The Idea of Good?

My wife got me thinking about this question after she read the lost EPISODE "God of the Abyss" in Berserk volume 13. From my understanding (and my wife's), the Idea of Evil was created by the evil ideas of the people. I know the world of Berserk is dark and just spewing to the brim with evil. But... not everyone in Berserk is evil or has evil ideas (Puck, Schierke, and at times Guts ). So could there just possibly be an Idea of Good? And what if this Idea of Good has apostles? For example, Skullknight? For evil to exist, mustn't good exist as well? I (and my wife) may be jumping off the deep end here, but tell me what you guys and gals think.

No.

What I think is that I would like people to use the forum's Search Engine before posting threads like this one.

There's about a hundred posts from me on the topic.

If there is an Idea of Good it doesn't appear to do much of anything, or to have ever done anything. Since it is a manga, I think anything Miura wants to exist within it, he will at least hint at vaugely. I doubt there will ever be a definitive answer that it doesn't exist either though.

Serpico said:

If there is an Idea of Good it doesn't appear to do much of anything, or to have ever done anything. Since it is a manga, I think anything Miura wants to exist within it, he will at least hint at vaugely. I doubt there will ever be a definitive answer that it doesn't exist either though.

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It cant exist by principle, check this post, where Aaz says it best:

http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=6779.msg123444#msg123444

specifically:

Gurifisu said:

That's what I meant when I said, their is no actual evil... only the meaning we created.

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Yeah, that's typical "no evil/good" speech here (an old topic), and I'm afraid that's wrong. There is actual evil in Berserk, and characters call themselves evil, such as the aptly named Idea of Evil or the God Hand, or the apostles. If you want a definition of "evil" then just go by: "anything which impairs the happiness of a being or deprives a being of any good; anything which causes suffering of any kind to sentient beings; injury; mischief; harm." And if you want to know who defines what is "evil" in Berserk, the answer is Kentarou Miura. There's not much more to it than that. This kind of argument about "evil" can work in our world, but not in a fictional world where things are clearly labeled and defined.

Maybe fairies and stuff are the form of the Idea of good? Huh? Huh? =)

My fault administrator. I have just taken a full tour and now I know how to use the search engine to check for previously discussed topics. Anyway, I must agree with Serpico. The only one who could count the Idea of Good as utter nonsense is Miura . The world of Berserk has gone through so many changes, and continues to change, it would be impossible to rule out anything.

Zim Zum said:

The only one who could count the Idea of Good as utter nonsense is Miura . The world of Berserk has gone through so many changes, and continues to change, it would be impossible to rule out anything.

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Oh yeah? Well I'll go ahead and call it factually inexistent at this current point in the manga and very unlikely to ever be featured in the future in the way you are depicting it. If that changes within the next 10 years you get the right to tell me I was wrong about it. =)

You know, the problem isn't even the concept of an Idea of Good, it's the simplistic way in which people are considering it. There could be a place in the deeper part of the world were "good" prevails. It'd be remote from the Vortex of Souls and the Abyss, tiny and hidden somewhere. "Heaven" would exist in that place. It's possible and I think even likely. But because such a thing could exist doesn't mean it'd necessarily have a giant, self-conscious brain (or a pair of lungs, whatever) embodying it. Do I even need to reply about SK being an apostle of the Idea of Good? Because that's not possible, he'd need to be an apostle of the God Foot, itself created by the Idea of Good.

Now, the real question is whether there's an Idea of Neutral or not, you know, to balance the other two.

Serpico said:

I doubt there will ever be a definitive answer that it doesn't exist either though.

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If it's not mentioned at all in the manga by the time it ends then it'll mean it doesn't exist, and that will be definitive.

LoL! God Foot?  It would be funny if that actually existed. I don't mean to go off topic, but you got me thinking about this Idea of Neutral. Do you think that this Idea could possibly exist, Aazealh?

Aazealh said:

Oh yeah? Well I'll go ahead and call it factually inexistent at this current point in the manga and very unlikely to ever be featured in the future in the way you are depicting it. If that changes within the next 10 years you get the right to tell me I was wrong about it. =)

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I'm gonna hold you to that, LOL!

<----- Aazealh in the next 10 years, if the Idea of Good appears in the manga.

Zim Zum said:

I don't mean to go off topic, but you got me thinking about this Idea of Neutral. Do you think that this Idea could possibly exist, Aazealh?

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Of course, along with the Idea of Law and the Idea of Chaos! Nah, I don't think it exists. I mean, there's an "Ideal World" (together with a Material World and a Spiritual one) so there are probably ideas for a lot of things, but in this case we're talking about a living being like the Idea of Evil and I don't think there's anything similar to it in existence.

Zim Zum said:

I'm gonna hold you to that, LOL!

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Sure, go ahead. I was cautious though, I specified that it should be "in the way you are depicting it," that means it should be mostly similar in principle to the Idea of Evil and that SK should be one of its "apostles."

I always considered there being a counterbalance/existence to the Idea, but as to what, eh, could just be Guts or something complex as a complete series of events or more heaps of causality, but of "Good"...

Slightly straying off topic, what is the standing on the Idea of Evil? I'm a bit rusty (correct me for wrongness) but it isn't in the actual volumes because Miura felt it was "Too early", correct/no? I'm unaware as to whether it still counts (Well, you still see "it" briefly volume wise) but I'm wondering if Miura may push a big old retcon button and decide to delve deeper into what actually happened or if he's simply going to reiterate the lost episode in a later volume.

Manji said:

I always considered there being a counterbalance/existence to the Idea, but as to what, eh, could just be Guts or something complex as a complete series of events or more heaps of causality, but of "Good"...

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I don't see how Guts could be considered a counterbalance to the Idea of Evil. They exist on totally different levels, they can't even be compared.

Manji said:

it isn't in the actual volumes because Miura felt it was "Too early", correct/no? I'm unaware as to whether it still counts (Well, you still see "it" briefly volume wise) but I'm wondering if Miura may push a big old retcon button and decide to delve deeper into what actually happened or if he's simply going to reiterate the lost episode in a later volume.

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Episode 83 isn't part of the official canon, that's it. There's no need to retcon anything, either it'll be included later on (with variations or not) or it won't. The Idea of Evil itself is part of the official canon however.

Aazealh said:

I don't see how Guts could be considered a counterbalance to the Idea of Evil. They exist on totally different levels, they can't even be compared.

Episode 83 isn't part of the official canon, that's it. There's no need to retcon anything, either it'll be included later on (with variations or not) or it won't. The Idea of Evil itself is part of the official canon however.

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Was a little unclear on Guts, I didn't mean at all to say he was the -whole- anti-Idea, so much as an interference with its current course of action, much like he attempts with causality if not one and the same (again, just my own comparison here). I wasn't comparing them in whole aspects so much as saying Guts interfering with what the Idea wants to achieve, namely with being in direct opposition to Femto, being a wrench in the cogs, not the whole existence itself. So my mistake there.

Thanks for clearing up its place in canon. I wasn't thinking of retconing the Idea of Evil so much as the events that happened within that episode, namely Griffith's conversation itself/what it all entails.

Manji said:

I wasn't comparing them in whole aspects so much as saying Guts interfering with what the Idea wants to achieve

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We don't really know what it wants to achieve though. This isn't the thread to talk about this and it's been discussed in several threads already, but it's hard to quantify Guts' impact on the Idea of Evil, or even to say for sure if he's done anything against Its will that truly matters. He's played a determinant role in Its plans in the past (for the rise of Femto), who's to say it's over? Although indirectly, he and his friends greatly helped Griffith by thwarting Ganishka's attack on Vritannis. And as I often say, he's still carrying a beherit.

Manji said:

Thanks for clearing up its place in canon. I wasn't thinking of retconing the Idea of Evil so much as the events that happened within that episode, namely Griffith's conversation itself/what it all entails.

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Well, you can't retcon something that's been omitted from the story in the first place anyway. We only assume that the events from episode 83 are exact because nothing has directly contradicted them so far.