Author Topic: when griffith becomes femto  (Read 4344 times)

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Rufus

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when griffith becomes femto
« on: July 08, 2002, 09:16:18 PM »
i was onna place this in speculation but i decided since ift was old manga and all. sorry if this is confusing. and if it seems like im missing some points to the actual story i'd be happy to know what they are.

ok griffith decided to sacrifice the hawks because he had been using the dead *killing people* to rise up to the castle he so fondly dreams about *to rule* does he sacrifice the hawks in the same sence that he'd been killing off people to rise in rank, only now so he could eb femto. or did he do it because he decided he was higher then them and they were only there to support his dream and now he wanted to be femto and sicne they were supporting him and iving ther elife to him and he needed a sacrifice.....well the hawks were at his disposal.

ok ok short version, kill hawks and use them to rise like when he rose in midland or kill hawks cus he doesnt care about them anymore.

Offline Rellik

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2002, 10:42:01 PM »
yes the hawks was used so that he may continue his dream. Griffith didnt particularly want to become a god hand. In fact if he wasnt tortured beyond healin I have a feeling he would not have sacrificed the hawks... He always thought of the hawks as a tool he used and they helped him well. He cared about them but a tool when it becomes useless is disreagarded. The only person in the world griffith cared anout more than a tool was Guts. In my opinion thats why he hesitated to sacrifice the hawks because Guts would be one of them. But at the end his dream was more important

Offline Griffith

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2002, 11:29:38 PM »
Well said, you should post more often.  I’d like to add that I think Griffith’s feelings for Guts may have been the driving force behind his decision, or at least his ability to make it.  Rather than saying he hesitated due to those feelings, his feelings of alienation and resentment towards Guts may be what put him over the edge. Just a thought.

-Griffith
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Rellik

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2002, 10:47:03 AM »
Thanx I am a big berserk fan , best anime/manga series I have read. It is so deep.

I am going to have to disagree with that griffith felt alienated. Maybe in the beginning of his rescue, but not during the eclipse. In the manga against wyld, Guts didnt alienate him. In fact it was kinda like old times, they bonded and griffith wanted to try to save Guts. I feel that if Guts wasnt in the eclipse griffith wouldnt have need convincing from the godhand to start the sacrifice. Hence why griffith shed a tear when he said yes. He still had feelings for Guts at that time, he said so himself on that hill of swords.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Drachenfels

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2002, 11:46:40 AM »
He said that he had none feelings that would cripple him any longer towards Guts, if I remember correctly.

I don't really know what you mean with "alienated" Griffith(the mod), do you mean that Griffith felt not being a part of the Hawks any more, and only a mere helpless cripple? Then I agree.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline shiz

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2002, 12:57:11 PM »
Griff wanted to prove to Guts that he was his equal by showing him nothing will get in the way of his dream. Just like when Guts defeated him and left the hawks to prove to griff that he was his equal.

Griff was showing in his twisted way that he is his friend.

In short. I can get into it more detailed but I am too lazy ;x
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2002, 01:52:58 PM »
Well, it was Griffith’s feeling of love for Guts that allowed him to have any feelings of anger and betrayal in the first place, I don’t deny he had those feelings (even now). And I think my thoughts on the matter and Rellik’s can coexist, I totally agree with both ideas (it just depends on how you look at it), and I think both may have been present in Griffith’s mind.  It’s paradoxical, but so is human nature, and that’s why Berserk is so deep. ;)

-Griffith

P.S. By “alienated”, I meant from everything (even himself; who he was, his way of life, and the like), but since he sees Guts as the cause of this alienation it’s how his resentment is justified.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Rellik

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2002, 01:55:29 PM »
Quote
He said that he had none feelings that would cripple him any longer towards Guts, if I remember correctly.

I don't really know what you mean with "alienated" Griffith(the mod), do you mean that Griffith felt not being a part of the Hawks any more, and only a mere helpless cripple? Then I agree.


Yes at the hill of swords he said he no longer felt for Guts anymore, but by him saying that it is also saying that he had feelings for Guts in the past, hence during and before the eclipse.
Him feeling alienated during the eclipse is basically an opinion unless you ask the creator himself. I for one think he felt alienated during and right after the rescue, but not during the eclipse. So I don't think by Guts coming back to the hawks pushed griffith over the edge.

@griffith: Yes I see your point, I was thinking of human feelings in a too simplistic term. Ahh just another point in berserk that has become more complex for me .

Offline puella

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2002, 02:47:40 PM »
Quote


Yes at the hill of swords he said he no longer felt for Guts anymore,

really?  ???
as far as I remember, Griffith says "I am here to check my feeling for you..........I'm free now"
but does this mean Griffith doesn't have feeling for Guts any more?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Rufus

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2002, 05:01:55 PM »
im guessing it would eman that cus griffiths all moved onto better things now and doesnt care hes got a army now he needs no Guts.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Walter

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2002, 05:34:43 PM »
Quote

really?  ???
as far as I remember, Griffith says "I am here to check my feeling for you..........I'm free now"
but does this mean Griffith doesn't have feeling for Guts any more?

Relik just meant that Griffith confirmed that he ONCE cared about Guts when he said those words on the hill of swords.

Quote
im guessing it would eman that cus griffiths all moved onto better things now and doesnt care hes got a army now he needs no Guts.

By that logic, Griffith only cared about Guts because of his fighting ability... Doesnt that seem a bit shortsighted to you?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Rufus

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2002, 09:07:40 PM »
well i didn tmean it liekthat before gutsw as someone special to him and now hes not because griffith has moved on, Guts should to hes all livin in the past with his 'revenge'
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Walter

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2002, 09:41:28 PM »
Quote
well i didn tmean it liekthat before gutsw as someone special to him and now hes not because griffith has moved on, Guts should to hes all livin in the past with his 'revenge'

Thats what Casca is though, his chance to move on. And so far, hes chosen not to chase his revenge, but to secure Casca's life BEFORE his revenge. Hes on the riight track, but he still has the revenge in the back of his mind. I'd say hes doing a good job, relative to what he USED to be.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Rufus

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2002, 07:37:03 AM »
yea your right. .....think guts could ever become an apostle? or is the beast within his own demon.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline shiz

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2002, 08:55:10 AM »
yeah i kind think the beast is him.
Cause once I saw it with one eye and the other like not there..
It was there but it had a image in it and didnt look like it was actually used.
Also the beast is supposed to take the humans place or something. I forget what he said exactly.

Offline Rellik

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2002, 03:06:51 PM »
Actually I never thought the beast was a different entity then Guts. I always thought they were one in the same. They are apart of human nature (hence the lil' quote under my avatar). It's just that Guts is not totally apart of this world and his "devil within" took on a physical form, just like the demons he fights.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Drachenfels

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Re: when griffith becomes femto
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2002, 09:02:39 AM »
The beast ist jut a aspect of Guts' mind. It doesn't have any real form. It's like the devil in the corner of his head that tells him to do evil. What we see in the Manga is no physical representation of the beast, but exists only in Guts' mind.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »