Griffith's Origin

Ok, Walter, Aaz...I'll apologize right now just in case this is old news and I just missed it when I searched for it....

I was wondering about Griffith's parents...who were they exactly and what kind of info is there on them. This is where my speculation comes in...and probably where I get owned by Aaz...haha. But could it be at all possible that Griffith is like the moonchild? It wouldn't make sense for an eclipse to have taken place when Griffith was born considering his age but for some reason Griffith's unnatural presence when he was fully human seemed suspicious. For the record, if this really is just a stupid ass question I won't take offence to it getting shut down.

Borgoff said:

I was wondering about Griffith's parents...who were they exactly and what kind of info is there on them.

Click to expand...

Well, there isn't any information about them.

Borgoff said:

could it be at all possible that Griffith is like the moonchild?

Click to expand...

Not that I'm especially interested in owning you, but what is "like the moonchild" exactly? He's still a pretty mysterious character, we don't know much about him at all.

Borgoff said:

It wouldn't make sense for an eclipse to have taken place when Griffith was born considering his age but for some reason Griffith's unnatural presence when he was fully human seemed suspicious.

Click to expand...

Hmm, so you mean like the Demon Child? Like you said, it's impossible that Griffith was born during an Eclipse, and I doubt he has that sort of background anyway. He wasn't that unnatural either as a human IMO, he just had an incredible charisma and was an uncommon man altogether. Nothing surprising when you know what he was destined to be (a member of the God Hand).

Aazealh said:

what is "like the moonchild" exactly? He's still a pretty mysterious character, we don't know much about him at all.

Click to expand...

When I said that I basically was referring to their similarities as far as their mysterious entries into the story. Both of them 'appear' in a somewhat angelic fashion I guess you could say. Also Casca's first reactions to them are interesting as well. For the most part it's really just gut feeling at this point.

Aazealh said:

Hmm, so you mean like the Demon Child? Like you said, it's impossible that Griffith was born during an Eclipse, and I doubt he has that sort of background anyway. He wasn't that unnatural either as a human IMO, he just had an incredible charisma and was an uncommon man altogether. Nothing surprising when you know what he was destined to be (a member of the God Hand).

Click to expand...

Very true. I think when we learn better the origin of the moonchild in relation Griffith things will obviously make more sense. But my main speculation here is that maybe Griffith himself was somehow born the same way as the moonchild..? The Demon Child I would categorize with the reincarnated Griffith. It would represent outwardly the obvious change gone on inside Griffith.

On a side note...the moonchild's resemblance to Guts and even Casca possibly eludes to maybe another figure similar to Griffith rising up later on. This whole topic really is still unexplained but it does lead to some fun ideas.

Borgoff said:

When I said that I basically was referring to their similarities as far as their mysterious entries into the story. Both of them 'appear' in a somewhat angelic fashion I guess you could say. Also Casca's first reactions to them are interesting as well. For the most part it's really just gut feeling at this point.

Click to expand...

Well Ok, but Griffith's entry into the story wasn't really mysterious... It's just that we don't know much about his past. The child would rather relate to Skull Knight in that case. As for the angelic look I guess there is some resemblance, but it's overly superficial as far as I can tell (young, long hair, pretty?). I don't think there's more to it than that. I also don't see how Casca's first reactions have any interest in the context (feel free to develop your thoughts on it).

Borgoff said:

I think when we learn better the origin of the moonchild in relation Griffith things will obviously make more sense.

Click to expand...

That is assuming Griffith and the Moonlight Child are related, which is just an assumption for now.

Borgoff said:

But my main speculation here is that maybe Griffith himself was somehow born the same way as the moonchild..?

Click to expand...

But we don't know how the Moonlight Child was born... And I don't think Griffith was any special at birth. The Moonlight Child is a "superior being" and he apparently has tremendous astral powers, Griffith was just a cold, charismatic man with a dream he was willing to do anything for. An exceptional man, but a simple, mortal man nonetheless.

Borgoff said:

The Demon Child I would categorize with the reincarnated Griffith. It would represent outwardly the obvious change gone on inside Griffith.

Click to expand...

As far as we know there are remnants of the Demon Child inside Griffith (see what happened on the Hill of Swords). I'm not sure of what you're saying about that outward representation thing but I don't think I'd agree with it. This new person is Femto in a Griffith body with some parts of the original host (the Demon Child, from whom the body was created) remaining inside.

Borgoff said:

On a side note...the moonchild's resemblance to Guts and even Casca possibly eludes to maybe another figure similar to Griffith rising up later on.

Click to expand...

What do you mean by similar to Griffith? That he'd have a dream or become part of the God Hand? I doubt that. I also don't see how the resemblance to Guts and Casca hints at it. I think you need to bring some precisions to this whole theory of yours.

I pretty much agree with everything you just said. Thanks for helping me sort out some answers. What I meant with the last part about the moonchild being similar to Griffith would be assuming Griffith was somehow more than just a mere human from the beginning. (Because we don't really know how he entered the world. Although, even as I'm typing this now I'm realizing it's stretching a little too far.) I guess as far as this subject goes a bit more plot is needed to really have a solid guess as to the moonchild's role for the future. I do think though that the characters in the story that seem to rise above human expectation have beginnings/origins that play a factor in their success. Guts we know for example, and I'm speculating over Griffith. I'm pretty much going on a tangent here. There's still too much mystery for this thread I guess but thanks atleast for sorting out the little information available.

Borgoff said:

What I meant with the last part about the moonchild being similar to Griffith would be assuming Griffith was somehow more than just a mere human from the beginning. (Because we don't really know how he entered the world. Although, even as I'm typing this now I'm realizing it's stretching a little too far.)

Click to expand...

Yeah, I also think that's a bit far-fetched. I think we would know if it was the case, and to me it would lessen him to a certain degree. As a mere human his exploits were extraordinary, but as a supernatural being they wouldn't have been anything special, they'd be almost disappointing in fact. Now he who was a mere man has transcended his nature (he became Femto and fulfilled his destiny), like apostles and probably the other God Hand members did.

He was never "normal" in that his whole life was planned by the Idea of Evil and it was the result of a long process (see episode 83 for details). He was created for a specific purpose and was bound to become a superior being, but at his actual birth, I believe he was a simple man, although gifted. That's why it's interesting to see him fighting for his dream again in the current arc, but this time as a supernatural creature that was incarnated on earth.

Borgoff said:

I guess as far as this subject goes a bit more plot is needed to really have a solid guess as to the moonchild's role for the future.

Click to expand...

Yup, for now it's really hard to base ourselves on anything about him.

Borgoff said:

I do think though that the characters in the story that seem to rise above human expectation have beginnings/origins that play a factor in their success.

Click to expand...

But why? Nothing indicates this in the story.

Borgoff said:

Guts we know for example

Click to expand...

Guts' birth was unusual, not unnatural. He wasn't born as a supernatural being, he became one (sort of) through his life and the hardships he endured. I hope you're not stuck on the "Guts exists outside of fate" thing here because it's completely wrong and simply results from an old mistranslation.

Borgoff said:

There's still too much mystery for this thread I guess but thanks atleast for sorting out the little information available.

Click to expand...

You're welcome.

Aazealh said:

I hope you're not stuck on the "Guts exists outside of fate" thing here because it's completely wrong and simply results from an old mistranslation.

Click to expand...

No I definately don't think that. If he were outside of fate I doubt would refer to him as 'struggler' but maybe 'wanderer' or 'guy with big sword who does whatever the hell he wants' or something. I am glad we've arrived on the same page. Hopefully this thread doesn't end up just cluttering up the boards though. Maybe when the time comes it can be revived.

Borgoff said:

No I definately don't think that.

Click to expand...

Ok, sorry for asking but I prefer to be sure, it's unfortunately a pretty common misconception.

Borgoff said:

Maybe when the time comes it can be revived.

Click to expand...

You can count on it.

It's quite simple when you think about it. Griffith's backstory before he formed the Band of the Hawk can be easily inferred as being about an exceptional young man who rejected his common status in society by design and looked towards the symbol of a hawk as something that is above all status and other petty concerns.
Simply put, the reasons why Griffith is exceptional have already been clearly outlined. He is a culmination of the web of causality's work over what must have been an all but eternal span of time.

Forest Wraith said:

Simply put, the reasons why Griffith is exceptional have already been clearly outlined. He is a culmination of the web of causality's work over what must have been an all but eternal span of time.

Click to expand...

Casuality`s work made by Idea of Evil, I`m not sure about this, but I think that before recieving the Red Beherit Griffith was just a common child as we can see on the flashback (?) protected by Ubik and Conrad, wanting to go to "The Castle" with his friends as many children do. Let`s not forget also that he begun to form the Band of the Hawk just after he recieved the Beherit, so I supect his real ambition came with it. (as always, correct me if needed)

Yami no Tsubasa said:

Casuality

Click to expand...

Causality.

Yami no Tsubasa said:

Casuality`s work made by Idea of Evil, I`m not sure about this

Click to expand...

Well you should... It's best explained in the lost episode, like I said earlier.

Yami no Tsubasa said:

but I think that before recieving the Red Beherit Griffith was just a common child as we can see on the flashback (?) protected by Ubik and Conrad, wanting to go to "The Castle" with his friends as many children do.

Click to expand...

What we're shown during the Eclipse isn't what really happened when he was a kid. They're summarizing his life and manipulating him so he sacrifices his men more easily. And being in possession of the beherit didn't change him or his life, it was just part of "the plan".

Yami no Tsubasa said:

Let`s not forget also that he begun to form the Band of the Hawk just after he recieved the Beherit

Click to expand...

Did he? Where does it say so?

Yami no Tsubasa said:

so I supect his real ambition came with it.

Click to expand...

No, I don't think so. You have to understand that Griffith's life was planned so it would happen the way it did, it's not like he found a beherit by chance and suddenly decided that he'd be king someday.

Man, we`re quite aggressive today... well whatever, I`ll just clarify what i meant to say :

Well you should... It's in the lost episode, like I said earlier.

When I say "I`m not sure about this" I`m talking about whats coming next, not the lost episode, you forgot to read "but".

Did he? Where does it say so?

Where ? here :

http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/world/timeline/timeline.html

I`ll extract the text for you to be more specific :


No, I don't think so.

Thats fine with me man, I still suspect it was like that.

Yami no Tsubasa said:

Did he? Where does it say so?

Where ? here :

http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/world/timeline/timeline.html

I`ll extract the text for you to be more specific :

Griffith(Age 11) is given the Beherit. Soon after this, he begins forming the Hawks. ​

Click to expand...

READ THE GODDAMNED DISCLAIMER BEFORE THE TIMELINE. IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS TO NOT USE THE TIMELINE AS A BASIS FOR THEORIES, AS IT'S ALL CONJECTURE AND HERESAY, BASED ON RELATIVE TIME AND RELATIVE EVENTS.

Yami no Tsubasa said:

Man, we`re quite aggressive today...

Click to expand...

How so?! You asked people to correct you if needed... I'm doing just that. Where are the "aggressive" parts exactly? Please quote them.

Yami no Tsubasa said:

When I say "I`m not sure about this" I`m talking about whats coming next, not the lost episode, you forgot to read "but".

Click to expand...

I didn't forget to read anything, I replied to what you said in the context of what you were quoting. I see now how you meant your sentence to be read, but I took it differently because of your use of commas (it's a comma splice, you're supposed to be the one at fault here...). I think if you look at your line again you'll see how easily one could be confused. Anyway I confirmed your doubts so everything's fine, right?

Yami no Tsubasa said:

Where ? here :

http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/world/timeline/timeline.html

Click to expand...

Oh wow. And haven't you forgotten to read what pops up before you enter the Timeline? Guess Walter will have to reword that. Anyway nothing says this in the manga, so there's absolutely no reason to assume it. And the timeline doesn't even say he formed the Hawks just after, it says "soon after", probably because both things happened while he was young and it's convenient to cram it all in a short line (summarizing it quickly and efficiently).

Yami no Tsubasa said:

Thats fine with me man, I still suspect it was like that.

Click to expand...

Well then you're wrong to suspect it, what else can I say.