How long will Gatts survive

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
That's a technicality.
Yeah, a correct technicality as opposed to misinformation. ;D (Being an ass is fun, fun, fun!!)
yeah, I have a right to say "no shit sherlock" about now, since that's the exact point I made.
Maybe Cronus meant that it was Griffith that decided save her, not the child.  I can't speak for him, but I personally don’t think the child has THAT MUCH sway over Griffith already, Griffith had to of at least wanted to save her as well.

-Griffith
 

Wereallmad

I love YaBB 1 Gold!
Yeah, a correct technicality as opposed to misinformation. ;D (Being an ass is fun, fun, fun!!)

-_-+

Maybe Cronus meant that it was Griffith that decided save her, not the child. I can't speak for him, but I personally don’t think the child has THAT MUCH sway over Griffith already, Griffith had to of at least wanted to save her as well.

-Griffith

I dunno, I didn;t detect any sarcasm, but sometimes that doesn't carry over the internet.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I personally don’t think the child has THAT MUCH sway over Griffith already, Griffith had to of at least wanted to save her as well.
???Isnt this what was just addressed? Well..all I have to say (or say _again_ as the case is) is:
griffpause.jpg

Thats some sway in MY book.
 
yeah, I have a right to say "no shit sherlock" about now, since that's the exact point I made.
Sorry, I guess I read it wrong...my bad.

And I think that it wasn't ALL the child that made him do it...I think he still gives a poop about Casca, regardless. But hey, i could be blatantly wrong...
 

Wereallmad

I love YaBB 1 Gold!
Sorry, I guess I read it wrong...my bad.

It happens.

And I think that it wasn't ALL the child that made him do it...I think he still gives a poop about Casca, regardless. But hey, i could be blatantly wrong...

I'm not saying he doesn't still have feelings for Caska. But I think they were dormant untill the child rekindled them.
 

fletch

Treading trodden trails for a long, long time.
ok, now i know skull knight said that gatts is the one who can fight & survive, but how does that say that he's outside of causality? i think that could just as easily mean that gatts is simply fated to fight, or survive. though i'd like to know how the skull knight knows this about gatts...
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
ok, now i know skull knight said that gatts is the one who can fight & survive, but how does that say that he's outside of causality? i think that could just as easily mean that gatts is simply fated to fight, or survive. though i'd like to know how the skull knight knows this about gatts...
Guts IS outside of Causality. There is no question about this. Guts being branded leaves him spiritually "dead".
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I didnt forget it, in fact i was going to include it in my last post here, but i didnt think it applied as much. Anyway "A mere jumping fish cannot disrupt the flow of the river"
 

fletch

Treading trodden trails for a long, long time.
i think everyone assumes that gatts escaped the eclipse, not because of fate or Idea's machinations, but because of sheer will to live and the intervention of the skull knight. clearly, gatts would not have escaped without these two factors, but, is that necessarily why he escaped? this is speculation, of course, as there's still conmparatively small evidence to support my view, but i think it's a definate possibility nonetheless. Idea is supposed to be nearly omniscient (my argument does hinge on this point, so i might be mistaken), so it seems to me that gatts could just as easily have been MEANT to escape, just as the skull knight could be meant to counter god hand. i don't think that Idea is able to be destroyed, or even opposed. i know it's been heavily implied otherwise, but by whom? are we to assume that the hand of god is also all knowing? i think that god hand only knows what Idea wants it to know, just as it appears that griffith hasn't recieved much information either. i'm actually a fan of Idea, though, so my opinions might seem odd, but i think there's some evidence to support me. anyway, let me know if there's something blatantly wrong with my argument, but i haven't seen anything in the manga to flatly contradict it yet.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
i think everyone assumes that gatts escaped the eclipse, not because of fate or Idea's machinations, but because of sheer will to live and the intervention of the skull knight.
Guts escaped the eclipse because Skull Knight stepped in and saved the day. Even God Hand didnt predict it. They say "even though we are as Gods, we cannot forsee all paths. This is one of many possible paths."
Idea is supposed to be nearly omniscient (my argument does hinge on this point, so i might be mistaken),
Idea is not omnicient. There is nothing that infers this. Idea simply manipulates humanity by forging men before they step foot on the earth. Men are destined to walk a certain path because Idea manipulated them from the very beginning. HOWEVER. Guts (in my opinion) survived, where he should have died. Why? Thats where the sheer will to live part comes in, and Idea must have overlooked it.

it appears that griffith hasn't recieved much information either.
Griffith doesnt seem informed? ??? How so? So far hes doing pretty damned good if you ask me. He found armor, a horse, where Guts and Casca would be, infiltrated the Kushan army. Thats pretty damned informed. I think Griffith is aware of plenty of things we dont know about yet. He was once tied to causality.
 
They say "even though we are as Gods, we cannot forsee all paths. This is one of many possible paths."

As you know, these "post-eclipse translations" aren't reliable...  :-/

"Foreseeing everything is impossible. After all, we're not God. Or was that one of the foreordained destinies as well?..."
... and it looks like Void knows if it was indeed foreordained or not... but he remains silent.

By the way, the Skull Knight didn't really say that Guts was _outside_ of the Causality. He said that now that Guts is branded and "between two worlds", he merely made a little step outside of the principles of the world. That's a bit different...
It looks like Guts_may_ go against Causality (and be a "jumping fish"), but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's been totally freed from it...

Also, in volume 20, the Skull Knight told Luca that the principles of the world may change because of Griffith's incarnation...
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
... and it looks like Void knows if it was indeed foreordained or not... but he remains silent.
Wow...I never noticed that.

Also, in volume 20, the Skull Knight told Luca that the principles of the world may change because of Griffith's incarnation...
I also never knew that
 

eintrigga

Today's Yamaba?
Remember Skully also mentioned the fish thing in vol 17
He said something like Guttsu could be the fish that can disrupt the reflections of the lake (the mirror/shadow of the eclipse)....
 

fletch

Treading trodden trails for a long, long time.
the inferences that a drew from Idea having the capability to forge mankind's destiny are thus: if Idea can successfully create a destiny for one man over the course of 1000 years (or even 100, it doesn't really matter for this point), that implies a great deal of foreknowledge. omniscience may be stretching it, but as he shaped and forged griffith from bloodlines over the millenia, could he not do with another? or countless others? indeed, wouldn't he _have_ to in order to assure that the world stage was ripe for the arrival of griffith, whom he intended to be femto & a conqueror? that's foreknowledge. again, not omniscience, but if you know enough to do such a thing, would it be too difficult to predict the actions of just one man? particularly one man whom is so close to your chosen "messiah?" indeed, as crucial as gatts has been to griffith, i find it difficult to believe that gatts wasn't part of Idea's plan for griffith, or the world. maybe gatts has defied expectations by living through the eclipse, but i somehow doubt it. all the players involved are people whom Idea would probably pay particular attention to. i would assume, but may be wrong, that Idea has pretty intimate knowledge of the skull knight, & at the least would track his movements. if Idea wanted gatts dead, he could've commanded griffith to kill him when the skull knight approached the occulation. that's my reasoning, anyway. that's assuming Idea has at least some limited multi-tasking abilities, however, which again, i infer from his aforementioned abilities. & that also assumes that Idea would insure the success of griffith's ascension by keeping an eye on the individuals with the power to interfere. correct me if i'm wrong, but i think it's a fairly logical argument. granted, i think gatts is something special, there's no debating that. he's a man in a world of death, & yet he lives & has retained his passion & his dream. yes, he's branded, & yet he lives on. there is no debate as to the strength of gatts, or that he has a unique role in the berserk universe. however, why could that role not be planned for? i dunno, i think gatts might eventually break with causality, but i think it'll be at some future point. i think gatts has a specific destiny, but breaking with it will come later, at the finale.
 

Eclips

Guts: *puff* "Oh yea that is some gooood shiznit"
If SK hates God Hand, how does he perceive the current rise of griffith?? does he want to destroy griffith and his dream???seeing it like the will of god hand??


maybe he doesnt want god hand to do to griffith what they did to gaiseric



i think he knows Gatts is outside casualty and CAN obliterate griffiths dream,


maybe he seeks those who are outside of casualty , like himself, to aid him , indirectly or not, to destroy god hands will


thats why  i think SK has been helping Gatts out ever since he became branded and uninfluenceble by god hand
 

Asir

that facil is to die, that dificil is to be born
I think the same as Walter about the nature of the Idea, not they can consider it as "God" in our concepts, as the said, is not omniciente neither omnipotente, but well, the Idea, is something asi as done Feelings form, collected life and conscience and accion, is the union of all the human fears along them you were that they have been accumulated thanks to the wars and castatrofes natural, saidIn another form is like a psique collective, Naturally to survive, needs the feelings but common in the human beings, we say, that the angeles they complement those fears.

Void: to be able

Slan: lujuria or desire (this is not denied)

Ubik: cruelty (by its aspect the word "sadism" is hit me but to its nature

Conrad: vanity (but well as itself diria to the afan excessive of knowledge)

Femto: ambicion (someone not this deacuerdo?)


in if, Idea as the I empty, simply represents the desesperacion total of the man, when is felt lost completely against the world that surrounds it and the events that they control them, Idea, controls the desires humanods to be able to follow existing and to enlarge its influence, as they say, the can manipulate the destiny of the men as of controlling what they desire and they fear, the idea is the same fear,ignorance if we want it to see but filosoficamente and the Skullknight, podria to be the heretic, the one that is opposed to the order, in other words Skullknight represents to the ANARQUIA, the event that tries destuir to all the order established and Gatt, is one of those elements (the concept of will is what podria to represent to Gatt) If the Idea manipulates and controls the human beings, ¿not to be possible that the humans do the same thing with the Idea?
 

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
We re all talkin casuality, the flow of karma, but no one seems to notice an interesting yet crappy character. Lucca, the nice whore that was saved by Skully K. I really don't know hat happened to her since I've red only until chapter 164 or somethin(italian version), but why does Skully save her and asks all those funny questions like "could she be...". My point is, all this demon existence is taken for granted, but clearly Miura does imply that there is a god in the series. "the God that was not made by Humans". All this demonic activity passing without god doing anything? And maybe that "God made not by humans" is really evil, since it started the whole prophecy about the "hawk of light" which is actually a big screw up, since Gatsu is the hawk of light.
Maybe there are saints as well as monstaz, and Lucca is some sort of paladin (BOOOM!!!).

Gatsu, in the end, will surely DIE. It can't finish otherwise. The Chapters of"The Golden Age" are his happiest times in life, beyond which he won't go as we see only BAD really BAD things happen to him.

che sara sara,
but not thanx to karma
 
why does Skully save her and asks all those funny questions like "could she be...".

That scene doesn't necessaritly have deep meaning.
The Skull Knight was probably just surprised at her going back to the Tower, and was wondering why she did that: foolishness, or... something else?
I don't know about you all, but I think that Luca is probably the "strongest" character of the series... ^^;

My point is, all this demon existence is taken for granted, but clearly Miura does imply that there is a god in the series.

He _showed_ that god, in volume 13.

"the God that was not made by Humans". All this demonic activity passing without god doing anything? And maybe that "God made not by humans" is really evil,
Of course, he's evil. He's the _Idea_ of Evil.  ;D
since it started the whole prophecy about the "hawk of light" which is actually a big screw up, since Gatsu is the hawk of light.
There's _absolutely nothing_ about Guts being the Falcon of Light, so far.
Gatsu, in the end, will surely DIE. It can't finish otherwise.
Why not?
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Gatsu, in the end, will surely DIE. It can't finish otherwise. The Chapters of"The Golden Age" are his happiest times in life, beyond which he won't go as we see only BAD really BAD things happen to him.

Geez dude...thats seriously really, really depressing. And I SO do not think that is how things are going to end up. Guts might have had good times back then, but why should it end in tragedy?

For three years (chronologically) Guts fought against demons and jackass humans, for what? SO that he could be at peace; his revenge taken. Since then, he has come to realize that without Casca, the most important person in his life, he can't really achieve anything. He cannot abandon her. Guts has more direction now, and he is growing and changing. There is MUCH to be developed in the future of Berserk. HELL the biggest plot twist in the series just happened (well...second biggest) the story is going in a completely different direction now.
 

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
Well, I kinda got the feeling in (damn I m at work and I don't have the mangas with me!!!).
Please, ppl, I sense a strong tone of negativity here.... I DO ADORE THE SERIES, you know.
But it's just that, this cannot end happily, it wouldn't be miura. When the skull knight saved lucca i puked from cheesiness. What is this superhero saving maiden drama? But then, after he pondered upon her destiny, it did sound like there's a rat hiding in that lil speech.
And Gatsu....i regulary cry reading the manga. That sounds overrated, but folx that know would never believe that. 8)
but screw that...

i don't want Gatsu to die either, but I just keep having this feeling lately, that the last sword on the graveyard of swords is going to be... :'( :'(
the dragonslayer :'( :'( :'( :'(
 

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
I state such thing cuz I don't think gatsu will become a supernatural anyway, for he probably has something super in him already (wielding the dragonslayer). Furthermor, gatsu REALLY hates apostoles. He once said that beherit's are for weak ppl that wish to becom strong so they ask angels for help. That s why i said griffis was weak. He indeed asked for the wings of darkness, to fly him to the castle.
 
Top Bottom