Author Topic: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner  (Read 17355 times)

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Online Walter

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Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« on: February 02, 2007, 05:57:40 AM »
Since so few people seem to remember this guy, I was thinking on a thread focusing on this mysterious King Godot forged the Dragon Slayer for.


Supreme King Aolsier
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2007, 05:58:52 AM »
Yeah I'm pretty sure he could take on SK if he still had the DS. I wonder what happened to him after he killed that dragon. Maybe that was Grunberd's brother or something.

Offline handsome rakshas

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2007, 06:07:18 AM »
Yipes! I wouldn't want to meet up with HIM in a dark alley!

Offline A.C

Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2007, 06:40:23 AM »
now hold on a minute. i was under the impression that the king banished Godo because Godo made a dragonslaying sword that nobody could wheel... which sort of implies that the king never used it.

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2007, 06:43:26 AM »
now hold on a minute. i was under the impression that the king banished Godo because Godo made a dragonslaying sword that nobody could wheel... which sort of implies that the king never used it.

He couldn't wheel it, but he could still use it to kill a dragon...

Offline bastard_swordsman

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2007, 11:10:16 AM »
Maybe he used a crane? Or just a group of soldier lifted it?

Online Walter

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2007, 11:22:46 AM »
Maybe he used a crane? Or just a group of soldier lifted it?
He's clearly wielding it with one hand in this shot.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline bastard_swordsman

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2007, 11:54:32 AM »
Magic. Elfish magic. That's the best explanation I can offer... That, or Godo wasn't being very clear when he explained it. Or, the thing we se in Aolsier's hand in the picture is actually a sign that states "Kill the Dragon!", not the DS itself.

Offline JZBaltazar

Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2007, 11:57:58 AM »
Aolsier might be an apostle who for some reason was not satisfied with the nature of the DS. Or somebody we know took care of him.  :SK:

It has been stated that DS acquired special abilities as Guts used it to cut through spiritual beings, but I do not remember Guts having any difficulties with cutting through that monster which came to Godo's house. Could it be that DS was already special because of the first owner?

Incidentally, is that supreme king riding a skinny rhino or a unicorn? :puck:

Offline bastard_swordsman

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2007, 12:17:24 PM »
I think it's just very elaborate barding on a horse, from the shape of the head.
Sudden thought - you just raised the possibility of the Sword leaving Aolsier's hands upon his death. Also, we know no normal human lifted it before (thanks to Godo). Finally, we know the Berserker's Armour's previous owner died from overusing said armour. If the armour can amplify Guts' already impressive strength to the point of catching an entire ships mast, maybe it could boost a normal human (Aolsier) to the point of weilding the DS?
That'd be an interesting parallel between him and Guts.

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2007, 12:41:50 PM »
I'm thinking Aolsier might be waiting for Guts in Elfhelm, that'd be a nice twist. We don't know what happened to his kingdom after all. He could be like a new Skull Knight, a mentor that Guts would train under, something like that.

Offline bastard_swordsman

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2007, 01:29:10 PM »
Nice angle, but do you think Miura has built him up enough for that? He's only had a passing reference, to a point where some people don't even remember his name. But yes, the fact he was pictured could allude to a later appearence, so I see your point.

Offline space_elevator

Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2007, 01:38:49 PM »
I'm as obtuse as possible, but hopefully I won't disturb things by sticking this in here.  It might even play well to the intentions of the discussion.  :???:

Speaking of this mystery kingdom that commissioned the DS, it couldn't have been Eath, could it?  Lots of nobles and military commanders from all the "mainland" kingdoms saw the DS in Vritannis, but there wasn't any hint that anyone recognized the sword.  If you'll play along, assume for the purposes of speculation that Roderick, being young and disinherited, is simply unaware of this old story. The sword's backstory could be altogether unknown, or a state secret like Charlotte's maidenhead, but I kind of doubt that.  I think a "proclamation" sounds like it would've been widely circulated information, and people would've had some curiosity as to how that turned out.  I know Godo worked for a lord near the mountains where Guts encounters him, but the location of the kingdom that requested the DS isn't suggested by the text, is it?  DH uses the article "a".  It doesn't really spell out the relationship between Godo's lord and the castle/king Godo escaped from.  Perhaps they were college buddies?  It would at least explain how Godo could safely hide near his original workplace if the castle he escaped from was actually very far away.  I hope it's okay to bring all that up.  I had to rework it a little for the sake of "brevity".

More likely, there won't be so much additional backstory, but all in fun.  It's a goofy idea I enjoyed thinking up.  I know I didn't tie it together with Aolsier, but I came up with this independently, and it just seem like as good a place as any to mention it.  More fuel for the fire, if nothing else.  Flamify!

Offline bastard_swordsman

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2007, 01:59:20 PM »
That does make me question where Aolsier was king of, actually - Kushan doesn't have a title of 'King', and he isn't mentioned in Midland Royalty.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2007, 02:45:21 PM »
Speaking of this mystery kingdom that commissioned the DS, it couldn't have been Eath, could it?

It's not impossible, but it probably wasn't Ys. Too far away/hard to reach, for one thing. But who knows.

Lots of nobles and military commanders from all the "mainland" kingdoms saw the DS in Vritannis

"All" the mainland kingdoms? Who's to say how many of them there are? And from what Godot said he forged the DS when he was young, that can mean up to 50 years ago. It shouldn't come off as a surprise then that the people in Vritannis aren't recognizing it. Not to mention that after what happened to Godot the DS was probably not a popular topic at the court.

the location of the kingdom that requested the DS isn't suggested by the text, is it?

No, it's not suggested.

It doesn't really spell out the relationship between Godo's lord and the castle/king Godo escaped from.

Godot has no lord... The local guy he made equipment for most likely isn't related to the kingdom he used to live in. Don't forget he escaped that kingdom in order to save his life.

It would at least explain how Godo could safely hide near his original workplace

Nothing hints anything about Godot's "original workplace" in the manga. I don't think you should assume that.

That does make me question where Aolsier was king of

Tudor of course!

Offline bastard_swordsman

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2007, 03:11:39 PM »
Tudor of course!
Gah! How did I forget about Tudor... *sits in the corner with dunce hat*

Offline A.C

Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2007, 04:22:26 PM »
i'm confused. i don't recall that picture from the manga, nor the name Aolsier. neither is in volume 14.

this is what is said on page 32 and 33 in volume 14:

Godo: A king sent out a proclamation long ago... and so the lord put me on the job... to bring him a sword that could kill a dragon...

Godo: At that time, I'd gotten sick of doing work for nobles. "Make 'em refined, make 'em elegant..." Swords are just large butcher knives, after all. Tools meant for killing people.

Godo: And so I forged it... as it was described. A sword that could butcher a dragon.
[picture of dragon killed by the sword, imagined by Godo]

Rickert: S-so then...?

Godo: I almost got hung out to dry... so i ran away from the castle town, and i've lived here quietly since. I sure was young back then. Mighty things, things that could kill. That's all there was for me. But if anyone could handle this, It'd still just be a hindrance. I don't like losin' track of the essence of a tool, but that's exactly what I did here. Now it's a good reminder.

Offline bastard_swordsman

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2007, 05:32:20 PM »
Well, to be honest, I'm one of the people who doesn't remember him  :???:
So I'm just checking volume 14...
Edit:
HAH! I get it now  :guts: Keeping my sig anyway.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 05:41:24 PM by bastard_swordsman »

Offline space_elevator

Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2007, 05:50:21 PM »
It's not impossible, ... But who knows.
Yay! Reasonable doubt!  I can't express my joy.

...after what happened to Godot the DS was probably not a popular topic at the court.
 
Sorry, I was just trying to suggest the author had an opportunity to expand the backstory there, and didn't.  That's no basis for conclusions, but it was the last opportunity for Guts (w/DS) to interact with those groups and expand on his relationships with them, for a good long while anyway.  If we're going to get DS backstory, I'd guess it could only occur where Guts is/going, or with Rickert & Erica, since they're really the only characters in the story I assume would express knowledge or interest in the DS.  It's plausible Rickert & Erica could turn up with the Holy See Alliance, thus putting them in range of Tudor...s? (plural?)  I'd just get a kick out of seeing them interact with Schierke and Isidro, so I'd prefer them out towards Y's (like the game?).  My silly story isn't necessary for that, and the DS backstory would probably be paired with it being reforged/repaired so it doesn't break, as Godot alluded to the last time he checked it... but getting them back in the story, I'm very curious how Miura will do it.  My twisted reasoning was largely a wild guess at that.

Godot has no lord... The local guy he made equipment for most likely isn't related to the kingdom he used to live in. Don't forget he escaped that kingdom in order to save his life.
 Can't translantions be confounding?  I was referring to the same "local guy" via the DH interpretation, and basing part of what I said on a comment Erica makes about Godot previously.  DH went with "Daddy's real famous in town", blah blah, "local lord"; Puella renders it "called a master smith in this town", "the lords back then".  I'm not sure where Godot's hut is in relation to this town, and the sequence of events in general.  Could anyone enlighten me?

1. Young Godot does work for a local guy/lord, who lives in a town.
Is it the same town Erica brags Godot is known in; near the mine?
2. A King wants a sword to kill a dragon.
This is a different person than Young Godot's previously mentioned employer right?  And is there any indication of how this king relate to that town, or the Young Godot town, if there are two different towns?
3. Godot makes the sword, pisses off "the castle".
Did he go to the castle, send the sword to the castle, mail them a picture of it?  How much is absolutely stated?  The DS either never changed hands, was returned to him, or he took it back somehow, because he's still got it when Guts shows up (how explicit is the timeframe?) fifty years later.  ...Well, we can rule out it not changing hands, on account of Supreme King Aolsier, duh.
4.Godot escapes the castle.  Subsequently, lives in the hut where Guts interacts with him.
Does it state he physically escaped custody, or "escaped" prosecution/a punishment?  On one end of the spectrum he would have to physically break out of a dungeon and hightail it, possibly with a wagonload of large metal objects, on the other, perhaps his life is spared by the king (Supreme King Aolsier, it just roll off the tongue.) but told: "you'll never work in this town again", hence his current digs.

Nothing hints anything about Godot's "original workplace" in the manga. I don't think you should assume that.
 No, there isn't anything like that in the background he and Erica supply.  But thinking about it, the DS was made a long time ago.  Was Godot at the hut when he made it, and if not, is it still a certainty it was made from the precious Elf Metal?  All I remember is a statement that he settled there because of the ore, not that the DS was made from it.  I had based my statement on that, but now that you pointed that out I can't recall if it was established that the DS was made from the ore in the cave.  Did Skull Knight say so at some point?  Naturally the lack of affirmative proof would not mean it was not so, but it seems worth mentioning.  The first sword Guts used on the bulldog/pig apostle a Godot's place likewise isn't explicitly identified as being made out of local ore, but since it was made so recently at that location one assumes so.  It didn't seem to gain any particular bonus from that, if it was made from...Elftainuim...Dwarfanite...ooh, I've got it, Aolsier Metal.

SKA FTW!  By the way, that image isn't from volume 14.  I just have the american releases, and haven't gotten the 15th yet.  I'd look through all of mine for the image, but it's too much work.  If someone else is looking through theirs, perhaps we could split our already small collection in two, and check half of it.  I think I could meet that challenge.  Or, that image isn't in any of the volumes I'm familiar with.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2007, 11:10:27 PM »
Yay! Reasonable doubt!  I can't express my joy.

Well if that's what "unlikely" means to you, sure. :void:
  
Sorry, I was just trying to suggest the author had an opportunity to expand the backstory there, and didn't.  That's no basis for conclusions, but it was the last opportunity for Guts (w/DS) to interact with those groups and expand on his relationships with them, for a good long while anyway.

The situation wasn't exactly propitious to such a thing though. There were more pressing matters at the time.

If we're going to get DS backstory, I'd guess it could only occur where Guts is/going, or with Rickert & Erica, since they're really the only characters in the story I assume would express knowledge or interest in the DS.

I'd say it's more likely to occur where Guts is going. Hence the idea of him meeting Aolsier in Elfhelm.

Y's (like the game?)

Ys like the legendary maritime city. The game series takes its name from it too, but the original tale is likely what the name is referencing in Berserk. Please note that no official spelling has been confirmed for now though.

I was referring to the same "local guy" via the DH interpretation, and basing part of what I said on a comment Erica makes about Godot previously.  DH went with "Daddy's real famous in town", blah blah, "local lord"; Puella renders it "called a master smith in this town", "the lords back then".  I'm not sure where Godot's hut is in relation to this town, and the sequence of events in general.  Could anyone enlighten me?

I know you meant him, but my point is that the guy isn't Godot's lord. He rules on a town nearby, maybe a few others as well, but Godot lives remotely in the moutain, all by himself, and the guy's got no authority on him. So it can't be said that he's his lord. I think you're really confused about this whole thing so I'll try to explain below.

1. Young Godot does work for a local guy/lord, who lives in a town.

No, Godot used to work for various nobles in an unknown kingdom back in the day. The same kingdom he fled after the DS fiasco.

Is it the same town Erica brags Godot is known in; near the mine?

Not at all.

2. A King wants a sword to kill a dragon.
This is a different person than Young Godot's previously mentioned employer right?  And is there any indication of how this king relate to that town, or the Young Godot town, if there are two different towns?

There's no mention of a "previous town." The only town mentioned is the one near Godot's current place, by Erica. Back in the day, Godot used to work in an unknown kingdom, for important nobles (what is referred to as "lords" in the translation). These nobles can't be compared to the little chieftain that rules over the small town near Godot's hut. There's lord and lord basically. So these various, unnamed nobles were clients of Godot, and resided in the unknown kingdom he escaped from after the DS incident. So far at that point in time, Godot has been living in that unknown kingdom, and has never been at the mine or the hut where he'd later live (after fleeing his country).

3. Godot makes the sword, pisses off "the castle".
Did he go to the castle, send the sword to the castle, mail them a picture of it?  How much is absolutely stated?  The DS either never changed hands, was returned to him, or he took it back somehow, because he's still got it when Guts shows up (how explicit is the timeframe?) fifty years later.  ...Well, we can rule out it not changing hands, on account of Supreme King Aolsier, duh.

It's likely he lived in the capital city of that kingdom back then, as he used to work for important nobles, that likely lived at the king's court. There are no precisions in that regard. And he took the sword (and some of his other belongings) with him as he escaped of course.

4.Godot escapes the castle.  Subsequently, lives in the hut where Guts interacts with him.
Does it state he physically escaped custody, or "escaped" prosecution/a punishment?

He physically escaped custody. Fled from jails under the castle.

perhaps his life is spared by the king (Supreme King Aolsier, it just roll off the tongue.)

Nope.

"you'll never work in this town again", hence his current digs.

A king rules over a kingdom, not a town. Again, the only town ever mentioned is the small one near the hut, and it's when Erica brags that he's famous in there.

As a recap: Godot lived in a foreign kingdom, and had prestigious clients. He was bored of forging jewels-encrusted swords though, and took up the king's order for a sword that could kill a dragon literally, knowing full well he'd piss him off but going for it anyway. He was sentenced to death, but promptly escaped from a maximum security jail. He ran far, far away, and settled in a desolated place in which he had never come before. There his masterful smithing skills made him famous to the local hicks.

No, there isn't anything like that in the background he and Erica supply. [...] Was Godot at the hut when he made it

No, he wasn't.

is it still a certainty it was made from the precious Elf Metal?

There's no such thing as Elf Metal, and it's quite certainly not made of metal from the mine he ended settling nearby. It's just extremely unlikely he knew of that mine while living so far away from it.

The first sword Guts used on the bulldog/pig apostle a Godot's place likewise isn't explicitly identified as being made out of local ore, but since it was made so recently at that location one assumes so.

Yes, the first sword was definitely made from local ore. Unlike the DS, which Godot made before coming to live there. Of course, nothing indicates that metal from that mine would be special in some way.

By the way, that image isn't from volume 14.

Must like volume 13's episode 83, it was never published in volume form. Miura removed several pages from episode 93 at the time, apparently because it revealed too much about future events... Not much more is known though.

Well, I hope I helped you see clearer in all of this! :guts: Anyway, I think it'd be better to focus on Aolsier himself since this thread is in Character Cove (and our lengthy posts aren't exactly on topic). The origins of the DS itself have already been discussed at length in a number of other threads, I recommend you to check them out. =)

Offline A.C

Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2007, 06:51:02 AM »
He was sentenced to death, but promptly escaped from a maximum security jail. He ran far, far away, and settled in a desolated place in which he had never come before. There his masterful smithing skills made him famous to the local hicks.

that's very specific, i'm not sure we can know for sure if he was ever imprisoned or sentenced to death. and why do you think it was a maximum security jail?

Godo said they almost hung him out to dry... which could mean that they intended to hang him, but that seems awefully harsh punishment and i'm not sure Godo is saying it litterary.

now for Aolsier. is there any scans of these removed pages to be found like episode 83? or maybe just a transcript of the text on the pages? if all the info on Aolsier has been removed from the volumes then it's a little hard to discuss him.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2007, 07:14:58 AM »
that's very specific, i'm not sure we can know for sure if he was ever imprisoned or sentenced to death.

They almost hung him, that's what a sentence to death is. And he escaped from under the castle, where he was detained. What's under a castle except for jails? The kitchen? Maybe they planned to have him wash dishes or something? :schierke:

and why do you think it was a maximum security jail?

Someone didn't grow up watching the A-Team.

Godo said they almost hung him out to dry... which could mean that they intended to hang him, but that seems awefully harsh punishment and i'm not sure Godo is saying it litterary.

That "seems?" Like, you're not believing what he's saying? I think it's pretty literal, what with the gesture he makes saying it and all. And for someone that angered a king, death isn't surprising. Look at the king of Midland. Anyway, I don't see any reason to doubt what's said in the manga.

now for Aolsier. is there any scans of these removed pages to be found like episode 83? or maybe just a transcript of the text on the pages? if all the info on Aolsier has been removed from the volumes then it's a little hard to discuss him.

I think Wally has a transcript up like he does for episode 83 on the site.

Offline A.C

Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2007, 07:19:19 AM »
And he escaped from under the castle, where he was detained. What's under a castle except for jails?

i can't recall a sentence like that from the volume. was it also removed by Miura?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2007, 08:01:37 AM »
i can't recall a sentence like that from the volume. was it also removed by Miura?

Nope, it's in there. You can check puella's translation of this scene here: http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=4811.0

Offline A.C

Re: Supreme King Aolsier: Previous DS owner
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2007, 08:27:29 AM »
since Miura removed the pages with Aolsier, maybe we should respect Miura's wishes and not discuss him at all. perhaps it's better if we tried to remove the name from our memories. i'm sure that's what Miura would want.