretty good. The shading is nice.

Proportionally, there are some issues. I think the chin issue that Isolation was referring to might be because the face is (typically) split up into thirds, vertically. Its one third to go from the chin to the base of the nose, another third to go to the base of the nose to the brow, and another third to go from the brow to the top of the forehead.
Another issue is the size of the ear is a bit too small. The ear typically will occupy the middle third, or from the base of the nose to the brow.
Also I think you need to include the back of the skull, as he has none at this point.

But, like I said, I like the shading. I also like the nose, good job on that.
Cheers
 
Re: Original art?

Chung said:
UPDATE:
Finally drew some more, sorry it's been a busy week:
I remembered seeing that pic Lithrael did of Schierke at approx. 20 years old, so I figured I'd try the same by making an old Guts with wrinkles and a beard, using as little reference as possible. Hope you like it....
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oldguts3ie.jpg
Again, the hair is rushed, I really need to get a fix on how to draw hair, it's such a pain :puck:
Critics are appreciated.

Very interesting rendition of an old Gut :guts:
And that ladies head shot is awesome :isidro:.... but the lips and Eyes scream Photoshop IMO... and if I am wrong you are the master and Lips and Eyes :)
 
sandman said:
but the lips and Eyes scream Photoshop IMO

I only adjusted the overall contrast a bit, apart from that, it was totally done with pencil.

sandman said:
that ladies head shot is awesome...

well, it does look good as it is, but once you'd compare it to the original, you'd rather have a "nah"-feeling I guess.

Thanks for the comments though :serpico:
 
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