Poll

Choose one you think is the most horrible father.

Federico Vandimion
3 (2.6%)
Zepec
13 (11.4%)
Midland king
57 (50%)
Gambino
41 (36%)

Total Members Voted: 109

Author Topic: Who is the worst father in Berserk?  (Read 28576 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline puella

  • Gourmet Elf
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2359
  • Karma: 681
  • Gender: Female
  • Popopopopopopopo!
Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« on: February 16, 2007, 05:56:33 PM »
We've seen several "bad" fathers in Berserk. Miura made a short comment about his father in an interview. He seemed to respect his father a lot to me. But in Berserk, there aren't many good fathers. I even wonder who can be considered a "good" father in the manga. Godot? Yeah, he's the only one, maybe? (I'm including foster-fathers). So I wanted to make a poll about that. The candidates are:

1. Federico Vandimion:
He's a bad father to both Farnese and Serpico. He's as cold as an ice with his children. Thinking about his reaction to Farnese, when she came to him to ask for a boat, it gives me a chill. *shudders*

2. Zepec:
Jill's father. He's a typical loser who beats his daughter and wife. The most horrible thing though is that he even doesn't notice/care that Jill is in danger of being raped by his scoundrel-friends. But he did shoot the Black Swordman, Guts!! And I should admit I could sympathise with him when he complained about his life. Anyway, he's a bad father to Jill.

3. Midland King:
I'm voting for him. He's a damn king but I think the princess, Charlotte has the worst father. He's had this dirty desire for his own daughter all these years. Even if he did great things for the people of Midland, he's a horrible father.

4. Gambino:
He's Guts' adoptive father. Though he wasn't a good father to the young Guts, the important thing is that Guts wanted to follow him and love him. And Gambino was the one who taught Guts how to use a sword and trained him. I personally think he could have been a good father if Sis hadn't died. But he let Donovan rape Guts  and that hurt the poor kid so deeply. Ugh, why did you do that, Gambino?

Let's vote!

Offline Rhombaad

  • Old Fart in Training
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4192
  • Karma: 43
  • Gender: Male
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2007, 06:07:55 PM »
Gotta go for the king of Midland on this one.  However, if I'd been able to choose multiple fathers, I'd have picked Gambino, as well.  He sold his own son to Donovan as if Guts was a piece of property to be given out to anyone who wanted to use him.  That's pretty sick.  But yeah, lusting after your own daughter, even if she reminds you of your dead wife, that's pretty awful, too.  Bleh.  Maybe Guts will end up being a good father if the whole Griffith/Moonlight Child theory works out well in the end (based on the speculation that they're the same being). :???:

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18403
  • Karma: 624
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2007, 06:09:16 PM »
Voted for the King as well, though all the fathers present are clearly terrible.

Maybe Guts will end up being a good father if the whole Griffith/Moonlight Child theory works out well in the end

I'm sure he would! :serpico:

Offline CnC

  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 5076
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Male
  • Ad Oculos
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2007, 06:16:06 PM »
Would Julius be in that list?

But anyway, thats quite a hard choice to make as to who is the worst.  They're all terrible.

I'm going with Gambino.  Of all those people, he's the only one who didn't consider himself a father.  That rejection (his role as a father) has had more repercussions in the manga's story and thus outwieghs the others (to me).
I'm sick of following my dreams.  I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later...
- R.I.P Mitch Hedberg
CnColors!

Offline Rhombaad

  • Old Fart in Training
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4192
  • Karma: 43
  • Gender: Male
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2007, 06:21:56 PM »
Would Julius be in that list?

That's a good nomination.  He was pretty harsh on Adonis.  The fact that his relationship with Adonis parallels Guts' and Gambino's relationship makes him a good candidate, too, I think.

Offline vlad

Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2007, 06:24:03 PM »
I went with the King, simply because I found him the most disgusting. In terms of f-ing up their children, I think Gambino and Federico Vandimion are almost a tie. It would seem that Jill wound up reasonably unhurt despite everything.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18403
  • Karma: 624
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2007, 06:34:43 PM »
That's a good nomination.  He was pretty harsh on Adonis.

Can't really compare to the others though. Harshness isn't the same as rape. Also guys, it's Julius. I didn't think people were still confused on this nowadays.

Offline Serpico

  • Google-Intellectual
  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 312
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Farnese is the bomb diggity
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2007, 07:01:15 PM »
Roshinu's father wasn't so great either.

This is a tough choice. My first thought is Zepec, but then Gambino selling Guts was even worse than Zepec, but then again trying to rape your child yourself as the king did is probably even worse than that, so I'll have to agree with you Puella.

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15864
  • Karma: 463
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2007, 07:56:02 PM »
Midland King no contest. I wish it were a real contest though, it's a good subject.

My FAVORITE father-figure would  have to be Gambino though.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Rhombaad

  • Old Fart in Training
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4192
  • Karma: 43
  • Gender: Male
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2007, 08:17:33 PM »
Can't really compare to the others though. Harshness isn't the same as rape.

That's true.

My FAVORITE father-figure would have to be Gambino though.

Why's that?  Just curious. :serpico:

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15864
  • Karma: 463
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2007, 08:50:35 PM »
Why's that?  Just curious. :serpico:
I just like his character and personality, despite his glaring flaws as a father-figure. He's my kinda guy, ouside the whole selling his virtual son to a child rapist thing.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Dirty Dog

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 129
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Avatar by CnC ^^
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2007, 09:43:48 PM »
I'm going with Guts (yes, Guts).
Why?

Vandimion came through for Farnese when it really mattered (when she was being accused of witchcraft), with leading strength that even Guts and his own wife commented on.


Zepec may be abusive, but he definitely cares about his daughter. He's flawed, but we all are.


The king I can sympathise with, to an extent. He's a lonely old man, and thanks to Griffith, a widower. Charlotte is very beautiful, and may even remind him of the Queen when she was young. Sure, he cares for her for the wrong reason, but he definitely cares for her... almost pathetically.


Gambino did two fucked up things to young Guts -- sold him and tried to kill him in his sleep. However, Gambino did show signs of caring for Guts, teaching him to fight, saving his life in battle, and even giving him medicine for his nose.


Guts, however, has hated his and Casca's child since it was born, simply because it has an evil nature (we can't be sure that it's actually evil, it did warn Guts about Casca afterall). Whenever the child shows up, he gets pissed off at it. It even haunts his dreams, he hates it that much. (I know it was a nightmare induced by an incubus, but it still counts.) I think that takes the cake.
Quote
Reject the world as it is. It must be superceded before it can be valued.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18403
  • Karma: 624
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2007, 09:51:37 PM »
I'm going with Guts (yes, Guts).

He's not in the poll for a reason.

Vandimion came through for Farnese when it really mattered (when she was being accused of witchcraft)

When it mattered was when she was a kid. Because of him and the world he lived in she went through over 10 years of mental instability. It's all his fault, him and his wife. He came through for her about the witchcraft thing? Are you serious? He came through for his own name. For his honor. And what to say about his conduct with Serpico and his mother... A great father indeed.

Zepec may be abusive, but he definitely cares about his daughter.

Didn't care much to help her when his friend tried to force her door in order to rape her.

The king I can sympathise with, to an extent. He's a lonely old man, and thanks to Griffith, a widower.

He never touched his second wife. That's why she cheated on him with Julius in the first place. And as a king he could have any maid/pretty young lady around. Don't try to justify the unjustifiable please.

Guts, however, has hated his and Casca's child since it was born, simply because it has an evil nature (we can't be sure that it's actually evil, it did warn Guts about Casca afterall). Whenever the child shows up, he gets pissed off at it.

You obviously don't understand Guts' relationship with his son. Seriously, that's a post you would have been better off not making.


Such hatred.

Offline Dirty Dog

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 129
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Avatar by CnC ^^
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2007, 10:55:04 PM »
He's not in the poll for a reason.
I know, but I can't really decide out of the rest of them.

When it mattered was when she was a kid. Because of him and the world he lived in she went through over 10 years of mental instability.
He wasn't there. While it is true that he is to blame for it, he has his own reasons for not being there for her. It's a little extreme, but the children of men with as much power as he has always end up a little messed up from being neglected.


It's all his fault, him and his wife. He came through for her about the witchcraft thing? Are you serious? He came through for his own name. For his honor. And what to say about his conduct with Serpico and his mother... A great father indeed.
He came through for the Vandimion name, but I don't think that was the only reason. I think he did it to protect his daughter from being considered a heretic more than to protect the honor of the family. I'm not really going to argue this with you though, because I've really got no way to prove it. Just what I felt when I was reading it.


Didn't care much to help her when his friend tried to force her door in order to rape her.
Can't argue that, but then again, Gambino actually sold Guts.. a bit worse, I'd say.


He never touched his second wife. That's why she cheated on him with Julius in the first place. And as a king he could have any maid/pretty young lady around. Don't try to justify the unjustifiable please.
Damn, I forgot that she was his second wife. Sorry. And I'm not gonna argue that further either, my argument would be asinine even for me.


You obviously don't understand Guts' relationship with his son.
He wanted to kill it when it was first born, he didn't want it to get near him in Volume 1, though by ~Volume 20 he didn't seem to have much feeling for it either way. (He noticed it in the Beherit Apostle in Volume 21 but I couldn't really tell his feelings there)
Anyway, I'll grant that he doesn't hate it anymore, but he'd never have loved it like he would've if it had been born normal.

Seriously, that's a post you would have been better off not making.
I have alot of them.
Quote
Reject the world as it is. It must be superceded before it can be valued.

Offline bastard_swordsman

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Ka-Schnoz!
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2007, 12:49:28 AM »
The king I can sympathise with, to an extent. He's a lonely old man, and thanks to Griffith, a widower. Charlotte is very beautiful, and may even remind him of the Queen when she was young. Sure, he cares for her for the wrong reason, but he definitely cares for her... almost pathetically.
I'd love to see that defense in a court of law  :guts:

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15864
  • Karma: 463
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2007, 01:34:12 AM »
Wow, Dirty Dog is an idiot. You managed to get nearly every single point WRONG. Amazing! You're only a success in failure.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Dirty Dog

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 129
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Avatar by CnC ^^
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2007, 01:47:19 AM »
Wow, Dirty Dog is an idiot. You managed to get nearly every single point WRONG. Amazing! You're only a success in failure.
If that's true, the converse must also be true.
I am never a failure in success.
Sweet! :troll:

though the idiot comment was a bit unneeded.


I'd love to see that defense in a court of law  :guts:
I wouldn't, seeing as how it is purely my personal opinion, and opinions should never be used in the court of law.
Quote
Reject the world as it is. It must be superceded before it can be valued.

Offline C

Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2007, 02:06:13 AM »
I would like to make a special nomination, of Guts' biological father! That useless bum....   :troll:

 - C

ps. Maybe I put to much thought into that one, he just didn't stick around, oh well.  :puck:

Offline Proj2501

Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2007, 04:24:32 AM »
Midland King got my vote. Gambino is a severely close second.

And we all know Zodd is Guts' father. Why isn't he on the list :Is beaten:

Offline space_elevator

Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2007, 07:00:27 AM »
I voted for the king.  To my way of thinking Charlotte turned out worse than Guts, Farnese, Serpico, Jill or even Magnifico.  Plus he was essentially the "father" of Midland, and he didn't exactly take home the gold with that either.

But I've got to echo the consensus on Guts- he is, more importantly than perhaps anything else, a "Dad".  The whole goddamned story beats you over the head with this information.  It's the very reason all these counterexamples show up in the story.

Pick any type of mistreatment in the story, Guts has been on the receiving end of that.  Pick any type of human relationship in the manga that involves competition or power and Guts had a highlighted parallel example of how to not be an asshat in that situation.  Rent The Count of Monte Cristo, or read it even.  Guts is Berserk's #1 Dad.  His only real competition is an apostle who ate his wife and locked his daughter in her room for what, seven years?

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18403
  • Karma: 624
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2007, 08:20:08 AM »
He wasn't there. While it is true that he is to blame for it, he has his own reasons for not being there for her. It's a little extreme, but the children of men with as much power as he has always end up a little messed up from being neglected.

That's no excuse really. And it's not like he had no choice but to be away, or that he was a great dad when he was there. He was an awful father to her.

He wanted to kill it when it was first born, he didn't want it to get near him in Volume 1, though by ~Volume 20 he didn't seem to have much feeling for it either way.

Well let's look at this in detail then. Guts survives the Eclipse, having watched the rape of Casca. He fights spectres and SK explains him what a hell his life is going to become. Then they go to Casca. Their son is born, and he's horribly deformed. SK tells him he was corrupted during the rape and is now evil. He tells Guts that he should kill it now, otherwise it'll bring up a big disaster (it did). And the kid climbs Casca's breast, trying to suckle on her brand. At that moment, what should have he done? He was emotionally troubled, I mean how could anyone hold it against him in the context?

Not to mention the fact that if a kid like that was born anywhere in the world right now, people would quickly put it out of its misery. In the end, Guts didn't kill it, and SK told him that the child would come to haunt his parents. And after that, what did the kid do? It haunted him. And not because Guts hated him or anything like that. We don't know what happened between the end of the flashback and volume 1, but we can assume it wasn't the first time then that the kid appeared to him. It showed up when Guts was incapacitated, and even though Guts didn't want to it was coming to him. To do what, hug him? Suckle on his brand? We'll never know, but he was forcing himself on Guts and it's Puck that saved the day. Later on he showed up in a dream through an incubus, and again he threatened and even scared Guts. In volume 15, he appeared along with burning kids to haunt Guts once more, seriously troubling him. The bottom line is that he was never benevolent to his father, unlike with Casca (and Guts didn't know that).

he'd never have loved it like he would've if it had been born normal.

Is that supposed to be surprising? Would it be any different for you?

Plus he was essentially the "father" of Midland, and he didn't exactly take home the gold with that either.

He wasn't a bad king. Not particularly good, but not bad either.

Guts is Berserk's #1 Dad. His only real competition is an apostle who ate his wife and locked his daughter in her room for what, seven years?

Well, there's Godot too. Otherwise, I'd agree that Guts has the potential to become a great father.

Offline Dirty Dog

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 129
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Avatar by CnC ^^
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2007, 08:31:25 AM »
But I've got to echo the consensus on Guts- he is, more importantly than perhaps anything else, a "Dad".  The whole goddamned story beats you over the head with this information.  It's the very reason all these counterexamples show up in the story.

Okay, since everyone's beating me up about it, I retract the statement.
I know he's been a better father-type figure to others (Jill, Isidro, Schierke, the Moonlight Child, and even Farnese [aside from when he used them to escape from trouble, which has happened more than once...]), but I always thought he was pretty hateful towards his own child. Though it seems I missed something there, and I'll admit that I most likely did. When I made my statement earlier, I was thinking specifically of when it appeared to him in Volume 1 and he yelled at it to get away from him, and that probably wasn't an accurate judgement since he did the same to Puck immediately afterwards.

Quote from: Aazealh
The bottom line is that he was never benevolent to his father,
When my dad hits me, I hit him back (probably why we haven't gotten into a physical fight in a few years). I wouldn't expect anything else from any other son. Guts wasn't the most benevolent father to his son, his son isn't the most benevolent son to his father. Casca was caring and protected him, so he was caring and protected her. Makes total sense to me.

Quote from: Aazealh
Is that supposed to be surprising? Would it be any different for you?
I'm no prize myself, as you've surely noticed from my posts (if my damn forum name wasn't hint enough for you). I can't honestly say for sure, but I'd probably take care of the poor thing... It's kinda cute in the "I belong in a horror movie" way, anyway.
Quote
Reject the world as it is. It must be superceded before it can be valued.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18403
  • Karma: 624
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2007, 08:58:40 AM »
Guts wasn't the most benevolent father to his son, his son isn't the most benevolent son to his father. Casca was caring and protected him, so he was caring and protected her. Makes total sense to me.

Only problem here is that Guts aggressed the child only once and because he saw it as a monster (rightly so), and in the end he didn't harm it. Then after that the child haunted him regularly, possibly almost every night. He came to him with that specific purpose. That more than outweighs Guts' original reaction. Anyway, I don't think we really need to debate this, it's clear that Guts wasn't a great father to that child. But to compare him to those in this thread is ridiculous IMO.

I can't honestly say for sure, but I'd probably take care of the poor thing...

Well, you'll have to excuse me if I don't take your word for it.

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2007, 05:03:25 PM »
Just out of curiosity why isn't The Count and Casca's father in this poll?


Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18403
  • Karma: 624
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Who is the worst father in Berserk?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2007, 05:15:00 PM »
Just out of curiosity why isn't The Count and Casca's father in this poll?

If you put aside the fact he was an apostle, the Count was great to his daughter. He locked her up in her room, but that's not the end of the world, especially for a noble's daughter. He never harmed her and in the end, chose to die rather than sacrifice her. As for Casca's father, why should he even be named here? She came from a very poor village where she worked hard in the fields and often starved for days. When a noble proposed to take her under his wing as a maid, why would he have refused? I mean if the guy hadn't been a scoundrel she could have really become a maid and lived much better than the rest of her family. Better that than end up starved to death or raped and killed during a border raid.