Poll

Choose one you think is the most horrible father.

Federico Vandimion
3 (2.6%)
Zepec
13 (11.4%)
Midland king
57 (50%)
Gambino
41 (36%)

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Author Topic: Who is the worst father in Berserk?  (Read 28549 times)

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Offline Griffith

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2007, 07:29:53 PM »
After some consideration, I voted for Gambino. The King of Midland was obviously a very sick man, but he wasn't a habitually bad father like Gambino or Zepec. Zepec regularly hit his wife and daughter, and facilitated her vulnerability to molestation at the hands of his drunken friends; he's a negligent and abusive father. And Gambino... what can you say? He's number one; mental and physical abuse, prostituting his son to a child raper, and, of course, attempted murder of said child, yikes...


Offline Blues

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2007, 09:44:44 PM »
After some consideration, I voted for Gambino. The King of Midland was obviously a very sick man, but he wasn't a habitually bad father like Gambino or Zepec. Zepec regularly hit his wife and daughter, and facilitated her vulnerability to molestation at the hands of his drunken friends; he's a negligent and abusive father. And Gambino... what can you say? He's number one; mental and physical abuse, prostituting his son to a child raper, and, of course, attempted murder of said child, yikes...

Well to be fair, I don't think Gambino was an intentionally "bad" man. Shizu's (sp) death is what triggered him to view Guts as more of a leech/curse than an adopted son. Guts is the one who developed the strong emotional attachment to Gambino, not vice versa. Still, no excuse for him to go so Batshit.

Midland's King isn't a "good" father, but mind you he still held enough concern not to just break down that door during Charlotte's "DON'T TOUCH ME!" stage and rape her. He was hurt by her "DO NOT WANT" mindset, and still valued his daughter, if anything, he's the polar opposite of Gambino, and cares TOO much about his daughter, in every sense of the word.

If I had to pick, Zepec is the worst father. Beating the wife and daughter, letting her get molested, generally treating her like shit, he really didn't seem to have any remote concern of her to me (might be forgetting something, been awhile). Well, sounds like Gambino, but he didn't just do at whim, he did it because he held a "grudge" against someone who wasn't even his real son. At least Gambino  had that temporary "Here, let me show you how to swing a sword boy!" and even saved his life once, if not "twice" by simply passing by (yes, Shizu etc)
So yes, my vote is with Zepec.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 09:48:37 PM by Manji »

Offline Majin Femto

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2007, 12:39:59 AM »
I think i'd have to go with the king simply because he paid more attention tothe war than his own daughter... and he locked up he man she loved. 

In my opinion Gambino was the best father out of the choices because he trained Guts for the life of a mercenary.  Even tho he tried to knock his head off, and not to mention the midnight rape incident... Guts had to learn the lessons the hard way.  I mean... look at what was in store for him.
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Offline Blues

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2007, 01:57:21 AM »
I think i'd have to go with the king simply because he paid more attention tothe war than his own daughter... and he locked up he man she loved. 
Well he would have been a sorry King if he ignored the war at hand. I don't think Charlotte ever mentions her father not paying attention to her, and every time the King was within the castle and not out on the battlefield his daughter was usually close by. I haven't read the old volumes in quite some time, but I do remember Charlotte liking her father up until the after events of Griffith's capture/torture and Daddy's hasty actions. In fact, the King's entire "revenge" On Griffith has nothing to do with Griffith himself, example not liking the white hawk for being himself, it's only when Griffith slept with Charlotte and "Took" her from him that he became obsessed with punishing Griffith.

Offline Locus of Agony

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2007, 06:03:06 PM »
But that doesn't make the King of Midland any better. I agree he had to watch over his country, and Charlotte may have gotten lost in the shuffle, but that dosen't excuse his actions.

He didn't "care about his daughter too much" he was obsessed with her sexually, and wanted to keep her to himself. When Griffith "touched her" he became jealous and hateful, not just because Griffith had deflowered her, but beacuse secretly, he had desired that very thing for himself.

And it wasn't that he didn't try to rape her, after she (forcefully) resisted several times, he gave up. He cared about himself not her.

And just because Gambino never really developed a bond with Guts, is no reason to treat him like shit and sell him out to a pedophile.

Although I do agree with you view on the ever disgusting Zepec.
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Offline Blues

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2007, 08:21:45 PM »
But that doesn't make the King of Midland any better. I agree he had to watch over his country, and Charlotte may have gotten lost in the shuffle, but that dosen't excuse his actions.

He didn't "care about his daughter too much" he was obsessed with her sexually, and wanted to keep her to himself. When Griffith "touched her" he became jealous and hateful, not just because Griffith had deflowered her, but beacuse secretly, he had desired that very thing for himself.
I agree with you, again I wasn't excusing the King, but I don't think he -only- had sexual intentions. I think his sexual desires for his daughter is something that matured after his sour relationship with the Queen, I doubt he was sexually obsessed with Charlotte his whole life, so much as when she started maturing and him taking notice. Again, in my opinion, he gave in to a hidden desire about his daughter, Charlotte was clueless when he finally did act (again, under pressure because of what Griffith had done), not a "Wow, now I know why you spanked my ass so much!" attitude. Again, I just think its something the King kept buried deep down and finally gave into, not his defining purpose in his daughter.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2007, 09:17:57 PM »
I think his sexual desires for his daughter is something that matured after his sour relationship with the Queen

No, more likely he didn't touch his second wife because he was obsessed with Charlotte to begin with. The "sour" relationship is just that he wasn't sexually interested in her (despite the fact she was an attractive woman), and there's a simple reason for that: his sick desire. I think you've got it backwards.

I doubt he was sexually obsessed with Charlotte his whole life

There's no reason to think he hadn't been obsessed with her for a long time. The most credit we can give him is that perhaps he became infatuated with Charlotte because she resembles her mother (the first queen), whom he apparently truly loved.

Again, I just think its something the King kept buried deep down and finally gave into, not his defining purpose in his daughter.

Well he purposedly isolated her from men her age and didn't have any plans for her to marry while she was already in age to (and while that would have been a good move for the kingdom). It's pretty clear he didn't intend to "give" her to another man than himself, even though he hadn't touched her before as far as we know.

Offline Ben

Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2007, 10:07:01 PM »
I would like to vote for the trolls as the worst father(s) in Berserk.  I mean, they kidnap your mother, rape her in some dank cave that doesn't even exist in the physical world, and then just leave you to your own devices, after you've burst through your mother's stomach.  Frankly, I would argue that much of the problem with troll society is the fact that they were forced to grow up in single parent households.

Offline Blues

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2007, 12:48:08 AM »
Aazealh,
My mistake for forgetting her possible resemblance to the first Queen, it's been quite a long time. Again, that was my point, "as far as we know" The king hadn't let on to his obsession with his daughter, at least directly to her, till the culmination of events surrounding her and Griffith. Maybe he was building up to that (much in the same manner Griffith became hasty in his plans for her as well, again its obvious The King was trying his best to keep possible suitors away) but I'm saying its more likely that when she -started- maturing, IE into the image of the late Queen, the King started developing these feelings.

 He obviously had to be obsessed with her "A long time", I wasn't denying that at all. However, I was saying I don't think there's anything concrete to show this is -all- he had in his daughter since the day she was born, versus something that matured and grew as -she- did. Again, just my thoughts.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 01:05:01 AM by Manji »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2007, 06:25:40 PM »
My mistake for forgetting her possible resemblance to the first Queen

Well, the resemblance is more than a possibility, it's a fact. :void:

I'm saying its more likely that when she -started- maturing, IE into the image of the late Queen, the King started developing these feelings.

I don't really disagree with your post's overall point, but since we don't know anything about the past of these characters I don't think we can say when was the likelier time for the king to start having those feelings toward Charlotte. There's just no way to know.

Offline Walter

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2007, 06:35:47 PM »
He obviously had to be obsessed with her "A long time", I wasn't denying that at all. However, I was saying I don't think there's anything concrete to show this is -all- he had in his daughter since the day she was born, versus something that matured and grew as -she- did. Again, just my thoughts.
He didn't even know he was obcessed or had feelings for her until Griffith pointed out the connections. It's not like he was consciously lusting after her prior to Grifith's intervention.
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Offline Blues

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2007, 07:17:46 PM »
Well, the resemblance is more than a possibility, it's a fact. :void:
Tricky you! I originally did not have "possible", I had it as a fact, but then I read over your post again and it seemed more of a "Could be" than factual, so I re-edited my post.
He didn't even know he was obcessed or had feelings for her until Griffith pointed out the connections. It's not like he was consciously lusting after her prior to Grifith's intervention.
Well what you and Aazealh have on that somewhat contrast each other, I was pretty sure he seemed at least a little "obsessive" of her prior to Griffith's actions, I don't remember anything (again, long time) where the King went "...Holy shit he's right! He looks like my daughter...OH HELL YES!" Not doubting you, I just don't remember that part myself.

Offline mike.william

Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2007, 06:18:26 AM »
I would like to vote for the trolls as the worst father(s) in Berserk.  I mean, they kidnap your mother, rape her in some dank cave that doesn't even exist in the physical world, and then just leave you to your own devices, after you've burst through your mother's stomach.  Frankly, I would argue that much of the problem with troll society is the fact that they were forced to grow up in single parent households.

This post wins. 

I vote for the trolls.  Any of them.

Offline Walter

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2007, 07:54:27 PM »
I don't remember anything (again, long time) where the King went "...Holy shit he's right! He looks like my daughter...OH HELL YES!" Not doubting you, I just don't remember that part myself.
How about the part where he went from logical,boring King to apeshit insane, ghostly white madman in a matter of one volume, DIRECTLY AFTER Griffith spelled out the King's obcession?

That's how I've always read it anyway...
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Offline Blues

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2007, 07:58:16 PM »
How about the part where he went from logical,boring King to apeshit insane, ghostly white madman in a matter of one volume, DIRECTLY AFTER Griffith spelled out the King's obcession?

That's how I've always read it anyway...

Well the way I remember reading it (I'll probably read over it now sometime this week to see for myself) was that Griffith had already discovered how batshit(or apeshit) the King really was deep down, and managed to be the only one to see through him and thus pick/hack away at the King's logical train of thought and unveil either something he had been planning already or something he didn't want to "admit to" for quite some time, in other words I don't think Griffith installed it in him versus upsetting him enough to let it loose.

Offline Walter

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2007, 08:06:23 PM »
Well the way I remember reading it (I'll probably read over it now sometime this week to see for myself) was that Griffith had already discovered how batshit(or apeshit) the King really was deep down, and managed to be the only one to see through him and thus pick/hack away at the King's logical train of thought and unveil either something he had been planning already or something he didn't want to "admit to" for quite some time, in other words I don't think Griffith installed it in him versus upsetting him enough to let it loose.
I don't see how we're in disagreement, and that's not what i was saying anyway. Like I said, Griffith just spelled it out for the King. The obsession was a subconscious thing for him prior to that moment.
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Offline Blues

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #66 on: March 13, 2007, 08:58:38 PM »
My misunderstanding, I read it as you suggesting Griffith installed it in him versus it being present, so we're clear. :SK:

Offline Circe

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2007, 10:16:53 PM »
*interrupts the convo* >.> I voted for Gambino. Sure Gambino is one of the main fuels for Guts and probably still is no matter what. But the man out of anger had his own "adoptive" son raped. Then tried to kill him. Of course though the King of Midland is a sorry *ss father too, don't get me wrong. Yes he went to rape her ect though I actually have a theory that it was meant to have Charlotte and Casca to be a foil of one another. Anyways it was all destiny to fuel them later on. Also the potential rape of Charlotte by her father would make her want to run in Griffith's arms once more, and with Gashinki (sp?) trying to make her into a breeding mare that just made her loose hope. And who comes bringing his carcas back on the seen: Griffith. So to me it makes her just want to run to her love and be comforted.

Oh and just one more thing to add. I have to agree with some of you that Charlotte's father wasn't originally obsessed with her. To me it more or less seemed that he was obsessed with her mother. Basically when he figured out that Griffith and her had "made love" he started thinking about her in bed with him. So now the thought of s-e-x is put in. Of course when Griffith goes and says you just didn't want anyone else to pluck her flower other then you (or something along that) he snaps. Which either means two things 1) he started doubting his intentions because he could have actually not married her off after all fathers want their lil girls to be small forever 2) Or he was actually thinking of it like Griffith said. So now s-e-x and the doubts are stirring, and the one thing that I noticed most was when he bent over her and I think he said this then that she looked more like her mother. *shrugs* it was like he had just noticed. So to me its not that he was always obessed but he either way he was a sick and twisted man who deserved to burn =D.

Offline Okin

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #68 on: May 24, 2007, 06:12:15 PM »
Hi, I'm new here, though I've been lurking through the forums for some time now.

I know what everyones going to say, but I think Gambino was the worst father, though the king of midland is a close tie. The king of Midland tried to rape his daughter himself. Not just violating her but doing it himself! Then again he loved his daughter (in a platonic way) and he did give her everything material she could ever want. Guts gets to fight for his life, get his ass kicked, no appreciation for his hard-work, and Gambino tries to kill him. All this also hurt Guts mentally too the point that he can barely have close relationships with anyone. Note his fear of people touching him (I think this is due to how Gambino and Guts mother(?) died shortly after he held their hands), and that time he choked Casca during their intimate moment. Yes, Charlotte was mentally scarred, but I don't think she's going to be getting in bed with rich, aristocratic-looking men often in a normal relationship. If thats not traumatic already than I think a few other things are wrong.

Vandimion completely neglected his daughter, and treated her as a nuisance but neglect is a secondary issue when confronted with full blown rape and homicide. Though he shares many of the same faults as the king of Midland he still didn't touch her anywhere.

And Zepec, he was Jill's father, yes? Well he was a typical father of the middle ages I imagine if not a little worse. Everyone else alive in that era who is a woman is expected to deal with that at some point. He's not at all good in my opinion, but there are worse. He hasn't raped/killed anything she cares about yet.

I consider these people bad fathers not based on there morals alone. The sum of actions and intentions is what is important. Even if Gambino only reacted as he did due to the loss of his leg, and the loss of his love (I guess he loved her), he's still a bad father even if its not his fault. Even if the circumstances justify what  happened its still not good for a father to do what he did.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #69 on: May 24, 2007, 07:25:17 PM »
Note his fear of people touching him (I think this is due to how Gambino and Guts mother(?) died shortly after he held their hands)

No, that's due to being raped by Donovan. And he mostly got over these problems since then anyway, thanks to Casca.

Offline bastard_swordsman

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #70 on: May 29, 2007, 12:15:37 PM »
*duh* I never caught on that his dislike of being touched was over the Donovan thing - I thought it was more of an "I hate everyone" thing.

Offline Okin

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2007, 10:17:42 PM »
Quote
No, that's due to being raped by Donovan. And he mostly got over these problems since then anyway, thanks to Casca.

K, I can admit that due to the flashback during sex with Casca, but Guts still has nightmares of guilt about Gambino's neglect and hate. Remember the dog analogy, Guts was worse than a dog too Gambino.

"Papa, why don't you love me, like you love moma?" sort of moment....Okay not at all but that's a funny context for this quote. :troll:

I always need to end in humor otherwise I feel sad.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #72 on: May 30, 2007, 12:33:57 PM »
Guts still has nightmares of guilt about Gambino's neglect and hate.

Does he? When was the last time he had one?

Offline Okin

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2007, 03:56:39 PM »
...Yea...I guess your right.

Well I'm pretty much dead wrong then I guess.
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Offline Asuka's Lover

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Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #74 on: June 14, 2007, 07:58:52 AM »
Farnese's father is probably pretty bad, even if i havent read past 17 thus far, i would vote for the father of serpico and farnese; however, there are worse.

Zepec: He is not smart enough to be the worst or best father, he is just a father of the era.


Midland King: He is who i voted for as worst father. He wants to rape his daughter. THis point of view is not debatable. If he was a good dad, he wouldve been like  "Griffith, you used my daughter to sheath ur sword, good man, welcome to the family," but no. The king got angry at griffith, which is understandable for a father, but dude, he killed his daughters loved one, and tryed to rape his daughter, that is pretty bad.

Gambino: he is an obvious cast for a vote, but i agree with the comment below, he taught Guts the SWORD. Without
Gambino taking in guts, like Batman with Robin, his adoption created berserk. Did he F*** up as a dad. Definitely, he let his own kid get raped by a big bald man named Donovan. Thank god the series only showed it as a giant red unstoppable beast. But Gambino went mad afterhe lost Shizu, just like every other character after being defeated.



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