Author Topic: Episode 272  (Read 30319 times)

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Offline Lithrael

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2006, 10:28:16 PM »
Dear god that was hot.  I am dead from the hot.  Seriously pleased that I'll be getting this issue in hardcopy soon.  Because HOT. 

Thank you as always, Aaz!

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Offline Noid

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2006, 01:54:50 AM »
I think this is a pretty optimistic assumption.  This is just the Kushan fleet.  There's still the land army attacking Vritannis head-on.

That is what I want to say. Only the most part of the Kushan fleet.

And, yes, Guts isn't very friend of fame but I think that this has to be remembered by someone. They have destroyed a lot of dakas and makaras and the survivors will want to know what happened there.

Perhaps won't be eminent until Guts regret from 'Elfhell'  :puck:
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Offline prawnstyle

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #52 on: April 15, 2006, 01:12:03 PM »
excellent episode...thanks for the scans..

guts design in the armour is beginning to look slightly amusing,  but still fits...that huge snake,  the design is very basic,  I wonder it will have any special strengths,  it might have very tough skin,  or regenerative abilities.

I think we are going to see a combination attack to take down Daiba,  with serpico definitely involved,  who needs to develop and show that he wont become obselete when they have to face off against the band of the hawk...I also think we might see schierke finally encanting through guts..or maybe not.

Can't say I have been massively impressed by Daiba yet and summoning another large monster doesnt seem much of a trup,  guts has dealt with a lot of this stuff before,  but we shall see...

peace  :puck:

Offline dylec

Re: Episode 272
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2006, 02:14:56 PM »
Thanks for the scans.
Looks like the battle will last a bit longer before Guts & co. can go. Two warriors on one sorcerer with wind (& blade) vs water. Heh, I see more action ahead. ;]

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #54 on: April 15, 2006, 03:01:16 PM »
it seems that Daiba doesn't mind sinking his own flagship to defeat Guts and his group.

Well, he looked pretty pissed off after he got shot by Isidro. :void:

For everyone complaining about the super-hero-ish-ness (is that a word?) of the latest poses, I think we should remember that, in the first place, there are a lot of western influences in this manga (and I mean "western" in a broad sense, as in everything west of Japan and east of Fiji), and, in the second place, Guts really is super-human anyway

It's not like it's the first time Guts looks like a super hero either anyway, I think people just have trouble getting over the fact his helmet makes him resemble Batman when his face isn't covered in dark fluid, what with it only masking the upper half of his face and all. Holding a mast isn't that big of a deal in itself compared to some things he's done in the past. As for western influences, the setting is medieval and there are western influences of course but don't be mistaken, the story's built on a lot of oriental concepts. Just making sure we're not generalizing/simplifying things here.

Time for Vaxillus' crappy theory.

I like the way you call it. :void: I think I'll stick to what's said about it in the manga (Guts "entrusting himself" and all).

But in my oppinion Diaba's kind of lame, I don't really like him as a character...meh personal preference I guess.

Interesting, I find him pretty cool myself, especially for a one-time encounter (which he probably is). What part of him you don't like?

It's a little upsetting that the boat got tanked, I thought it would be pretty ironic if they used Daiba's boat to get to Elfhelm

Nah, I confirm what Knight o' Skeleton said: they're planning on using Roderick's ship. It's not like Daiba's crew would have worked for them anyway, or that they could have managed that Galleass all by themselves.

And if that it's the case perhaps they have to spend sometime with the people of the city.

I can't believe some people are still clinging to that idea. Give it up man, they're not staying and Guts won't lead the Holy See Alliance's troops. As for destroying "most of" the fleet, we really can't know for sure. They've killed quite a lot of them and they're probably going to terminate the general as well, but there might still be a consequent number of troops left for all we know. After all the city's big and it's all on fire right now, the group just cleared its path to the harbor without patrolling the rest of the streets. They've really been fleeing and avoiding encounters, not guarding the place or trying to defeat all the assailants.

I wonder it will have any special strengths,  it might have very tough skin,  or regenerative abilities.

We can see that it's made of water in this episode, and that Guts slashing it with the DS doesn't seem to be effective at all.

I also think we might see schierke finally encanting through guts..or maybe not.

I doubt this to happen given the way things are evolving.

Offline QUeeN typhonblue

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #55 on: April 15, 2006, 06:35:23 PM »
Guts last word, "Water?"

How enigmatic. Maybe we'll see a Doryatoiya of Baruna in the next episode.  :chomp:


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Offline Noid

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #56 on: April 15, 2006, 07:42:38 PM »
I can't believe some people are still clinging to that idea. Give it up man, they're not staying and Guts won't lead the Holy See Alliance's troops.

I didn't say that.

As for destroying "most of" the fleet, we really can't know for sure. They've killed quite a lot of them and they're probably going to terminate the general as well, but there might still be a consequent number of troops left for all we know. After all the city's big and it's all on fire right now, the group just cleared its path to the harbor without patrolling the rest of the streets. They've really been fleeing and avoiding encounters, not guarding the place or trying to defeat all the assailants.

Yes, we can't know for sure what proportion of the fleet, but they killed a lot. And yes, they are fleeing not protecting the city.

But Owen, all the people in the party and some guards have seen Guts and his group. Perhaps some of them remember it and even associate the battle in the harbor and what happened in the party. But this is not outstanding now, and probably in the future neither. It's only a note.
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Offline cuthulu

Re: Episode 272
« Reply #57 on: April 15, 2006, 08:53:24 PM »
Interesting, I find him pretty cool myself, especially for a one-time encounter (which he probably is). What part of him you don't like?

Aesthetically I'm not fond of him, I think its the creepy, unkept old man vibe he gives off. That and the fact that Guts can't get a hit on him. I'm going to put it into D&D-esque terms for lack of a better way to explain it. Whenever you have a powerful fighter, go against a powerful magic user, usually the fighter is toast. The fact that Guts can't even get a hit in, I think is giving credence to this theory. The fights a little unbalanced I would have rather have seen a battle between Daiba and Schierke, although I think Schierke would get slaughtered in a battle like that.   

I Also think Daiba's presence is slowing the plot down a little too much, it reminds me a lot of the battle with Roshinu, I just want the fight to end so the plot can move forward and out of the city.

Offline Mage

Re: Episode 272
« Reply #58 on: April 15, 2006, 10:11:38 PM »
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with assuming Guts is still jacked up from the Beast battle with Daiba. That's a natural feeling about the scene, but it's also very vague and intangible, so I don't think you can quantify it, or the current nature of Guts/The Beast, from it.

It could be that Schierke is just keeping the Beast from gaining control, while its od still envelops (and empowers) Guts...evidenced by how easily and completely he slipped back into the Beast, as if he hadn't awakened at all.  From the conversation near the beginning, it sounds as though Guts admits to still being in "Beast" form to Farnese but is in control due to Schierke's intervening protection.  That implies a new dynamic to go along with the new look (kind of reinforced by how he commends Schierke as being "incredible").

Then again, later on as he's fighting Daiba, he says rage/pain brings out the power of the armor but that he can't entrust in it, as if he's not fully utilizing the power in the current form.  So what difference this (questionable) new relationship makes could be moot anyways.
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Offline Wii wii wii

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #59 on: April 15, 2006, 10:48:07 PM »
Aesthetically I'm not fond of him, I think its the creepy, unkept old man vibe he gives off.

Well, thinking he's lame for that reason makes you so, more than it does him.

That and the fact that Guts can't get a hit on him.

Not every fight-especially one with this major a villain(relatively)- is going to be resolved within the matter of an episode or two. And besides, Isidro just got a hit on him, one that should go a long way, considering Daiba's build and what it was that Isidro hit him with. (Admittedly, Daiba is more physically resiliant than he looks, didn't stagger him nearly as much as I thought it would.  :isidro:)

I'm going to put it into D&D-esque terms for lack of a better way to explain it. Whenever you have a powerful fighter, go against a powerful magic user, usually the fighter is toast.

Sometimes, but not nearly all, or even usually, really.
 
The fact that Guts can't even get a hit in, I think is giving credence to this theory.

So damn base.

The fights a little unbalanced I would have rather have seen a battle between Daiba and Selke, although I think Selke would get slaughtered in a battle like that.   

Yeah, the fight's unbalanced, but that's what makes it so damn epic, and entertaining. Besides, in my opinion, it hasn't even been going long enough for us to determine one way or the other whether it really is unbalanced or not; Guts is one hell of a beast in a scrap, and it takes these kind've "high-pressure" situations to make him shine all the more, these kind of fights are one of the things that make Berserk worth reading. At least, in my opinion.

And, if Schierke would get slaughtered, as you say, then I guess it's a good thing she's not going toe to toe with 'im, right?

I Also think Daiba's presence is slowing the plot down a little too much, it reminds me a lot of the battle with Roshinu, I just want the fight to end so the plot can move forward and out of the city.

suck my dik

Anyway, the ep. was fantastic!

Can't wait for the next, it's amazing how sucked into this arc I've been getting, each episode just keeps building and building. Though, that's nothing new to Berserk, I guess.

As always, thanks be to thee Mr. Useless Sound Clip Archive.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2006, 05:16:24 AM »
Guts last word, "Water?" How enigmatic.

Well, the snake is made of water. :SK:

I didn't say that.

It's the same train of thought.

But Owen, all the people in the party and some guards have seen Guts and his group. Perhaps some of them remember it and even associate the battle in the harbor and what happened in the party. But this is not outstanding now, and probably in the future neither. It's only a note.

Yeah, that's all very nice but it isn't anything special in regard to the scale of the whole event. It might be interesting if Owen asks Griffith about it though.

Aesthetically I'm not fond of him, I think its the creepy, unkept old man vibe he gives off.

He's a bad guy so you know, you're not supposed to find him cute or anything. If he gives out that vibe it means the character is well designed, now disliking him for what he represents is Ok (but it's different).

That and the fact that Guts can't get a hit on him.

If Guts can't get a hit on him, logically that makes him cool and not lame.

I'm going to put it into D&D-esque terms for lack of a better way to explain it. Whenever you have a powerful fighter, go against a powerful magic user, usually the fighter is toast. The fact that Guts can't even get a hit in, I think is giving credence to this theory.

Putting it in D&D terms in itself is a failure. Berserk isn't a stereotypical fantasy story buddy, this fighter/wizard thing doesn't make sense. There's no generality in Berserk, only exceptions. Characters are unique, same with big fights. They're defined by the context, the environment, etc and not just the parties involved. Besides fighters aren't always done for against wizards in D&D anyway. But keeping things on topic, you seem to be ignoring the context here: Guts is wounded, heavily armored and fighting on the sea against Daiba who levitates and uses water-based magic to attack. Obviously it isn't going to be easy for Guts to land a hit on him, especially since he has to resist the temptation of the Beast while fighting (and trying not to fall in the water). And it's not like Daiba's been playing with Guts either, he got him once by surprise and while he was berserk, but since then he hasn't been able to do much, and he actually barely avoided a hit in this episode (that's the benefit of experience I guess, he's cunning), it was a close call. Let's also not forget that if Guts gets a single hit on him he's dead.

The fights a little unbalanced I would have rather have seen a battle between Daiba and Schierke, although I think Schierke would get slaughtered in a battle like that.

The fight's obviously unbalanced because Daiba is in his element and the group is struggling to escape the city. If Guts was in good shape and fighting Daiba in the middle of a plain, what do you think would happen? Old man D wouldn't have had the time to say his name before getting cut in half. The lack of balance is what makes it all interesting. And I also wouldn't be too sure about Schierke getting "slaughtered", although I don't think she'd necessarily win. Her magic is different so it's hard to really make a comparison, but she can pull some serious stuff when she wants. Daiba's tornadoes would have had trouble stopping the Wheel of Flames for example, it all depends on what solution (how proper it would be) she would find to nullify his powers and counterattack IMHO. Besides don't forget that Schierke's still just a kid, her time will come and one day or another she'll fight another magic user. As a matter of fact she already does enough for the group as she is...

I Also think Daiba's presence is slowing the plot down a little too much, it reminds me a lot of the battle with Roshinu, I just want the fight to end so the plot can move forward and out of the city.

Ugh, I think that's kind of sad considering that both fights are awesome and necessary to the plot (if only for it to make sense). That's just your opinion I guess, to each his own.

It could be that Schierke is just keeping the Beast from gaining control, while its od still envelops (and empowers) Guts

The Od of the armor envelops and empowers him as long as he wears it (that's the reason his senses are dulling even though he hasn't fought much). The difference is that when he fights the effects are stronger. As for the Beast, it manifests itself through the fact that to get the "full power" out of the armor Guts has to entrust himself to it, and by doing that he loses control over himself.

how easily and completely he slipped back into the Beast, as if he hadn't awakened at all.

Yeah, she's pretty much only keeping his head out of the water, unlike what had happened in the past (completely freeing him at once). This variant of her usual intervention looks more problematic than anything to me right now, and like I said in an earlier post I wonder how she'll manage to completely free him from the armor's grasp while inside of it herself. That's why it's interesting though. :guts:

Isidro just got a hit on him, one that should go a long way, considering Daiba's build and what it was that Isidro hit him with. (Admittedly, Daiba is more physically resiliant than he looks, didn't stagger him nearly as much as I thought it would.  :isidro:)

Isidro comments on this in the episode, it's because the powder got wet. The explosion wasn't as strong as it should have been, that's why Daiba didn't die (since given his build a normal hit would have killed or at least maimed him). Guess he's not just cunning but also lucky.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #61 on: April 16, 2006, 05:20:35 AM »
It could be that Schierke is just keeping the Beast from gaining control, while its od still envelops (and empowers) Guts...evidenced by how easily and completely he slipped back into the Beast, as if he hadn't awakened at all.  From the conversation near the beginning, it sounds as though Guts admits to still being in "Beast" form to Farnese but is in control due to Schierke's intervening protection.  That implies a new dynamic to go along with the new look (kind of reinforced by how he commends Schierke as being "incredible").

That doesn't mean anything other than he's awake because of Schierke, it implies nothing of a new condition by itself. Guts doesn't say he feels different or "empowered" any differently than when he's usually in the armor. All he says is he's completly awake, which doesn't reinforce something different at all. Don't you think Guts or Schierke would say something about it if there were more to this? Again, not saying there can't be, but I don't see it now.

Then again, later on as he's fighting Daiba, he says rage/pain brings out the power of the armor but that he can't entrust in it, as if he's not fully utilizing the power in the current form.  So what difference this (questionable) new relationship makes could be moot anyways.

Yeah, it's certainly a unique situation, but that might just mean Schierke can't pull him all the way out. Something more unstable, not a revolutionary new fighting form. That's the other thing, like Guts is possibly gaining super strength like this... I just don't see where that comes from, and I don't see it working now. The whole point was to wake him up so he wouldn't go splut in that freefall, so he'd worry about his welfare, then he started jumping around awkwardly, not like the Beast/Berserk, but like himself. The power of the Berserk is that you don't worry about those things on any level. It's a catch 22, the strength in being Berserk is it eliminates fear of pain and unlocks the bodies uninhibited potential, so how is that supposed to work when he's completely awake?

Daiba - to protect your allies during a battle, have you been waken to your senses?

Daiba - But can you fight against Daiba without the power of the Berserk?

Right now, this looks more like the point.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #62 on: April 16, 2006, 06:02:21 AM »
Mucha calidad.

Well said, I pretty much agree with all of this (including the replies to Wally on page 2 :carcus:).

Offline Akin

Re: Episode 272
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2006, 06:35:55 AM »
Aesthetically I'm not fond of him, I think its the creepy, unkept old man vibe he gives off. That and the fact that Guts can't get a hit on him. I'm going to put it into D&D-esque terms for lack of a better way to explain it. Whenever you have a powerful fighter, go against a powerful magic user, usually the fighter is toast. The fact that Guts can't even get a hit in, I think is giving credence to this theory. The fights a little unbalanced I would have rather have seen a battle between Daiba and Schierke, although I think Schierke would get slaughtered in a battle like that.   

I personally always thought the D&D system did a poor job of showing realistic fantasy combat (yeah, i know how that term sounds).  It really depends on a variety of things, such as how/how well the mage defends himself, and if that is something that can be countered with extreme skill and/or magical items... also how the mage attacks, and if that too can be dodged, blocked, or countered...  and if the mage is well versed in fighting very skilled fighers, or if he's just used to being a source of artillery, or if he's used to only mage vs. mage battles, or if he's only used to fighing weaker non-magical opponents... Really, it's like anything else (combat related), and you should really look at the specifics of it all instead of making generalisations like that...
Hrm, looking at this battle, I'm starting to really see how this group's party dynamics work... I should make a post in the character section about it once I thought about it all....

Also: does guts still have his crossbow, like the wikipedia article states (according to it, he lost it with slann), or is wikipedia lieing to me, and in need of a fix. (not that he can use it now, it would be on the ground)

I Also think Daiba's presence is slowing the plot down a little too much, it reminds me a lot of the battle with Roshinu, I just want the fight to end so the plot can move forward and out of the city.

I remember seeing GNM saying this a while ago on the forum, something like "Berserk: a tale of Guts trying to find a boat".  it's true X_X


Finally read it with trans, I managed to get the perfect combo of hirasawa songs for that battle.  Forces 1.5, full version of forces, and sogekite at the very end...

Interesting, I find him pretty cool myself, especially for a one-time encounter (which he probably is).
I'm kind of split on this one, and before this ep was released, I would have thought that either daiba would have given up, and focused on more important things (like, say, his job of destroying the city???)  GNM made a post about this in the previous episode thread I believe, towards the end. But seeing this episode, it's looking like he's going to be a sacrifice to the group's "party dynamics" when it comes to combat.  A few episodes ago, I was worried that they would meet him out at sea, a place where a nearly all groundbound group like Guts's would be on a serious disadvantage. I was happy to see that Guts etc was facing him near land (hay, and with all those "stepping stones" he made earlier as well  :carcus: ).  But here's why I'm split: Daiba dieing (say that three times fast) would make Griffith's attempt to win over all of "Europe" way too easy.  Here's why:  Griffith is the best land general ever.  He currently has an awesome army, and causality on his side, etc... but does he have a navy?  Has he ever fought a sea battle?  I figured in the past, that if Guts and Family meet Daiba at sea, they would have to run away, but at least Griffith would have a problem on his hands... anyways... ... So I was kinda disappointed that Guts's own attempt to get out of this place works into Griffith's hands (though we shall see about this later how many will assoicate  being alive with "that dude with the huge sword and those guys casting spells" and how many will assoicate  it with Griffith (if indeed, he chooses to help at all...))...

About Isidro getting the hit in, it's obvious, after reading, that Daiba ignoring Isidro is the reason for this... hrm..

While i was composing this... new scans!! Sweet! I should reread now...  (nice and CGable *HINT HINT*)  :carcus:

  Unrelated, but I noticed Isidro appears to be carring all of guts's dropped equipment.

Edit1: epic enough?  blah, only took an hour or so... anyways...
I am glad to see a vs Mage battle, either last episode with the Guts vs Daiba or this episode with Family vs Daiba... I'm also glad to see Family vs Single opponent... when was the last time we saw that?  Wasn't it before people had magical items? (tower of Retribution?)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 06:44:57 AM by Akin »

Offline Jhot obs

Re: Episode 272
« Reply #64 on: April 16, 2006, 07:01:47 AM »
Also: does guts still have his crossbow, like the wikipedia article states (according to it, he lost it with slann), or is wikipedia lieing to me, and in need of a fix. (not that he can use it now, it would be on the ground)
Guts still has his crossbow. He used it last back in episode 265 against some dakas. And I wouldn't trust wikipedia's info on Berserk that much unless it has Aaz's seal of approval on it.

I'm kind of split on this one, and before this ep was released, I would have thought that either daiba would have given up, and focused on more important things (like, say, his job of destroying the city???)
The fact that Daiba showed up after seeing the Blaze Rod go to work and all those makaras killed before him shows that Guts' influence poses a potential threat to the Kushan assault (seaside anyway). Plus, I think there are plenty of his harashadas that act independently without his direct guidance: they know how to use the Kushan beasts and shouldn't face too much resistance with the mist and chaos going on in the city.

GNM made a post about this in the previous episode thread I believe, towards the end. But seeing this episode, it's looking like he's going to be a sacrifice to the group's "party dynamics" when it comes to combat.
I'm hoping it's a beautiful and bloody one. Preferably finding out a little girl helped bring about his death prior to it. :guts:

But here's why I'm split: Daiba dieing (say that three times fast) would make Griffith's attempt to win over all of "Europe" way too easy.  Here's why:  Griffith is the best land general ever.  He currently has an awesome army, and causality on his side, etc... but does he have a navy?  Has he ever fought a sea battle?  I figured in the past, that if Guts and Family meet Daiba at sea, they would have to run away, but at least Griffith would have a problem on his hands... anyways... ... So I was kinda disappointed that Guts's own attempt to get out of this place works into Griffith's hands (though we shall see about this later how many will assoicate  being alive with "that dude with the huge sword and those guys casting spells" and how many will assoicate  it with Griffith (if indeed, he chooses to help at all...))...
Griffith has never oversaw a sea battle, but that's a moot point as Causality/Idea is engineering everything to work in his favor as you mentioned. Plus, there's still the land general Daiba mentioned in volume 28 that has yet to make an appearance. We don't know yet what this land general will do or this land general has some trump up his sleeve for a tight fix against Griffith's forces the way Daiba has for Guts' company.


About Isidro getting the hit in, it's obvious, after reading, that Daiba ignoring Isidro is the reason for this... hrm..


Unrelated, but I noticed Isidro appears to be carring all of guts's dropped equipment.
Yeah, Isidro got him good as Aaz pointed out, but I don't think the old fart is going to let one of them catch up off guard again. Especially with his magical giant water snake. Still, I kind of hope Isidro puts some of Guts' displaced gear to use.  :badbone:

By the way, thanks Aaz for the updated episode. Makes figuring things out a lot easier.  :troll:

Offline Akin

Re: Episode 272
« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2006, 07:17:47 AM »
Guts still has his crossbow. He used it last back in episode 265 against some dakas. And I wouldn't trust wikipedia's info on Berserk that much unless it has Aaz's seal of approval on it.
Hrm, current verion of the article seems to lost the "Weaponry" section over in an edit a short time ago...  I should really get more involved in editing that article...  the character section looks big enough to warrent a split in articles (with the main article still mentioning the main ones...)   ... potentally, the number of characters in berserk would probably warrent multiple articles....
... what?  that guy took out some characters's entries?  Arg, to the talk page....

... more to respond to later...

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2006, 07:24:45 AM »
Really, it's like anything else (combat related), and you should really look at the specifics of it all instead of making generalisations like that...

Yeah, enough D&D bullshit talk for now, thanks (nothing against you personally of course).

does guts still have his crossbow, like the wikipedia article states (according to it, he lost it with slann), or is wikipedia lieing to me, and in need of a fix.

Geez, isn't anybody paying attention at all? Guts has been using his crossbow since what happened in volume 26 (as Jhot obs pointed out), why are you even reading wikipedia to find out about it? It's really not a reliable source of information on Berserk, give it up altogether man.

But here's why I'm split: Daiba dieing (say that three times fast) would make Griffith's attempt to win over all of "Europe" way too easy.  Here's why:  Griffith is the best land general ever.  He currently has an awesome army, and causality on his side, etc... but does he have a navy? Has he ever fought a sea battle?

First, even if between quotation marks I'd prefer you not to call anything in the Berserk world "Europe". It's just confusing and not really accurate. Second, I don't think that changes anything for Griffith. Daiba's troops would have had to stay near the coast or to disembark to attack the town, and the apostles would have taken care of them like that, it wouldn't have been a real sea battle. You're also assuming a lot of things here (Griffith the best general? He's superhuman now but who knows?), Ganishka's fleet could be huge, with Daiba's troops just being a part of it. Maybe there are other powers that would refuse to let the Hawks cross the seas, and last but not least: who said Griffith cared about crossing the ocean? He could just keep his armies in Midland and simply protect its coasts, without necessarily building a fleet. Or he could find appropriate allies (Ys?) instead of bothering with it himself. The possibilities are really vast. If he's going to intervene right now, it'll be to save Vritannis (or rather the armies/generals/nobles gathered there), so he should concentrate his actions on it, not on fighting at sea. Plus he could always send flying or swimming apostles to take care of the remains of Daiba's fleet without having much of a battle (just dispatching Makara?).

Unrelated, but I noticed Isidro appears to be carring all of guts's dropped equipment.

Yeah, and you can see the crossbow among it.

when was the last time we saw that?  Wasn't it before people had magical items? (tower of Retribution?)

We've never seen them fighting like they just did, it's the first time. That's commonly called character development. :void: And at Albion it was just Guts, Casca, Puck, and other people. Not the group as we know it.

Hrm, current verion of the article seems to lost the "Weaponry" section over in an edit a short time ago...  I should really get more involved in editing that article...

Just give it up man... Whatever you do will be undone by someone else that thinks he knows better (regardless of whether he knows anything or not). Entries in an Encyclopedia are supposed to be written by experts on the topic the entry deals with, not by 16 years old "anime fan" smartasses. That's why the Berserk article in wikipedia will never be good, because anybody can edit it, and very few people know well enough about Berserk to write an Encyclopedia definition.

Offline Akin

Re: Episode 272
« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2006, 08:40:37 AM »
Geez, isn't anybody paying attention at all? Guts has been using his crossbow since what happened in volume 26 (as Jhot obs pointed out), why are you even reading wikipedia to find out about it? It's really not a reliable source of information on Berserk, give it up altogether man.
As for why I read Wikipedia in general, it's because there are a lot of interesting, well written articles there.  Of course, there's also a lot of room for improvement.
The berserk article on wikipedia I mainly look at occasionally to see how it's doing, and if there is anyway I can help improve the article, not as a primary information source. I do, however understand that Wikipedia probably does end up as a primary information source for many things, including manga-related articles as Berserk.  I have the URL in my sig not because the berserk article is a shining example of what wikipedia should be, but because I know it needs major improvement (though, it has indeed improved a lot over time), and I figure the more knowlagable people stumble across that article, the more improvement it can receive. (Perhaps I should revise my sig to make this more clear.)  I know this runs counter to many of the opinions of people here, yourself possibly included, that put all emphasis on the words of a few choice people, rather than on the "masses".  As much as you'd all love it, more people are likely to find the Wikipedia artice on Berserk than find the Berserk encyclopedia, and I think these people deserve a good article.  Besides, a few specific, choice people sure get busy a lot.  :miura: Do people like Walter really want to do everything?

So yeah... I commented on the crossbow here because I saw it on the Wikipedia article a little while back, and was like "wha...??? That can't be right... on the other hand I don't remember the last time he used it sense the trolls..."  and while skimming over, I didn't see him specifically use it, even though I though I saw the handle to it being carried around with him, I wanted to make sure.

Personally, the berserk article sure looks a lot more useful than when I glanced at, say, the forums of ceritian other Berserk "communities"   (scantranslation groups, you know who you are :puck:)

First, even if between quotation marks I'd prefer you not to call anything in the Berserk world "Europe". It's just confusing and not really accurate.
Sorry, I was quickly trying to state "the whole of western countries, in the unnamed(?) world of berserk", and still be clear about it.


Second, I don't think that changes anything for Griffith. Daiba's troops would have had to stay near the coast or to disembark to attack the town, and the apostles would have taken care of them like that, it wouldn't have been a real sea battle. You're also assuming a lot of things here (Griffith the best general? He's superhuman now but who knows?), Ganishka's fleet could be huge, with Daiba's troops just being a part of it. Maybe there are other powers that would refuse to let the Hawks cross the seas, and last but not least: who said Griffith cared about crossing the ocean? He could just keep his armies in Midland and just protect its coast, without necessarily building a fleet. Or he could find appropriate allies (Ys?) instead of bothering with it himself. The possibilities are really vast. If he's going to intervene right now, it'll be to save Vritannis, so he should concentrate his actions on it, not on fighting at sea. Plus he could always send flying or swimming apostles to take care of the remaining Kushan fleet without having much of a battle (just dispatching Makara?).
Oh, right, he could completely avoid the sea as much as possible, but having some kind of naval force would help at least, I would think. Depending on what his strategy is, of course.  There are many things we don't know, is Daiba really the best sea general?  I would assume so, but I could of course be wrong.

We've never seen them fighting like they just did, it's the first time. That's commonly called character development. :void: And at Albion it was just Guts, Casca, and other people. Not the group as we know it.
Ah, wasn't sure if I was right, and didn't have a lot of time to check, and I didn't want to be presumptuous like that.  Guess it backfired :/   I meant "is this the first time we've seen this?"  Re-looking over what happened at the top of that tower, Isidro was kind of working with himself and puck, with Jerome kinda just sitting there...  I somehow mentally photoshopped in Serpico there, and more teamwork, I guess.

Just give it up man... Whatever you do will be undone by someone else that thinks he knows better (regardless of whether he knows anything or not). Entries in an Encyclopedia are supposed to be written by experts on the topic the entry deals with[...] That's why the Berserk article in wikipedia will never be good, because anybody can edit it, and very few people know well enough about Berserk to write an Encyclopedia definition.
Hrm, sounds like you think there is nothing usefull in any of the articles, meaning my view is unchangeably different from your own *shrug*.  And besides that, my personal experience also differs from your stated assumption (?).  Now, this could be because I've mostly done minor things, such as fixing and adding redirects, and adding interwiki links (links from one article to related ones.)  But generally, I've noticed the majority of articles become more usefull and factual over time. (actually, the vast majority)  And things possible errors I point out in talk pages cause people to check primary sources, etc.  So sorry, but I don't know what your talking about.  :judo:
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 09:12:24 AM by Akin »

Offline Casan

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2006, 09:08:30 AM »
Aazealh: Awesome stuff. Thanks!

that guy who i can't even remember the name of (and I'm not checking right now, so...).
Jerome? "Berserk Encyclopedia, at your service"  :SK:

Offline Akin

Re: Episode 272
« Reply #69 on: April 16, 2006, 09:16:00 AM »
Aazealh: Awesome stuff. Thanks!
Jerome? "Berserk Encyclopedia, at your service"  :SK:

Actually, that's what I meant by checking.  :SK:  Thanks for your input  :troll:  
darn epic comments making checking sources a possible way to derail thought train

edit: back to the main topic:  Hrm, prior to seeing the um... snake (at first it just looked like a blob of water)... I thought he was able to "fast-cast" because he was able to use his power aquired from Ganishka to "cheat".  So um.. does it bleed, and how can we kill it?  yeah, i know, it doesn't appear to bleed, if you don't get what I said watch more older action movies
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 09:28:00 AM by Akin »

Offline Mad Angel Loki

Re: Episode 272
« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2006, 10:50:11 AM »
About the episode Griff and Aaz said so much about this that adding something on this topic'd be mere "flooding"  :void:
Arf...

Offline Casan

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2006, 01:48:59 PM »
edit: back to the main topic:  Hrm, prior to seeing the um... snake (at first it just looked like a blob of water)... I thought he was able to "fast-cast" because he was able to use his power aquired from Gashanka to "cheat".  So um.. does it bleed, and how can we kill it?  yeah, i know, it doesn't appear to bleed, if you don't get what I said watch more older action movies

They are most likely going to have to try to get to Daiba once again (although I'm still open for any amount of surprises we might be in for). Their team work is pretty good now so distracting Daiba once more (and this time, making the following hit count) shouldn't be impossible, especially since he's already quite riled up. Whatever plan or method of approach they might come up with might not execute perfectly (at first), and I expect Daiba to take the initiative next episode, so things might look grim for a while. In the end though, there can only be one outcome  :puck:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 272
« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2006, 03:35:18 PM »
As for why I read Wikipedia in general, it's because there are a lot of interesting, well written articles there.  Of course, there's also a lot of room for improvement.

I don't care about Wikipedia in general, my comment was only regarding Berserk.

As much as you'd all love it, more people are likely to find the Wikipedia artice on Berserk than find the Berserk encyclopedia, and I think these people deserve a good article.

That's really besides the point, it's just not our concern here in this thread. I'm simply tired to see people asking about obvious mistakes they've seen in Wikipedia's Berserk article (instead of checking our forum/encyclopedia for example). Besides Wikipedia uses our episodes listing (copy/paste) without having asked permission to do so, and they didn't even cite the source at first. Way to go, a simple link to the Encyclopedia would be as effective.

Personally, the berserk article sure looks a lot more useful than when I glanced at, say, the forums of ceritian other Berserk "communities"

Well better than worthless doesn't mean much. :void:

Oh, right, he could completely avoid the sea as much as possible, but having some kind of naval force would help at least, I would think. Depending on what his strategy is, of course.  There are many things we don't know, is Daiba really the best sea general?  I would assume so, but I could of course be wrong.

Yeah, it's just assumptions for now and I don't think they directly relate to the current situation. I've actually speculated on this in some old thread, in case you want to check it out.

Hrm, sounds like you think there is nothing usefull in any of the articles, meaning my view is unchangeably different from your own *shrug*.

No, I'm specifically talking about Berserk. I've seen some good articles in there, usually on stuff nobody but specialists know about, but I've seen ridiculous ones too. All I'm saying is that from what I've seen of their Berserk entry it hasn't really improved since day one, and I think I'm qualified enough to judge of its quality. Now feel free to go edit it or whatever (and good luck on it) but let's stop the off topic here, this discussion would be more at its place in Shootin' the Breeze.

Hrm, prior to seeing the um... snake (at first it just looked like a blob of water)... I thought he was able to "fast-cast" because he was able to use his power aquired from Ganishka to "cheat".

No matter how it turns out his power IS related to Ganishka, that's for sure. Guts even felt it through the Brand, so it's a no-brainer. Now, what Schierke says about the snake in this episode is very interesting and quite intriguing. It looks like Daiba's more a servant of that monster than the other way around, what with him being able to cast quickly because of it and all. Of course the snake could always just be a manifestation of Ganishka's power or something like that, who knows (hopefully we'll get answers in episode 273).

As for how to kill it... I also think they'll have to target Daiba since the snake is made of water, that should be entertaining. :guts: On a side note the water gun/tongue the snake used against Guts looks pretty dangerous, cutting the ship in half and all, they better be careful this time around.

Offline krumm47

Re: Episode 272
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2006, 04:31:50 PM »
Thanks Aaz!  :guts:

Now I feel I can safely say 'bloody awesome episode!'.  :serpico:

Oh yeh, sorta jumping back to the Guts - Superhero discussion, check out Guts on page 8. Very Superman, IMO. Personally I'm liking these superhero moments, whether they're intentional or not. Guts has always been known for being powerful, but he's never really had the ideology down. Now more than ever he seems to be fighting to protect others, other than just himself, his end goal and his own justice (and by now I mean the events that have taken place in Vrittanis). I suppose these moments are directly related to Guts' gradual opening up to others, and his growing bond with his 'band'.

But then again, I might be extrapolating a bit too much. He's done some superhero-ish things lately, but he's certainly not selfless, noble and pure quite yet, and isn't going to devote himself to the protection of the innocent people of "Europe"... j/k 

Thanks again for the scans! :serpico:


Offline Yami no Tsubasa

Re: Episode 272
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2006, 09:19:34 PM »
On a side note the water gun/tongue the snake used against Guts looks pretty dangerous, cutting the ship in half and all, they better be careful this time around.

Ouch... yeah, now I can see well the water blast (thanks to the new scans you posted of course :badbone:), this power could be a real pain in the ass for Guts if Casca, Farnese, Schierke´s body and even Isidro stays near, they could get easily targeted if Daiba is cunning enough to use this to his advantage.

Thanks again.

Edit : Wikipedia the best source for Berserk information ? BULLSHIT, have a look to the real Berserk encyclopedia baby :

http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/index.html 8)