Poll

Who do you secretly cheer on?

Ganishka
34 (47.9%)
Griffith
23 (32.4%)
Neither of them.
14 (19.7%)

Total Members Voted: 70

Author Topic: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?  (Read 14804 times)

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Offline puella

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Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« on: February 23, 2007, 06:53:56 PM »
The final battle of Ganishka vs Griffith is supposed to take place in Wyndham. We all know that Ganishka will be defeated by Griffith eventually. But Ganishka is too good as a character to disappear too soon or miserably. Yeah, he's very popular in Japan, Korea and on this board too of course. Japanese Berserk fans call Griffith and Ganishka "Guri and Gani" (such typically Japanese abbreviations :puck:) and want to see their last battle come to a close call at least. And me too.

I want to ask you guys straightforwardly. Regardless of the fact that Griffith will probably win the battle, which one do you really support in your mind? I definitely go for Ganishka.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2007, 06:54:35 PM »
Ganishka. :ganishka:

Offline yota821

Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2007, 06:55:18 PM »
Voted :ganishka:
I'm just a poor, wayfaring stranger.......just moving along to the next habitation of demons.....

Offline puella

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2007, 07:00:08 PM »
Wow, you guys are pretty fast. :ganishka:

Offline Locus of Agony

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2007, 07:13:54 PM »
I hate Griffith.

I really do, what he did to Guts and Casca, everything he's sacrificed and destroyed to become as powerful as he is, he's heartless speech to Guts on the hill of swords, etc.

I hate him!

So why the hell did I vote for him?! :???:

I really want him to crush Ganishka, I hope the battle is long and bloody, but I still want to see him win.

He's far more compelling to me then Ganishka, and I'm curious to see the power of Femto unleashed on a character I've wanted dead for awhile now.

Make it good (and long) Miura. Please?

Btw, where are you guys getting the Ganishka icon?
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2007, 07:42:40 PM »
Btw, where are you guys getting the Ganishka icon?

It's a secret known only to few. :SK:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2007, 07:53:31 PM »
My vote is for Gani. :ganishka: He was defeated far too quickly (IMHO) and I really want to see him make Griffith sweat just a little bit before being (most likely) defeated.

Offline dwarfkicker

Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2007, 08:02:28 PM »
 :griff:

Ganishka is a plot device.  Be done with him so we can move on to the next one.

The only way that Ganishka will be shown as having any chance against Griffith will be cause Griffith will allow it.  Once again with a display of his power he blew away Ganishka's mist, just like he stood his ground and no arrow touched him.  Just like he soared over hundreds of troops just to get to the comander and take his head.  And Just like with the simple act of balling his fist he used an attack (that was meant for SK but missed) that crushed a group of apostles into nothing.  Then there's the fact that he didn't even move a muscle and blew Guts back the length of a football field as well as just looking at his cannon shot and scattering it.

Griffith has been portrayed to be all powerful.  Ganishka, as powerful as he may be, is still just and apostle.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2007, 08:15:55 PM »
Griffith has been portrayed to be all powerful.

Yet he said himself that he couldn't kill Ganishka, nor hold him captive. And he felt threatened enough by a dying Flora than he sent Zodd and Grunberd along with numerous "demon soldiers" to kill her.

:daiba:

Offline Walter

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2007, 08:17:08 PM »
Ganishka's one of my favorite characters. I expect him to put on a great show for us in Wyndham. I'm counting on him playing a trump card that will surprise even Griffith like circumventing the Vortex after he's "died."
:daiba: :ganishka: :daiba:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline dwarfkicker

Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2007, 08:30:19 PM »
Quote
Yet he said himself that he couldn't kill Ganishka, nor hold him captive.

That could have been him blowing smoke up his ass too.

Once his mist form was scattered he was at Griffith's mercy.  If he wanted to, he could have had his head right then and there.

I take the "he couldn't kill him" as him not wanting to kill him at that point as it wouldn't have served to further his goals.  Griffith could if he wanted to, take Windam and make it his own by force.  He doesn't want to do that.  He wants the people under him and willingly obediant.

SK said to Guts that Griffith was like someone outside of a tale (sorry don't have the actual translations on me) and told Guts that he couldn't touch him unless he too were outside of a tale.  Guts was able to harm Ganishka in his mist form, but I highly doubt that at this point he would be able to do anything different from his last encounter with Femto.

Quote
And he felt threatened enough by a dying Flora than he sent Zodd and Grunberd along with numerous "demon soldiers" to kill her.

I agree that the magic users are a threat to him.  But I doubt that Flora could have done anything to jeopardize Griffith's life.  Besides, that can also be viewed as a distribution of troops.  That's like saying that Griffith couldn't handle the sneak attack into Doldry so he had Casca lead the attack. Given this is a difference of the Griffith of then and the Griffith of now, the principle is still the same.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2007, 08:35:53 PM by dwarfkicker »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2007, 08:40:59 PM »
That could have been him blowing smoke up his ass too.

Of course, actually I do think he was half-lying about it. But that's not something we can know with any certainty right now.

Once his mist form was scattered he was at Griffith's mercy.  If he wanted to, he could have had his head right then and there.

You don't know that. Maybe his body would have just dissolved or something else. Don't be so confident about stuff we have no way to be sure of.

Griffith could if he wanted to, take Windam and make it his own by force.  He doesn't want to do that.  He wants the people under him and willingly obediant.

He could have "saved" the city in volume 27 and didn't. Instead he distracted Ganishka's attention and took Charlotte away like a thief. There's clearly more to this than just wanting the people to be obedient. He could even just marry the Queen and nobody would have anything to say about it. This isn't the thread to talk about it, but even what's going to happen with the Holy See Alliance in the coming episodes will be determinant.

SK said to Guts that Griffith was like someone outside of a tale (sorry don't have the actual translations on me) and told Guts that he couldn't touch him unless he too were outside of a tale.

What this means is that normal people and normal means can't hurt Griffith. Like arrows. However, magic isn't "normal." Magic is "outside of the material world," and that's why Griffith doesn't like magic users. I don't think you should dismiss Ganishka so easily, no matter how badly he may have fared so far.

But I doubt that Flora could have done anything to jeopardize Griffith's life.

You doubt Guts could do anything, now Flora... That's fine, but it's not like you have anything solid to base this on. It doesn't matter that Griffith went to kill Flora himself or not, the important part is that although she was a dying old woman he felt it necessary to send some of his best troops to off her.

Offline CnC

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2007, 08:55:52 PM »
I can honestly say I don't cheer for either of them, but I find their continued struggle fascinating.
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Offline dwarfkicker

Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2007, 09:27:04 PM »
I'll give.  I actually forgot that Ganishka was a magic user.  So he does have a means to harm Griffith.

Though I won't conceed to Guts having a chance to harm Griffith.  He couldn't take Grunbeld in his apostle form after giving himself to the armor.  I doubt even allowing the armor to run the show against Griffith that Guts will be able to stand toe to toe with him.  It's just not time for Guts to be able to wound him yet.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2007, 09:29:51 PM »
Though I won't conceed to Guts having a chance to harm Griffith.  He couldn't take Grunbeld in his apostle form after giving himself to the armor.

He was half-dying from Slan's wounds and the armor just made him rush headlong at his enemies... It's really no wonder he didn't defeat Grunberd then.

It's just not time for Guts to be able to wound him yet.

Clearly not, but we already knew that. We're just talking about very hypothetical stuff here.

Offline Ben

Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2007, 01:06:16 AM »
I'm definitely going with Ganishka, although I'm still not so sure that we're going to see a "clean" battle.  A showdown at the Tower of Rebirth with a little outside interference is what I'm really hoping for, though I'm sure we wont get it.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2007, 01:40:18 AM »

"You couldn't even defeat Gurunbeldo Form 2, and my power level is twice as strong! Ha Ha Ha!"

By that logic, Guts could have never harmed Slan either, herself a much more valid comparison to Griffith (though there isn't one), and look how that turned out. Forgot? =)

Anyway, I think Griffith is going to beat Ganishka because he already beat Lord Gennon and they both have beards! :troll:

Offline Uriel

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2007, 02:40:58 AM »

Griffith. I've been rooting for him since he first showed up -- why stop now? Ganishka's going down lads... sorry.

Anyway, I think Griffith is going to beat Ganishka because he already beat Lord Gennon and they both have beards! :troll:

XD

Offline dwarfkicker

Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2007, 03:22:56 AM »
Quote
By that logic, Guts could have never harmed Slan either, herself a much more valid comparison to Griffith (though there isn't one), and look how that turned out. Forgot? =)

It seemed more like Slan let Guts impale her.  She didn't try to stop him from using his cannon either.  Slan was playing with him.  That much was evident in her dialogue.

I would use an arguement like she was weaker because she inhabited a vessel composed of blood and innards.  But by that logic Griffith being in a vessel of his own (be it a living vessel that was tainted by him to begin with) would still, for the sake of arguement, make him weaker as well.

Or, now this is just wild speculation, the power ratio between the members of the God Hand could cause large gaps between them.  Like say Void is stronger than Ubik.  He would be much stronger than Ubik.  Breaking it down, Void on his worst day would still put Ubik to shame on his best day.  But like I said that's just wild speculation because there is no evidence to support something like that.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2007, 03:58:25 AM »
It seemed more like Slan let Guts impale her.  She didn't try to stop him from using his cannon either.  Slan was playing with him.  That much was evident in her dialogue.

True, but you're assuming a lot, and even misinterpreting some events. For one, she wasn't expecting the canon, she was surprised, only afterward does she laugh it off. The stabbing is more ambiguous, but she's not smiling just after he's impaled her, again, she's reacting after the fact.

I would use an arguement like she was weaker because she inhabited a vessel composed of blood and innards.  But by that logic Griffith being in a vessel of his own (be it a living vessel that was tainted by him to begin with) would still, for the sake of arguement, make him weaker as well.

You're missing a deliberate point here; Guts canon did hurt the flesh and blood, but only his sword could "reach" Slan. The same with Ganishka, whom an army of Apostles, Zodd, and now even Griffith claims he couldn't touch.

Offline dwarfkicker

Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2007, 04:23:43 AM »
Quote
For one, she wasn't expecting the canon, she was surprised, only afterward does she laugh it off.

I don't know.  From volume 3 we know that she is aware that he has such a weapon.

Quote
Guts canon did hurt the flesh and blood, but only his sword could "reach" Slan.

Then perhaps Slan didn't realize just how dangerous the DS was becoming.  Laughing it off after the fact shows that she did indeed feel it, and was probably putting on airs just to make Guts still believe that he's beneath her (or something to that effect).

I'm pretty sure with that discovery Griffith was made aware of what that blade is becoming.  That and the fact that Zodd discovered that Guts was able to harm Ganishka's spirit with it.  Zodd of course would report that to his master.

Now it's just a matter of Guts further strengthening the blade to actually slay a God Hand.  But aside from that, Guts still doesn't have the ability to actually stand against Griffith's power, even with the armor, Griffith could probably cast him aside with just a thought, just as he did in volume 3.

But all that is neither here nor there.

This is mainly Griffith vs Ganishka, and I accept the fact that Ganishka's magics will potentially harm Griffith.  But as an Apostle (blocking off his magic from this part of the arguement) there's no way his power can even approach that of a God Hand's.  It's just that his magic will help him last longer than he would if he were magic-less.

Ganishka will probably throw everything but the kitchen sink at Griffith with his spell casting.  And it won't appear like a one-sided fight because Griffith will have to struggle against this.  But once he overcomes Ganishka's magics, the fight will be one-sided, probably briefly so.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2007, 04:34:27 AM by dwarfkicker »

Offline Griffith

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2007, 04:52:42 AM »
I don't know.  From volume 3 we know that she is aware that he has such a weapon.

I do. I meant she didn't see the attack coming, not that she didn't know he had a canon. Please don't make me post the actual panels. =)

Now it's just a matter of Guts further strengthening the blade to actually slay a God Hand.  But aside from that, Guts still doesn't have the ability to actually stand against Griffith's power, even with the armor, Griffith could probably cast him aside with just a thought, just as he did in volume 3.

Well, that was a reincarnation ago, we don't know the nature of Griffith's powers as he is now, his limitations and what they are exactly (he's wary of magic users, does Guts know any? =). We also don't know what more Guts can do to the DS or with the armor (looking forward to seeing him struggle with it though). And Guts doesn't necessarily need power to equal Griffith's, which isn't realistically possible anyway, to stand against him. I don't really think it can be measured like a conventional battle (like say, with any Apostle); it's more like how it is against powerful magical creatures at this point.

Offline Dirty Dog

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2007, 05:43:43 AM »
I'm rooting for Ganishka, just because I want Griffith to have an arm chopped off or a huge scar across his face or something to that effect.
If Griffith comes out of the final battle without a lasting mark of the encounter, I'll be pretty bummed out.

But Griffith will definitely win, if he were to die so soon it would ruin the plot, and I can't see Miura doing anything to ruin Berserk.
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Offline MarcusWC

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2007, 06:26:34 AM »
Aller! Ganishka! Aller!!!. 

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Griffith or Ganishka, which one are you rooting for?
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2007, 08:34:02 AM »
But as an Apostle (blocking off his magic from this part of the arguement) there's no way his power can even approach that of a God Hand's.

You're stating the obvious here man. It's always been his magic that made Ganishka unique so far, that's why he's special (well, that and being an emperor). And of course, everything "Griffith No More!" said is right, though I'd add that Guts was never "stronger" than any apostle he's beaten. Raw strength and "power," whatever that means, doesn't always have to determine the winner.

But Griffith will definitely win, if he were to die so soon it would ruin the plot, and I can't see Miura doing anything to ruin Berserk.

You can lose a battle without dying. Ganishka didn't intend to kill Griffith in this episode.