Virginia Tech shootings kill 32+ people

Walter said:
While that's the obvious lead on motive, I wouldn't buy that as the complete story just yet.

And Shanghai? Huh? That's news to me. Where'd you read it?

I am not sure about how reliable this is, but it has been quoted by a few news articles and in another forum.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/343354,vatech041607.articleprint

Mentions that the man has a visa issued from Shanghai, which most likely mean that he lives around there. Then again, some sources in the Wikipedia article about this are claiming that he is of East Asian decent, with no specific details in terms of country of origin.

I guess we have to wait a couple of days to see how things really are.
 

Walter

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Ruins said:
I am not sure about how reliable this is, but it has been quoted by a few news articles and in another forum.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/343354,vatech041607.articleprint
I guess we have to wait a couple of days to see how things really are.
Yeah, being a journalist myself, I notice they didn't hang that information on anyone other than "authorities" which means either they heard it from a source who chose not to go on the record, or it's still unreliable information, but they wanted to run with it anyway for the publicity (hey, I've done it too).

But yeah, I'm sure we'll get a big press conference where much will be revealed within the next 24-48 hours. Until then, I don't really think it'd be wise in the long run to start pointing fingers at anonymous "asian" countries, but that's just the ethical side of me speaking.
 
Walter said:
Yeah, being a journalist myself, I notice they didn't hang that information on anyone other than "authorities" which means either they heard it from a source who chose not to go on the record, or it's still unreliable information, but they wanted to run with it anyway for the publicity (hey, I've done it too).

But yeah, I'm sure we'll get a big press conference where much will be revealed within the next 24-48 hours. Until then, I don't really think it'd be wise in the long run to start pointing fingers at anonymous "asian" countries, but that's just the ethical side of me speaking.

The "asian" appearance has been reported in several sources, including an eyewitness report on bbcnews.com, which I trust a fair bit.

And whats the point of discussing something like this in a forum without early speculation? Being Chinese myself, I demand more gossip less ethics :guts:
 

Walter

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Ruins said:
The "asian" appearance has been reported in several sources, including an eyewitness report on bbcnews.com, which I trust a fair bit.

And whats the point of discussing something like this in a forum without early speculation? Being Chinese myself, I demand more gossip less ethics :guts:
I wasn't disputing the asian look many witnesses specified, and I even stated in one of my earlier posts.

I just think we should hold off on the country of origin naming game until we know for sure, because it would be really embarassing should this guy NOT come from Shanghai, or his motive NOT to be because his girlfriend was supposedly cheating on him.

But by all means, continue to make your ASSertions.
 

Serpico

Farnese is the bomb diggity
Pretty sad event. I think we all take random or "kill everyone" shootings a bit personally because it could easily have been us or our friends. It is infuriating when people die because some deranged baby with a gun had his feelings hurt.

A girlfriend sounds like a likely suspect as to what pushed him over the edge but it doesn't explain wanting to kill everyone else. I wouldn't be suprised if this guy was also flunking out of school, and came to hate the whole institution, choosing a building where a disliked professor or student was located to take it out on.
 
Serpico said:
...

A girlfriend sounds like a likely suspect as to what pushed him over the edge but it doesn't explain wanting to kill everyone else. I wouldn't be suprised if this guy was also flunking out of school, and came to hate the whole institution, choosing a building where a disliked professor or student was located to take it out on.

Pretty much what happened with the guy at my Uni. He was doing poorly at a final year class (Macro Economics from memory), getting teased by other students, the whole works. He ended up killing two of his bullies and injuring a lecturer. But, before he can do more, the injured lecturer distracted him and he got a roundhouse in the face from a student, which ended everything right there.

Edit: He was actually an honours student, but was failing a class due to poor English. He was scheduled to give a speech on the day he went on a killing rampage, which he delayed until as late as possible. Most of the people that knew him, including those at the gun club he was with, say he had issues with communication due to poor English.
 

Aazealh

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puella said:
The shooter is a South Korean student...

Just like stupidity, madness is equally distributed between all countries/ethnic groups. Doesn't really matter if the guy was South Korean or Chinese or a purebred American.
 
Somehow the whole video games one post and then Korean the next linked fluidly to me. :serpico:
Ruins said:
before he can do more, the injured lecturer distracted him and he got a roundhouse in the face from a student, which ended everything right there.
Hahaha, that's kind of awesome if that's true. I could've believed a tackle, or someone just getting the nerve to take some punches at him, but a round house kick? That's kind of elaborate. I looked up the Wiki article you posted earlier on this, and that's interesting how similar (on a smaller scale) this is to the recent shooting.
Hmmmm... I'm starting to think the pressures of doing well in school was a factor for both of these cases. I hear Japanese students have a bit of a high suicide rate, honor and whatnot? :(
 
spineylamb said:
Hahaha, that's kind of awesome if that's true. I could've believed a tackle, or someone just getting the nerve to take some punches at him, but a round house kick? That's kind of elaborate. I looked up the Wiki article you posted earlier on this, and that's interesting how similar (on a smaller scale) this is to the recent shooting.

I am pretty sure the kick happened from what I heard on campus, and from news reports. The shooter was kicked and then tackled down by both the injured lecturer and the guy who kicked him, Alastair Boast. Alastair is one of the heads of the Monash Kung Fu (Wing Chun from memory) club, and he is one big, tough bastard lol. Actually, I found a picture of him. He is the guy on the left and yes, he is that tall:
http://www.monash.edu.au/news/monashmemo/img/20021211braver2.jpg

On another note, CNN has been reporting that he is an English major. Not sure if this is a standard English or English as a 2nd Language course, but given the short time he has been in the US, the pressure of having to quickly lose his accent would have been pretty bad. It took me at least a couple of years to be proficient in English, and that was back when I was 11. Can't imagine how hard it would be for a foreign student to do an English course at a US uni.

Oh, and this just came to mind. His name, Cho Seung-Hui, does sound Korean to me. But the name is very similar to a Chinese name, especially the typical three-syllable (although some Chinese names only have two) structure and the "Cho" lastname. This would explain the mistake some early reports made about the shooter being Chinese. My bad on citing bad news sources, and accidentally bashing my own race :judo:
 
Alaister is definitely a different name. I think of Aleister (Crowley!) when I hear it. I've also heard of Wing Chun (or whatever it's called) before as a type of martial art, so that's pretty neat that he got to put it to some serious use (and he does look like a pretty big guy). Usually in that type of situation it's kind of a wonder how anyone would react. If someone popped up with a gun, would you go into Deer-in-headlights mode, fight or flight, or would you be able to think clearly? Good for him that he got up and helped, it's a risk to do that kind of thing (easier to just lay low and hope he doesn't look your way)
 

Walter

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Ok, enough about unrelated roundhouse kicks, there are lots of details on the shooter available now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=449073&in_page_

This article has several pieces of new information released today, here are the highlights in blurbs:

- Shooter left note in his room which contained the line: "You made me do this"
- Shooter was a creative writing student
- Ballistics tests have confirmed one of the two weapons seized was used in both shootings
- He was a South Korean citizen who has lived in the United States since 1992.
- His family lived in Centreville, Va., a suburb of Washington D.C., about 240 mi. NE of Blacksburg
- Reports say the English undergraduate's creative writing was so "troubled" that Seung-Hui had been referred by teachers to the school's counselling service.

The article above has a picture of the first shooting victim, Emily Hilscher.
 
Walter said:
Ok, enough about unrelated roundhouse kicks, there are lots of details on the shooter available now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=449073&in_page_
...

The article above has a picture of the first shooting victim, Emily Hilscher.

The stuff mentioned in that article concerning Mr. Cho is pretty disturbing, especially some of his creative writing with Berserk-worthy violence and sex. However, the following grabbed my attention the most.

He died with the words 'Ismail Ax' written in red ink on the inside of one of his arms, leading to speculation that he may have been a Muslim. In Islamic lore, Ismail is a reference to the 'son of sacrifice'.

Ok... wtf?

Also, I noticed a difference in the details from different reports. The linked article says:
The 'very disturbing' letter, four pages long, includes a rambling list of grievances and attacks against 'rich kids', 'debauchery' and 'deceitful charlatans' on campus.

But the following BBC News article is saying the note left has nine pages. It also does not mention the "Ismail Ax" red ink.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6564653.stm

spineylamb said:
Usually in that type of situation it's kind of a wonder how anyone would react. If someone popped up with a gun, would you go into Deer-in-headlights mode, fight or flight, or would you be able to think clearly? Good for him that he got up and helped, it's a risk to do that kind of thing (easier to just lay low and hope he doesn't look your way)

If the gunman looks like he is going to kill other people, I will try to step in. Especially if I know everyone else around me. Then again, when something like this actually happens, my 6ft 100kg Asian ass would probably end up being under a table and crying for my Mommy...
 
Ruins said:
He died with the words 'Ismail Ax' written in red ink on the inside of one of his arms, leading to speculation that he may have been a Muslim.


I hope this isn't true... The last thing we Muslims need is even more bad press, LOL.

I wonder if there is anything we can do for the families of the slain? I remember after the Amish school house shooting, people could give money to the families of the victims to help them. Is there anything like that for this one?
 

Walter

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Ruins said:
Also, I noticed a difference in the details from different reports. The linked article says:
The 'very disturbing' letter, four pages long, includes a rambling list of grievances and attacks against 'rich kids', 'debauchery' and 'deceitful charlatans' on campus.

But the following BBC News article is saying the note left has nine pages. It also does not mention the "Ismail Ax" red ink.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6564653.stm
Well, once again the Washington Post pulls through with the most cohesive article of the day on this issue. It also mentions the "Ismail Ax" markings, and many other details that were revealed scattered throughout the day. I'm so jealous of this paper ... they had 9 reporters working on this story. If this happened in my town, guess who would be covering it? Me and one other guy.

Washington Post article

The reporters visit Cho's dorm room, his hometown, and talk to his high school friends, who said the "quiet, shy loner" was a Counterstrike fan.

Dr. Phil should put John "Fata1ity" Wendel on lockdown after this! :carcus:
 

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
I see that they mentioned Counter Strike! It's the culprit! :troll:

So with these unfortunate events that have happened. Everyone is going to be wanting changes to be done for everything. Gun Control, Immigration (all the Washington Post article says that everything was clean in that regards), procedures for these type of things. I suppose the first thing is the Gun control as others have mentioned.

I know in Japan that the majority of gun incidents is because of the Yakuza... with that it seems to work. I think there have been only 56 gun incidents in 2006. This number is going off of a story which just happened last night with the Mayor of Nagasaki (where I live) getting murdered by a Yakuza member because of some really stupid shit.

Anyways, the whole gun control works really well over here, you don't ever really have to worry about that stuff happening.

I suppose the whole issue is... how do you in a sense go cold turkey with the gun control in a nation that has had that right for a loooooong loooooong time?
 

Walter

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I really don't think gun control legislation will be an applicable angle here. The guy went through perfectly legal channels to obtain the gun and his criminal record was nonexistant. You practically can't control that kind of purchase any further without violating the constitution.

The only thing I can think of is for statewide bans on handguns to see some popularity in democratic-dominated states, but I don't think something like that would pass on a federal level. And we're talking about America here, people, the country with a system of government that takes more than 2 years to pass any real legislation.

Any legislation against guns to me would be totally superficial. If there are psychos out there who want to gun down rooms full of people, they'll get their hands on the weapons whether there are laws against them or not, it would just take a little longer, and be a little more risky for them. But what do they care? Especially if they're already resigned to killing themselves in the end.
 
Thanks for posting the link Walter. Fantastic article. Really thorough.

And, I am pretty sure video games will get the blame again. From the article:
Several Korean youths who knew Cho Seung Hui from his high school days said he was a fan of violent video games, particularly Counterstrike, a hugely popular online game, in which players join terrorism or counterterrorism groups and try to shoot each other using all types of guns.

Considering he used two pistols (or dual wielded for those in the FPS gaming scene), which is also possible in CounterStrike, this is definitely looking to be another bad day for video game companies targeting adults.

---

Something else I found while browsing the web about this. Not sure how reliable this is (AOL after all...), but two plays attributed to Cho Seung-Hui has been placed online: online.

If he really wrote those, his English seems pretty poor to me. I am not sure about English levels for immigrants in the US, but he pretty much started English schooling at the same age as me, and his English would be Mid High School level in Australia or New Zealand. Of course, the weird mix of violence and childish name calling in the plays are also very, very strange.
 

Walter

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Ruins said:
Something else I found while browsing the web about this. Not sure how reliable this is (AOL after all...), but two plays attributed to Cho Seung-Hui has been placed online: online.
I'm reading Richard McBeef right now, and the english he uses really isn't bad dude. There are 3-4 typos, but other than that it's perfectly understandable Enlgish. He even uses proper possessives, which is extremely rare on THESE forums.

I think McBeef is a Hamlet parody. No kidding. It's pretty god-awful shit, but at least it was drawing from good material? Speaking as a writer, this is possibly the worst way one can be remembered ... ever. Notoriously killing a roomful of people AND having your worst high school writing project immortalized on the internet.

The plays aren't excessively violent or even twisted. They're just ... benign shit. To even call them sophomoric would be a glorification, because they're not even pretentious.
 

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
Well what about the signs before this. In many of the articles written about this, people have said that his writings were very violent. This wouldn't be out of the norm for kids starting to go through puberty or going through "the" faze. I think more aggressive steps should have been taken to find out what issues he is having.

The story's had mentioned that they (school staff) had encouraged him to go to the councilor but left it at that. I know they couldn't have foreseen these things taking place and I think this whole situation is a huge "Would'a, should'a, could'a" but it looked like it was pretty apparent that the kid had a few issues.
 
Walter said:
I really don't think gun control legislation will be an applicable angle here. The guy went through perfectly legal channels to obtain the gun and his criminal record was nonexistant. You practically can't control that kind of purchase any further without violating the constitution.

I don't know about the criminal record, but a psychiatric evaluation would probably find something. Even a background check. Apparently he has had issues with his writing and may have seen the councilors at VT. Since Virginia has pretty slack gun laws, even considering that it is in the US, he pretty much just went into a gun store and bought a gun. To us non-US people, that alone, regardless of how sane a person looks, is a pretty crazy situation.

I guess part of the issue, as you said, is the US constitution. But isn't the "right to bear arms" an amendment to the US constitution? Why can't there be another to change it? In Australia, after the Port Arthur Massacre, which actually had a higher death toll, there was a shift in gun laws, and a government initiated buy back of guns. I think a similar thing will work in the states. Sure, it won't get rid of all the guns, but the fewer guns on the market, the more expensive they are, and the less likely things like this will happen. Of course, all this assumes the gun lobby in the states doesn't step in, which, is pretty unlikely from what I can tell.
 

Walter

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SaiyajinNoOuji-Trading Cards said:
Well what about the signs before this. In many of the articles written about this, people have said that his writings were very violent. This wouldn't be out of the norm for kids starting to go through puberty or going through "the" faze. I think more aggressive steps should have been taken to find out what issues he is having.
Are you condoning the mass psychological evaluation of all angsty teens across America who play Counterstrike and write violent stories? If so, I'd have been one of the teens redflagged by that system, and all I do is run a comic book website.

Ruins said:
I guess part of the issue, as you said, is the US constitution. But isn't the "right to bear arms" an amendment to the US constitution? Why can't there be another to change it?
Well to start, I'm not the best candidate to advocate gun ownership. I don't own one and neither does my family. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

Anyway, I wasn't referring to that amendment in the constitution. But that's a good point. All I meant was that any further screening process for buying guns, such as requiring a psychological evaluation and/or the completion of tests to gague someone's personality type based on answers to a systemized questionairre (imagine federally endorsed psych evaluations ... "make sure you fill in the answer bubble completely and do not exceed beyond the lines" ... ugh), would border on a violation of citizens rights and, to me, would resemble the beginnings of a police state.

I'm not endorsing that everyone should own a gun, but there has to be a less invasive way to stem the flow of violence in our society.

Ruins said:
I don't know about the criminal record, but a psychiatric evaluation would probably find something. Even a background check. Apparently he has had issues with his writing and may have seen the councilors at VT.
I don't think naughty writings float to the surface on criminal records or background checks. And if someone's writing denied them the right to buy a gun ... jesus, what a world to live in.
 
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