Author Topic: Vagabond Returns (Spoilers).  (Read 40111 times)

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Offline Walter

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2006, 02:46:19 AM »
Out of curiosity... who here has read Eiji Yoshikawa's Musashi?
I've been meaning to read it for some time.  But Sunday night, I broke down and bought it on Amazon. It should ship tomorrow.  :guts:

However, I've read Kenji Tokitsu's excellent book Miyamoto Musashi: His Life and Writings which, in addition to a thoroughly researched biography, contains a new translation of Musashi's Book of Five Rings. Here's the Amazon.com link to it.

From what I understand, Inoue's story is loosely based on the events in Yoshikawa's novel. But the character of Musashi himself is very, very different in these two stories.  Your best bet for getting in Inoue's frame of reference in my opinion, is by reading both Yoshikawa's novel and Tokitsu's book, which contains historical data about the "real" Musashi (and Kojiro) and his travels.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline ZoddGuts

Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2006, 03:12:59 AM »
Gotta get volume 21 soon really love this series.

Now as both Miura VS Inoue I say there about equal when it comes to story telling. Though I gotta say that I like Inoue drawings of battles scenes better there more easily understable as to what going on in the battle scenes compared to Berserk's

BTW I'm thinking of actually getting a Xbox 360 later on because Inoue is doing the character designs for Lost Odyssey being made by Myst Walker created by Hironobu Sakaguchi creator of FF franchise. Nobuo Uematsu is doing the music for it too.  :chomp:

link: http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2005/1474.html

Trailers for the game: http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?fs=1&id=1694

Check out Inoue's other current manga Real it's also pretty damn good. Wheel chair basketball players?? Pure Geniues I say. 

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2006, 03:41:25 AM »
I haven't read past Vol. 19, but I really did enjoy what I read.  I found it highly enjoyable.  I admit, that I didn't know anything about the legend Musashi or Kojiro prior to reading this.  It was definitely one that I couldn't put down.  I'll probably buy the rest soon, now that a couple more are being released. 

Offline Walter

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2006, 03:55:43 AM »
I gotta say that I like Inoue drawings of battles scenes better there more easily understable as to what going on in the battle scenes compared to Berserk's
It's really up to the reader's interpretation and preference.  Miura usually uses action lines a lot, which can confuse some people, but to me it's gorgeous (the Hill of Swords fight is an amazing use of them).  But Inoue leans towards "captured moment" panels for action.

Quote
Check out Inoue's other current manga Real it's also pretty damn good. Wheel chair basketball players?? Pure Geniues I say. 
Ugh, Inoue's so hit or miss to me.  I loved Slam Dunk but hated Buzzer Beater and what I've read of REAL.  It always feels like he's trying too hard with his offbeat series... He should just stick to his guns.
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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2006, 04:49:29 AM »
Out of curiosity... who here has read Eiji Yoshikawa's Musashi?

I read it a while back and it's very good. In it, Musashi is basically Japanese Jesus, while Kojiro is Satan, and it really is kind of like the Bible. EPIC is the word. =)

Vagabond is at it's worst (by comparison) when it follows too closely to the book, which was mostly just the earliest volumes. By 3 Inoue pretty much said screw it and started doing his own thing and that's when Vagabond really takes off on it's own merits. Very cool. It'll be interesting to see how they compare by the time it's finished.

Anyway, I recommend it as well as Musashi's book and the biography Wally mentioned above is the definitive historical Musashi book that I've read thus far (I'm almost sure Inoue has read it and based a lot of Vagabond on it), and I like it's translation of the Book of Five Rings, though I recommend getting as many different one's as you can find (like the annotated "Way to Victory") if you can't read the original.

Offline 6th Angel

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2006, 05:21:33 AM »
Inoue is more polished, methodical, realistic, and almost systemized in his artwork (and writing). If anything, since the early Vagabond volumes, he's simplified and refined what he does to perfection (and he obviously works fast, it's like he just sketches some parts, and it's beautiful). Miura on the other hand, as I said, seemingly has no set style, he's constantly evolving and experimenting; you never know what to expect on any given page. It's not as efficient or consistant, it's busier and even messy, and it takes a lot of time, but there's also a lot more to it when all is said and done (like each page in Berserk is as detailed and unique as an individual piece). I see some of everything in his work from Inoue to Disney to Bill Watterson, yet he's truly an original everytime he goes to the page. I affectionately think of him as ultimate drawer.
hahaha you sure know your Vagabonds ^_^;  I like the series a lot, more thab Berserk even sometimes, you know?  I think the one thing Miura has over Inoue may be his consistency and dedication.   Inoue took over 2 years off from Vagabond I think?  The most Miura take off is 2 months ^__^;; Maybe Inoue spent his time researching but I doubt...

You said a lot about the difference between Miura and Inoue that reminds me of Musashi and Kojiro, you know? Musashi himself learns through experience and hard times. Kojiro was born from a samurai family with natural abilities.  Everyone Musashi fights says his stance has no set style, and the way he fights adapts to his environment.  Much can be said of Miura in the same way ^_^;.  His style changes a lot.  And like Walter said, Inoue's style doesn't change much at all eveno ver a long time.

Id like to talk about art more as its a subject i like a lot and these are the two "rising dragoons" of our time, yeah? ^_^

Offline ZoddGuts

Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2006, 05:24:56 AM »

Ugh, Inoue's so hit or miss to me.  I loved Slam Dunk but hated Buzzer Beater and what I've read of REAL.  It always feels like he's trying too hard with his offbeat series... He should just stick to his guns.

BLASPHEMY!!!!

Heh, I understand what your trying to say Real is like a soap opera but it's still good at least for me...  :puck: Still better then the other crap that is out there.

Seriously Inoue needs to do a sequel to Slam Dunk it sorta feels at the end he got tired of it and decided to stop. New "rival" players were showing up at the very end that showed of possibly of Sakuragi going up agaisn't. The romance part wasn't answered either.  Either way I want more SLAM DUNK!!!


Offline Aazealh

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2006, 08:49:47 AM »
Out of curiosity... who here has read Eiji Yoshikawa's Musashi?

Who hasn't? I read it years ago. Good book.

I gotta say that I like Inoue drawings of battles scenes better there more easily understable as to what going on in the battle scenes compared to Berserk's

Like Walter said, Miura's action scenes are more dynamic and detailed, and I like these a lot. He does a lot of "captured moments" scenes too, but I assume you refer to the fight on the Hill of Swords. I don't think it's really all that hard to get, it's just not meant to be looked at half a second before turning the page, you have to pay a little more attention to it. Keep in mind that the action is supposedly taking place at such a speed that Rickert can't even see what's going on, it makes sense to me that it's depicted in the way it is. Now if you take the fights in episode 260 or 261 for example I don't think you can say they're hard to understand. Miura's too versatile to be summed up reductively like that.

Inoue took over 2 years off from Vagabond I think?  The most Miura take off is 2 months ^__^;; Maybe Inoue spent his time researching but I doubt...

And Miura took had that big break because he had health problems due to overworking, and he still worked nevertheless.

Offline Uriel

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2006, 11:41:00 AM »
I've been meaning to read it for some time.  But Sunday night, I broke down and bought it on Amazon. It should ship tomorrow.  :guts:
Smashing! It's a great read... if not a long one.

However, I've read Kenji Tokitsu's excellent book Miyamoto Musashi: His Life and Writings which, in addition to a thoroughly researched biography, contains a new translation of Musashi's Book of Five Rings. Here's the Amazon.com link to it.
I saw that some time ago and wasn't sure whether or not I should get it or not. Now that a few people have recommended it, I'll try and pick it up this weekend :guts

I read it a while back and it's very good. In it, Musashi is basically Japanese Jesus, while Kojiro is Satan, and it really is kind of like the Bible. EPIC is the word. =)
Epic is the perfect word :badbone:

I recommend it as well as Musashi's book and the biography Wally mentioned above is the definitive historical Musashi book that I've read thus far (I'm almost sure Inoue has read it and based a lot of Vagabond on it), and I like it's translation of the Book of Five Rings, though I recommend getting as many different one's as you can find (like the annotated "Way to Victory") if you can't read the original.
I do have Gramercy's version of Go Rin No Sho, but I have been meaning to pick up other versions for awhile now. I'll try Kenji Tokitsu's book first now, though :serpico:

As far as artistry goes between Miura and Inoue goes, each man has his own style and his own strengths. I can't compare them, personally, because each one is suited to the story is follows. Miura's art isn't as strong in the early volumes of Berserk as Inoue's was back at the start of Vagabond, but Miura's capability has grown to unbelievable proportions. Still, I think I'll just kickback and enjoy both of their work quietly -- without choosing a favourite.

Edit:
They know a certain man. Hint: read the posts you're quoting again.
Nevermind, I found a place with the new RAW's =P
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 12:14:53 PM by Uriel »

Offline Wereallmad

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2006, 01:43:03 PM »
Out of curiosity... who here has read Eiji Yoshikawa's Musashi?

Me. Probably the best novel I've read. I tried to read Shogun afterwards and was just like "ugh".

Offline CnC

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2006, 02:06:26 PM »
I tried to read Shogun afterwards and was just like "ugh".

same here.  couldn't get into it.
I'll have to try musashi, tho.  never read it
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Offline Walter

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2006, 01:18:49 AM »
Seriously Inoue needs to do a sequel to Slam Dunk it sorta feels at the end he got tired of it and decided to stop. New "rival" players were showing up at the very end that showed of possibly of Sakuragi going up agaisn't. The romance part wasn't answered either.  Either way I want more SLAM DUNK!!!
Did we read the same series...? Maybe you only saw the anime, where they don't even play against Sannoh, the national champions, which is the climax of the whole series.  It certainly didn't feel like Inoue got tired of it in the end... at all.  It's one of the most riveting things I've ever read, to be honest.  And if you mean the very end (the last episode), well, I think you may be a little crazy ;D

I've been wanting a Slam Dunk sequel for years.  While there's room for it, I don't think it's totally necessary. It ended properly.  But just to whet your appetite, Inoue's mentioned he'd like to do a sequel many times on his website (specifically, he said that it's a project he'd like to work on after Vagabond is completed. But this was years ago, 2001 I think), and he's even hinted at it in his art books with character designs of "older" Sakuragi/Rukawa etc.   

But for now, Vagabond has filled that niche, for me.  There are really a lot of parallels between the series: in story structure, action and more specifically, between Sakuragi:Musashi and Rukawa:Kojiro.  Think of it as Samurai Dunk XD.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline ZoddGuts

Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2006, 03:08:31 AM »
Me want Slam Dunk sequel!!!!   :chomp:   :chomp:    :chomp:

Oh and BTW I read the manga I don't know it felt like there could have been more...  :judo:

Offline FateINwaiting

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2006, 01:18:03 AM »
I enjoyed the samurai trillogy i  just wish the fight with Musashi and Kojiro was longer.
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Offline Wereallmad

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2006, 11:49:54 PM »
I just heard that there are going to be two different Vagabond artbooks. Confirm/deny.

Offline Walter

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2006, 12:07:08 AM »
I just heard that there are going to be two different Vagabond artbooks. Confirm/deny.
I've never heard of anything like this stateside.  Where'd you hear/read it?  There are Vagabond artbooks in Japan, of course, featuring several characters dressed up in modern clothing XD.  The newest one was released recently in Japan.

I'd certainly be interested if they came here.  Post more info if you find any.
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Offline Wereallmad

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2006, 12:29:53 AM »
It wasn't specified whether it was the US or Japan, actually.

I should have checked first. Even if it is a Japan only thing, I don't give a damn, I'll be getting them, it's just i don't think I've seen them on amazon.co.jp before.

edit: actually, I seem to still be having trouble finding it.

edit: even inoue's website doesn't have mention of them.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 12:43:26 AM by Wereallmad »

Offline Walter

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2006, 01:00:20 AM »
This site (the only real Vagabond site in English) has a few scans of what appears to be some content from an artbook in their Manga/Gallery section. Anyway, regarding the recently released artbook, I'd read about it here .  And yeah, I've scoured Amazon.co.jp but can't find a shred to back this claim up though. As you've mentioned, Inoue's site says nothing about them, and it  would be one of the first to mention any new products, as it's updated regularly with pretty much anything he's been up to...

And I was just questioning myself why I even cared whether or not it was translated.  I was ready to buy them  :judo:

Update: All I can find that's suspicious is this and many other shitty, independantly made "guides" to Vagabond on Amazon Japan. This one's called GENIUS VAGABOND. MANIAC MOOKS makes one for Berserk, and it's notorious for being shitty (according to Olivier). I'll keep looking but no luck so far.

Update 2: I just emailed Inoue and the Itplanning staff. His PR guy responded to me once before pretty quickly, when I'd asked if Inoue was returning to the series after volume 20 (yes, he was, of course).
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Offline Wereallmad

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2006, 01:22:10 AM »
I saw that one, and a magazine or something that looks like it has some unreleased vagabond artwork, but neither seem like what you would call "artbooks", so I dunno.


Update 2: I just emailed Inoue and the Itplanning staff. His PR guy responded to me once before pretty quickly, when I'd asked if Inoue was returning to the series after volume 20 (yes, he was, of course).

Oh, neat. I'm interested in seeing how things turn out.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 05:36:10 AM by Wereallmad »

Offline Uriel

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2006, 11:24:03 AM »
Wally: Any word back from Inoue and his guys? :void:

Offline Funkmasta Zeph

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2006, 05:03:09 PM »
As a compliment to my Lone Wolf and Cub buying streak I've started buying/reading this too.

Wow.

It started off somewhat akward....but I really got swept up in it during the Inshun battles. Its nice to have a "Be the best" series for adults, and its so much more then that.

Inou's artwork is very ..... physical? The drawing style is very mobile looking (I don't know how to word this :judo:).

Maybe this is blasphemous, but I'm buying the Kojiro flashback volumes ahead of time while buying Musashi's story...
The Kojiro story so far is incredible.

Offline yota821

Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2006, 05:07:13 PM »
Dynamic, I believe, is the word you're looking for.  :guts:

Can't wait for vol. 23.  With that and Berserk vol. 31 coming out relatively close to each other (I hope  :judo: ), it's gonna be an awesome couple of months.
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Offline Walter

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2006, 06:10:54 PM »
It started off somewhat akward....but I really got swept up in it during the Inshun battles.
Yeah, the Inshun section (~Volume 5-8) is where I really got into Vagabond.    I'm reading the novel now, and like Griff said before me, Inoue's certainly at his best when he's doing his own thing, independant, while still influenced by the novel.

Quote
Maybe this is blasphemous, but I'm buying the Kojiro flashback volumes ahead of time while buying Musashi's story...
The Kojiro story so far is incredible.
Well, there's not a lot of crossover between those two arcs beyond a certain, indirect point (vol 5 has an appearance of someone who is introduced formally in volume 15), so it's not BLASPHEMOUS.  But for my money, some of the best stuff in the series is between volumes 10-13, and is definitely worth reading. 

Volume 22 comes out August 15th here.  :beast:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline yota821

Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2006, 07:19:19 PM »
(vol 5 has an appearance of someone who is introduced formally in volume 15

Are you talking about: 

[hide]Kusanagi Tenki, who appears in vol. 6 of the Japanese release, and is later introduced in vol. 14.  I just checked so I'm pretty sure. [/hide]
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Offline Walter

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Re: Vagabond Returns.
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2006, 04:06:05 AM »
Are you talking about:  ...
Yep, that's the one.  Thanks for the correction, I was just off by 1 on my off-the-cuff estimation  :carcus:

Ok, finally! News on the artbooks!  Well, it's actually a little late news, since this has been up for almost a month now on Inoue's site :

Quote from: Takehiko Inoue
I was in meetings all day yesterday and I've been in metings since this morning.
They were about Real 35th which I'm drawing this week, the Vagabond Illustraction Collection and other works... all really important things, so my brain's really tried now.

Here's a little about the Illustration Collection.

I've talked about it a little before, but we've decided to publish 2 books -- "WATER" which will be in color and "Sumi" which will be monochrome.

We decided on these titles not too long ago.
The reason why I decided on "Water" for the color collection is that even though most of Vagabond's coloring is done with color ink, the ink that is used has to be ixed with water first, which ends up making it over 70% water.
"Sumi" is just as the name implies.
Although to be precies, it is mostly ink, not sumi...

Vagabond Vol. 24 is planned to hit the stores in October, and we're aiming to have "Water" and "Sumi" ready to line up beside it in the stores.

THe meeting this time was about the direction of the collection and how to approach the images that will be its contents.
To be honest, there were some things that I couldn't nail in the meetings up until now, but yesterday I was able to capture everything while I was talking and felt that we had something that I could make work.
No actual work on the book has been done yet.
That will be starting now.

There's a long road ahead, but if I can tackle it with enjoyment and excitement then the end will be near.

Look forward to October.
So... come October, Japan will get two Vagabond artbooks (Water: in color ; Sumi: in ink)
:femto: :slan: :ubik: