Dark Horse Releases

Yeah, it's also in the Japanese version, but it's mainly annoying because the English just takes up much more room on the page. I guess it's the restriction of the language itself, since in Japanese that certain bit is written veritcally, quite unobtrusively, while English must be written horizontally, taking up space.

That "Gonning" bit is really painful on the eyes, though. :puck:
 

Akin

MOOO!!!
yota821 said:
Yeah, it's also in the Japanese version, but it's mainly annoying because the English just takes up much more room on the page. I guess it's the restriction of the language itself, since in Japanese that certain bit is written vertically, quite unobtrusively, while English must be written horizontally, taking up space.

That "Gonning" bit is really painful on the eyes, though. :puck:

*pulls out a ruler* actually, if they wouldn't have put "conjunction is a new moon" in it's own separate spot, it would have taken up the same amount of space... I suppose the real problem is they continue to use all caps for footnotes, as capitals tend to be WIDER and take up more space.. seeing as how Latin letters seem to be very verticlal in nature (especially lowercase letters), it's obvious why English isn't written "downwards" ... compare this with Japanese and Chinese, etc which seem to fit perfectly in a square and seem to be naturally monospace in nature... ... personally, I find the English to be no more obtrusive...

*looks again* actually the font that the jp version uses in the footnote (sidenote?) seems to be much more thin (or it's a smaller font) than the font used elswhere on the page... compare this with the en volume, where the font is both of the same size and thickness...

On another note, I found it very interesting when I read/was comparing the jp with en of volume 12 that miura left a big chunk of space below the panel... I'm thinking miura was thinking ahead and consitering that when it would be translated into other languages, that they would want to write horizontally below the panel.... hrm...

---
Regardless, there are many options for dealing with sound effects, and out of all of them, they picked the worst by far (when I was reading it, which was the day it came out, I was reminded of some of the crappy scanlations I read back in 2000).... If you give me a minute, I'll list the other options of dealing with sound effects...
here are the options, as well as my thoughts on them (and examples from things lieng around in my room)... (warning, may not be worth reading if you don't want to hear some tired person comparing various ways to deal with sfx)
1. Keep the Japanese sound effects, and don't bother translating them, or putting any note whatsoever about the meaning. This move, which appears to have been popularised by Tokyopop (originally to save money), was the option that Dark Horse has been going with so far. The company has the least chance of screwing things up, but most of the audience is given no chance as to the meaning.
2. Don't translate at all, except for cases where knowledge of the sound effect is needed to understand the story. This is what Tokyopop seems to be doing for some of their stuff these days. (I noticed a few were translated in Ai Yori Aoshi) A bit better than option 1, I suppose, but what of the times when knowledge of the sound effect would be usefull, but not needed?
3. Don't translate, but put an appendix in the back of the book listing every sound effect that is used in every panel on every page. Most of Excel Saga, volume 1 picks this option. While it DOES provice context, for many series that use a lot of sfx, it can be annoying to flip to the back of the book 8 times per page.
4. Translate, and replace: The classic solution. Personally, I think what made Tokyopop's "100% authentic" style so popular wasn't that they left the sfx there untranslated, but that they didn't fuck with the artwork by flipping it. (hay look, all of the sudden everyone is left handed, except for one or two people in the whole series!)... Looking around my room, I'm seeing Vis do this a lot. This is an option to be taken with care: I'm for it, but only if A. the font is similar-looking. AND B. You put the text in a similar fation in the panel. ...I'm not sure if this would work for berserk though, sense the background is typically not a simple white space or shade like it is in most manga series.
5. Translate, and put next to/on top of the original with an SFX type font. I've noticed some smaller translation companies doing this... I doubt any of you have it, but "Na Na Na Na", volume 1 does this (using a similar font). Done incorrectly, this can make the sfx twice as annoying... Looking at the way ADV Manga does "Steel Angel Kurumi" is even worse... they leave the original stuff, then they throw their other stuff in there, with a very different font. Bleh.... Sometimes they even put the sfx in a very different part of the panel, while leaving the original there.... hell, they don't even bother to simply replace text said by a character when it isn't in a word bubble, by the looks of it...
6. Keep them, and put in small, plain text near or next to the sound effect what it says (in cases of large samples, sometimes on top of). Del Rey seems to be doing this, and I personally like it.... This may be the best option for berserk, I'm not sure...
7. The crappy scanlation group solution: translate and put either the meaning or the romanization in a rectangular box outside, or in some horrific cases, INSIDE the panel! This is what Dark Horse chose for volume 12... I swear, I haven't seen this in /years/... I was having flashbacks from some of the scanlations that I read back in 2001ish. Totally unacceptable, especially for berserk

I suppose the best option for berserk may be option 6, with option 2 coming in an acceptable second... I'd say potion 4 would be good, but the background has too much art in it typicaly, and unless dark horse has access the un-SFXed art, then it isn't a real option (as I don't want to see them try to redraw the background).

edit: added solutions
Edit: wait, we're still using this old thread?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Akin said:
I'm thinking miura was thinking ahead and consitering that when it would be translated into other languages, that they would want to write horizontally below the panel.... hrm...

That's incredibly far-fetched, and definitely not the case. Also, while I can't blame Dark Horse for following the Japanese volume as far as on-page explanations go, the original is actually more discreet in my opinion.link

Oh, and next time you post about your personal life in a thread, be sure to read it first. Otherwise I'll remove your post. You could have summarized your opinion without making that gigantic comparative list too, that'd make it easier to read. But that's up to you I guess.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Akin said:
Um... do you actually own the japanese volume 12? If so, bring it out and flip to page 99. Too bad that "annoying annotated" bit is in there as well.... :schierke:

(arg, I need a camera)
Wow, I didn't remember that at all (no surprise really). Yes, I do own volume 12 (and 1-30...). I just unsafely assumed DH was making shit up. But don't get me wrong, it was definitely an oversight on my part, professor. No reason to get SNOOTY though :carcus: I think my other points are still valid, and even though you don't address them directly, you kind of explained your way into a block of text.

Akin said:
for many series that use a lot of sfx, it can be annoying to flip to the back of the book 8 times per page.
I've seen people mention this, and while I can understand the logic in the classical sense of arguing it against all the other methods, no one in their right mind would do that on their initial reading of the volume. I admit it's the greatest weakness of the appendix, when put in those terms. However, to me, the sound effects are something that can still be understood AFTER the initial reading, and still be appreciated. I acknowledge that for the PURISTS who haven't read the series yet and want the full experience up front with no re-reads, this just isn't an option, but I just can't relate to them, really.
 

Funkmasta Zeph

Finely made wine since 1840
Well I got it.

To be honest it didn't bother or distract that much at all.

But it didn't add anything either. Meaning it didn't ruin the read, but failed at being SFX.
 
While I appreciate DH going all the way, and translating the SFX, the fact that they sometimes transliterate the Japanese SFX into English, and sometimes just romanize them, that started to get annoying. I noticed that after re-reading their English release of volume 12. Dark Horse should've just stuck with transliteration of the SFX all the way to the end.

In fact, a similar problem seems to be existing with Dark Horse's dialogue translation as well. Sometimes they "Americanize" the dialogue (like Wyald talking like a "gangsta" rapper, after getting impaled by Zodd's horns towards the end of vol 11). Or sometimes they choose stay too literal to the original Japanese dialogue.
 

Funkmasta Zeph

Finely made wine since 1840
Gangsta is using words like "aint" and "shoulda"?

I think its just to give him an unsophsticated edge, I wouldn't be suprised if that were true of the original...
 
Funkmasta Zeph said:
Gangsta is using words like "aint" and "shoulda"?

I think its just to give him an unsophsticated edge, I wouldn't be suprised if that were true of the original...

Well, while being stabbed by Zodd's horns, Wyald pleads Nosferatu to spare him. Then he starts to claim that Griifith doesn't have the Beherit in his possession, by repeatedly shouting "He don't got it! He don't got it!"
That Dark Horse's "translation" of Wyald's lines sure looks gangsta enough to me.
But who knows, maybe they were trying to interpret Wyald's character from the Japanese version, since from what I heard, Wyald's got a pretty informal speech in the original Japanese version of the manga. But, it seems like they kinda overdid it here.
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
BayJumper said:
Or sometimes they choose stay too literal to the original Japanese dialogue.     

What's wrong with a literal translation of the Japanese dialogue? Isn't that the whole point?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
BayJumper said:
Dark Horse should've just stuck with transliteration of the SFX all the way to the end.

You know, aside from the fact that romanizing something is actually transliterating it into the Roman alphabet, you're just repeating what's been said pages ago right now. Inconsistency in the way the SFX are treated isn't surprising, and I won't be surprised either if their handling is also inconsistent from one volume to another. Then one day even you will find some of them obtrusive on a page here and there, not to mention the inevitable ones that will look messy due to the inherent complexity of their transcription. Because like I said earlier, translating SFX accurately and properly really isn't simple. It's easier said than done.

That's why I advocated the use of an appendix from the beginning. It's more convenient for readers overall (and satisfies the large majority, it's some form of consensus) as they have more information and that information is more precise, and it's far easier and simpler for the translator(s) and editor(s) as well. It will be too late to regret having endorsed the wrong solution by the time the English version of volume 30 is out, it's now that foresight is needed.

Rhombaad said:
What's wrong with a literal translation of the Japanese dialogue? Isn't that the whole point?

No, translating too literally is never good. The hardest part in translating is the adaptation of the text to another language and culture. It's good to stay close to the original Japanese meaning, but not to the point where it's unpleasing for the readers (not saying this is the case with DH's volumes). I could give you plenty of examples, but this isn't really the appropriate thread for it. Anyway, I have a feeling our friend BayJumper isn't well versed in Japanese, and I suggest that non-Japanese speakers in general leave these matters aside if possible, as they're not apt to evaluate them (not to mention that we have another thread dedicated to the problems of DH's translations).
 
Ech...I'm not really seeing the problem with translated SFX. If the actual art had been edited, SFX removed, and replaced with English text, then yes, it would be bad. But small notes in the margins? That's useful, not irritating.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
coolerimmortal said:
But small notes in the margins?

They're not in the margins but on the artwork most of the time, that's the problem. Did you follow the conversation at all?
 
Volume 13 is still set to drop on 9/27/06 (stupid sticker and all ::))
and volume 14 is set to be released on 11/29/06

i normally just post dates for the series, but i have to admit.. Volume 13 & 14 were really amazing, and are two of my favorite books from the Berserk series.
But, then again i say that about every volume of Berserk lol :SK:
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
TheBeast43105 said:
At least its just a sticker that you can remove, if it was actually part of the cover, then i would be very irritated.  :chomp:

Yup, we can at least be thankful the actual art wasn't tampered with (other than making the image bigger, since DH apparently doesn't believe in borders :schierke:).
 
With DH's unwillingness to translate the SFX (at least for the for the first 11 volumes anyway), translation/printing quality, and the tiny paperback size, Berserk might as well been licensed by TOKYOPOP. The only difference, is that in TOKYOPOP's hands each volume would've cost only $9.99, instead of $13.95. Well, at least I'm glad that DH isn't gonna screw with the cover art of volume 13.
 

Billybob

Succumb to the will of the beast
DarthVenom said:
Volume 13 is still set to drop on 9/27/06 (stupid sticker and all ::))
and volume 14 is set to be released on 11/29/06

i normally just post dates for the series, but i have to admit.. Volume 13 & 14 were really amazing, and are two of my favorite books from the Berserk series.
But, then again i say that about every volume of Berserk lol :SK:

Volumes 14-22/23 is probably my favorite part of Berserk. I am really hyped for the American releases and am glad Dark Horse quickened the pace a bit.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
Billybob said:
Volumes 14-22/23 is probably my favorite part of Berserk. I am really hyped for the American releases and am glad Dark Horse quickened the pace a bit.
Really, Volume 14-roughly 23 is your favorite part. Isn't that the Lost Children Arc. Not that theres anything wrong with that, I just can't believe it's your FAV section of berserk. And the new sfx do bother me a little bit, but I'm sure it's because I'm not used to them, After a couple of volumes it will be fine I think, as long as it stays off the artwork. Overall though DH is kinda putting me on the edge of my seat, especially after that "Friend" came on to the boards and told everyone their translating process, that didn't help.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Oberi said:
Isn't that the Lost Children Arc.

The Retribution arc spans from volume 14 to the end of 21. After that it's the Millennium Falcon arc. The Lost Children chapter starts in volume 14 and ends in 16.

Oberi said:
Not that theres anything wrong with that, I just can't believe it's your FAV section of berserk.

It's the favorite part of many, many Berserk fans.

Oberi said:
And the new sfx do bother me a little bit, but I'm sure it's because I'm not used to them, After a couple of volumes it will be fine I think, as long as it stays off the artwork.

Dude, they're not off the artwork. They're ON it. That's what everybody's been complaining about.
 
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