Author Topic: Casca: Griffith's Sword  (Read 6418 times)

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Offline 1nasdaq1

Casca: Griffith's Sword
« on: August 31, 2006, 01:31:37 PM »
There is a tie to that morning when Griffith is surrounding by the guards and he is missing his sword. He lost it in the fight the day before but Casca also realised her feelings for Guts and thus Griffith in a sense lost his 'sword' cuz thats what they said she was, his sword. U know what i mean?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2006, 02:32:04 PM »
Hey, that's an interesting parallel you've got here. It's relatively superficial all things considered (as the loss of Guts himself could be equated to the loss of his weapon; plus considering the fact that Casca did stay at Griffith's side at that time), but still pretty neat.

Offline vlad

Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2006, 02:49:00 PM »
Cool observation, and Guts is responsible for taking them both away.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2006, 03:06:19 PM »
There is a tie to that morning when Griffith is surrounding by the guards and he is missing his sword. He lost it in the fight the day before but Casca also realised her feelings for Guts and thus Griffith in a sense lost his 'sword' cuz thats what they said she was, his sword. U know what i mean?

Huh...never really thought about it that way before.  Good observation! :serpico:

Offline CnC

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2006, 03:06:58 PM »
Kewl symbolism you've picked up on there, 1dowjones!

Its strengthed by the scene before it where casca embraces Guts' former sword.
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Offline handsome rakshas

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2006, 10:20:25 PM »
Never thought about that! Nice find there nasdaq, and welcome to SK.net!

Offline Gurifisu

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2006, 04:27:26 AM »
My perception was that guts was the sword that replaced Casca's.  He didn't need Casca the moment Guts came.  And so she was taken from him.

oh, and just for fun... I always wondered how Griffith would of faired against those soldiers if he had his sword. :griff: to bad their isn't a reborn griffith version of that.
To me, a friend would never help my dream. Thats not something that anyone is compelled to do.  The reason for someone to live is to advance towards their own destiny. If theres someone who tramples over that dream.  He will stake his entire heart and soul and fight against that person.  Even if that person is me.

To me, I feel that a friend is someone who is my equal

-Griffith

Offline CnC

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2006, 09:49:16 AM »
My perception was that guts was the sword that replaced Casca's.  He didn't need Casca the moment Guts came.  And so she was taken from him.

Regardless of what Guts was to Griffith I beleive we're talking about Casca here.  The manga's pacing was bouncing between Griffith and Casca at this particular point in the story.

oh, and just for fun... I always wondered how Griffith would of faired against those soldiers if he had his sword. :griff: to bad their isn't a reborn griffith version of that.

OT: Well, if he had won we wouldn't really have a story. :schierke:
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2006, 11:28:45 AM »
My perception was that guts was the sword that replaced Casca's.  He didn't need Casca the moment Guts came.  And so she was taken from him.

Yeah but that's not related to this particular interpretation of the scene like CnC said. However you're correct in that it points to the superficiality of this parallel (which I mentioned in my first reply).

Offline Gurifisu

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2006, 11:16:05 PM »
Quote
OT: Well, if he had won we wouldn't really have a story.

I was talking about Griffith's skill in battle, and if he could of taken on that many soldiers at close range if he had his sword... not what would of happened if he'd won... just if he'd have the skills, don't burn down straw men, fool. :chomp:

Oh, course his torture was vital to the story.
To me, a friend would never help my dream. Thats not something that anyone is compelled to do.  The reason for someone to live is to advance towards their own destiny. If theres someone who tramples over that dream.  He will stake his entire heart and soul and fight against that person.  Even if that person is me.

To me, I feel that a friend is someone who is my equal

-Griffith

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2006, 11:38:26 PM »
I was talking about Griffith's skill in battle, and if he could of taken on that many soldiers at close range if he had his sword...

It's on purpose that we didn't see him fight them, in part to leave that question unanswered. But personally, I don't think he could have defeated so many soldiers, even with his sword. He had no armor and they were pikemen (long range), surrounding him and numerous.

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2006, 03:54:48 AM »
I'm just gonna add something onto here that the first post made me realize. Considering casca was always called griffith's sword, I would also like to say that Guts broke Griffith's sword in his farewell battle. So, another parallel could be made saying Guts also broke Casca's sanity.

I have never noticed it before, but there are a lot of broken sword references in the story. Such as Skull's prophecy about "One who stands with broken sword..." If that can be said to be true again. Guts is again standing with a broken sword (Casca) in a more figurative than a literal way.

Dunno if that makes much sense, but it did make me start thinking in a different direction.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2006, 04:24:03 PM »
Considering casca was always called griffith's sword, I would also like to say that Guts broke Griffith's sword in his farewell battle. So, another parallel could be made saying Guts also broke Casca's sanity.

Well she wasn't "always" called like that, it's just what she told Guts she wanted to be for Griffith after they fell down in the river. It's mostly something between her and Guts, nobody else calls her like that. And really, her wish was destroyed when Guts appeared, so that analogy is pretty shaky in the first place. Now, the part about how breaking Griffith's sword should related to the loss of her sanity 5 volumes later is just ridiculous. I mean the two things really have nothing in common. Hell, Griffith even got a new sword after they freed him, though he didn't get to use it. I think it's really far-fetched to try to relate the two events, and doesn't suit the context at all. Not to mention it's uncalled for in a lot of ways.

I have never noticed it before, but there are a lot of broken sword references in the story. Such as Skull's prophecy about "One who stands with broken sword..." If that can be said to be true again. Guts is again standing with a broken sword (Casca) in a more figurative than a literal way.

Sorry but I also think that's implausible. Not as much as your first idea, but still. Guts stood there struggling with a real broken sword, to relate this with Casca's sanity is a big stretch IMO. In fact when she was "broken" by Femto he wasn't standing anymore, he was prone. Moreover the sword analogy for her wasn't pertinent anymore at the time. I mean how many times was it used in total? Pretty much just during the span of the hundred men slaying in volume 7. And why would Skull Knight even care about trivial analogies like that (not to mention how would he even know it)? 1nasdaq1's comparison was already quite superficial all things considered, but taking it further just becomes preposterous. Otherwise everytime a sword appears we could try to link it to Casca somehow, and that would just be absurd.

Offline fuxberg

Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2006, 11:41:46 PM »
He didnt break Casca's sanity, he broke up with the Band of the Hawk or he broke the Hawks heart or (lol) he broke Griffith's sanity.. There are numerous possibilties  :miura:

Offline Gurifisu

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2006, 04:27:59 AM »
He didnt break Casca's sanity, he broke up with the Band of the Hawk or he broke the Hawks heart or (lol) he broke Griffith's sanity.. There are numerous possibilties  :miura:

There are numerous possibilties... yes there's numerous possibilites, but that deosn't mean they can't all be wrong; espiecally in the way you phrased them.
To me, a friend would never help my dream. Thats not something that anyone is compelled to do.  The reason for someone to live is to advance towards their own destiny. If theres someone who tramples over that dream.  He will stake his entire heart and soul and fight against that person.  Even if that person is me.

To me, I feel that a friend is someone who is my equal

-Griffith

Stellgod

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2006, 06:44:44 AM »

Sorry but I also think that's implausible. Not as much as your first idea, but still. Guts stood there struggling with a real broken sword, to relate this with Casca's sanity is a big stretch IMO. In fact when she was "broken" by Femto he wasn't standing anymore, he was prone. Moreover the sword analogy for her wasn't pertinent anymore at the time. I mean how many times was it used in total? Pretty much just during the span of the hundred men slaying in volume 7. And why would Skull Knight even care about trivial analogies like that (not to mention how would he even know it)?

If it's mentioned more than once by the author, then it's important. Sorry for trying to discover deeper meanings in Berserk.

In regards to SN, caring/knowing about trivial analogies. I wasn't referring to SN knowing or even caring about Casca in regards to the broken sword. I agree SN was referring more to the literal broken sword guts was holding. It is my assumption Miura is just tying a figurative analogy into the story.

Quote
In fact when she was "broken" by Femto he wasn't standing anymore, he was prone.

That's just asinine. Standing can mean more than just literally standing on a person's 2 legs. It actually has 46+ meanings in Webster's.
Quote
Well she wasn't "always" called like that, it's just what she told Guts she wanted to be for Griffith after they fell down in the river.
True, but Miura is directly correlating her with Griffith's sword.

Quote
Now, the part about how breaking Griffith's sword should related to the loss of her sanity 5 volumes later is just ridiculous. I mean the two things really have nothing in common. Hell, Griffith even got a new sword after they freed him, though he didn't get to use it.
That's putting way too much focus onto the literal object. It's the figurative meaning, not the literal here. It's not relating the specific weapon held at Griffith's side.

Sorry if I'm over analyzing things here, but I've always admired Miura's work more for his hidden anecdotes and themes scattered throughout his works.  :void:

Offline jepn30

Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2006, 07:15:56 AM »
If it's mentioned more than once by the author, then it's important. Sorry for trying to discover deeper meanings in Berserk.

Searching for meaning, allusions, and/or allegory in a narrative (whatever the medium) can be a very enjoyable part of the reading of the material. I don't think that Aazealh is in anyway trying to discourage you from doing so. However critical and/or literary analysis can often become convoluted and overworked - i.e. one gets to the point where they are just grasping at straws.

As a side note, Tolkien wrote one of my favorite remarks about allegory.

In regards to SN

Okay I am not trying to be an ass, but for some reason this is bugging me. Since your talking about Skull Knight, shouldn't you be using the initials SK?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2006, 07:21:03 AM »
If it's mentioned more than once by the author, then it's important. Sorry for trying to discover deeper meanings in Berserk.

Nothing in your baseless theory qualifies as important in the story. And because something was mentioned twice in a specific part of Berserk doesn't really make it a recurring theme present everywhere. Also, you're not going to discover some "deeper meaning" in anything here, you're inventing preposterous relations between things that clearly aren't related. Anybody can do that with anything and everything and really, there's no merit in doing so. Did you pay attention to what you quoted? The problem with your idea is that it's just not pertinent at all. Because I was nice in my first reply doesn't mean you should try to defend what you said as if you had actual tangible arguments when you don't...

In regards to SN, caring/knowing about trivial analogies. I wasn't referring to SN knowing or even caring about Casca in regards to the broken sword. I agree SN was referring more to the literal broken sword guts was holding. It is my assumption Miura is just tying a figurative analogy into the story.

Skull Knight is abbreviated as SK, not SN. Not sure how you managed to get that one wrong. And you know, your assumption is based on nothing but wishful thinking and therefore has no argumentative value whatsoever. It also doesn't fit the context of these events at all, like I already told you.

That's just asinine. Standing can mean more than just literally standing on a person's 2 legs. It actually has 46+ meanings in Webster's.

Well, it's not like you know what it means in Japanese, right? So how about you stop trying to sound smart? That would be a good idea. In fact SK doesn't even employ that word; I myself was just teasing you about it.

True, but Miura is directly correlating her with Griffith's sword.

Miura is just having her explain what she would like to be for Griffith. And letting out her frustration over the fact Guts plays the role she thought she could have before he appeared in their lives. This correlation is so superficial (and really, inexistent) outside of the context of the scenes it's featured in that it's just inane to try to equate it to anything. I don't think that's very hard to understand. It's completely figurative in the first place and doesn't actually relate to Griffith's real sword at all.

Sorry if I'm over analyzing things here, but I've always admired Miura's work more for his hidden anecdotes and themes scattered throughout his works.

You can be sorry indeed. You're definitely over-analyzing things here IMO, I'm sure you'll realize it sooner or later.

Stellgod

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2006, 09:38:32 AM »

Searching for meaning, allusions, and/or allegory in a narrative (whatever the medium) can be a very enjoyable part of the reading of the material. I don't think that Aazealh is in anyway trying to discourage you from doing so. However critical and/or literary analysis can often become convoluted and overworked - i.e. one gets to the point where they are just grasping at straws.

As a side note, Tolkien wrote one of my favorite remarks about allegory.

Okay I am not trying to be an ass, but for some reason this is bugging me. Since your talking about Skull Knight, shouldn't you be using the initials SK?

Thank you Jepn, and I apologize for spelling it SN. That is definitely the way to respond to a post. without being rude.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2006, 05:09:04 PM »
Thank you Jepn, and I apologize for spelling it SN. That is definitely the way to respond to a post. without being rude.

Cry me a river buddy. :schierke: When you're told something once and decide to be obtuse about it, ignoring what other people say and taking on a condescending "sorry for trying to search for deeper meanings" stance, what kind of response do you expect, huh? In the end you still had no argument/ground/anything and what you said was indeed preposterous, so really, don't ridicule yourself anymore and just drop it.

Oh yeah, and I think you should go look "rude" up Webster's, you'll find it's the perfect definition of your posts.

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2006, 10:58:49 PM »
The post above has absolutely no relevance to the topic being discussed here. There is absolutely no need for it. I was not taking this topic personally in any way shape or form, and I fail to see the point in trying to attack me personally. I know you are a moderator. I know you are extremely knowledgeable about things in regards to Berserk and Kentaro Miura. I have always respected your information and the things you bring to this community but the direct personal assaults on my character are completely uncalled for, and I frankly do not appreciate it.

I stated what I thought, and it is what I continue to think. Thank you for letting me in on your observations and what you also believe to be true in the Berserk universe. As far as everyone else, thank you for your insightful thoughts.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2006, 11:06:22 PM »
The post above has absolutely no relevance to the topic being discussed here.

Same with the post it's replying to. Such hypocrisy...

the direct personal assaults on my character are completely uncalled for, and I frankly do not appreciate it.

I don't appreciate your childish provocation, nor your lack of attention and consideration to what others tell you. At least take responsibility for your actions and don't play dumb when someone rubs your nose in your mess. You see, you're still trying to be sassy here when I've told you to quit. You weren't taking the topic personally? Can you be honest a minute and tell me what your "That is definitely the way to respond to a post. without being rude." line was for then? And coincidentally you ignored the fact I totally debunked your bitter response and didn't address my post. Even if that was unintentional (and I really don't think it was), it was already warranting the response I gave you. Grow a spine dude, and a thicker skin too. Now please go ahead and tell me where all the dreadful personal assaults are. Even by PM if you want. Failing to do so and since you have apparently nothing more to say regarding the topic of this thread, please don't post anymore.

Offline CnC

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2006, 12:54:29 AM »
The post above has absolutely no relevance to the topic being discussed here.

Speaking of which, neither does yours buddy.

"personal attacks of your character?"  Are you serious?  Do you think anyone really cares, dude?  You're overreacting and drawing way too much attention to yourself rather than discussing the topic at hand.  And by 'topic at hand' I mean the original post not your "theory".

1nasdaq1 brought up a very cool bit of symbolism, and you posted an additional theory which doesn't hold much water.  Casca was never considered "Griffith's sword".  It was something she aspired to be, and thus drove her character.  Considering that was the foundation for your theory it doesn't really get to go much further.  Sorry if you were expecting something other than a complete shut-down of your post by the admin. 

Its nothing personal, your theory was just unfounded, and subsequent posts were crap.  :schierke:
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Offline Funkmasta Zeph

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Re: Casca: Griffith's Sword
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2006, 08:55:12 PM »
Ah, symbolism.
Aint it nice to find those lil nuggets?