Author Topic: Episode 199  (Read 21828 times)

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Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2002, 05:14:11 AM »
No... dragons actually exist... they're numbers have dwindled down to 1... he is the last, and he's voiced by Sean Connery!!!

But in all seriousness, if Miura wants to make this story take a more fantastical route, he can do that... he's the bloody author.  However soon i'd like to see another war chronical round out the story (like in the beginning).  Perhaps with more epical proportions, i dunno.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Namirrha

Re: Episode 199
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2002, 08:32:04 AM »
Hi

<it's not by mean, but i would like to precise that fantasy and fantastic are not the same : fantastic is about strange events in a normal world, with fantasy the décor is modeled too.>

Nah!  This is just an example of steps that were taken in the 20th Century to continually sub-classify streams of fiction.  Fantasy, science-fiction, dark fantasy, sword and sorcery, lost world, science-fantasy, high fantasy, low fantasy etc - once they were all fantasy (much earlier 'Romances'), featured in the pages of magazines such as FAMOUS FANTASTIC MYSTERIES etc.  Now, you're not writing fantasy unless there's dwarves, elves and dragons.  

To hell with the barriers, I say.  

Namirrha

 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Psutek:  Evil!  Your evil is my good.  I am Psutek the destroyer.  Where I tread, I leave nothing but dust and darkness.  I find that good."
Doctor Who: Pyramids of Mars, British Broadcasting Corporation, 1975.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2002, 12:08:03 PM »
Quote
The whole reason y the Dragon Slayer was gathering dust till Guts picked it up was cuz there were no dragons in the Berserk world.

I dont quite understand your reasoning? Godo specifically designed the Dragon Slayer so that no man could wield it because he didnt believe in Dragons anyway. It doesnt say anything about the existence of Dragons whatsoever except for Godos personal beliefs.  BTW, for the totally anti-dragon people, Miura already drew a dragon in the series long ago if you remember, so you better quit reading the series right now (I already feel the terrible loss of your presence).

Why did this whole fantasy discussion have to be brought back, its totally stupid and unwarranted at this point (yeah, Poopsy looks dumb, but the rest is all in your heads). Why are you guys acting like Miura is breaking some set of rules he established. Youre all just whining and bitching for the sake of it, I doubt any of you would even know to complain if the trolls werent called trolls (not to mention the already much abashed golems, you know, the ones  nobody has even seen yet but already suck).  You also ignore the fact that Berserk has always been overrun with similar fantasy elements, you only see it when new ones are introduced (talk about the forest from the trees). Shit, why do you even read Berserk, for the plot and characters (ha!) or for its consistent lack of Dragons thus far?

-Griffith
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2002, 01:57:43 PM »
Quote

I dont quite understand your reasoning? Godo specifically designed the Dragon Slayer so that no man could wield it because he didnt believe in Dragons anyway. It doesnt say anything about the existence of Dragons whatsoever except for Godos personal beliefs.  BTW, for the totally anti-dragon people, Miura already drew a dragon in the series long ago if you remember, so you better quit reading the series right now (I already feel the terrible loss of your presence).




they don't count that, it's head was split open. [unless there's another dragon that i don't know about]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline The Perineum Falcon

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2002, 02:16:21 PM »
Quote



[unless there's another dragon that i don't know about]




this means that the series was damned to be fantasy from the start!!! :o
We often went to the cinema, the screen would light up and we would tremble, but also, increasingly often, Madeleine and I were disappointed. The images had dated, they jittered, and Marilyn Monroe had gotten terribly old. We were sad, this wasn't the film we had dreamed of, this wasn't the total film that we all carried around inside us, this film that we would have wanted to make, or, more secretly, no doubt, that we would have wanted to live.

Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2002, 03:48:06 PM »
Quote




this means that the series was damned to be fantasy from the start!!! :o


nope dosn't count, the only way they would call that a dragon is if it's head was not damaged [or chopped off].
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline crazyCelt

Re: Episode 199
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2002, 07:09:20 PM »
Quote

Why did this whole fantasy discussion have to be brought back, its totally stupid and unwarranted at this point (yeah, Poopsy looks dumb, but the rest is all in your heads). Why are you guys acting like Miura is breaking some set of rules he established. Youre all just whining and bitching for the sake of it, I doubt any of you would even know to complain if the trolls werent called trolls (not to mention the already much abashed golems, you know, the ones  nobody has even seen yet but already suck).  You also ignore the fact that Berserk has always been overrun with similar fantasy elements, you only see it when new ones are introduced (talk about the forest from the trees). Shit, why do you even read Berserk, for the plot and characters (ha!) or for its consistent lack of Dragons thus far?

As I've said, Berserk has always had its elements of fantasy but with a fresh perspective and look. Perhaps Schierke is the true focus of my disapproval but you have to understand why, God Hand forbid, some people are critical of Miura.

Puck is the first stereotypical fantasy character introduced and solely holds this position until recent chapters, imo. He is sort of a lovechild of Jiminy Cricket and Tinkerbell, being Guts' conscious, and has allowed me to neglect his unoriginal image. I wasn't reading Berserk when he was introduced  and since then he has become well established. Fast forward to the present, and Schierke seems to be the first coming of an obviously formulaic fantasy character, relative to me. If Miura develops her well, as I hope he will, she will still be visually conspicuous compared to all of the other original creatures he has created.

And as a general comment, I don' think you need to perform fellatio on an author's every word in order to prove you respect and understand the greater meaning of a work (Berserk).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2002, 10:14:53 PM »
wow we need the chapter... this is gettin' silly :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2002, 10:34:38 PM »
Quote
wow we need the chapter... this is gettin' silly :)

You ain't seen nothing yet. ;D

I’m not just defending Miura blindly, I just don’t see any lack of originality that merits attacking, I see a horizontal change on Miura’s part, not a vertical(good/bad) one. None of the designs in Berserk are particularly original, they’re all extremely well done, top of the line, but I’ve seen it all somewhere before.  Poopsy is no more unoriginal than any number of monsters or characters in the series; it’s just that she looks cute (and stupid) while most everything else looks fierce.  You yourself compared her to Puck, and she’s supposed to be tied to elves and whatever “side” they’re on, so technically, Miura has actually done quite the good job with her design in terms of consistency. :) So, who was really performing the fellatio? A white knight, a minotaur, a skeleton man, a badass dressed in black, yeah, how original.  Face it, original has nothing to do with it, you only stopped sucking because the juice was getting too sweet.

-Griffith

P.S. Let’s everybody see how long we can debate each other within the arena of oral sex analogies, it's fun. ;D

P.P.S. God, where is this chapter!?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline BOB

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2002, 11:49:40 PM »
Quote


P.S. Let’s everybody see how long we can debate each other within the arena of oral sex analogies, it's fun. ;D

My girlfriend doesn't like to swallow but it's impossible for me to connect that to berserk , sorry Griffith ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline crazyCelt

Re: Episode 199
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2002, 12:21:44 AM »
Quote
P.S. Let’s everybody see how long we can debate each other within the arena of oral sex analogies, it's fun.

:D

Quote

P.P.S. God, where is this chapter!?

Indeed. My unintentional trolling (pun) proves to be a bad time killer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2002, 10:05:30 AM »
Quote


What this really means? That Schierke and the trolls didn't exist before and they suddenly appeared out of the blue because some legends mentioned them ? Weird!

I had an thought.  Idea told Griffith that it was created by humanities desire to be controlled; although, I am not sure what gave humanity the power to create something like this, what if something similar is happening now due Griffith's rebirth though not in a metaphysical sense.  Maybe Griffith's rebirth has somehow given life to legends and fairy tales, allowing people's fears and fantasies to become real.  This would support the fact that "The children were the first to grow aware of it" since children have much greater imaginations than adults and therefore could be assumed to contribute more to the diversity of creatures suddenly appearing.... though this could be shot down depending on when Schierke first appeared (before or after Griffith's rebirth).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Online Walter

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2002, 11:05:39 AM »
Quote

I had an thought.  Idea told Griffith that it was created by humanities desire to be controlled; although, I am not sure what gave humanity the power to create something like this, what if something similar is happening now due Griffith's rebirth though not in a metaphysical sense.  Maybe Griffith's rebirth has somehow given life to legends and fairy tales, allowing people's fears and fantasies to become real.  This would support the fact that "The children were the first to grow aware of it" since children have much greater imaginations than adults and therefore could be assumed to contribute more to the diversity of creatures suddenly appearing....


Yeah, thats what a lot of us are beginning to believe.
Quote
though this could be shot down depending on when Schierke first appeared (before or after Griffith's rebirth).

I should add a "first appearance" table in the characters section. Ive been thinking about it, but I always forget . Poopsy the witch first appeared in Chapter 185
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline testaccount

Re: Episode 199
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2002, 05:15:12 PM »
Quote
Idea told Griffith that it was created by humanities desire to be controlled


I know I'm goin off subject here but....  I've heard about that whole thing about Idea several times, but have never seen it in the manga.  I heard it's part of a lost chapter or something; if it's a last chapter though and Miura decided to edit it out, shouldn't it be ignored?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Graywords

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2002, 08:54:18 PM »
Quote
I know I'm goin off subject here but....  I've heard about that whole thing about Idea several times, but have never seen it in the manga.  I heard it's part of a lost chapter or something; if it's a last chapter though and Miura decided to edit it out, shouldn't it be ignored?


Refer to the posts about chapter 83 on the Older Manga board, they should answer your questions.

Prepare to wade through 7-8 pages before you get to where the chapter was actually revealed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Mage

Re: Episode 199
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2002, 09:04:59 PM »
I think all/most of that chapter (Ch. 83 I think?) was scanned, if not translated... I the reasoning behind cutting it was in order to introduce it later.

If those fantasies/fears are manifesting themselves, and it's associated to Griffith's rebirth... it sort of makes Idea moot (being the product of humanity's instinctual unwillingness to accept that their suffering has no meaning). ...Or Idea is simply letting those fantasies/etc manifest themselves now that Griffith is reborn.
???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline The Perineum Falcon

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #66 on: April 18, 2002, 12:24:03 PM »
Quote
I think all/most of that chapter (Ch. 83 I think?) was scanned, if not translated... I the reasoning behind cutting it was in order to introduce it later.


all of the chapter was scanned eventually and was translated by The Hague (thank you god!). we dont know exactly why it was cut (at least i dont), but we assume that it just revealed too much about the Berserk World and Miura just didnt want to reveal it all at that point.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
We often went to the cinema, the screen would light up and we would tremble, but also, increasingly often, Madeleine and I were disappointed. The images had dated, they jittered, and Marilyn Monroe had gotten terribly old. We were sad, this wasn't the film we had dreamed of, this wasn't the total film that we all carried around inside us, this film that we would have wanted to make, or, more secretly, no doubt, that we would have wanted to live.

Offline testaccount

Re: Episode 199
« Reply #67 on: April 18, 2002, 04:56:38 PM »
Quote
but we assume that it just revealed too much about the Berserk World and Miura just didnt want to reveal it all at that point.


Isn't there also the possibility that he completely changed his mind and is now working on a different backstory?  It just seems to me that ppl r putting too much weight on a cut chapter.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #68 on: April 18, 2002, 05:12:11 PM »
Quote
Isn't there also the possibility that he completely changed his mind and is now working on a different backstory?

Yup.

Quote
It just seems to me that ppl r putting too much weight on a cut chapter.

Maybe.

-Griffith
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Olivier Hague

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2002, 09:20:35 PM »
Quote
we assume that it just revealed too much about the Berserk World and Miura just didnt want to reveal it all at that point.

That's not an assumption, Miura said so in an interview.
Of course, he may have changed his mind since then...
But:
* "Hell" is still there (volume 3)
* the "god created by man" concept is still there (Void refers to that several times during the Occultation)
* the appearance is still there (two pages in volume 13)
* the word "Idea" is still there (three episode titles in volume 20)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Gael

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2002, 11:04:50 PM »
HMMM i think that Griffith's rebirth was ultimately what he was working towards the whole time, the whole story Casca says that he know that he is not strong and that he needs to be become stronger. Perhaps Griffith knew all along that he would become stronger but that he would have to use the hawks to get there first. he just didn;t know how much he would take from them until the end.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Kenoh-Sama

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2002, 10:23:38 AM »
When the "falling action" commenses and all the elements come together people will forget about the appropriate fantasy elements and such. Just read and enjoy.  ::)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Ahmed

Re: Episode 199
« Reply #72 on: April 21, 2002, 08:18:40 PM »
COMMON PUELLA WHERE IS THE CHAPTER!!!

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #73 on: April 22, 2002, 07:04:11 AM »
Woohoo! I've gotten my hands on the translation of the Lost Childrens arc and Puck is hilarious! :) Specially when he saves Guts  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Online Walter

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Re: Episode 199
« Reply #74 on: April 22, 2002, 09:20:20 AM »
Quote
Woohoo! I've gotten my hands on the translation of the Lost Childrens arc and Puck is hilarious! :) Specially when he saves Guts  :D

Is it "Doc"'s/Erias's translation? If its not, would you mind emailing it to me so we could maybe get it on the  translations section, so we could all benefit? (http://www.skullknight.net/faq/section3/tempmanga.html)
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