Author Topic: Puck!  (Read 9381 times)

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Offline Walter

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Re: Puck!
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2006, 06:05:17 PM »
It is possible, but IMHO the playfull nature of the species does not indicate that they would become resentfull.
Yeah, hehe. That's the revelation I had right as I finished writing my post  :judo:

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That would seem plausible, but there could still be other places that do not get mentioned simply because humans don't notice them. This is speculative and probably irrelevant, but it could matter in case that your theory of Hanafubuku Oh (and Puck) proves true.
That's a good point. I doubt humans have spread everywhere across the planet.  Hell, there may even be a "New World" just waiting to be discovered in Berserk, seeing as most of the action takes place on a single continent (discounting Eath and possibly the Kushan Empire).  However, I think we would have heard about these hypothetical other places through Flora. But then again, it's not like she could have told the group everything about the world.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Maddness

Re: Puck!
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2006, 12:51:39 PM »
I recall in an earlier episode... *checks*  Vol23 page 21  Puck is being asked by Guts about his homeworld, and after explaining it Puck says because he's bored, but after that he says to himself something about "I never thought i'd have to depend on him, but we need all the help we can get"  Now, to me, I think he was still thinking about his home when he made that statement. That makes me wonder if he's not there because he was sent out to find someone to help them with some sort of Crisis. This is me pulling some stuff out of nothing, based on pure speculation, but if this were happening, and Puck was sent out to find someone to help with said crisis, we could find ourselves starting a new arc at this point, with Guts and co handling the situation in Elfhelm, and while they're away Griffith getting one step closer if not obtaining his goal of taking over all of Midland, and once again uniting all under one banner, which you could say we haven't seen in 1000 years.  Guts and co would then return from Elfhelm to find that much has changed in the land of Humans.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 03:43:20 PM by Maddness »

Offline vlad

Re: Puck!
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2006, 12:54:53 PM »
A point of interest (for me at least) is Puck's role in causality. As it was mentioned before he played a major role in keeping Guts human (even saving his life) and he holds on to a Beherit. Since the introduction of the beast, however, his role has changed (perhaps on account of it being 'too much' for him to handle) into a more comic one. We've also gained a little insight into his past and homeland, though most of it is still a mystery. Taking into account his importance to the manga as a whole, it could be argued that his role in causality is far from spent. In that respect, IMHO the groups (eventual) arrival to Elfhelm will lead to a new transformation for him, a new change of role so to speak. What I'm trying to establish here is that it will lead to a revelation of some sort of hidden power or purpose. Not really saying that he'd turn out to be Hanafubuku Oh himself, something more in the lines of a special envoy, or a scout of some sorts. I mean it has been sort of hinted that the king of elves is a legendary and powerful creature, so I'm kinda hoping he has, in a way, started his own thread of causality using Puck as a means to whatever purpose (perhaps to bring the gang to Elfhelm, or even the Beherit).
Anyway, this has been a long rant on my part, hope you guys find it somewhat interesting :)
P.S. While posting this I overlooked the post by Maddness, heh sort of going in the same direction, sorry for sort of double-posting. :judo:
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 12:58:26 PM by vlad »

Offline yota821

Re: Puck!
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2006, 02:33:32 PM »
I recall in an earlier episode... *checks*  Vol23 page 21  Puck is being asked by Guts about his homeworld, and after explaining it Puck says because he's bored, but after that he says to himself something about "I never thought i'd have to depend on him, but we need all the help we can get" 

Actually, that was Guts speaking to himself, not Puck. 
I'm just a poor, wayfaring stranger.......just moving along to the next habitation of demons.....

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Puck!
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2006, 02:42:40 PM »
he says to himself something about "I never thought i'd have to depend on him, but we need all the help we can get"

That's Guts thinking there, not Puck.                      EDIT: Arg, beaten by yota821! =)

That makes me wonder if he's not there because he was sent out to find someone to help them with some sort of Crisis.

It can't be, besides it wouldn't make sense in the context of the story. They're going to Elfhelm to get help, not the other way around. It's still possible that they'll help resolve a crisis in Elfhelm however, but that's not the reason they're going there, and Puck doesn't have any such goal. Let's not forget that for all we know, Puck could be 30 years old and having been wandering the world for over 10 years.

while they're away Griffith getting one step closer if not obtaining his goal of taking over all of Midland, and once again uniting all under one banner, which you could say we haven't seen in 1000 years.  Guts and co would then return from Elfhelm to find that much has changed in the land of Humans.

That's possible and even probable, but it doesn't necessarily need a crisis to come true.

Since the introduction of the beast, however, his role has changed (perhaps on account of it being 'too much' for him to handle) into a more comic one.

I'm not sure the evolution of his character is related to the Beast of Darkness. As a matter of fact it started earlier, basically with his reappearance (volume 14). And he has always been a "comic" character anyway, since volume 01.

Taking into account his importance to the manga as a whole, it could be argued that his role in causality is far from spent.

That's dangerous ground you're adventuring yourself on here. Elves aren't human but elemental in essence, and they're fundamentally good and unpredictable. The laws of causality are very complex and so far the only being that has been confirmed as truly manipulating them is the Idea of Evil, which was born from mankind. We don't really know if there are limits to its use, but if there's one it probably has to do with elves. Although I've humorously advocated the idea of Puck being a sleeping agent of Idea in the past myself (check this out, definite proof!), I think it's hard to argue that Puck plays a role in the Idea of Evil's plans for now (and this is what "having a role in causality" implies here). I think he still has an important role to play in the story of course, perhaps even in actually disturbing the laws of Causality by his unpredictable nature.

In that respect, IMHO the groups (eventual) arrival to Elfhelm will lead to a new transformation for him, a new change of role so to speak.

Well, we'll most probably learn a lot about his origins and backstory, so that'll definitely add a new dimension to his character no matter what happens. I don't think Miura will suppress his mischievous aspect though.

Not really saying that he'd turn out to be Hanafubuku Oh himself, something more in the lines of a special envoy, or a scout of some sorts. I mean it has been sort of hinted that the king of elves is a legendary and powerful creature, so I'm kinda hoping he has, in a way, started his own thread of causality using Puck as a means to whatever purpose (perhaps to bring the gang to Elfhelm, or even the Beherit).

Hmm well that doesn't really fit with what we know of Puck so far. And the fact they're headed to Elfhelm was in no way brought upon by Puck, it's just what he came up with as an alternative to staying in Godot's cave after its destruction. Considering that, your hypothesis sounds unlikely to me. As for the Hanafubuku using Causality... That doesn't fit the character of elves IMHO (manipulating the world, people, etc), that would imply he has a considerable insight into the world (close to omnipresent), and that his power is immense, higher than that of the God Hand. Finally, it'd imply his "thread of causality" included the Idea of Evil's own plans or "corrupted" them as Guts decided to head there after his confrontation with Griffith and Zodd. Now that'd be quite something.

Offline vlad

Re: Puck!
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2006, 03:43:23 PM »
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Although I've humorously advocated the idea of Puck being a sleeping agent of Idea in the past myself (check this out, definite proof!), I think it's hard to argue that Puck plays a role in the Idea of Evil's plans for now (and this is what "having a role in causality" implies here).
Wow, funny enough that was the picture that sort of drove me to this whole rant :)
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As for the Hanafubuku using Causality... That doesn't fit the character of elves IMHO (manipulating the world, people, etc), that would imply he has a considerable insight into the world (close to omnipresent), and that his power is immense, higher than that of the God Hand. Finally, it'd imply his "thread of causality" included the Idea of Evil's own plans or "corrupted" them as Guts decided to head there after his confrontation with Griffith and Zodd. Now that'd be quite something.
Again I seem to be guilty of missusing the term causality (can't seem to shake the notion it correlates to other things than just the Idea's plan, but I'm working on it :judo:). My actual line of thought would be that Hanafubuku Oh is sort of aware of causality and is working against it, either by gathering and helping allays or by trying to learn more about the enemy (via the Beherit). This would sort of make him an extremely powerful creature, but hey I got this thing about elves ;). On the other hand, as you pointed out, Puck didn't really suggest they go there, so that does throw a wrench into the workings. Still I would like to see some force of good, so to speak, (apart for what's been speculated about the elemental kings) working with some sort of plan to counter the immensity of evil we seem to be facing.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Puck!
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2006, 04:04:41 PM »
(can't seem to shake the notion it correlates to other things than just the Idea's plan, but I'm working on it :judo:).

Well, it doesn't just relate to the Idea of Evil of course, but to actually use it to achieve one's ends requires a lot of knowledge of everything as well as to be able to plan (or know) what will happen in the future, or even to be able to influence everything so that it all contributes to the desired result. In theory anybody can use "causality," but we're talking about something beyond human comprehension here (like planning the whole life of a person, or events on a grand scale, etc). That's why I say that if the Hanafubuku had used Causality to bring the group to Elfhelm in this specific way he would have to be extremely powerful. Causality's a complex topic in any case, it could have its own thread if only we knew enough to be able to discuss it seriously.

My actual line of thought would be that Hanafubuku Oh is sort of aware of causality and is working against it, either by gathering and helping allays or by trying to learn more about the enemy (via the Beherit). This would sort of make him an extremely powerful creature, but hey I got this thing about elves ;).

To make things clear, I'm sure he knows about the laws of Causality already, as well as beherits and the God Hand. Flora knew, SK knows, so in my mind it's clear he knows too. Now I really don't think he sent Puck on a mission to get a beherit. As far as the story goes to me, he learned about it first in volume 01/02 and just grew attached to it after years of "living" together with it in Guts' pouch. More importantly, nothing hints at a desire from Puck to bring it somewhere (he could have stolen it from Guts at any time) or do anything specific with it except from the funny scene at Flora's mansion, which in itself doesn't mean that much. Besides I don't believe the King would need one to learn more about it, assuming his legend is well-founded. Same with gathering allies, the whole thing is so coincidental and resulting from various "unpredictable" events (Zodd destroying the mine?)... And Puck never seems to be up to something or to be aware of more than he admits in the story, at least until volume 28. Plus like I said earlier, we don't even know how long he's been gone from Elfhelm. If I exaggerated I could say it might have been hundreds of years, and what proves otherwise? He never seemed to have something specific to do or a mission of any kind.

There's much more to be said on his behavior in the series so far and what he could have known or guessed till now, I'll try to post about it later.

Still I would like to see some force of good, so to speak, (apart for what's been speculated about the elemental kings) working with some sort of plan to counter the immensity of evil we seem to be facing.

Well I think it's still possible that the Hanafubuku and his subjects will be helpful in that regard, but seeing how they've secluded themselves in a hidden haven I don't they plan to counter the evil of the world. To me it looks more like they've decided to stop caring about human affairs.

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Re: Puck!
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2006, 07:49:37 PM »
Pck being created to keep Berserk from being too dark might have been the best thing. To be honest, it doesn't quite work for me since much of the golden arc has no Puck at all till the very end and after Puck ups more humor, especially with his new counterpart. Now now, I love Puck, just saying that purpose wise, (which is good) he doesn't distract from the dark and gritty world of Berserk at all.

Offline chaoscontrol

Re: Puck!
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2006, 06:58:38 AM »
Couldnt it be that Puck IS the Elf king?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Puck!
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2006, 08:54:37 AM »
Couldnt it be that Puck IS the Elf king?

Many people thought about it because of his enigmatic reaction when Schierke announced the existence of the Elf King to the group, but to be honest it isn't very likely.

Offline chaoscontrol

Re: Puck!
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2006, 11:29:33 AM »
Please explain.
What doesnt make it likely?

Maybe they want us to believe it isnt likely so we will be stunned when it is so :P

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Puck!
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2006, 12:24:44 PM »
What doesnt make it likely?

There are like a hundred reasons... Among them that if Puck had the power to cure Casca he would have done so long ago (it's not like he has any reason to hide his identity either), and that if he was the Hanafubuku then SK would have told Guts so, instead of just saying he was in Elfhelm. If you take the context of the story into account then there's no good reason to think Puck could be that Elf King. It'd only be a cheap and useless twist.

Offline chaoscontrol

Re: Puck!
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2006, 12:38:11 PM »
Yeah you are right..
I do think Puck still has a "Greater" goal though.

Might not be so important as the Elf King from elfhelm but it could sure be something great which is connected to the Elf King. (<--- is a bit easier to type then Hanafubuku :P)

Like, perhaps Puck is his son and detests (hates?) him, which could be why he doesn't really wanne talk about it. But if that were so he'd surely object going to Elfhelm. (Well maybe he did already but I'm still at Volume 28 :P)

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Puck!
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2006, 06:34:38 PM »
I do think Puck still has a "Greater" goal though.

Who knows, why not. That would certainly be well-played on his part, because nothing has filtered so far.

Like, perhaps Puck is his son and detests (hates?) him, which could be why he doesn't really wanne talk about it. But if that were so he'd surely object going to Elfhelm. (Well maybe he did already but I'm still at Volume 28 :P)

Well since he's the one that proposed to go to Elfhelm in the first place, I doubt he'd object to it after all that time. They're already on the boat anyway so it's a bit late for that.

Offline DoM

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Re: Puck!
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2006, 10:07:57 AM »
That's a good point. I doubt humans have spread everywhere across the planet. Hell, there may even be a "New World" just waiting to be discovered in Berserk, seeing as most of the action takes place on a single continent (discounting Eath and possibly the Kushan Empire). However, I think we would have heard about these hypothetical other places through Flora. But then again, it's not like she could have told the group everything about the world.

Didn't Magnifico and Roderick discuss about something like that? About the importance of sailing in the future, to discover the new lands noone has ever put their feet on or something like that.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Puck!
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2006, 11:25:06 AM »
Didn't Magnifico and Roderick discuss about something like that? About the importance of sailing in the future, to discover the new lands noone has ever put their feet on or something like that.

Roderick in particular did. He talked about his country and how they weren't taking advantage of their shipbuilding and navigating skills. I believe Magnifico was being more figurative about it.

Offline Dirty Dog

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Re: Puck!
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2006, 06:52:28 AM »
heh, I love puck.
and if you don't, you're a fairie. and not the cool fantasy kind.

Anyway, I do think that Puck's role as a serious character in berserk is over [aside from a few chance occasions], and ended when Isidro, Farnese, and Serpico started travelling with Guts.

I doubt that Puck is the Elf King (makes no sense. if he were the "legendary" elf king, things would be far easier for Guts (not to mention, he probably could've managed to save Vargas in Volume 2/3, which would've greatly dulled the plot)), or even a relation.

I think that Puck may have been kicked out of the elf kingdom or something (why else would the poor guy be out in the human world?), and that's why he doesn't want to talk about the king. However, the fact that Puck has considered taking the group there would probably mean I'm wrong, because Puck doesn't seem the type to go against a banishment.
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Reject the world as it is. It must be superceded before it can be valued.