Poll

Choose one you think is the most horrible father.

Federico Vandimion
3 (2.6%)
Zepec
13 (11.4%)
Midland king
57 (50%)
Gambino
41 (36%)

Total Members Voted: 109

Author Topic: Who is the worst father in Berserk?  (Read 29163 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Forest Wraith

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 259
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Evil is born when we lose power over ourselves.
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2007, 05:18:46 PM »
My Hat's off to Gambino, I can understand him working so hard to make Guts tough but the man is childish himself. The scene where Guts scores a hit when they are sparring and he responds by getting enraged and cutting him across the face sums it up for me. A really cool and confident mercernary badass would have just laughed it off, praised the kid for showing such skill and toughness: And then kicked him again while his guard was down for balking at having cut somebody . . .
 Pimping your adopted son crosses a line too. However, as if that weren't enough: Instead of accepting his fate and just deciding to live quietly after losing his legs. Gambino couldn't be at peace with himself and had to take out his anger at his feelings of weakness on Guts . . . People who scape-goat others for their own misfortune and failings are beneath contempt in my opinion.

If you put aside the fact he was an apostle, the Count was great to his daughter. He locked her up in her room, but that's not the end of the world, especially for a noble's daughter. He never harmed her and in the end, chose to die rather than sacrifice her.

My thoughts exactly. It's all the more impressive when you take into account the fact of how inhumane being an Apostle encourages people to act. Yet he always treated his daughter with Humanity, he really Loved her.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 05:23:59 PM by Forest Wraith »
The cold season drifts over the land.
They all huddle in the brown corners.
Some would settle for less.
The castles were all empty, asleep
Long awaiting their King.
Beckoning round the bend.
-Opeth: Karma

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2007, 05:21:17 PM »
I see, thank you for explaining.
I put my vote for the King in the end.

Offline Locus of Agony

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 101
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • The location of agony? The human soul.
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2007, 01:22:04 AM »
Interesting poll. I love it when a topic forces me to examine the characters of Berserk a little bit closer.(often a frightening prospect  :guts:)

I voted for Gambino, the way he just sat there the morning after Guts' rape and pretended nothing was going on still sets my teeth on edge.  :SK:

But props to the King, sick and twisted man, sick and twisted. Sorry Dirty Dog, I can't find a single drop of sympathy in my heart for that guy.

Zepec disgusts me also, unable to cope with life, he simply made it worse for his family.  :puck:

The only one of the four I can make a excuse for is Farnese's father who, though a absolute ass in most respects, did try to defend his daughter.

Wait, having a witch in the family would make him look pretty bad to wouldn't it? He probably protected her for his own reputation, so scratch that, their all big fat jerks.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 01:51:33 PM by Locus of Agony »
For every single day you lived, for every fragment of your broken dream, the night is so evanescing.
Don't let anyone walk over your dreams, don't let them fall on the path.
If they do, I will be one meter behind you, I'll pick up and clean them for you.

Offline puella

  • Gourmet Elf
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
  • Karma: 696
  • Gender: Female
  • Popopopopopopopo!
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2007, 08:16:23 AM »
I'm going with Gambino.  Of all those people, he's the only one who didn't consider himself a father.  That rejection (his role as a father) has had more repercussions in the manga's story and thus outwieghs the others (to me).

Strictly speaking, Gambino had no duty to raise Guts. He was not the one who picked the newborn baby and he just let his girl do whatever she wanted. Of course, I'm not justifying his harshness to Guts but at least I want to say it's true Guts was a burden left to him.

The only one of the four I can make a excuse for is Farnese's father who, though a absolute ass in most respects, did try to defend his daughter.

When did he try to defend Farnese? I don't remember reading that. Could you tell me more about it?

But in Berserk, there aren't many good fathers. I even wonder who can be considered a "good" father in the manga. Godot? Yeah, he's the only one, maybe? (I'm including foster-fathers).

Yesterday, I thought about Berserk all day, yeah, sometimes it happens to me. :badbone:
Suddenly, I found a real good father (he's not even a foster-father) in Berserk. Why didn't I think of him? Guess who?

Foss

Offline Dirty Dog

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 129
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Avatar by CnC ^^
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2007, 08:27:17 AM »
Yesterday, I thought about Berserk all day, yeah, sometimes it happens to me. :badbone:
Suddenly, I found a real good father (he's not even a foster-father) in Berserk. Why didn't I think of him? Guess who?

Foss
From what we're shown, he is probably the best father in Berserk.
A pathetic man, but a good father.
Quote
Reject the world as it is. It must be superceded before it can be valued.

Offline Rhombaad

  • Old Fart in Training
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4207
  • Karma: 48
  • Gender: Male
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2007, 09:37:54 AM »
Yesterday, I thought about Berserk all day, yeah, sometimes it happens to me. :badbone:

Not a bad way to spend the day, in my opinion. :guts:

Suddenly, I found a real good father (he's not even a foster-father) in Berserk. Why didn't I think of him? Guess who?

Foss

Yeah, from what we see of him and his daughter when they're reunited, in addition to the fact that he helped Griffith murder the Queen in exchange for his daughter's safety, certainly gives the impression that he truly loves her. :serpico:

Offline Uriel

  • 天下無敵者
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2045
  • Karma: 41
  • Gender: Male
  • This journey isn't ov--AARGH!
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2007, 02:42:46 PM »

Piss and Blood!... 0 votes for Federico Vandimion, but 4 for Gambino. Have you people even read Berserk? I can only take some solace that nobody voted for Zepec; Berserk's Ultimate Dad. There is some good in you people, I feel it.

I voted for the King of Midland. He was a bad egg. There were points that I thought he was a pretty stand up chap... the way he told Julius to hold his tongue when he congratulated Griffith. But then he went ahead and tried to rape it daughter after throwing her lover in the Tower of Rebirth.. bad move, your Highness.

Good idea for a thread -- I'm amazed at how many responses it has in such a short amount of time. I think Dirty Dog might have had something to do with that....

Offline CnC

  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 5076
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Male
  • Ad Oculos
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2007, 08:20:15 PM »
Strictly speaking, Gambino had no duty to raise Guts. He was not the one who picked the newborn baby and he just let his girl do whatever she wanted. Of course, I'm not justifying his harshness to Guts but at least I want to say it's true Guts was a burden left to him.

Well, true.  But a lot of dad's don't ask for that responsibility.  I don't think he's absolved just because he didn't want Guts.  But whatever.
My original point was an attempt to measure the father by the child in the two worst candidates (Gambino and the King).  I just went with Gambino because I don't think Charlotte's been fleshed out enough as a character compared to Guts.
Its tricky to name the worst on that list, as they're all bad.

When did he try to defend Farnese? I don't remember reading that. Could you tell me more about it?

I think maybe he was referring to when he diverted the crowds attention away from Farnese's use of witchcraft?  I dunno.  Even if that's what he's referring to, that act was a selfish one - as any accusation of Farnese being a witch would stain his family name.

Suddenly, I found a real good father (he's not even a foster-father) in Berserk. Why didn't I think of him? Guess who?
Foss

I would rank the Count higher than that, myself (strictly speaking of how he was as a father).  I mean, all I really know of Foss' relationship with his daughter was that Foss was willing to betray his plot against Griffith for her.  Compared to the counts sacrifice that seems a little less selfless.
But again, don't really know much about Foss.
If I had to pick the best father I'd say Godo.
I'm sick of following my dreams.  I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later...
- R.I.P Mitch Hedberg
CnColors!

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18433
  • Karma: 634
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2007, 08:53:21 PM »
I think maybe he was referring to when he diverted the crowds attention away from Farnese's use of witchcraft?  I dunno.  Even if that's what he's referring to, that act was a selfish one - as any accusation of Farnese being a witch would stain his family name.

If that's what he's referring to, then Federico Vandimion wasn't really defending Farnese at that time. He just downplayed the whole magic events (elves included). Farnese' display of magic was but one aspect of it, and not the predominant one. Ganishka didn't appear in the room to object to his treatment of Farnese' magic abilities.

Offline A.C

Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2007, 06:13:51 AM »
i voted for the Midland King too, though it's a hard one because Charlotte was pretty spoiled for the most of her life and the King only fucked it up near the end (or, you could say Griffith fucked him up and turned him bad near the end.)

Guts, Jill and Farnese suffered alot more, alot longer with their fathers. of course Gambino gets my sympathy because he was truly scared of the "curse" (his girlfriend did die and it frightened him) and he did lose his leg and eventually his life.

Zepec sucked as a father but Jill did seem capable of putting up with him and while Farnese's father was cold, he didn't do anything physical to his kids.

Offline Dirty Dog

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 129
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Avatar by CnC ^^
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2007, 07:04:22 AM »
i voted for the Midland King too, though it's a hard one because Charlotte was pretty spoiled for the most of her life and the King only fucked it up near the end (or, you could say Griffith fucked him up and turned him bad near the end.)

Guts, Jill and Farnese suffered alot more, alot longer with their fathers. of course Gambino gets my sympathy because he was truly scared of the "curse" (his girlfriend did die and it frightened him) and he did lose his leg and eventually his life.

Zepec sucked as a father but Jill did seem capable of putting up with him and while Farnese's father was cold, he didn't do anything physical to his kids.
If I could make a choice between any of the four, I think I'd pick father Vandimion. He may not have ever been there, but he also didn't do anything wrong beyond being impersonal towards his kids. I'm guessing that people will agree with me there, since he has 0 votes still.
I'm surprised that Zepec only has one vote, he was probably worse than Gambino (certain occasions aside).
Quote
Reject the world as it is. It must be superceded before it can be valued.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18433
  • Karma: 634
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2007, 05:08:04 PM »
(or, you could say Griffith fucked him up and turned him bad near the end.)

No, I don't think you can say that. The King was already bad, he just hadn't acted on it yet.

Offline A.C

Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2007, 05:45:48 PM »
The King was already bad, he just hadn't acted on it yet.

that may be so, but i don't think the King had ever planned on doing sexual advances at Charlotte until Griffith deflowered her, which resulted in the King becoming obsessed with his action because he's all like "did Griffith touch her here, or here..."
for some reason i get the feeling Griffith knew he would push the King over the edge so he could get furthered allied with the princess in the process.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18433
  • Karma: 634
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2007, 05:48:29 PM »
i don't think the King had ever planned on doing sexual advances at Charlotte until Griffith deflowered her

That's only a baseless assumption though. There's no way to know what he planned to do or had been doing, and it's pretty clear he had had that desire for a long long time.

which resulted in the King becoming obsessed with his action because he's all like "did Griffith touch her here, or here..."

That was because he was morbidly obsessed with her in the first place.

for some reason i get the feeling Griffith knew he would push the King over the edge and get furthered allied with the princess in the process.

Yeah I'm sure Griffith planned to anger the king and finish locked up in a jail and tortured for a year. :schierke: Griffith only realized what the king had been up to after he ended up in jail.

Offline Dirty Dog

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 129
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Avatar by CnC ^^
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2007, 08:01:36 PM »
that may be so, but i don't think the King had ever planned on doing sexual advances at Charlotte until Griffith deflowered her,
he probably wouldn't have done it, I agree there.

which resulted in the King becoming obsessed with his action because he's all like "did Griffith touch her here, or here..."
What Aaz said. If he wasn't obsessed with her to begin with, he wouldn't have been obsessed then, just really pissed off.

for some reason i get the feeling Griffith knew he would push the King over the edge so he could get furthered allied with the princess in the process.
Where do you get that?

I think Griffith was depressed that Guts left him, and thought that having sex with Charlotte would make him feel better or whatever.
Quote
Reject the world as it is. It must be superceded before it can be valued.

Offline Trashcan

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 240
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • "It is pure Potential"
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2007, 11:39:05 PM »
Perhaps because I consider hypocrisy to be such a negative trait, I chose Zepec over the rest.

As CnC pointed out, Gambino never considered himself to be Guts' father. His few acts of kindness toward Guts were probably little more than salving a guilty conscience. He didn't act like a father toward Guts; he was a coach at best, and a slaver at worst. But he was honest about his dislike.

The King had sacrificed untold thousands of lives in a war that might have been diverted by having his daughter marry one of the Tudor emperor's three sons. His attatchment to her mother's visage became twisted over the years into lust for his own child. But in the private moments after sending out the Black Dogs to bring back Griffith's head, he admitted-if only to himself-that he had wronged her. Of course, he still tried to blame everything on Griffith;perhaps because he'd gone insane? A selfish beast of a man, he aknowledges his evil, but finds others at fault for it. Worse than Gambino, certainly.

I cannot say very much about Federico Vandimion, as I have not read all of the episodes he has appeared in. Shame on me. From what I have read, he is a power-hungry overreacher. Fully aware of his own inability to be everything to everyone, he has used those of his children society would most willingly accept as men of power to take positions beneficial not merely to themselves, but more importantly, to him. A woman, even a noblewoman, is little more than drudge and a whore to a majority of the men in Berserk. A bastard child, even one of ability and intellect, is a source of fodder for the rumor mills which grind at the reputations of the wealthy and famous. While never aknowledging her existence, nor admitting him into his family as a son, Federico did not arrange for Farnese and Serpico to meet with some untimely accident and brush their deaths under the proverbial rug. As cold as he is, as cold as every one says he is, this would have been easy. He makes claim to being a father, but I do not recall that he ever claimed to be a great, or even a good father. He is cowardly and grasping, but he is no hypocrite-at least in this account.

Finally, there is Zepec. He whines about his lot in life while in a perpetual drunken stupor. He hurls abuse both verbal and physical against the wife and daughter he claims to have risked so much for, yet is unwilling to the point of violence to go find his daughter when she runs away. Yet, amidst all of his ill-mannered behavior, he maintains that he is a good father and husband. This degree of hypocrisy borders on that of politicians or petroleum magnates. It makes my blood boil to imagine such obvious liars. Thus, Zepec got my vote. To me, it isn't just what you do, it's what you're willing to face up to within yourself.
It's always the same. Now if you had the two eyes on the same side of the nose, for instance -- or the mouth at the top -- that would be some help.'

`It wouldn't look nice,' Alice objected. But Humpty Dumpty only shut his eyes, and said `Wait till you've tried.'

Offline Locus of Agony

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 101
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • The location of agony? The human soul.
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2007, 01:59:02 PM »

When did he try to defend Farnese? I don't remember reading that. Could you tell me more about it?

Foss

As CNC and Aaz pointed out, it was after Guts saved (or at least accidentaly defended) the nobles at Magnifico's party from the Tiger creatures Ganishka sent at them, they are all suspicious of Farnese's ability to defend herself with the silver candlestick. Farnese's father comes up with a BS story about it being a illusonary ploy on the part of the Kushans, implying no actual magic was at work, and that his daughter was not a witch.

But as I said, it think it had more to do with his own social position than anything he felt for Farnese.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 02:12:59 PM by Locus of Agony »
For every single day you lived, for every fragment of your broken dream, the night is so evanescing.
Don't let anyone walk over your dreams, don't let them fall on the path.
If they do, I will be one meter behind you, I'll pick up and clean them for you.

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15906
  • Karma: 478
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2007, 02:16:01 PM »
...Farnese's father comes up with a BS story about it being a illusonary ploy on the part of the Kushans, implying no actual magic was at work, and that his daughter was not a witch.

But as I said, it think it had more to do with his own social position than anything he felt for Farnese.
So, really, he's not defending his daughter at all. Let's be honest here. His speech really only saved his own skin. Farnese would have walked away clean regardless of what was said at the ball. I don't see how this has anything to do with his ability as a father.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Locus of Agony

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 101
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • The location of agony? The human soul.
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2007, 04:33:17 PM »
I wasn't so sure she would have walked away clean, I assumed they'd accuse her (or her friends) of witchcraft if he hadn't said anything.

Even so, he was only doing it for himself, yes, he still sucks as a father.
For every single day you lived, for every fragment of your broken dream, the night is so evanescing.
Don't let anyone walk over your dreams, don't let them fall on the path.
If they do, I will be one meter behind you, I'll pick up and clean them for you.

Offline bastard_swordsman

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Ka-Schnoz!
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2007, 04:57:15 PM »
I almost wish he hadn't intervined... it would've been fun to watch Guts butcher his way out of a room full of nobles  :guts:

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18433
  • Karma: 634
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2007, 05:27:12 PM »
As CNC and Aaz pointed out [...] they are all suspicious of Farnese's ability to defend herself with the silver candlestick. Farnese's father comes up with a BS story about it being a illusonary ploy on the part of the Kushans, implying no actual magic was at work, and that his daughter was not a witch.

I think you missed the point about Farnese' part being minor in the whole thing though. And they weren't talking about her wielding a candlestick but using Schierke's Serpents of Thorns.

I wasn't so sure she would have walked away clean, I assumed they'd accuse her (or her friends) of witchcraft if he hadn't said anything.

Oh my, the "devilish child" of the Vandimion, former leader of the Holy Iron Chain Knights and supposed dead would be accused of witchcraft by nobles on the way to their death! I'm sure that'd have been a big deal for her personally.

I almost wish he hadn't intervined... it would've been fun to watch Guts butcher his way out of a room full of nobles  :guts:

That wasn't going to happen anyway. At most he'd have killed a few guards but not the nobles themselves.

Offline Locus of Agony

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 101
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • The location of agony? The human soul.
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2007, 06:12:20 PM »
Good lord! Forgot to mention the serpent of thorns. My mistake.
For every single day you lived, for every fragment of your broken dream, the night is so evanescing.
Don't let anyone walk over your dreams, don't let them fall on the path.
If they do, I will be one meter behind you, I'll pick up and clean them for you.

Offline bastard_swordsman

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Ka-Schnoz!
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2007, 10:39:36 PM »
That wasn't going to happen anyway. At most he'd have killed a few guards but not the nobles themselves.
Hey, I may not know everything, but I'm not that dumb. Of course he wouldn't murder the nobles... but it doesn't hurt to have an imagination. The gits have it coming.

Offline space_elevator

Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2007, 10:36:34 AM »
Foss

     I could go so far as argue his role as a class war stereotype could be redeemed by his relationship with his daughter.  You can think of his Golden Age antagonism as a long term defense of his child's future if you so choose.  He's really a fairly major minor character, sort of in a Shakespearean way.

    Thinking about Foss's daughter Elise, and how she might appear if presented in the current Griffith storyline, it occurred to me Ganishka arguably blows all human bad Dads out of the water, if you are willing to consider Daka dependent children.


Offline bastard_swordsman

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Ka-Schnoz!
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2007, 02:45:47 PM »
I don't think Ganishka qualifies as the father of the Daka - unless he individualy sired each of the children, prior to their demonic birth. If anything, they're more akin to slaves. Tough slaves, but slaves none the less.