Dark Horse Releases

Oburi

All praise Grail
I also hate the fact that the boxes appear on the artwork I just remember being scared that they were going to edit out the original sfx and add new ones or something like that. It's still horrible how it is, I just meant that maybe I can get used to it now. DH's inconsistency is really annoying but what can we do, right an angry letter?
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Oberi said:
Really, Volume 14-roughly 23 is your favorite part. Isn't that the Lost Children Arc.
Well, volume 14-16 contains Lost Children. But it's not THAT long, ya know.

Not that theres anything wrong with that, I just can't believe it's your FAV section of berserk.
It's pretty high up there for a lot of people, myself included.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
Walter said:
Well, volume 14-16 contains Lost Children. But it's not THAT long, ya know.
It's pretty high up there for a lot of people, myself included.
O don't get me wrong I cherish every page of Berserk I'm simply saying that if I had to choose a favorite part I think the lost children arc, as great as it is, wouldn't be up there. It's more like a side story right? But I know now that he meant all the volumes from 14-23, not the lost children specifically.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Oberi said:
what can we do, right an angry letter?

That's what people did to have SFX put on the books, so... yes?

Oberi said:
the lost children arc

Geez guys it's not an arc but a chapter, do my posts count for nothing or what? Retribution arc, Lost Children chapter.

Oberi said:
It's more like a side story right?

No, it's not.
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
what a strange little debate.

Why is it so hard to beleive a lot of people love the retribution arc?
And the Lost Children chapter was in-fuckin-credible, imo.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
CnC said:
what a strange little debate.
Why is it so hard to believe a lot of people love the retribution arc?
And the Lost Children chapter was in-fuckin-credible, imo.
Sorry if I sound like I'm debating. I love the Retribution arc and the lost children chapters and I'm glad it's someones favorite I just thought someone said the lost children chapter was their fav. part of berserk and I thought it was strange just because of all the epicness of whats happening now and in things like the Retribution arc and such. I recall in other threads people saying you could take out the lost children chap. and the story would make perfect sense still, thats why I thought it seemed like a side story. But trust me I don't mean to debate.
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
CnC said:
And the Lost Children chapter was in-fuckin-credible, imo.

I agree whole-heartedly. Berserk contains way to much awesomeness for me to pick just one part as my favorite, but if I had to, the Lost Children CHAPTER (not poking fun at you, Aazealh, this is just how I show my support of the correct terminology :badbone:), would definitely be among the strongest contenders.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Oberi said:
who would do such a thing?

Read this thread and you will know. :SK:

Oberi said:
I love the Retribution arc and the lost children chapters and I'm glad it's someones favorite I just thought someone said the lost children chapter was their fav. part of berserk and I thought it was strange just because of all the epicness of whats happening now and in things like the Retribution arc and such.

Well you know, there's quite a lot of epic things that happen in volumes 14 to 23. Among them many which are absolutely vital to the plot and the development of all the characters (considering the vast majority of current main characters was introduced in these books). I mean it's so obvious I can't resign myself to explain it. I couldn't even make a list because it'd be too long. Just keep in mind that the current events are a direct result of what happened in these volumes.

Oberi said:
I recall in other threads people saying you could take out the lost children chap. and the story would make perfect sense still, thats why I thought it seemed like a side story.

Yeah there's like one guy that said so to justify his stupid movie idea once, but that's not the kind of person you want to take your opinions from, really (and I think he retracted himself afterwards anyway). Besides, like I said before volumes 14-23 encompass far more than this one chapter.

It's nothing big that different people like different parts of the story more than others. Anyhow, let's not drag that discussion on and on for no reason. You were surprised, Ok. Turns out that it's really many people's favorite part of the manga. Case closed. :serpico:
 

Scorpio

Courtesy of Grail's doodling.
Sent another email to Chris Warner, so I will list that along with his reply.

My email:
I would like to thank you for responding to my previous email, and for listing the reasoning for DarkHorse's decisions. However, among the things you said, some felt contradictory to me. You mentioned you tried to go for the least intrusive method, but boxes containing sound effects in the panels (however small they may be) still cover up artwork. I think the least intrusive method is inarguably an appendix, as the original pages aren't altered at all. As you mentioned, this would increase printing costs, but when you consider what would be one or two pages out of two to three hundred, this isn't much. Especially on such a large printing scale. The fact that not every volume has the same number of pages but retails for the same price suggests that DarkHorse has to be fairly flexible of the total pages in their released volumes.

An appendix would disrupt the flow of reading to a small degree, that is true, but at the same time so do the boxes containing the SFX. I have read through vol. 12, and there were parts that, to quote a friend of mine, "[in certain scenes] they're so flagrant and numerous, they forcibly jar the reader out of the scene's atmosphere." And all of this doesn't even touch on the visual balance of the pages, which is something Miura excels at. Yet this balance is often ruined by the intruding boxes.

Personally, I have no need for sound effect translations of any kind, but I understand that to some people it is very important, to the level of the displeasure I have with the boxes. What I'm suggesting is a compromise that would include SFX, but would keep all the art unspoiled at the same time. I also think those in favor of translations would enjoy an appendix more, as more information could be provided, even possibly cultural explanations or background. Lastly, I believe it would be a gain of time for the editors as well, more work being needed to edit artwork than to format a simple white page containing short lines of text.

Again, thank you for your time, it's much appreciated.


Chris Warner's reply:
I totally disagree that an appendix is intrusive to a small degree. Having to flip forward and back every page is a total disruption of the reading experience. That said, this is a completely unsolvable puzzle--no one seems to agree on what they want. You don't mind if the effects aren't translated, others begged for it. Some want completely retouched sound effects, others think this heresy. Some want appendixes, others absolutely hate them. Regarding the caption boxes, they are small, and we try to place them in dead areas of the art, or in gutters, wherever possible. I'm striving to make them less obvious (guttered captions weren't supposed to be boxed, and that will change for issue 14), but you're going to have get used to them, because that's how we're going to handle them from here out.

I have to say that I am very dissapointed with his response. He completely ignored some of his previous arguments and beat around the bush on others. When he talks about how I didn't mind untranslated effects and others begged for it, I had already touched on that and it was completely unnecessary. I have no idea how Im going to write back, as he has apparently attempted to close the book on the discussion, but I'll try to think of something.
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
thats really borderline infuriating, Chris.

Who the hell "begged" for "hyuuuu"?! Jeez, that shit's real informative. I'm glad that you think that inserting gibberish _on top_ of the art doesn't break the reading experience.

Sorry, but when it comes to people absolutely vehemently opposed to appendixes, I say "prove it". I don't believe it. And I don't think I'm alone on that.

I especially love the "editorial decision" made to cover up the negative space of the artwork. I mean, Miura must have just got lazy and decided to leave some dead areas, right?

Get used to it? Sure! I ain't buyin' them! To hell with it. I withdraw any request for a larger format, as its not worth the extra scale when the work inside is willingly defecated on. I'll support the original Japanese manga and be done with it, thank you.

PS. how do you miss that the gutter sfx captions were boxed?! That seems like it would be rather noticeable. I guess the reading experience was such that one should completely ignore them

PPS. Thanks Scorpio for keeping us up to date.
 

Scorpio

Courtesy of Grail's doodling.
I would have to agree, I dont plan on buying any further release. I try to be polite and form solid arguments for my point of view and how they could benefit the majority of people, and he just brushes me aside by spouting gibberish worthy of Sony executives, and then tells me to get used to it.
 

TheSkyTraveller

Monster adventures on the high seas!
Argh.

Well, thank you for taking the time to write, Scorpio. I'd been meaning to write for weeks, but the hard line response you received is really discouraging. Add that to the fact that I had written about problems early on in the US publication, and that others had written about numerous things since then, I don't know how else to solve the problem. Apparently they are only listening to people that have the opposite opinion we do! :???:

I've gotten to the point where I think I just am too frustrated to deal with it anymore. I don't think I'll be buying the rest of the US edition after this, either. Especially if we get treated to "groovy" translations.
 
An appendix appeases the most people I would think. If you were one of the people who didnt care either way for the sound effects, alright then, keep reading without consulting it. If you were one of the people who "begged for it" then im sure marking the beginning of the appendix and doing a quick back and forth flip wont be a terrible problem. Others have pointed out that it wouldnt cost much more either.

I would rather flip back and forth to the appendix than have white blocks permanentaly etched onto the artwork. Im sure the Dark Horse people will say that others dont have the same opinion as me, but i honestly think an appendix is the best way to go, because obviously not EVERYBODY can be satisfied, and no matter what, some people arent going to be happy. I think it would satisfy the most fans.

Theres my two cents anyhow.
 

DarkDragoon

Kuro no mahoutsukai
I finally just read through 12, and I have to say the FX boxes are annoying. They're distracting.. and they're really much less informative then I was expecting. Seeing "dododododododo" and "hyuuuuuuuuu" 3 times on the same page doesn't add anything to the story for me, it just takes away part of the artwork. I guess I can live with it.. it's not that bad.. but I'd rather they not be there.
 
nice of you to take the time to write up an Email. i only wish you would have mentioned something about the awful transliterations and the fact that future volumes will not always have "dead areas" of the artwork to put FX boxes on.

also, i don't think we should be discouraged by Chris' response. it doesn't really matter what his response is as long as he gets more letters that are against the FX than whatever the amount that was initially begging for translations. the POLL Aaz made seem to suggest that more emails against the FX shouldn't be that hard to achieve.

and is Chris the only one we can email about this issue?
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
A.C said:
and is Chris the only one we can email about this issue?

well, he _is_ the editor.

While it was nice to have him stop by every now and then and explain why certain decisions were made, I think his response to the criticism of the fx boxes is just the straw that broke the camel's back. Or at least this is the case to me.

On top of this whole fx blunder we have inaccuracies in translation, subtle references to movies that go outside of character, and the most childish summaries imaginable printed on the back of every single volume.
Now if a friend were to ask me what series to get I still wouldn't hesitate to recommend berserk to them (probably with the addendums on what to ignore), but as far as I'm concerned (as someone who owns the Japanese books) its completely a waste of investment to get the DH releases.

They either are incompetent or don't care. Either is unacceptable when it comes to this series.
 
CnC said:
 
On top of this whole fx blunder we have inaccuracies in translation, subtle references to movies that go outside of character, and the most childish summaries imaginable printed on the back of every single volume.  \

The logo. You've forgot to mention that ugly-assed, overly-stylized and "cheesy horror flick from the '80's" Berserk logo that Dark Horse uses on each and every American release, to top it all off. I don't whether they couldn't simply copy and use the English Berserk logo (which looks helluva lot better) that appears on the back of each original Japanese tankoubon, or they just let their "creativity" carry them away. But whatever the reason is, I don't like it. I wonder if  :miura: himself had actually approved of DH using that damn thing?
 
Scorpio said:
I have no idea how Im going to write back, as he has apparently attempted to close the book on the discussion, but I'll try to think of something.
i think you should just write back how you feel about this whole thing. don't go for questions or expect a reply, just write and say that you are disappointed. i mean we all should be considering that DH even promised that the Berserk manga would not have translated sound effects when it was first announced. (you could mention something about that) also, tell him about the transliterations not being proper translations anyway and that there will not always be "dead areas" of the artwork in future volumes and that he shouldn't make such a decision without knowing this can really be pulled off in every volume of the Berserk manga.
 
Aazealh said:
He doesn't have any contact with Dark Horse, so definitely not.

Well, doesn't Dark Horse notify at least the Hakusensha about how they're going to publish their manga? And also, I know that Dark Horse keeps in touch with the authors of the manga, whenever they need to do something to their manga that they (DH) had licensed. That includes flipping the manga, completely retouching the sound effects, censoring, and/or creating new covers and logos for the American release of the manga. Even though there's an existing English Berserk logo on the back of the original Japanese tankoubon, Dark Horse decided to create and use their own distasteful looking one. Just check the picture at Amazon.com

Link to Amazon

Looks splendid, doesn't it?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
BayJumper said:
Well, doesn't Dark Horse notify at least the Hakusensha about how they're going to publish their manga?

They have some contact with Hakusensha, although it's minimal and very formal from what Chris Warner said in one of his posts here. Dark Horse likely showed the cover design to Hakusensha and they didn't object to it; respect of the original cover art is probably all they care about. "If those crazy westerners want a heavy metal title, let them have one."

BayJumper said:
And also, I know that Dark Horse keeps in touch with the authors of the manga, whenever they need to do something to their manga that they (DH) had licensed.

Dark Horse has not revealed to have had any direct contact with Kentarou Miura so far and will most likely not have any in the future, from what Chris Warner said on this very forum.

Chris Warner said:
As Licensors, the original publishers contractually call the shots. Also, for the most part, we don't have direct contact with the creators. Overall, our relationships with our licensors in Japan are very good, but the relationships tend to be very formalized. The upside is that usually we don't receive a great deal of interference [...]

Don't forget that searching for information can often provide answers to your questions without even requiring you to post. Also, you should know that Miura apparently doesn't share with Hakusensha anything more than what is strictly needed for publication regarding Berserk, which led to some frustration on their side in the past (something like not knowing much more about it than normal readers). Knowing this, an extensive collaboration on details of foreign editions seems rather unlikely, not to mention that he's always very busy with his work.

BayJumper said:
Just check the picture at Amazon.com

Thanks but I saw that logo years ago, most probably before you did yourself. I think it could be worse, honestly, although it uselessly obtrude on the cover art (volume 13 comes to mind). Rest assured, many people agree with you about its distastefulness and complained about it when it was first divulged, but to no avail. In any case, they're not changing it.
 
CnC said:
On top of this whole fx blunder we have inaccuracies in translation, subtle references to movies that go outside of character, and the most childish summaries imaginable printed on the back of every single volume.

I'm with you on the FX boxes -- I don't like 'em at all. (Personally, I see no real point to translating sound effects. I mean, you can imagine what most things sound like. I wish they weren't even in the art in most cases, but you know, I'm not the artist. And maybe Miura doesn't even want to do them, but the precedent exists... who knows?)

What inaccuracies in translation are you talking about? Those made in the first three volumes (such as the mistake with "fate" as opposed to "causality"), or are there others? Because I'd argue the translations are top notch from volume 4 onward, when Duane Johnson took over.

We've been over the "subtle references to movies that go outside of character", and I can't help finding it ridiculous that you all go on complaining about this ONE WORD used to make that reference. Especially in light of how many of you have admitted you aren't actually reading or buying the DH releases anyway. And further in light of the fact that many people who are have said that they think the translations are excellent (regardless of how they feel about other things like the FX boxes, which is a totally seperate issue that does warrant controversy).

They either are incompetent or don't care. Either is unacceptable when it comes to this series.

It's so easy for you to say that because you make little attempt to understand that individuals involved are not all part of the same corporate machine that you see trying to ruin your favorite manga series for a buck. It's more complex, and many of the people involved are totally competent and care more than you realize or would ever admit, because you want to keep on blasting how imperfect the Dark Horse versions are. If you have the Japanese versions, and want your own perfect translations: scan them, digitally edit your own translations into the text bubbles, and keep them on your hard drive for your own perusal whenever you want to read BERSERK in English. Nobody's stopping you from doing that. Hell, I keep the scripts Duane gives me and edit them to my own taste after we go over them, precisely because I'd rather read "my own version" along with the Japanese volumes, than what we have to submit to Dark Horse.

I guess ultimately my point is that in the world of business, compromises have to be made. Not everyone agrees with all of them, but that's how money is made and the fact remains, however despicable, that BERSERK needs to make money if it's going to continue being published in English. If you can prove to Dark Horse it would make more money being published differently, write letters to make that point. But if you aren't buying -- or at least willing to buy -- them in the first place, all your complaints amounts to nothing. And at the end of the day, if the English version of BERSERK isn't something you would buy, it's no worse than if there were no English version at all, and you had to stick with your Japanese volumes.

I'm sure there are people who disagree with translations of literature, and don't buy those versions. The option of doing it yourself is always available, even if the right to sell your version isn't.

But calling talented people "incompetent" simply because they realize and accept the fact that compromises must occur isn't right. And saying they "don't care" is just naive. It establishes that you are an idealist, but not that you know what you're talking about when you comment on those people. I'd ask you to reconsider that comment. :schierke:
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
Auturgist said:
What inaccuracies in translation are you talking about? Those made in the first three volumes (such as the mistake with "fate" as opposed to "causality"), or are there others? Because I'd argue the translations are top notch from volume 4 onward, when Duane Johnson took over.

I realize you like your boss and are defensive in any discussion on how the overall quality of the translation. Granted, there aren't that many mistakes. My statement was meant as more of a "straw that broke the camel's back"-type argument with the fx boxes being the final reason to not buy.

Auturgist said:
We've been over the "subtle references to movies that go outside of character", and I can't help finding it ridiculous that you all go on complaining about this ONE WORD used to make that reference. Especially in light of how many of you have admitted you aren't actually reading or buying the DH releases anyway.

Well firstly I will state that I was buying the volumes. I recently stopped. However thats not really the issue, is it?
And you're quick to understate your own handywork, eh? You were the one who opened this floodgate with that "look for a subtle reference from Dune" -line. What were you expecting? A cookie?
...groovy

Auturgist said:
It's so easy for you to say that because you make little attempt to understand that individuals involved are not all part of the same corporate machine that you see trying to ruin your favorite manga series for a buck. It's more complex, and many of the people involved are totally competent and care more than you realize or would ever admit, because you want to keep on blasting how imperfect the Dark Horse versions are.

Believe me, I'd want nothing more than for DH to handle the series to the best of its ability. Its my opinion that its not. I draw _no_ satisfaction from that. To state otherwise is childish considering how long I've been a fan of the series. I wish DH well for bringing berserk to the US, but that does not excuse them from covering up the artwork.

I'm sure there are very competent people working for DH, all I can really judge them on is the final product.

DH has summarized Duane's work as "a bloodstained juggernaut, equal parts savage violence, gruesome horror, and black humor packed inside a flaming powder keg and rolled downhill into a crowd of terrified civilians". Is that how you would you describe it!?
Hard to convince me of a silver lining when the product speaks for itself.

Auturgist said:
Hell, I keep the scripts Duane gives me and edit them to my own taste after we go over them, precisely because I'd rather read "my own version" along with the Japanese volumes, than what we have to submit to Dark Horse.

Thanks for that marvelous solution. Can we talk about the DH releases now?

Auturgist said:
I guess ultimately my point is that in the world of business, compromises have to be made. Not everyone agrees with all of them, but that's how money is made and the fact remains, however despicable, that BERSERK needs to make money if it's going to continue being published in English. If you can prove to Dark Horse it would make more money being published differently, write letters to make that point. But if you aren't buying -- or at least willing to buy -- them in the first place, all your complaints amounts to nothing. And at the end of the day, if the English version of BERSERK isn't something you would buy, it's no worse than if there were no English version at all, and you had to stick with your Japanese volumes.

Great. Turning that argument around, would making any of the changes people have been complaining about in this thread make DH _lose_ money? I doubt it. In fact I'd argue if they described their own series better on the covers they could even make MORE money. Finally break out of that pre-pubescent demographic they seem to be targeting.
And would you get off that assumption I wouldn't buy them anyway? I've explained numerous times thats not the case. I wouldn't even bother posting in this thread if I weren't a potential customer.

Auturgist said:
The option of doing it yourself is always available, even if the right to sell your version isn't.

Is that your official stance on the subject (speaking as the consultant of a freelancer of the company, i mean :guts:)? Make your own version?
Gee why bother talking about this at all? That fixes everything!

Auturgist said:
I'd ask you to reconsider that comment. :schierke:

Well, I suppose you're right on that. My calling the work incompetent was spoken out of anger. I'm sorry.

Perhaps a better way of saying it is that the result of all the effort you, Duane, and Chris speaks of a measure of incompetence or obliviousness somewhere along the process. Is that better?
Cheers
 
CnC said:
I realize you like your boss and are defensive in any discussion on how the overall quality of the translation. Granted, there aren't that many mistakes. My statement was meant as more of a "straw that broke the camel's back"-type argument with the fx boxes being the final reason to not buy.

Okay, cool. I just wanted to be certain you didn't have any issue with the actual translations once Duane took over.

Well firstly I will state that I was buying the volumes. I recently stopped. However thats not really the issue, is it?

Hey, if you were actually buying the volumes, you have every right to be upset if they started doing something you found distasteful. And, I'd say you SHOULD stop buying them if they aren't providing you the level of quality you expect. Stop buying them and write to Dark Horse telling them you stopped, because that will get their attention.

And you're quick to understate your own handywork, eh?

Well, I also said that the DUNE reference was completely transparent, and it is. So much so that Duane himself forgot about it. So, pretend I never said anything about it, and tell me when you spot it if you are still reading the Dark Horse versions then. Because it's not something that shouts "Hey look at me! I'm a DUNE reference!" when you read it; in fact, I guarantee most people won't even pick up on it.

Believe me, I'd want nothing more than for DH to handle the series to the best of its ability. Its my opinion that its not. I draw _no_ satisfaction from that. To state otherwise is childish considering how long I've been a fan of the series. I wish DH well for bringing berserk to the US, but that does not excuse them from covering up the artwork.

Well, again, I'm with you on the FX boxes. I think it's silly and I personally wouldn't even bother with them, because I think you've gotta be pretty dense not to be able to imagine sound effects. Hell, if I were Miura, I wouldn't even include them in the original art, but again... neither here nor there, and this particular issue is beyond my control.

I'm sure there are very competent people working for DH, all I can really judge them on is the final product.

Fair enough. I just want people to understand that the individuals involved are not always in league with each other on all matters. I mean, I differ in personal opinion even with Duane sometimes. I can say that the final Dark Horse product is not what I would prefer it to be 100%, but even if it were, it would just mean that someone else would have issues with it.

DH has summarized Duane's work as "a bloodstained juggernaut, equal parts savage violence, gruesome horror, and black humor packed inside a flaming powder keg and rolled downhill into a crowd of terrified civilians". Is that how you would you describe it!?
Hard to convince me of a silver lining when the product speaks for itself.

That's marketing. Neither Duane nor I wrote that, but I think we both know why it's there. You know about BERSERK already, and you're going to describe it more accurately to your friends when they ask about manga. A summary like that is meant to entice the lowest common denominator with a promise of bloody, action-packed storytelling, so that someone who isn't interested in the more intellectual elements of BERSERK will still pick it up and buy it without prompting from friends who know about the series already.

I know, being intelligent can be a real burden because you have to tolerate not only the stupid people, but the world of marketing that panders to them. (I say that sarcastically, but it's the truth, and I do feel your pain.)

Great. Turning that argument around, would making any of the changes people have been complaining about in this thread make DH _lose_ money? I doubt it. In fact I'd argue if they described their own series better on the covers they could even make MORE money. Finally break out of that pre-pubescent demographic they seem to be targeting.

Think about it like this:

The lowest common denominator NEEDS those kinds of summaries to be enticed to take an interest (and ultimately purchase) the series.

The more intelligent readers (you, me, most of the people posting here) are assumed to be smart enough to know why they are there, and ignore them because they have no bearing on the actual content inside the book.

Dark Horse needs money from both the lowest common denominator and the more intellectual readers if they are to make enough to continue publishing the series.

Since there are more of the lowest common denominator than intellectual readers, Dark Horse has to pander to them while hoping the intellectual readers can forgive the flagrant English logo and gratuitous summary on the back cover.

And would you get off that assumption I wouldn't buy them anyway? I've explained numerous times thats not the case. I wouldn't even bother posting in this thread if I weren't a potential customer.

Ok, but there are people who love to bitch about this stuff and are perfectly willing to admit that they aren't buying the Dark Horse releases, completely shooting themselves in the foot in saying so. I see you don't like being thrown into that generalization anymore than I like being categorized as someone who isn't competent or doesn't care about BERSERK.

Is that your official stance on the subject (speaking as the consultant of a freelancer of the company, i mean :guts:)? Make your own version?
Gee why bother talking about this at all? That fixes everything!

I'm just stating something you don't need anyone, representing Dark Horse or not, to tell you about the matter. As it stands, I'm not an actual representative of Dark Horse, and I don't agree 100% with every decision made regarding the way BERSERK is being published in their versions. But at the same time, I don't view the people involved as vile offenders of all that which is good and holy, because BERSERK is a comic, and the option of buying and reading the Japanese volumes has always been available to me. I do care about the series immensely, and I do my best to make the English version as good as possible, within my limited influence, because I want other people to enjoy it.

But I also realize that with anything translated, people will never fully agree and there will always be minor disappointments. The only perfect solution on an individual basis is to get the source and either read, watch, or translate it yourself. This goes for manga, anime, novels, songs, whatever. "You want it done right, do it yourself." is the only way to have a totally agreeable translation of anything.

Well, I suppose you're right on that. My calling the work incompetent was spoken out of anger. I'm sorry.

Perhaps a better way of saying it is that the result of all the effort you, Duane, and Chris speaks of a measure of incompetence or obliviousness somewhere along the process. Is that better?

To avoid getting into a battle of semantics, I'll say that's a little better, and leave it to others to derive whatever implication is communicated in my hesitant acceptance of that phrasing.

Also, to some degree, I'm playing devil's advocate here because I feel like people are willing to blast someone or something completely for any perceived flaws or failings, but they don't have shit to say about the efforts involved in "good work". And you can disagree with some of the decisions being made in the DH release of BERSERK, but that doesn't mean every bit of effort that goes into it is characterized with carelessness, incompetence, or obliviousness.

I hope you aren't taking my responses personally. :serpico:
 
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