Griffith's Concubine

If Griffith had the choice between Guts w/ Berserk armor or Zodd to be his protector, do you still think he would pick Zodd? Or just have Zodd take Casca's place? (joke.) What I mean is, do you think Griffith still holds Guts in somewhat of the same position in his mind as before the eclipse? Enough to perhaps even want him to join the neo-hawks? It seems like Griffith is already aware that Guts as a role in his dream and is just allowing the events to unfold. But if Zodd didn't jump all over it do you think Griffith would've tried to take Guts as his new bitch?

This has been discussed so much that I won't detail my answers too much, I hope you don't mind.

Borgoff said:

do you think Griffith still holds Guts in somewhat of the same position in his mind as before the eclipse?

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I would say no. Currently Griffith's feelings for Guts are very complicated, that's the least we can say. Guts obviously meant a lot to him before the Occultation, but when he became Femto we can assume he completely stopped caring about him, not even bothering to kill him when they met again. However after his incarnation, the Demon Child started parasiting Griffith's emotions with his own. So for now, while Griffith did react to Guts when he saw him, I don't think it'd be correct to say he holds him in the same position as before.

And to come back on your comparison between Zodd and Guts, it isn't that incongruous to think so actually. Zodd does fill a position in the Neo Hawks that can easily be compared to that of Guts in the original army.

Borgoff said:

Enough to perhaps even want him to join the neo-hawks?

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Well, he had the occasion to ask him, he even asked Rickert. But he didn't. One could argue that it was because he knew Guts would refuse, but why not ask anyway? If only for the irony of it all. So I don't think he would. You could also say that he's in denial and won't acknowledge Guts no matter what happens too. Asking him to become part of his army would be like admitting that after all of what he's done, he still needs Guts' help. That'd be pretty sad for him honestly.

Borgoff said:

It seems like Griffith is already aware that Guts as a role in his dream and is just allowing the events to unfold.

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I don't think so. To me Griffith is just ignoring Guts because acknowledging him as dangerous would be losing in a way. That's IMO one of the reasons he let him go when he could have killed him, because he doesn't want to admit the importance Guts still has in his life. He wants to prove him that he's insignificant. And I think that's what will eventually lead to his downfall, because when he'll have no choice but to face the truth it'll be too late.

Borgoff said:

But if Zodd didn't jump all over it do you think Griffith would've tried to take Guts as his new bitch?

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You mean on the Hill of Swords? Griffith had obviously planned the fight between them, to see what he would feel while watching it, so the question is irrelevant. But even if Guts had managed to get to him... I think he would have sent him flying away and just left, not killing him.

Aaz, you should make a "case closed" stamp after you post stuff like that. haha. I guess that's kind of what locking a thread is like. But yeh, the fact that Griffith isn't so much Griffith as he is Femto now should be taken into account. Although, I'd like to think he still has something there with Guts if not any other human...but that's just me. I think as a human, even with great respect, he still considered himself above Guts, so it was a huge blow to his ego during his torture and all that. Some of those emotions must have carried over. If not, I think it will be a boring final exchange between the two if Griffith's character acts as if all the events shared between them leading up to his rebirth, and after, have no effect. I'm not saying they should take over his conscience but they did experience alot of shit together. Some of the best character development I've seen is during the parts in vol.11 when there are shots of just Griffith's face, no facial expression or body language but you're able to see a ton of emotion just by the way he was drawn. His dream of course isn't to kill Guts either. Guts is a major underdog right now, so killing him is obviously not at the top of Griffith's 'to do list'. But I think Griffith needs to wake up and smell the gore a little if we're to get the dramatic ending Berserk deserves if what you're saying about his character is true, Aaz.

Borgoff said:

Aaz, you should make a "case closed" stamp after you post stuff like that. haha. I guess that's kind of what locking a thread is like.

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Hehe well, I could always ask CnC to make me a variant of the Seal of Approval he's already done.

Borgoff said:

But yeh, the fact that Griffith isn't so much Griffith as he is Femto now should be taken into account. Although, I'd like to think he still has something there with Guts if not any other human...but that's just me.

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He didn't lose his memory or anything so it's not like what he's been through with Guts counts for nothing, but apparently as Femto he didn't "feel" anything toward him, to see him didn't stir any emotion. Basically he remembered Guts and what he had meant for him, but he was completely detached from it.

Borgoff said:

I think as a human, even with great respect, he still considered himself above Guts , so it was a huge blow to his ego during his torture and all that. Some of those emotions must have carried over. If not, I think it will be a boring final exchange between the two if Griffith's character acts as if all the events shared between them leading up to his rebirth, and after, have no effect.

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Yeah, he obviously didn't think of Guts as being above him before their second duel. After a year of torture though... It's hard to say. Some of the analogies he makes (like how Guts is the light keeping him alive) convey the dilemma of his feelings for the man that caused his loss (at least, so he thinks), and show how ambiguous and paradoxical these feelings are. Anyway, after he became Femto these feelings were suppressed, seemingly for good. That doesn't mean the ending's going to be boring or anything though, I think it's obvious it won't be the case. That's were the remnants of the Demon Child come into play, and provide an interesting plot device. Griffith has feelings for Guts and Casca, but they're not his own. They're a manisfestation of filial affection he endures (against his will?) because of the vessel he was incarnated in.

Then there's the fact that Griffith might eventually resign himself to admit the threat that Guts represents and come up with his own feelings, maybe even bringing back some from the old days (and the Demon Child's emotions could help this process too). That's just speculation though and for now I can't really imagine him not being cold with Guts.