Author Topic: Episode 281  (Read 27783 times)

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Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2007, 05:17:18 PM »
Sweet, thanks Aazealh! :serpico:

I hope seeing Griffith take part of the stage :griff:

I'm really excited at the possibility of seeing Griffith go one-on-one with Ganishka.  Maybe we'll get a better idea of what powers Griffith possesses as a God Hand in a mortal body. :griff:

Offline Triggormortis

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2007, 05:24:42 PM »
Wow, now this was one hell of an episode.
I like the look of Grunbeld's new shield. I wonder if it can do anything else besides canon-fire.
I also thought it was a cool idea for the Apostles to suddenly appear in front of Griffith and start the slaughter. What type of magic could this be?
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Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2007, 05:28:19 PM »
Wow, now this was one hell of an episode.
I like the look of Grunbeld's new shield. I wonder if it can do anything else besides canon-fire.
I also thought it was a cool idea for the Apostles to suddenly appear in front of Griffith and start the slaughter. What type of magic could this be?

If you look at the panel at the top of that page, you'll see the Neo Hawks' lancers riding beside Griffith and the other cavalry.  They then form a V in front of the other riders and start mowing down the Kushans.

Offline Triggormortis

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2007, 05:35:03 PM »
If you look at the panel at the top of that page, you'll see the Neo Hawks' lancers riding beside Griffith and the other cavalry.  They then form a V in front of the other riders and start mowing down the Kushans.
Aha, thanks for the clarification.
I love the character design in this episode- especially the Apostle that first moves in front of Griffith (next to Locus). I hope we get to see some history on this guy.
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2007, 05:47:52 PM »
Aha, thanks for the clarification.
I love the character design in this episode- especially the Apostle that first moves in front of Griffith (next to Locus). I hope we get to see some history on this guy.
Don't count on it. We've seen him several times before - he's just a recognizable face in the sea of apostles. Check volume 27 for the raid on Wyndham. He's always near Locus, and you can even see his apostle form.

Great ep. On reconsideration, I can't see why Griffith would need to keep his army in check really. He may as well turn them loose completely. Fuck the PR battle. This is war.  :chomp:

I was also surprised at first to see that Ganishka was shocked at the appearance of Griff's army, then again, it's likely just a reaction to the direction they came from.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Mad Angel Loki

Re: Episode 281
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2007, 06:49:38 PM »
BIG THANKS to you guys(Aaz&Saiya)I don't have the net at home currently so I could not thank you as much as I can but this may change soon... anyway its a really great episode the "Hawk Return" is really close for a lot of people of the Holy Sea and that will be interesting to see...

Anyway I wonder what is wrong with Ganishka,I mean he always knew that he'd lost this war(and the faster it will the faster I can change my picture :guts:) but he is not (or does not seem) to be a "kamikaze" in anyway so his strategy(attacking with human troop) is "disturbing" we could assume on what we know about the character that he must have something else against the Hawk and whatever it is(or not) I can wait to see what will happen!

Kipiteup everybody
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Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2007, 09:12:00 PM »
Great to get the high res scans.  Might be fun to color some of those spreads  :SK:, as scenes with griff are challenging.

[blasphemy]
I did have a few gripes with the narrative in this episode.  Its minor, but things like big G being possibly surprised that the hawks/Griffith might challenge the taking of Vitrannis now after he literally just fought them a few hours earlier seems odd.
Also the lines that were used by the Kushans are very odd.  I can't quite put my finger on it but the delivery of such lines like, "our army is large so we're slow to cope with this unexpected event" strikes me more as coming from someone who was merely spectating.  It just seems like a line I'd see in a shounen manga.
[/blasphemy]

*Braces for impact*

However as far as what to expect next, I would think there would be some legit challenge to Griffith taking the city.  He seems kind of invincible now.  I think the point of the battle the previous night was to take out (temporarily) Ganishka's ability to take his fog form, so I don't expect that to be the challenge.
We'll see.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2007, 09:16:41 PM by CnC »
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2007, 10:43:49 PM »

[blasphemy]
I did have a few gripes with the narrative in this episode.  Its minor, but things like big G being possibly surprised that the hawks/Griffith might challenge the taking of Vitrannis now after he literally just fought them a few hours earlier seems odd.
[/blasphemy]
Well, if you read the line directly before Ganishka's, the context spells out that he didn't anticipate the troops to come from that direction, i.e. from ruined ships near the harbor. I fully expect him to have a plan for retaliation, but the timing and location of this first attack may have already done too much damage for a recovery.
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Offline March of Flames

Re: Episode 281
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2007, 10:48:19 PM »
Thanks for the scans... another great episode!
you were my last great war, you were my heaven ablaze.

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2007, 11:45:10 PM »
Well, if you read the line directly before Ganishka's, the context spells out that he didn't anticipate the troops to come from that direction, i.e. from ruined ships near the harbor.

Quote
Soldier: Report!!
Parts of our cavalry and elephant-riding troops are disorganizing the battleline, it's out of control!

really??
Theres only so far I can argue that as I don't really know japanese.  But "masaka" seems like he wasn't expecting it at all.

I fully expect him to have a plan for retaliation, but the timing and location of this first attack may have already done too much damage for a recovery.

Seems a bit anti-climactic, huh?  Narratively speaking Miura has the given the advantage to Griffith at this point.  If the fog man is to be any sort of threat after this battle something unexpected has to occur.  Personally,  I hope that occurance comes in the form of a well placed tactical move rather than a display of power.
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Offline Jhot obs

Re: Episode 281
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2007, 04:14:28 AM »
Tanks Aaz & Saiya for the episode!  :serpico:

Beautiful public appearance to the Holy See/Owen that Griffith's return is real & not just rumoured. I wonder though, when this battle's over, how is Griffith going to explain the fact he's got giants & inhuman soldiers amongst his ranks to the bewildered onlookers in Vritannis? For the meantime, I think it's time for Ganishka's move; he knew Griffith would intervene, but with only him & his human soldiers, I don't know how he's going to pose a serious threat now. Without his fog magic, all I can think up is, besides his apostle form, there might be a familiar inside his personal carriage for serious shit like this.

One last note: think Silat's going to do anything but watch the Falcons smash up the Kushan forces?  :???: I just wonder what the hell he's doing there in the first place.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2007, 05:02:52 AM »
when this battle's over, how is Griffith going to explain the fact he's got giants & inhuman soldiers amongst his ranks to the bewildered onlookers in Vritannis?
This was my concern for a while too, prior to this battle. However, why should he have to explain it when he has the pontiff ... and GOD on his side?  :griff:
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Offline gh-zodd

Re: Episode 281
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2007, 05:35:42 AM »
This was my concern for a while too, prior to this battle. However, why should he have to explain it when he has the pontiff ... and GOD on his side?  :griff:

that's true, remember how the people reacted to mozgus, even after he changed into that lizard thing :)

Offline EndLeSS8

Re: Episode 281
« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2007, 05:57:39 PM »
2 words for this episode:


OH.

SNAP.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2007, 07:06:55 PM »
I feel sorry for the guys that have to carry around Zodd's extra armor when he's not using them. He should just go barbarian all the time and wear a break away bear skin. I like the implication that he actually changed out of these before the harbor battle. Are they running out of stuff in his size? Does he particularly like theses duds? Is he becoming less wasteful, conserving for the war? And Where does he change clothes? Does he have his own tent for this, the bushes, does he just have no shame, going around camp naked (think of the children)? If his armor is left unattended and some unwitting person takes it, will he hunt them down? I want to know more!

Anyway, I can't believe Ganishka is getting punked like this. I assume he still has some major magic at his disposal, as well as his foggy form (which no lone Apostle was able to contend with). Though, I wonder if his bout with Guts and Zodd hasn't severely weakened him in that regard. If so, this is like episode 192 all over again, except this is it for the main Kushan army. He better have SOMETHING up his sleeve or, he's just going to be the ultimate bearded loser on Griffith's march to glory.

The biggest question now, unless we've been very much misdirected, seems to be whether he'll take them on himself or escape. Or more simply, live or die (maybe he can beg forgiveness and join the Hawks as a squire; keeper of Zodd's underpants? =).

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2007, 08:07:22 PM »
does he just have no shame, going around camp naked (think of the children)? If his armor is left unattended and some unwitting person takes it, will he hunt them down? I want to know more!
Well, he was wearing that same armor in the flashback in ep 277. Maybe he has a fur pounch, like a kangaroo, where he can keep his armor after he changes forms?

Either way, we all know Zodd's not afraid to strut around in his birthday suit form, since that's how he was first presented to us, in all his nekkid glory, in volume 5.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2007, 03:32:06 AM »
Well, he was wearing that same armor in the flashback in ep 277. Maybe he has a fur pounch, like a kangaroo, where he can keep his armor after he changes forms?

Either way, we all know Zodd's not afraid to strut around in his birthday suit form, since that's how he was first presented to us, in all his nekkid glory, in volume 5.

I think he, after this many years, has come to be very secure about his natural exhibitionist self. He is probably trying to convince the others to do the same.  :carcus:

Regardless I don't think Ganishka for what ever reason was expecting it to turn out this way... with him saying it couldn't be/impossible I don't think he thought Griffith and Co. would strike so soon. Oh well, sucks to be him.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2007, 02:43:36 AM »
I can definitely see Ganishka emerging in the next episode, as more and more of his army is destroyed by the Neo Hawks.

He'll have to make a move quickly, that's clear. I'm not sure we'll see Griffith take him on though, the disposable general that's just been introduced is likely to be the one that'll get stabbed through the eyeball in episode 282 IMO.

I agree, as I think this will be a very Griffith-heavy volume, much like Vol. 27.

You think volume 27 is very Griffith-heavy? He didn't appear all that much in it. On the other hand the second half of volume 32 is probably going to be all about him and the battle.

I was also surprised at first to see that Ganishka was shocked at the appearance of Griff's army, then again, it's likely just a reaction to the direction they came from.
like big G being possibly surprised that the hawks/Griffith might challenge the taking of Vitrannis now after he literally just fought them a few hours earlier seems odd.

Where did you guys see that Ganishka was surprised at the appearance of the Hawks? What he's reacting to is this: "Parts of our cavalry and elephant-riding troops are out of control and disorganizing the battleline!" And in this context, "masaka" should be taken more as "could it be..." than "it can't be!!" Ganishka doesn't actually look all that surprised in the panel. A soldier is telling him his troops are mysteriously running wild, causing some chaos, and he's suspecting it to be the doing of Griffith & co. It looks like a perfectly normal reaction to me.

Also the lines that were used by the Kushans are very odd.  I can't quite put my finger on it but the delivery of such lines like, "our army is large so we're slow to cope with this unexpected event" strikes me more as coming from someone who was merely spectating.

Geez, the guy is merely stating the obvious (and speaking his lines instead of thinking them?), at most he's guilty of explaining what's happening so that some of the readers don't get confused. It can also be easily ruled as his complete astonishment at the turn the battle is taking, since like all Kushan generals so far except Daiba he doesn't seem to know the nature of Ganishka, nor the one of the Neo Hawks. When you're taken aback such things can (and do) happen. And this line aside I don't see anything that's out of the ordinary.

Anyway, I'm surprised nobody commented on the late appearance of the famed "land general." After all this time, here he is!


As important and remarkable as Daiba made him sound when he ordered him like a pawn in episode 243. So much in fact that nobody even noticed (or cared about) him. :void: And since we're talking about that, I can doubly understand the general's surprise at the ambush since Daiba's mission of clearing the coastal area tremendously failed.

I wonder though, when this battle's over, how is Griffith going to explain the fact he's got giants & inhuman soldiers amongst his ranks to the bewildered onlookers in Vritannis?

Well, they're all in their human forms so unless they were close enough I don't think soldiers from the Holy See would notice anything. And even if they did they could dismiss it as a mistake in the heat of battle. Grunberd's a giant, but Pippin for example was pretty big too, so from 1 km away and in the dust... Besides after what happened the night before, and in the world of Berserk where magic and such exists whether people believe it or not, it might not pose too much of a problem. They'll be too busy being grateful/impressed to speak up about it.

For the meantime, I think it's time for Ganishka's move; he knew Griffith would intervene, but with only him & his human soldiers, I don't know how he's going to pose a serious threat now. Without his fog magic, all I can think up is, besides his apostle form, there might be a familiar inside his personal carriage for serious shit like this.

Yeah, it's not looking too good for him right now. However, since Miura's been drawing battle scenes for the past 4 months, I have a feeling it's not just going to end in the next episode. I also think it'll take a while to destroy the huge Kushan army, so far the Hawks have arrived and pierced a flank but they haven't ended things yet.

One last note: think Silat's going to do anything but watch the Falcons smash up the Kushan forces?  :???: I just wonder what the hell he's doing there in the first place.

He's there because he should be serving his emperor of course! :SK: I think he's waiting to see the direction things are taking so that he can play his cards as well as possible. He has his own goal and he knows what both sides are like, which makes it all the harder to choose between them (just like between Scylla and Charybdis, really). What use would it be to go die against Zodd or some other apostles? Watching and not intervening is already an act in itself, and one that can have serious consequences. He's even more of a wildcard than usual this time, I could see him do a lot of things, from helping Ganishka escape the battle to trying to stop him/kill him, pledging allegiance to Griffith, just leaving the place unseen, etc.

I can't believe Ganishka is getting punked like this. I assume he still has some major magic at his disposal, as well as his foggy form (which no lone Apostle was able to contend with). Though, I wonder if his bout with Guts and Zodd hasn't severely weakened him in that regard.

There's also the fact that the current climate doesn't lend itself to fog at all. We've never seen the fog in action at noon, and I think there's a good reason for it. Of course he could still have some other trick up his sleeve, but I'm having trouble imagining him pulling the fog card this time around.

The biggest question now, unless we've been very much misdirected, seems to be whether he'll take them on himself or escape.

I'd certainly like to see him plow through the enemy in his apostle form to escape, but that's probably asking a little too much for now. I'm also wondering how he could outrun a whole army, flying apostles, etc. On the other hand, I don't see him dying so soon. Daiba's still alive, and Ganishka would die in 4 episodes? It seems a little too early. I'd like his last stand to be an all-magical final battle taking place in Wyndham, then after it's over they could throw his body at the bottom of the Tower of Rebirth. :griff:

I've also been thinking about the actual Kushan empire, I wonder if we'll see any of it. It could (probably will) break back into a multitude of clans without Ganishka, or maybe it'll simply turn out he ravaged the empire and it's desolated. OR the other nations (from the Holy See alliance) will mercilessly pillage it after Ganishka's demise. I like that last idea actually.

It's Doldrey on steroids.  We've had fog, the hawks charging a much larger force with their backs to the wall, someone mysterious standing on a cliff and watching Guts from afar, Zodd helping Guts out, and the creepy beardo in ceremonial armor getting stabbed in the face again!  Causality sure moves in mysterious spirals.

That comparison seems a little far-fetched/superficial to me.

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2007, 03:45:06 AM »
Where did you guys see that Ganishka was surprised at the appearance of the Hawks? What he's reacting to is this: "Parts of our cavalry and elephant-riding troops are out of control and disorganizing the battleline!" And in this context, "masaka" should be taken more as "could it be..." than "it can't be!!" Ganishka doesn't actually look all that surprised in the panel. A soldier is telling him his troops are mysteriously running wild, causing some chaos, and he's suspecting it to be the doing of Griffith & co. It looks like a perfectly normal reaction to me.

Whatever.  Even a statement like "could it be" seems odd to describe the people he's been fighting all night.

Geez, the guy is merely stating the obvious (and speaking his lines instead of thinking them?), at most he's guilty of explaining what's happening so that some of the readers don't get confused. It can also be easily ruled as his complete astonishment at the turn the battle is taking, since like all Kushan generals so far except Daiba he doesn't seem to know the nature of Ganishka, nor the one of the Neo Hawks. When you're taken aback such things can (and do) happen. And this line aside I don't see anything that's out of the ordinary.

I know he's stating the obvious, thats why it strikes me as wierd.  If it were done in a more practical way I don't think I'd have a problem with it.  Perhaps, "I can't believe our army is so slow to react our flank could so easily be penetrated." -or something that doesn't interrupt the flow as much.

But this really is minor, its not really worth arguing about.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2007, 04:26:04 AM »
Whatever.  Even a statement like "could it be" seems odd to describe the people he's been fighting all night.

How does it seem odd exactly? What makes it so? Again, he's not commenting on the Hawks (who didn't appear yet at that point) but on what's happening to his soldiers and elephants. I don't see what's odd about it, he's not flabbergasted or anything... Because he fought apostles earlier means he should have expected them to furtively drive his elephants mad? What do you think, he should have exclaimed "I KNEW IT!!" or something? Sorry, I don't mean to insist but I don't follow you on that one. Also, "all night" is a bit of an overstatement. Which reminds me of the time gap between the end of episode 278 and the beginning of 279, I wonder how much time passed. Guts & co are probably far away by now.

I know he's stating the obvious, thats why it strikes me as wierd.  If it were done in a more practical way I don't think I'd have a problem with it.  Perhaps, "I can't believe our army is so slow to react our flank could so easily be penetrated." -or something that doesn't interrupt the flow as much.

Uhh Ok I guess. Sounds like the same thing to me (in fact I like it better the way it's put in the episode), but whatever like you said. Indeed not a matter worth arguing about, I'm just a little puzzled at your point this time. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #70 on: January 29, 2007, 05:56:42 AM »
You think volume 27 is very Griffith-heavy? He didn't appear all that much in it. On the other hand the second half of volume 32 is probably going to be all about him and the battle.

Haha, yeah, I guess it isn't really that Griffith-heavy, after all.  I spaced on the fact that he only appears at the end of the attack on Wyndham and that it's the Neo Hawks' lancers that are featured the majority of the time. :beast:

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2007, 11:10:37 AM »
I can't believe the land general's such a loser  :judo:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2007, 05:58:52 PM »
I can't believe the land general's such a loser  :judo:

No kidding.  I didn't even notice that he was the land general until Aazealh pointed it out.  If he doesn't bite it here, maybe they'll develop him a little more.  That's a long shot, though, in my opinion, but you never know with Miura.

Offline EndLeSS8

Re: Episode 281
« Reply #73 on: January 29, 2007, 06:00:33 PM »
Is there any sort of chance that a smaller Eclipse might happen? There is no hint of one, I was just wondering because Eclipses usually happen when there is a huge amount of bloodshed.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 281
« Reply #74 on: January 29, 2007, 06:21:28 PM »
No kidding.  I didn't even notice that he was the land general until Aazealh pointed it out.  If he doesn't bite it here, maybe they'll develop him a little more.  That's a long shot, though, in my opinion, but you never know with Miura.

Haha come on, look at his face. He makes this guy look cool:


There's only death for characters like him. :idea:

Is there any sort of chance that a smaller Eclipse might happen? There is no hint of one, I was just wondering because Eclipses usually happen when there is a huge amount of bloodshed.

Nope, not going to happen. The God Hand is complete so there's no need for an Eclipse, and they only happen every 216 years anyway. Also, I'd rather say that bloodshed happens when there's an Eclipse, not the other way around.