Dark Horse Releases

Auturgist said:
That's marketing. Neither Duane nor I wrote that, but I think we both know why it's there. You know about BERSERK already, and you're going to describe it more accurately to your friends when they ask about manga. A summary like that is meant to entice the lowest common denominator with a promise of bloody, action-packed storytelling, so that someone who isn't interested in the more intellectual elements of BERSERK will still pick it up and buy it without prompting from friends who know about the series already.

I know, being intelligent can be a real burden because you have to tolerate not only the stupid people, but the world of marketing that panders to them. (I say that sarcastically, but it's the truth, and I do feel your pain.)

Think about it like this:

The lowest common denominator NEEDS those kinds of summaries to be enticed to take an interest (and ultimately purchase) the series.

The more intelligent readers (you, me, most of the people posting here) are assumed to be smart enough to know why they are there, and ignore them because they have no bearing on the actual content inside the book.

Dark Horse needs money from both the lowest common denominator and the more intellectual readers if they are to make enough to continue publishing the series.

Since there are more of the lowest common denominator than intellectual readers, Dark Horse has to pander to them while hoping the intellectual readers can forgive the flagrant English logo and gratuitous summary on the back cover.

Now you're confusing me, by saying that Dark Horse includes those childish title description on the back of the each American release, just so it can appeal to more mainstream audience (if that's what you mean by the "lowest common denominator"). But what makes you think that DH is gonna attract more buyers by doing so. On a little side note, I've been reading manga titles published by DH, for over 8 years. And throughout this whole time, Berserk is the very first title that they're treating like that. In my opinion, the English version of Berserk needs no such title descriptions. It's an adult manga, and not a children's genre. Hell, those Shonen Jump that Viz releases, not even they contain such dumb-ass, and apalling book descriptions on the back, like the English version of Berserk does. Want a proof?
Here's a liitle comparison between the book descriptions that appeared on the back of the fifth volume of the Dark Horse's release of Berserk, and the one that was on the back of the third volume of Beet the Vandel Buster, published by Viz under the Shonen Jump label. Before I proceed, keep in mind that while Berserk is rated "18+", Beet the Vandel Buster is rated "All ages."

The title description taken from the back of the Berserk, vol 5:
"Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is maniacal manga to the max - relentless, harrowing, and gruesomely funny - and the inspiration for the popular anime series. If you're looking for graphic fiction tied up with a pretty, pink bow, you'd better run for the hills - because Berserk will show you what you can do with that bow!!"

Now, let's look at Beet the Vandel Buster:
"It's the century of Darkness and monsters, known as Vandels, rule the world. The only force that can fight them are the warriors known as Vandel Busters. Whena group of Busters are killed ina battle, they pass on their magic Saiga weapons to Beet, making him the strongest buster ever. He won't just fight the Vandels. Beet wants to destroy them and finally end the Century of Darkness."

As you can see, a manga that's being targeted towards children, actually has a much more intelligent and not mention coherent sounding title description, than Berserk, a title that's being targeted for the adult audience. That's definately not something that Dark Horse should be proud of.
 
BayJumper said:
The title description taken from the back of the Berserk, vol 5:
"Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is maniacal manga to the max - relentless, harrowing, and gruesomely funny - and the inspiration for the popular anime series. If you're looking for graphic fiction tied up with a pretty, pink bow, you'd better run for the hills - because Berserk will show you what you can do with that bow!!"

Now, let's look at Beet the Vandel Buster:
"It's the century of Darkness and monsters, known as Vandels, rule the world. The only force that can fight them are the warriors known as Vandel Busters. When a group of Busters are killed in a battle, they pass on their magic Saiga weapons to Beet, making him the strongest buster ever. He won't just fight the Vandels. Beet wants to destroy them and finally end the Century of Darkness."

As you can see, a manga that's being targeted towards children, actually has a much more intelligent and not mention coherent sounding title description, unlike Berserk, a title that's being targeted for the adult audience. That's definately not something that Dark Horse should be proud of.

Yeah, that particular BERSERK blurb is pretty fucking terrible, but I never said they weren't. I just said that it's marketing, and marketing often seems stupid. It's also on the back cover... not inside, not anyplace you have to read it. You know, I have that volume and I'd never read that blurb simply because I don't pay any attention to the back covers -- they're just not important to me.

I guess my point is that, all said and done, I think something like that is a silly thing to be upset about. It's like the "frothing demand" line on the U.S. release of IKARUGA for Nintendo Gamecube. It's retarded, sure, but it doesn't affect the game at all... it's still one of the best shooters ever made. I can hardly complain about it when I'm busy, you know, actually playing and enjoying the game.

Anyway, there are constructive criticisms and ranting over spilled milk. That was on the back of volume 5, and the current release is volume 12. Hopefully you wrote Chris Warner and told him how much you hate that blurb back when it was first published, but if not, what's the point of bitching about it now? Especially in light of, say, the FX boxes, which are a much more current and legitimate matter about which to complain.

* By the way: "lowest common denominator" = less intelligent/discerning, more mainstream audience, with some emphasis on the "less intelligent/discerning" part. Basically, the people who buy it because it's gratuitously violent and has lots of titties, completely unaware of how it touches on detailed philosophical ideas.

** Here's a link to explain my IKARUGA, "frothing demand" comment:
http://www.uti.com/~peterg/Ikaruga.jpg
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
Auturgist said:
Hey, if you were actually buying the volumes, you have every right to be upset if they started doing something you found distasteful. And, I'd say you SHOULD stop buying them if they aren't providing you the level of quality you expect. Stop buying them and write to Dark Horse telling them you stopped, because that will get their attention.
-
Ok, but there are people who love to bitch about this stuff and are perfectly willing to admit that they aren't buying the Dark Horse releases, completely shooting themselves in the foot in saying so. I see you don't like being thrown into that generalization anymore than I like being categorized as someone who isn't competent or doesn't care about BERSERK.

My insistence in you dropping the qualification of whether or not I bought the DH releases was because its a pointless point to make. My opinion (or anyone else's opinion) on what should or shouldn't be done in these printings is valid regardless of whether or not I bought them. We don't have to support DH to criticize them. So drop that point.

Auturgist said:
Well, I also said that the DUNE reference was completely transparent, and it is. So much so that Duane himself forgot about it. So, pretend I never said anything about it, and tell me when you spot it if you are still reading the Dark Horse versions then. Because it's not something that shouts "Hey look at me! I'm a DUNE reference!" when you read it; in fact, I guarantee most people won't even pick up on it.

If it was that transparent then you _shouldn't_ have said anything, praying nobody notices. Enjoy having snuck one in much to the ignorance of the fans of the series. However, knowing inclusion of it is unimaginative and unprofessional.
My main issue with this situation was, however, your self-congratulatory nature in stating it. When one fanboy says he liked it you in affect say, "Yea? I did more!".
People _always_ notice these things so its best to just not do it.


Auturgist said:
Hell, if I were Miura, I wouldn't even include them in the original art, but again... neither here nor there, and this particular issue is beyond my control.

A distinction has to made between the drivel that DH injected and the original sfx. The originals were composed into the art, most of the time become a part of the art itself. The boxes are an overlay, serving little purpose.

Auturgist said:
That's marketing. Neither Duane nor I wrote that, but I think we both know why it's there. You know about BERSERK already, and you're going to describe it more accurately to your friends when they ask about manga. A summary like that is meant to entice the lowest common denominator with a promise of bloody, action-packed storytelling, so that someone who isn't interested in the more intellectual elements of BERSERK will still pick it up and buy it without prompting from friends who know about the series already.

I know, being intelligent can be a real burden because you have to tolerate not only the stupid people, but the world of marketing that panders to them. (I say that sarcastically, but it's the truth, and I do feel your pain.)

Think about it like this:

The lowest common denominator NEEDS those kinds of summaries to be enticed to take an interest (and ultimately purchase) the series.

The more intelligent readers (you, me, most of the people posting here) are assumed to be smart enough to know why they are there, and ignore them because they have no bearing on the actual content inside the book.

Dark Horse needs money from both the lowest common denominator and the more intellectual readers if they are to make enough to continue publishing the series.

Since there are more of the lowest common denominator than intellectual readers, Dark Horse has to pander to them while hoping the intellectual readers can forgive the flagrant English logo and gratuitous summary on the back cover.

Thats bullshit, auturgist. Appealing to the lowest common denominator? Do you honestly believe that is appropriate or excusable?!
Perhaps all literary work should be given similar treatment:
Coming at you like a machete through a bunch of innocent puppies, its "A Book of Poetry" by Maya Angelou!! With gritty, unapologetic iambic pentameter that'll make your sister cry, Maya Angelou's "A Book of Poetry" delivers more estrogen than a room full of sex-crazed women ready to orgy! Buckle your seatbelts cause this ride's going to be more explosive than a plane flying 600 mph into a tower!

Such filth can't be blamed solely on marketing. If this is the bullshit they come up with then they obviously need to be replaced.
Besides being juvenile its blatantly wrong in summarizing the series. Moving on...

-the rest of your post you've said in some form before so I'll not respond to it in the interest of not running in circles-


Auturgist said:
I hope you aren't taking my responses personally. :serpico:

I weigh your contributions thus far no less yet no higher than most of the people who are new to this series/message board. It would have been nice to have an _actual translator_ here to argue your points with the standpoint of an actual DH employee. But I suppose we'll have to wait.
So (short answer) no, I'm not taking your posts personally.
 
CnC said:
My insistence in you dropping the qualification of whether or not I bought the DH releases was because its a pointless point to make. My opinion (or anyone else's opinion) on what should or shouldn't be done in these printings is valid regardless of whether or not I bought them. We don't have to support DH to criticize them. So drop that point.

I don't know that that's true, my personal opinion aside (my personal opinion being that you're right about it not mattering). I'm trying to consider all angles here, and there is an argument to be made that if someone isn't buying a product, complaining about it is kinda silly and pointless.

If it was that transparent then you _shouldn't_ have said anything, praying nobody notices. Enjoy having snuck one in much to the ignorance of the fans of the series. However, knowing inclusion of it is unimaginative and unprofessional.
My main issue with this situation was, however, your self-congratulatory nature in stating it. When one fanboy says he liked it you in affect say, "Yea? I did more!".
People _always_ notice these things so its best to just not do it.

Ok. You might be right that I shouldn't have said anything about it. In fact, you were PROBABLY right about that. I'll give you that one, and I'll make sure not to say anything else so you have to work at finding anymore, should they be snuck in. :serpico:

A distinction has to made between the drivel that DH injected and the original sfx. The originals were composed into the art, most of the time become a part of the art itself. The boxes are an overlay, serving little purpose.

You'll get no argument from me. I said, and will say again, I don't like the FX boxes.

Thats bullshit, auturgist. Appealing to the lowest common denominator? Do you honestly believe that is appropriate or excusable?!

I don't know that asking if it's appropriate or excusable is the right thing to ask. Appropriate? Maybe if it does help to sell more volumes. Excusable? By me, since I hadn't really paid any attention to it in the first place. I mean, it's not something I endorse personally, but it's also not the end of the world or even worth my time to bitch about because it's on the back cover, where I need never read it. You know, I'd sooner question why we don't get neat dust jackets like the Japanese than bitch about a blurb I never read anyway, if we're gonna talk about cosmetics that are irrelevent to the actual content of the book.

Perhaps all literary work should be given similar treatment:
Coming at you like a machete through a bunch of innocent puppies, its "A Book of Poetry" by Maya Angelou!! With gritty, unapologetic iambic pentameter that'll make your sister cry, Maya Angelou's "A Book of Poetry" delivers more estrogen than a room full of sex-crazed women ready to orgy! Buckle your seatbelts cause this ride's going to be more explosive than a plane flying 600 mph into a tower!

Amusing, but ultimately a terrible attempt at arguing your point since BERSERK actually is (at times gratuitously) violent and gritty the way that blurb, shitty as it may be written, attempts to portray it.

Such filth can't be blamed solely on marketing. If this is the bullshit they come up with then they obviously need to be replaced.
Besides being juvenile its blatantly wrong in summarizing the series. Moving on...

Well, again, just to be clear, neither Duane nor myself write those blurbs. And that's all I'll say about that now.

I weigh your contributions thus far no less yet no higher than most of the people who are new to this series/message board. It would have been nice to have an _actual translator_ here to argue your points with the standpoint of an actual DH employee. But I suppose we'll have to wait.
So (short answer) no, I'm not taking your posts personally.

Well, even Duane wouldn't be "an actual DH employee", and he wouldn't want to get into all this anyway, because he knows exactly what I've said already: there's no way to please everyone, he's not personally responsible for most of the issues people have with the DH releases (and yet he'd be blasted for them anyway), and there's no way he could comment without risking a conflict of interests. I'm only commenting because I'm hoping to convince people that things aren't as bad as they are trying to make them out to be in some ways, even if I do agree that some issues are worth complaining about. :puck:
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Jesus, Auturgist... you're criticizing the fanbase on their purchasing habits? Can I have your supervisor's number, I'd seriously like to file a complaint. It's reasons like this you'll remain a completely indirect employee of Dark Horse...

It's so easy for you to say that because you make little attempt to understand that individuals involved are not all part of the same corporate machine that you see trying to ruin your favorite manga series for a buck. It's more complex, and many of the people involved are totally competent and care more than you realize or would ever admit

I guess ultimately my point is that in the world of business, compromises have to be made. Not everyone agrees with all of them, but that's how money is made and the fact remains, however despicable, that BERSERK needs to make money if it's going to continue being published in English.
...if we're gonna talk about cosmetics that are irrelevent to the actual content of the book.
Cosmetics? The statements are attempting to DESCRIBE THE SERIES. It's a reflection of shit onto an awesome series. Your response to CnC was pretty fucking weak. I'd really like to see you defend your above statement in the face of shit like this:

"Vol.3
Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is exactly what its title advertises, a savage, gruesome, and often darkly funny roller- coaster ride, inspiring the internationally popular anime series. If you're looking for graphic fiction to take home to Grandma, this ain't it-unless Granny smokes cigars and rides a Harley!"

It establishes that you are an idealist, but not that you know what you're talking about when you comment on those people. I'd ask you to reconsider that comment. :schierke:
Well ya know, you're kind of an idealist too. You waltz into our forum singing the praises of Dark Horse, knowing full well how critical and sensitive we are to the handling and translation of our favorite series and are suddenly appalled when people start disagreeing with you?

Ever since you first showed up here, I've thought your interaction with us here was dangerous, but I decided to give you a chance. Do you realize how wildly irresponsible, not to mention unprofessional, it is for a Dark Horse "employee" to show up on a fan site like ours and start rocking the boat? Do you understand the whole corporation/customer relations thing... at all? I don't care how indirect you're employed by DH, you represent them whether you like it or not. And criticizing THE FANBASE is just about the stupidest mistake a company could ever make when it comes to public relations.
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
All this quoting aside, I never accused Duane (or you for that matter) for the blurbs on the back cover. But your defense of them is downright retarded. They're meant to talk to stupid people? "well... berserk _is_ violent"??
Are you high? This crap shouldn't be on the back of the books. "period."

And your contention that one must buy the books to be eligible to crit them is also none too intelligent... but I said that already, I guess.

You kind of bounce back and forth on whether or not we should take you seriously as a representative of DH. You make decisions that affect the book one minute but then distance yourself from the results the next. My earlier comment on how nice it would have been to have a translator from DH would apply to Duane too (even if he's just a freelancer) because I'm assuming he at least speaks japanese and can defend certain word choices.
However I understand him taking the smarter route and staying out of the fray. Ignorance is bliss.
 
Walter said:
Cosmetics? The statements are attempting to DESCRIBE THE SERIES. It's a reflection of shit onto an awesome series.

But the only people complaining about those descriptions are the people who already know that it's an awesome series, and those descriptions aren't aimed at those people. And my point is that it's those people who are in the position to completely ignore the back cover of the book because they don't need to read anything telling them what the series is about. Thus, the back cover becomes cosmetic to them.

If you accept that the back cover is going to be used to sell the book with a descriptive blurb, and you don't ever need to read that blurb because you're already sold on it, why should you care if it's crap?

That's a rhetorical question. I know why people would care. I'm just arguing that I think there are more important things to care about.

Your response to CnC was pretty fucking weak. I'd really like to see you defend your above statement in the face of shit like this:

"Vol.3
Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is exactly what its title advertises, a savage, gruesome, and often darkly funny roller- coaster ride, inspiring the internationally popular anime series. If you're looking for graphic fiction to take home to Grandma, this ain't it-unless Granny smokes cigars and rides a Harley!"

Well, BERSERK is savage at times. It is gruesome. And perhaps more "occasionally" than "often", it can be darkly funny. It has highs and lows which would make it a metaphoric rollercoaster, and I wouldn't take it home to my Grandma (who does not smoke cigars or ride Harleys, coincidentally).

Listen, again, I'm not saying these blurbs are GOOD. They are crap, obviously. But they are crap I can easily ignore because I know why they exist, they aren't aimed at me, and they are on the back cover where I almost never have to look at them.

Well ya know, you're kind of an idealist too. You waltz into our forum singing the praises of Dark Horse, knowing full well how critical and sensitive we are to the handling and translation of our favorite series and are suddenly appalled when people start disagreeing with you?

Fair enough. I suppose I am a bit of an idealist. But I don't recall singing the praises of Dark Horse. I've said before that I don't personally agree with every decision made regarding the Dark Horse versions. I just know that there are reasons for them, and don't think things are quite as bad as people would make them seem.

Ever since you first showed up here, I've thought your interaction with us here was dangerous, but I decided to give you a chance....

I don't feel that I've criticized the fanbase. I am part of the fanbase. Nothing I've said has been a sweeping generalization of people here on SK.net and I have meant nothing I've said personally.

Anyway, I'll ask you two questions:

1) Would anyone's opinions of the Dark Horse releases be any different had I not ever posted here?

I'm inclined to think they would not in most cases, and that people will generally respond the same way regardless of whether or not I ever post. People who disapprove will continue to disapprove. Maybe I can clear up something like that concern over Wyald talking like a "gangsta" on occasion, though, which is a good thing, right?

2) Would you rather me not post?

If it upsets the SK.net community and you don't want me here, I can roll out. I mean, I try to distinguish my personal opinions as such so that I can post as a fan sometimes, and as someone who has a little inside info that, on occasion, I feel inclined to share with people for the greater good other times. I'm NOT trying to rock the boat, and if you don't want or appreciate my attempts to contribute to the forums either way, I can leave to prove it.

CnC said:
All this quoting aside, I never accused Duane (or you for that matter) for the blurbs on the back cover.

I recognize and appreciate that you haven't accused me or Duane for them. And, to clarify, I'm not defending them so much as trying to offer a perspective that makes it easier to deal with them. I think they are retarded, but I honestly can't say I'm bothered by them much because I pay them no mind. It's not like they are FX boxes blocking art in the book. They are on the back cover, where you never really have to read them.

And your contention that one must buy the books to be eligible to crit them is also none too intelligent... but I said that already, I guess.

And I said too that there's an argument to be made about that. PERSONALLY, I'm inclined to agree with you guys. I'm just trying to present more than one way of looking at the issue. I guess I should expect a debate when I present an opposing viewpoint, even if it's not something I personally endorse. = /

You kind of bounce back and forth on whether or not we should take you seriously as a representative of DH. You make decisions that affect the book one minute but then distance yourself from the results the next.

You are right in calling me on this. My only explanation is that I'm not the one making decisions regarding things like the blurbs on the back cover, or FX boxes. So while I'm trying to defend singular elements (I am involved in, such as scripting), most are things I really have nothing to do with... and in those cases, I do try to distance myself from the results. It's just difficult to say "I didn't do it!" without implying someone else did, and I'd rather try to calm the angry mob than redirect it towards someone else. Maybe I'm just doing a bad job of it. :judo:
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Auturgist said:
If you accept that the back cover is going to be used to sell the book with a descriptive blurb, and you don't ever need to read that blurb because you're already sold on it, why should you care if it's crap?
Because as I said earlier, it's a bad reflection on the series. An attack on the king's men is an attack on the king himself. :miura:
I don't feel that I've criticized the fanbase. I am part of the fanbase. Nothing I've said has been a sweeping generalization of people here on SK.net and I have meant nothing I've said personally.
In a nutshell, you said that some people here weren't buying enough volumes to be eligible to criticize them. (ex. "Hi, I have an issue with Dark Horse." "Oh, well you only have vol. 1-3. Your opinion doesn't count!")

1) Would anyone's opinions of the Dark Horse releases be any different had I not ever posted here?

I'm inclined to think they would not in most cases...
Actually, my opinion of the translation process has weakened drastically since you appeared. Now I know you subject yourself to scanlations which can SOMETIMES affect the final product. Even that "sometimes" is too much for me. That and the knowledge that you and Duane sit around talking about different ways to squeeze in a pop culture reference whenever translating a section is just too tough.

I'd prefer you to stay away from Dark Horse-related threads. Your involvement with Digital Manga should be reason enough. You should check out how Chris Warner responded in this section. That man had class, and knew how to approach a fan community with full knowledge of the sensitive nature of the information conveyed.

Anyway, I'd say your involvement has mostly just been an annoyance to the DH thread, having this take up 3 full pages of 'grooviness'. But that's not what concerns me. I'm primarily worried about how DH will be received in the future with any more tidbits you leak to us. Even the SFX boxes issue aside, many members' opinions of DH have publically changed for the worst over the past 2 months.

I'm just trying to present more than one way of looking at the issue. I guess I should expect a debate when I present an opposing viewpoint, even if it's not something I personally endorse. = /
Don't even try to take the high road. You crossed the line. I'm a big advocate for opposing viewpoints as well, just not when someone that represents the company handling Berserk criticizes our fanbase for not buying enough copies.
 
Walter said:
In a nutshell, you said that some people here weren't buying enough volumes to be eligible to criticize them. (ex. "Hi, I have an issue with Dark Horse." "Oh, well you only have vol. 1-3. Your opinion doesn't count!")

I don't think that's a fair representation of my point. I was just trying to point out that often, someone will rant and rant about a product without having any intention of supporting it in the first place. And it's just like, jeez, if you aren't even invested in it, why make such a fuss over it? For example: CnC has every right to be upset things if he was buying the books. But often someone who has all the Japanese volumes and has no need or desire to buy the English versions will rant about things just to rant, and that doesn't help anyone. It just makes things seem worse than they are. = /

Actually, my opinion of the translation process has weakened drastically since you appeared. Now I know you subject yourself to scanlations which can SOMETIMES affect the final product. Even that "sometimes" is too much for me. That and the knowledge that you and Duane sit around talking about different ways to squeeze in a pop culture reference whenever translating a section is just too tough.

I'm sorry that you feel that way, because I thought I could help shed some light in a positive fashion on the translation process. Also, again: Duane doesn't subject himself to scanslations. And I think that last line is not fair to him as he does crazy amounts of research to be certain he fully understands whatever he's translating. I mean that he's researched the Kushan Empire, Japanese sentai shows that Puck references, etc. and never once has resorted to squeezing in a pop culture reference in lieu of actual translation. The two or three references we've ever made have always been, I thought, pretty subtle and something extra for fans of those things. And honestly, I probably shouldn't have said anything about them, because most people wouldn't even have picked up on most of them. I probably shot myself in the foot in saying anything. :puck:

I'd prefer you to stay away from Dark Horse-related threads....

Anyway, I'd say your involvement has mostly just been an annoyance...

I'm a big advocate for opposing viewpoints as well, just not when someone that represents the company handling Berserk criticizes our fanbase for not buying enough copies.

Well, again, I'll just say that criticism that way was not my intention. Consider it my blunder, accept this as my apology, and I'll not touch the DH thread or anything concerning the DH releases anymore. I made an error in judgement concerning how I could approach you guys about certain issues, and I'll gladly withdraw from the forums where these issues are discussed if it'll make things better for all involved.
 
Auturgist, before you leave:

I believe you said Duane was doing the FX translations as well... if that's the case could you guys try and translate them properly and not just settle for transliterations?
 
A.C said:
Auturgist, before you leave:

I believe you said Duane was doing the FX translations as well... if that's the case could you guys try and translate them properly and not just settle for transliterations?

That's the question that I've been meaning to ask too. Does Duane translate the sound-effects, or does he just romanize them? Because in volume 12, when I attempted to transliterate those things myself, using a dictionary, most of the SFX translations in the boxes turned out to be nothing more than romanized versions of the original Japanese SFX. For instance in vol 12, when that tornade-like vortex opens up, you can see this "GOGOGOGO" on the FX bubble, on repeated occasions. This is ridiculous, because even though I was one of the fans who requested DH to start translating the sound-effects in all their manga, I asked them precisely to translate them, not to romanize them.
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
Auturgist said:
For example: CnC has every right to be upset things if he was buying the books. But often someone who has all the Japanese volumes and has no need or desire to buy the English versions will rant about things just to rant, and that doesn't help anyone. It just makes things seem worse than they are. = /

CnC or anyone else also has the right to not own any of the DH releases but still "rant" about when someone's fuckin' up the series. Thats their right to do so and it doesn't make their opinion any less valid.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
CnC said:
CnC or anyone else also has the right to not own any of the DH releases but still "rant" about when someone's fuckin' up the series. Thats their right to do so and it doesn't make their opinion any less valid.
The reason one would "rant" about how DH is fucking up the series could just be the SAME reason one has for NOT buying the books they release. How can someone argue with that.
 

handsome rakshas

Thanks Grail!
Ahoy, mates! Volume 13 is in my paws! Grabbed the last copy from "local comic store" but I have a meeting in 10 minutes so I'll post more impressions and questions later. From skimming through it, nothing has changed from last volume as far as presentation. In the last episode of the volume (entitled "Vow of Retaliation", I thought it was Retribution, it sounds cooler!) Guts calls Skullknight "Skull face" which I find horrible yet very entertaining.
Once again, I'll post more stuff once I get a chance to read the volume. Good day to all!
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
handsome rakshas said:
Guts calls Skullknight "Skull face" which I find horrible yet very entertaining.

That's just Guts being rude, right, not an updated "translation" of Skullknight by DH? Hopefully, my local Japanese bookstore will have the volume in stock, although I imagine that it'll be a few days before it does, as that's what happened when Vol. 12 was released. Gotta remember to snag Vol. 31, which I know will be in stock, this Friday, too.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
handsome rakshas said:
(entitled "Vow of Retaliation", I thought it was Retribution, it sounds cooler!)

"Retribution" is the name of an arc (starts in volume 14), this is just the title of an episode. They're different. I think DH will translate it as "Conviction," which wouldn't be wrong.

Rhombaad said:
That's just Guts being rude, right, not an updated "translation" of Skullknight by DH?

It's not a translation of "Skull Knight." It's still not correct in regard to what it refers to though.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
handsome rakshas said:
In the last episode of the volume (entitled "Vow of Retaliation", I thought it was Retribution, it sounds cooler!)

Retaliation? ugh. I like retribution but w/e, not that big a difference.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Wow, I forgot about this whole mess. I wasn't qualified to talk about it anyway, because I don't own every crappy U.S. volume and am not a Dark Horse shareholder.

And not to beat a dark horse (see what I did there? :carcus:), but this guy never justified the examples of crap they apparently painstakingly snuck into the volumes, only deflecting with stuff like, "You'll like the product as a whole." Apparently not, since I already know what's being said, and I don't need to have it written in BAD English for embarassing posterity.

There's obviously an amount of artistic choice that goes with translating, especially with Japanese. But, you'd think that part of the craft is injecting as little of yourself as possible into somebody else's work, and going with the most accurate and conservative translation with regard to author's original piece. Obviously, while also taking into account literary basics such a setting, tone, and theme when choosing vocabulary. We all groovy on this?

[/soapbox]
 

handsome rakshas

Thanks Grail!
Speaking of "beating a Dark Horse" (Sorry for stealing that Grif, royalty check is in the mail  :guts:) your ol' pal Rakshas has finally had his great realization after reading volume 13. NEVER have I been more distracted while reading a great manga in my life. As probably with many others, volume 13 holds a special place in my heart. Its one of those volumes where I feel "drawn in" to the pages. You know, when your eyes move seamlessly from panel to panel in anticipation of what is going happen next? When seeing characters reactions and seeing the atrocities before you and you almost feel like you are expieriencing the events first hand? That did not happen when I read this volume. And I know this is old news and I do not want to start another debate but those damned FX boxes have robbed me of this expierience, an expierience I had when I first fell in love with this very story. Those boxes are so distracting to the eye that I feel I have been denied the true expierience of volume 13. It was like having your high school sweetheart alone for the first time and having her little brother bust in her room every 10 seconds and scream things like "KA-CHINK" or "GAGINNNNG" just when you get her pants unbuttoned. Your buddy Rakshas has been very late to take an official stance on this matter but I can tell you this. As long as these FX boxes are ruining my favorite story and one of the things that I absolutley adore in my life, I will not buy another volume of Dark Horse's Berserk manga. Thats it. I apologize for this rant but this is an absolute atrocity and a mockery of this fantastic world Miura has created for me and everyone else.

Edit: Good day to all my fellow Skullknight brothers and sisters, I love you all!
 
Right before Femto does his hand crushing trick, there's an FX box I just love.   :casca:



*FX: LIFT



because I needed that one...i really did...please note my sarcasim
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
Proj2501 said:
Right before Femto does his hand crushing trick, there's an FX box I just love. :casca:



*FX: LIFT



because I needed that one...i really did...please note my sarcasim

But the sound of lifting is absolutely necessary to understanding the plot!! Without those sounds, the story is meaningless and impossible to follow! Thank God for DH, I would never have known he was lifting something if it weren't for them (and the ability to read katakana and understand the idea of something that doesn't have a sound actually having a sound...).

[/pissed-off sarcasm]

Or, as Dane Cook would say: The movie DUNE is in my manga! I hate it when the movie DUNE is in my manga!! :puck:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Hey, while bashing Dead Horse, don't forget Bayjumper and his grandmotherish letter writing campaign to get boxes with "GOGOGOGO" written in them all over the artwork. I guess it's a case of be careful what you wish for.

Especially if it's fuckin' stupid.
 

TheSkyTraveller

Monster adventures on the high seas!
Time for me to jump back onto the band wagon (again) and mention that I've got Volume 12 checked out from the library and my favorite "translated" sound effect is Carcus' sword breaking on the rock. "BAKING!" Ooh, I smell brownies...
 
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