Author Topic: Episode 275  (Read 43967 times)

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Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #100 on: June 09, 2006, 10:23:09 PM »
Sounds likely enough. So far, Guts group has done the apostle army a favor by getting rid of the greatest obstacles against them, so the least they could do would be to let them pass. Hard to say whenever the apostles would let an ikenie go that easy however...

Interesting bit: Daiba seem to know about the brand, judging by his reaction. wonder why - if his knowledge if it is the cause - he advises Ganishka against doing it?

This is the first time we've seen Ganishka's teeth in his current from too. Hmm...

This should be the moment Skull Knight referred to at the beach, so I wonder if that means that Griffith will appear before Guts & Co and Ganishka too?

Well thats the thing, never said anything about the other apostles, just Zodd.  :SK:
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Offline Dark Wanderer

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #101 on: June 09, 2006, 10:37:55 PM »
Point. Okay, Zodd might let'em pass. Assuming they meet each other, of course; he seem rather busy for the time being :P. and if they do, he may decide that he wants to fight Guts (his favourite hobby! :troll: ) instead  ::)
Peace is a lie, there is only passion
Through passion, I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power, I gain victory
Through victory, my chains are broken
The Force shall free me.

Offline coolerimmortal

Re: Episode 275
« Reply #102 on: June 09, 2006, 10:46:46 PM »
Amazing episode. I loved it...probably my favorite episode since Guts first put on the Berserker armor. It looks like we're about to get one hell of an epic battle...I suspect we'll be seeing it for the next few months, at the very least. It's a pity Guts is already so damaged, though...looks like he won't be able to do too much this time around.

Perhaps Guts and his band of merry wanderers will simply board the ship and escape while Ganishka is distracted by the Hawks? I'm sure it won't proceed exactly like that, but I can see Guts and his gang fleeing the scene and setting sale for Elfhelm. Then, of course, we would get a series of episodes depicting the battle between Ganishka and the other Apostles...That sounds good to me. Afterwards, we'd get a few episodes on the boat, and then they would reach Elfhelm. I believe the remainder of the current volume and the entirety of the next will consist of what I just described, with the final page being their arrival. Mind you, this is pure speculation, but it seems quite likely to me, considering Guts and his crew aren't able to fight anywhere near their usual level, so they will want to flee.

Offline justanotherwave

Re: Episode 275
« Reply #103 on: June 09, 2006, 11:09:50 PM »
thanks.
i did a quick search, and i didn't really see anything relevant to this series of events (the way the story is unfolding insofar), therefore i have a question: has anyone considered what effect it might have on casca (regarding her present state of mind/condition) if griffith were to show up and how that could effect the story in the future?

if so, and my search was somehow conducted using only half my ass i humbly apologize.


Offline coolerimmortal

Re: Episode 275
« Reply #104 on: June 09, 2006, 11:27:01 PM »
thanks.
i did a quick search, and i didn't really see anything relevant to this series of events (the way the story is unfolding insofar), therefore i have a question: has anyone considered what effect it might have on casca (regarding her present state of mind/condition) if griffith were to show up and how that could effect the story in the future?

if so, and my search was somehow conducted using only half my ass i humbly apologize.



Well, our only reference is the Hill of Swords, and not much really happened in relation to Casca's mindset, if I recall.

Offline tokken_brz

Re: Episode 275
« Reply #105 on: June 10, 2006, 12:47:47 AM »
Im pretty sure Ganishka s gona use Guts for his army . Even against Guts will.

Maybe hell keep Casca emprisioned to force Guts to fight.
Or using Magic powers, he may control/release the beast on Guts .. anyway, the "no" Guts gave him wont be taken that easy..

Ganishka is teased by Guts power , he could push the black swordsman even more far from his humanity..

Or give him a new flesh arm !! What do u think ?  :guts:

Offline Donald Shimoda

Re: Episode 275
« Reply #106 on: June 10, 2006, 12:53:28 AM »
Im pretty sure Ganishka s gona use Guts for his army . Even against Guts will.

Maybe hell keep Casca emprisioned to force Guts to fight.
Or using Magic powers, he may control/release the beast on Guts .. anyway, the "no" Guts gave him wont be taken that easy..

Ganishka is teased by Guts power , he could push the black swordsman even more far from his humanity..

Or give him a new flesh arm !! What do u think ?  :guts:


I think Guts will never serve under Ganishka. Pluss, that would ruin the story (imo), I don't want to see Guts being some kinda forced pawn of Ganishka.

I don't think Guts is really mean't to be a pawn of someone else anymore, except maybe skull knight but he isn't really skull knights pawn, more of his friend. Why else has Miura been making him stronger if only to still be a pawn of other forces? He already was a pawn of griffith.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2006, 01:00:16 AM by Donald Shimoda »

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #107 on: June 10, 2006, 01:02:06 AM »
Im pretty sure Ganishka s gona use Guts for his army . Even against Guts will.

Maybe hell keep Casca emprisioned to force Guts to fight.
Or using Magic powers, he may control/release the beast on Guts .. anyway, the "no" Guts gave him wont be taken that easy..

Ganishka is teased by Guts power , he could push the black swordsman even more far from his humanity..

Or give him a new flesh arm !! What do u think ? :guts:

I don't think any of those predictions are going to come to fruition, sorry. First off, Ganishka's going to have his hands full with the Neo Hawk Apostles arriving to take on his forces. I also don't see the story moving to Guts working as Ganishka's slave because the Emperor of Terror captured Casca and is holding her hostage. I think Ganishka sees Guts as a good addition to his army, but not enough that he must have him in it in order to destroy Griffith. As for Ganishka having the ability to draw the Beast out of Guts and cause him to lose control, I don't think he'd need any special powers for that (after all, we know how Guts feels about Apostles). As for a new flesh arm......there's just no way.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2006, 03:22:53 PM by Rhombaad »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #108 on: June 10, 2006, 01:03:24 AM »
Zodd's entrance was perfect too.  Slaughtering all the Daka in his path and chomping that ones head off with his mouth!

Yeah, that was great, it reminded me of volume 5.

Oh, and I can't really tell, but does Ganishka toast Daiba on page 7?

Yup, he shuts him up. :guts:

It looks like we're about to get one hell of an epic battle...I suspect we'll be seeing it for the next few months, at the very least. It's a pity Guts is already so damaged, though...looks like he won't be able to do too much this time around. Perhaps Guts and his band of merry wanderers will simply board the ship and escape while Ganishka is distracted by the Hawks?

I think it's highly probable that Guts & co will end up fleeing in the general confusion, finally getting on their ship. They might encounter a few apostles on the way but they wouldn't go all out. It's either that or Guts and Ganishka fighting back to back while cursing each other ("Once this is all over..."), the ultimate buddy movie action time. Then all that'll be left is for us to learn that Casca's in fact Ganishka's daughter, and it'll be perfect. :void:

therefore i have a question: has anyone considered what effect it might have on casca (regarding her present state of mind/condition) if griffith were to show up and how that could effect the story in the future?

I imagine she would react similarly to the way she did in Albion and on the Hill of Swords. She'd see her child in him and want to go to him. But there's hardly any way to know for sure. Other than that I don't think it'd have any effect on the development of the story as long as the group would take her away and Griffith ignore her.

Im pretty sure Ganishka s gona use Guts for his army . Even against Guts will. Maybe hell keep Casca emprisioned to force Guts to fight. Or using Magic powers, he may control/release the beast on Guts .. anyway, the "no" Guts gave him wont be taken that easy..

I don't think that'll happen. Guts said no, and Ganishka replied "then I'll kill you for what you did to my troops." I don't see why he'd change his decision all of a sudden. They could be forced to cooperate against Griffith in the current situation at Vritannis, but that'd be a bit different. Holding Casca hostage is unlikely because Ganishka doesn't know she's important to Guts, and I doubt that would work anyway. Then there's the fact the Demon Child in Griffith might not appreciate it. Not at all. As for awaking the Beast and controlling it... That's very speculative and for now we have no reason to believe Ganishka has the power to do it.

Or give him a new flesh arm !! What do u think ?

I doubt that.

Offline Dark Wanderer

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #109 on: June 10, 2006, 01:45:19 AM »
I don't think that'll happen. Guts said no

I wonder if anyone really expected another answer, even if this is miura we're talking about. Guts said since way back (vol 10, to be exact) that he won't swing his sword for anyone else again. Thus, since Ganishka literally asked him to become "his underling", I was sure that he'd say no (plus there's also the fact that Ganishka's an apostle). An alliance of sorts might not be unthinkable, but for Guts to become an underling... been there, done that ::)
Peace is a lie, there is only passion
Through passion, I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power, I gain victory
Through victory, my chains are broken
The Force shall free me.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #110 on: June 10, 2006, 02:07:59 AM »
I wonder if anyone really expected another answer, even if this is miura we're talking about.

Of course, knowing the character it was hard not to think he'd said that. I think people had already agreed on it 3 episodes ago.

Guts said since way back (vol 10, to be exact) that he won't swing his sword for anyone else again.

Well, he swings his sword for Casca now. :casca:

Offline Woland

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #111 on: June 10, 2006, 02:43:27 AM »


Or give him a new flesh arm !! What do u think ?  :guts:

Or we could see a Planescape: Torment type scenario where he'd give Guts a new eyeball to pop in.
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Offline xbigvmanx

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #112 on: June 10, 2006, 04:23:53 PM »
Which do you guys think is the lesser of two evils? Ganishka or Griffith? Personally Ganishka methods are just too brutal so if i had to choose I'd choose with the Devil i know which is Griffith.

Offline Dark Wanderer

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #113 on: June 10, 2006, 04:33:08 PM »
Which do you guys think is the lesser of two evils? Ganishka or Griffith? Personally Ganishka methods are just too brutal so if i had to choose I'd choose with the Devil i know which is Griffith.

I wonder if we're really seen the true extent of Griffith's evil yet. I think that to the core, both of them aren't too different, they'd use anyone and anything if that allows them to succeed with their various goals. Griffith as he is now may appear to be the lesser evil, but later on...?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion
Through passion, I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power, I gain victory
Through victory, my chains are broken
The Force shall free me.

Offline bodhista

Re: Episode 275
« Reply #114 on: June 10, 2006, 08:14:09 PM »
It feels like Miura is setting up another difficult decision for Guts.  If Griffith's shows up (like I imagine he will), and if Guts finds out (like I imagine he will), he will once again have to decide between satisfying his desire for revenge or protecting Casca and Co and escaping. 

Obviously Guts is in no condition whatsoever to be going up against Griffith, or really anyone for that matter, at this point in time.  But we all know this isn't going to stop Guts. 

Or who knows, maybe Guts will simply have no more energy left after this encounter with Ganishka. The group might be forced to take care of him, find a ship, and escape Vritannis without dying on their own. 

Either way, these next few episodes should prove very, very interesting!
Oh, and thanks Aaz for the HQ scans, and thanks Puella & Saiki and everyone else who helped out with the translation!

Offline Jhot obs

Re: Episode 275
« Reply #115 on: June 10, 2006, 09:20:21 PM »
Which do you guys think is the lesser of two evils? Ganishka or Griffith? Personally Ganishka methods are just too brutal so if i had to choose I'd choose with the Devil i know which is Griffith.
I don't think Ganishka and Griffith are that much different in their core values. Both want to control their lives and have a kingdom to rule, but go about it differently. We haven't seen Griffith do anything remotely evil yet on account there was no need, at least on the level Ganishka did it. Naturally, we'll have to wait and see how Griffith handles things when opportunity to abuse power presents itself: There is the prophesy that Farnese and Schierke mentioned about an age of darkness following the Falcon's rule (not to mention what Slan said back at the Eclipse). Frankly, I just think Ganishka doesn't make the effort to hide the fact that he's a power-hungry glutton without a care for anything else. Griffith at least looks the part of the divine savior in Midland's darkest hour.

It feels like Miura is setting up another difficult decision for Guts. If Griffith's shows up (like I imagine he will), and if Guts finds out (like I imagine he will), he will once again have to decide between satisfying his desire for revenge or protecting Casca and Co and escaping.
Yeah, another choice between protecting and avenging. However, I don't think the choice of engaging Griffith's a good option either; Guts' exhausted at the moment and he's got companions to protect. I envision something like what happened at Flora's manor, with crazy shit going on, they'll all make a break for it when the chance provides them.

I just don't see Guts' group having a major impact against the apostles, at least in combat, now. With the Young Animal blurb Puella mentioned about Ganishka vs. flying apostles, this is the ideal distraction for the group to get to whereever Roderick's ship is and book it out of town. There's going to be more obstacles in their way (a few makara are left, but they could be engaging Griffith's aquatic apostles) that I can't foresee, but I think this is it action-wise for Guts. Maybe in a few episodes, they'll reunite with Azan and maybe get more insight into what's going on with the Holy See (or at least an explanation as to what happened to Azan), but that's looking ahead a little too far.

Now, I'm interested in episode 276 with how the city's denizens interpret these monsters fighting other monsters. Particularly Lord Vandimion and the Sovereign Pontiff. How is Griffith/the Pontiff going to explain Zodd to the nobles at the city hall and the Holy See?How soon until the group puts all their pieces about Guts' life together to figure out his relation to Griffith? Will Daiba get bitchslapped again by Ganishka? :???:

Find out on 6/23! :troll:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #116 on: June 10, 2006, 10:10:32 PM »
Which do you guys think is the lesser of two evils? Ganishka or Griffith? Personally Ganishka methods are just too brutal so if i had to choose I'd choose with the Devil i know which is Griffith.

I think down the line Ganishka will prove to be the lesser of the two. Aside from being a monster he's not too different from your typical warmongering tyrant. He just wants to be the king of the world, can't blame him. And he was surprisingly considerate with Charlotte, giving her time to prepare herself to become his wife, only to end the war without causing more losses. He's definitely brutal and "Emperor of Terror" says it all, but at least he goes at it full on. He knows who he's up against and that he has to give it all his resources. We won't be surprised in 3 volumes discovering that he's horrible because we've already seen (most of) the extent of his horror. I actually think he'd be a much kinder ruler once the war would be over (if he won).

On the contrary, do you really know Griffith? Do you know what he thinks or what he'll do? I don't think so. Since his incarnation he's been a mystery. It's not Griffith from the good old days. And the prophecy's about him: he'll bring an era of darkness. For now he's a savior and who wouldn't join him? Mule was so overwhelmed he didn't even know what he was doing. But in the end... I'm sure Ganishka won't look so bad anymore.

It feels like Miura is setting up another difficult decision for Guts.  If Griffith's shows up (like I imagine he will), and if Guts finds out (like I imagine he will), he will once again have to decide between satisfying his desire for revenge or protecting Casca and Co and escaping.

It's what SK told him about back on the beach. Given the current situation I think he'll end up fleeing with the group, but that might indeed not be an easy choice. Maybe he'll be irrational and unable to refrain himself if Griffith appears, maybe he'll go at it with some apostles before being carried away by his companions. He can't realistically fight the Neo Hawks without losing right now, and if they don't move out it's going to become very dangerous very fast. Cutting their way through Daka is one thing, doing the same with apostles is another. Ganishka probably won't be able to do much against them since he'll be occupied, so missing that chance would be an error IMO and would likely mean they'd have to stay till the very end of the battle (i.e. not a good thing).

Now, I'm interested in episode 276 with how the city's denizens interpret these monsters fighting other monsters. Particularly Lord Vandimion and the Sovereign Pontiff. How is Griffith/the Pontiff going to explain Zodd to the nobles at the city hall and the Holy See?

Yeah, that should prove to be interesting. I wonder if Griffith can alter their perception of what happens or something. Like they'd see angels fighting the Kushans or something like that (in a way similar to what the Pontiff saw in episode 264).

Offline coolerimmortal

Re: Episode 275
« Reply #117 on: June 11, 2006, 05:26:12 AM »
I believe Ganishka is the lesser of the two evils. Remember, Griffith is a member of the Godhand. I just get a feeling from him...he's a lot worse, methinks.

One thing I think will happen on the boat ride to Elfhelm is the group discovering Guts' past. They're not idiots...between their suspicions, or rather, their mentions of the 100 Man Slayer of the Band of the Hawk, and what Ganishka has been saying to Guts, they should be able to figure things out. They'll piece enough together to get Guts to tell them the whole bloody tale...at least, that's what I'd like to see.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #118 on: June 11, 2006, 06:19:03 AM »
One thing I think will happen on the boat ride to Elfhelm is the group discovering Guts' past. [...] They'll piece enough together to get Guts to tell them the whole bloody tale...

Yeah, and most importantly they'll need something to occupy themselves with, sea trips can be long you know. :void:

Offline vlad

Re: Episode 275
« Reply #119 on: June 11, 2006, 08:08:07 AM »
Yeah, that should prove to be interesting. I wonder if Griffith can alter their perception of what happens or something. Like they'd see angels fighting the Kushans or something like that (in a way similar to what the Pontiff saw in episode 264).
They (apostles) could provide for an even bigger contrast to Griffith's already fairytale appearance. I mean he would come of as the one who, not only defeated the beasts, but also tamed them. Anyway it plays out I also believe that the Pontiff will have a crucial role in convincing the people *there there, they're all gone, no need to be scared*

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #120 on: June 11, 2006, 08:44:14 AM »
They (apostles) could provide for an even bigger contrast to Griffith's already fairytale appearance. I mean he would come of as the one who, not only defeated the beasts, but also tamed them.

Good point. "Taming the beasts..." The monsters bowing down to him. Yeah, that'd definitely be quite something to see. :SK:

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #121 on: June 11, 2006, 02:17:09 PM »
Yeah, and most importantly they'll need something to occupy themselves with, sea trips can be long you know. :void:

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Offline Feanor

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Re: Episode 275
« Reply #122 on: June 11, 2006, 04:41:55 PM »
I thought about the ganishka - griffith thing and i think griffith is far more worse
than ganishka because griffith pretends to  be good and so he is able to cheat the "blind white Shep's". Besides, he is a member of the godhand.
Somehow a i have the feeling that the moment will come when guts and ganishka are forced to draw swords together against griffith.

Offline Sparnage

Re: Episode 275
« Reply #123 on: June 11, 2006, 06:43:58 PM »
Yeah Sparny, I mean, this may sound odd, but the translations rarely reveal anything to me at this point besides minor details. It's hard to explain because it's an intangeable thing, but when you follow the story so closely, figuring out the context of one episode against the rest isn't too difficult, as a matter of fact, it's intuitive (like how if you can't use one sense, others compensate).

Fair enough. I have heard of people that intentionally do similar things like watch movies without any audio whatsoever, so they can see the story in a different sense.
I can respect that, not really my thing though I guess aside this episode. I usually hold out for the juicy translated piece to make it whole, this particular Episode was an exception due to my impatience.

Quote
I know Miura's writing style, his pacing, his way of depicting things (remember, he's first and foremost a visual storyteller), I know the characters, how they think, how they talk, and along with their facial expressions get the gist of what they're saying, in many cases exactly. Of course, I also spot character names and important subjects, like if they're talking about a certain "hawk" for example. So, it's not so crazy as you think, and like Aaz said, a lot of the important details are really sutble things in the imagery, not the words (as a matter of fact, it's usually the most obvious stuff). So, I find it very important for my understanding that I go through it without the translation first, it's most important even for understanding the specific episode and the details within it. Sometimes only focusing on the text from page to page can even be a distraction, words are only one aspect of Miura's story.

Yes, not just with this Manga, after reading many titles, the visual elements of the story comes naturally with experience, my brief summary I mentioned of the Episode was not meant literally.
I had suspected even before the Episode, as others probably did that Ganishka might want to ask Guts to join his army.
I don't know if you thought Ganishka would be asking that at that point in the raws before you read the translation. Still, with the raws alone it seemed possible that he could be asking on page 6 onwards, but he could've also been telling Guts something completely different, giving him that stunned look for other reasons. This was also the most important part of the Episode to me.

You can guess and assume what's going on, even with good accuracy but unless you were 100% certain (and how many people are?), it makes all the difference and changes the whole perception of the story once it's concrete IMO.

Quote
This isn't to slight the importantance of the translations; obviously, you couldn't do what I describe above without all the previous translations, so they're critical for understading the story at large over the long haul (duh). I'll never be able to understand the story as well as someone that can read Japanese, but going episode by episode in such detail like this and then reading the translations available at least gives me the best chance, and keeps me involved in thinking about Berserk on a deeper level.

Yes, I can't help but feel if the context of the story was so understandable without the dialogue, then certain individuals wouldn't become so pedantic over the most mild of translation differences.
And that's fine to me, it's seeking the ultimate understanding of the story, otherwise it could easily be taken into a different context to what it was originally intended to be.


You can see more than that, you just have to pay attention. It's not the first time I tell you that either, and you've missed plot points and misunderstood things even with a translation in the past, so much for your credibility. Reading (looking at the pretty pictures) carefully is as important as having a translation, sometimes more. You can also guess what's being said, it's not that hard thanks to Miura's awesome skill with depicting emotions. It's what composes most of the discussions about episodes, guessing what's happening.

I do understand this. As I said, my summary wasn't meant to be taken so literally. So the visuals are as important as the translation or more, that still leaves alot of significance to be left on the dialogue, for me that's enough to wait for.

Quote
Yeah, people often repeat the same stuff, that's because they're grateful and don't have much more to say. It doesn't mean they don't get what's happening and reply like robots though, so quit with your half-assed contempt. That post of yours is worthless, and it starts by "thanks for the scans," which you probably even aren't (thankful), so please don't rant about others'.

OK, I didn't mean to sound so obnoxious but please don't question my gratitude, I wouldn't say it if I wasn't.

Quote
Then how about you work on it? You're learning Japanese right? Move your ass and contribute something. Type the text to facilitate the translation.

If I ever get to the point where I can contribute something useful to the translation then I will happily, but I'm not going to pretend for a second I know enough to contribute anything of any real significance, nor have I ever implied that. Unless you consider typing the Hiragana and Katakana into unknown words to be while waiting for the proper translation, I suppose I could do that.


Offline kimedog

Re: Episode 275
« Reply #124 on: June 11, 2006, 08:26:26 PM »
Great episode, thanks aaz.

Now what do the power of those flying apostles have...
I bet a few of them have the power to attract lightning *zap*.

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I ENJOY EVERY MINUTE OF IT!!!