Sarkozy Wins
- Thread starter bph
- Start date
Serpico said:
Ohhhh, congratulations!
Serpico said:
The rules apply to everyone. You're just not going to intimidate me into not replying to posts on a forum I administrate. And please don't resort to this ridiculous victimization like you're an innocent bystander and not the one who started the aggression in the first place. Have some guts at least.
Serpico said:
Yes that is so. These articles don't really support what you said, especially not the way in which you misrepresented it, and they're not accurate either. There's unfortunately some employment discrimination here, that's true, but it's not like it's exclusive to France and it's been worked on for many years now. It's just not something you can change in the blink of an eye. I can tell you I've got 4 Muslim coworkers and 0 Christian ones if that means anything to you. No Buddhists that I know of either. 90% unemployment? Riiiiight. How about 100%? And then that's when you say our social system is so bad because all the Muslims live on social aid and worsen our economy? As for the 2005 riots, it was gangs of young punks that burned cars and had some sort of contest between cities to see who would burn the most. In truth it had absolutely nothing at all to do with Islam and that theme was shoehorned in by opportunists, although I don't even remember hearing about it. As shocking and over-dramatized as it was it didn't amount to more than that.
These bands aren't just sons or grandsons of North African immigrants (full French citizens who know more about US gangsta rap culture than that of their country of origin) either, there are all sorts of origins among them, including purebred French idiots. If I had to explain the context in detail to you I wouldn't even know where to begin considering how little you seem to comprehend about the situation, but religion is really the lesser argument here. It's pseudo-gangs trying to establish a territorial domination around the places they live, emulating their American models in a much lamer way. These guys don't go to the Mosque.
Serpico said:
That's what a secular state is. It's not just headscarves, it's any ostentatious religious ornament. There was a big debate about it that lasted very long and it was finally decided it'd be that way. A majority of people here is Ok with it. And now they're opening private Muslim schools for hard practicing Muslim kids that want religion as a big part of their school life (or rather whose parents want it). Al-Qaida reproaches it to us though, but hey, they've got to reproach something.
Serpico said:
Clearly it's not in question, after all you're the Farnese fanboy we've all come to know and love! And indeed you've been exemplarily nice all along in this thread as well as in the past.
Serpico said:
Without any exception. Here is a rose for you my dear @--->--->-----
Pretty long post. I read it carefully since you took awhile to type it and put in some details.
Thank you. I wouldn't belittle your personal accomplishments and I don't think you would do that to me if you weren't mad so I am going to take that as if you meant it.
Its is a four on one argument here and I still try to reply to everyone in a straight-forward way so I think I have plenty of guts. I hardly said I was being victimized, I think I said I was ok infact.
You are right about some things, for one, I don't live in france. I have not been to France. I already know enough to know though that my statement doesn't apply to every single case or person. They are accurate to the problem at large though. I have followed it for years as well as many many other issues not related to France. I can tell you bad or good things about any country. I also am aware it is not only a problem in France but we were talking about France.
Even though my 75%-90% statement was actually a question it was from my memory so I left out a detail. That is the unemployment rate among Muslim youths while the overall rate is around 30%.
Hey, this is information I actually appreciate, except the part about me not comprehending.
I remember when this happened hearing about how Jews and Christian could wear their stars and crosses still. I'm not sure whether that is still the case. I am actually for the ban, just that it should be across the board.
edit: Actually, I was pretty happy with France when this did happen. I thought it was great that they were not intimidated into letting terrorist determine government decisions. I feel that in the states we over-protect the minority and give them more rights in some cases.
Farnese fanboy... awesome. People usually say Serpico. He is pretty great too though.
Uhh, swooning or disturbed. Decisions decisions...
Aazealh said:
Thank you. I wouldn't belittle your personal accomplishments and I don't think you would do that to me if you weren't mad so I am going to take that as if you meant it.
Its is a four on one argument here and I still try to reply to everyone in a straight-forward way so I think I have plenty of guts. I hardly said I was being victimized, I think I said I was ok infact.
You are right about some things, for one, I don't live in france. I have not been to France. I already know enough to know though that my statement doesn't apply to every single case or person. They are accurate to the problem at large though. I have followed it for years as well as many many other issues not related to France. I can tell you bad or good things about any country. I also am aware it is not only a problem in France but we were talking about France.
Even though my 75%-90% statement was actually a question it was from my memory so I left out a detail. That is the unemployment rate among Muslim youths while the overall rate is around 30%.
Hey, this is information I actually appreciate, except the part about me not comprehending.
I remember when this happened hearing about how Jews and Christian could wear their stars and crosses still. I'm not sure whether that is still the case. I am actually for the ban, just that it should be across the board.
edit: Actually, I was pretty happy with France when this did happen. I thought it was great that they were not intimidated into letting terrorist determine government decisions. I feel that in the states we over-protect the minority and give them more rights in some cases.
Farnese fanboy... awesome. People usually say Serpico. He is pretty great too though.
Aazealh said:
Uhh, swooning or disturbed. Decisions decisions...
Serpico said:
No actually they're not really. Like that thing about churches and mosques compared to the US' various religions, not only was it inexact but it's also hardly comparable since churches have been built since forever here while there was hardly a need for any mosque before 1950.
Serpico said:
I don't know where you're getting those numbers. Official unemployment indicators in France don't include religion as far as I know (and for good reason since it's completely irrelevant). People don't ask you if you're practicing a religion when they hire you either. There's a high unemployment rate for young people, but it's around 20% and not 30. For serious numbers you have to check the INSEE, maybe Eurostat at most. I don't think they give any statistics concerning religion, as far as I remember only UK publishes official data specifically related to Muslims in the UE.
Serpico said:
You can wear pendants under your clothes, including "Fatima's hand" or anything you want. It just has to be hidden or at least very discreet. Jewish people can't wear their headgear in public schools either, and more generally you don't wear a cap in class, it's just common decency. Note that the quasi-totality of Muslims here understand why it's like this and totally respect it. It's just the way the country has been since the revolution and it's not going to change to accommodate religious people. Anyway, to be honest none of this is really enforced. And religion isn't an issue nearly as prominent in France as it is in the USA.
Serpico said:
But people are usually mistaken. You're a Farnese fanboy and that's why you named yourself Serpico. I know each member here. =)
Serpico said:
I thought you might not get it. Someday maybe.
Vampire_Hunter_Bob
Cats are great
Serpico said:
As a Whale Biologist I must ask you to stop. You are just an embarrassment too all people that hold France bashing close to their heart!
CnC said:So I take it there was no "A" in English, then?
In actuality CnC my grades are my own business but I have gotten A's in all my English classes, and every class to date. I would rather tell people I am hard working than recite grades as a test of intelligence though.
@ Aaz
If you say the articles are not accurate I'm left with the choice of trusting you or them. Is your view more accurate? Could be. I have no way to tell though. I have to take everything and average it all together. There are an abundant amount of news reports across the board on these issues though and they are all similar. Take this one
http://www.aztlan.net/french_muslim_rebellion.htm
Here is a quote from within
"There are over 750 of these types of neighborhoods throughout France and some have unemployment rates as high as 35%. Violence, drugs and police brutality is the order of the day for most, who by necessity, have to reside in these French "ghettos". There are approximately 5 million Muslims in France and the large majority live, because of religious and racial discrimination, in hopeless poverty and destitution."
Not much different than what I said right. I got it unilateraly even from French sources so frankly I believe it. Each article is subject to its owns points of error yes, but like I said I am taking the average. I've even read a few with a less negative outlooks but there are not a lot of those. If it is true, then I think of it as fair game to make a point. My point being relations are not a beneficial priority right now. I said it in a rather cynical way, and probably went a little overboard but that goes both ways. It doesn't mean I hate the French because I have an equal amount of cynical things I could say about America or most any country.
First thing that popped up when googled.
"Unemployment among Muslim youth runs over 50 percent. "
http://www.cgfi.org/cgficommentary/french-model-fails-muslim-youthand-farming
And again there were many similar corraborating articles.
If that is the case then I agree with it.
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
My intention was not to bash anyone nor do I have any desire too.
Vampire_Hunter_Bob
Cats are great
Serpico said:
If they were why did you mention your A from some statistic you put in a report?
You kinda fucked that whole point up didn't you? All i've gotten out of reading your last couple post is your some snob that gets good grades.
straight out bashing is highlighted. And i added comments behind everything.
I can't go on anyfurther. i think I have brain cancer.
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
Lets see, maybe because Aaz said I got them from fox news, when I got them in Sociology and used them in a paper checked by a proffessor which recieved an A. Wouldn't really be relevant if I had failed would it.
Actually he implied I did not do well in English so I corrected it. I was not the one who brought it back up nor did I want to again so I clarified it. I am sorry I am a snob who says hard work is more important?
Ahh so telling it how it is is bashing huh? Why don't you try reading the links I posted. They contain the same information. I'm sorry facts such as literacy levels of various countries offend you lol. I can't do anything about them.
Good luck with that. I appreciate the time you put into that rather than actually bringing in any facts or relevant opposing information, seems to be a theme here!
Forest Wraith
Evil is born when we lose power over ourselves.
Oh, Faith and Begorra . . . I laugh and cry for my country.
Griffith! What does the Scouter say about his Power Level?
Griffith! What does the Scouter say about his Power Level?
Forest Wraith said:
22.7 billion
My interest further discussion is about to go from 1 to 0 though after I fall asleep. PM is the only way to guarantee I will see anything else anyone might have to say on the issue. If it is that important to you I will reply.
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Forest Wraith said:
Lets take a reading then...
Here it comes:
Serpico said:
That coincides with the power reading, it went from a peak of about one back down to the big squadouche; which is what happens when you reply to every irrelevant post made while claiming you're not interested in replying.
I wouldn't be surprised if he did reply in his sleep. =)
Serpico said:
Or maybe you could find more reliable sources, I don't know. National or International statistics institutes are where it's at.
Serpico said:
So is this supposed to be more credible than your own word? What is this, an amateur Aztec news site? Now I wish it were Fox News.
Serpico said:
The unemployment rate is correct here though, about 30% in those areas, the highest in the country. Now first thing, while they've been sometimes related to American ghettos, they certainly are not, and second, it isn't true all the Muslims live there because of racial discrimination, actually that's a straight lie. Islam is a religion and not a "race" if anything. It's poor areas and "poor" people live there because the flats are cheap. These buildings were built to massively house French executives for cheap after the second world war, and as they became richer and started buying houses, poorer people started using them as well, including immigrants. All waves of French immigrants got through it, including Italian, Portuguese, Polonese immigrants, and those from North Africa, as well as West Africa nowadays. You should also know that a minority of these areas are really problematic, the majority has no serious problem. You should know that people living in those "cités" would be offended if you told them they're ghettos. That's really misrepresenting them.
Their shittiness comes from the fact they're self contained and more like sleeping places, nothing's nearby (and they're old too). So many youths, poor and bored, get to fuck around. Coupled with other factors it gets this gang phenomenon I mentioned, where rival bands will fight each other, etc. It's really a complex situation we could talk about for days and days and while the government has responsability there's also a huge opportunism from some of these youths who just want to live a gangster's lifestyle and are quick to hypocritically complain about their harsh childhood when it suits them. It's typically a small amount of young thugs that ruin the daily life of all the inhabitants there. You see, it's hard to seriously talk on the subject without having a real knowledge of French history and unfortunately that Aztec guy seems to largely fail at it.
Serpico said:
Well it comes down to what sources and how reliable they are exactly, or whether they're pushing an agenda by turning things a certain way. You know 10 blogs can say the same thing and be wrong, number doesn't guarantee accuracy. And French media isn't exempt of bullshit itself. I believe for such matters it'd be better to base yourself on books by specialists. If you spoke French I'd point you to some TV programs where experts on the question and French Muslim leaders discuss the problems and highlight the reality of the situation in an easy to digest format, but I'm guessing that's not the case.
Serpico said:
Actually I wonder where that "point" came out from. I don't think anybody finds it a priority, bph just said it'd be easier to restore a better relationship over the next several years and was happy for it. Like I said in the post to which you didn't reply, maybe you should have followed the election's themes, you might have known better than to reply like that then. There's also funny contradictions in your original post with the "can't be wrong to change these bad things" when our newly elected president was largely responsible for the 2005 riots by openly provoking people for example. Also, I'm sorry to say but even right now there's still cooperation between France and the USA and leaders of our respective countries don't seem to think it's not beneficial, so I'm going to take their side over yours. It's not like having good relations with foreign countries takes away the huge focus we have and have had for decades on our own problems.
Serpico said:
50% isn't 90%, and anyway what's this article's source for this number? It's a site about agriculture, do they conduct societal research in France? Allow me to doubt it. I'll tell you, I think this number is a guesstimate because no real stats exist for it, I also think the "Muslims" in this number include all people of North African origins in France (wrongfully so) and maybe even include all actual immigrants regardless of their origin (as opposed to these famed "Muslim youths" who are not immigrants themselves but French citizens), and lastly I think these are meant to be specific to the poorer areas of the country and not a generality. This is truly a gross amalgam and dare I say a show of bigotry that we could talk about for hours on end. It's also pushing the view that ethnic groups are not dissociable from religion which is bullshit, especially in a secular state like ours.
For hard facts, pure numbers based on censuses: INSEE
Vampire_Hunter_Bob
Cats are great
Serpico said:
Uhhh why are you asking me?! Yeah you sound like a snob.
England is a bunch of tea sucking limeys! I'M TELING IT HOW IT ISSSS! See Bashing.
Why should I bother reading anything you link to? Aaz seems to think their all bunk so that's good enough reason for me to just ignore which also They could turn out to be very biased. So when you start getting your information from lets say here: https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/fr.html then I'll start believing you.
Hey I learned from the best. Edit, all kidding aside if you ever look at my link you would find that France was the leading nation in Europe with anything having to do with military power. [see debunked claim you made]
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
Bob, You seem pretty fixated on this so I am forced to assume I haver triggered some kind of inferiority complex you have. If you actually finish the entire two lines I wrote on the matter you would see I clearly said hard work was more important. I never implied grades made anyone better than anyone else but infact I said the opposite. If just the mere fact I am a straight A student bothers you so much then you have personal issues.
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
Good for you. I would recommend thinking for yourself and I might actually care what you had to say. Blind faith third-hand knowledge is of no interest to me, nor is debating something with someone who has not collected any information for themselves.
If you learn to inform yourself then here you go, literally thousands of sources with the same information. Maybe the hundreds of organizations they come from are just all biased though. Believe what you like.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=french+muslim+discrimination
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=french+muslim+youths
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=french+muslim+ghetto
@Aaz
I don't desire two days of debate with five other people, but I would feel like a jerk to completely ignore what you took the time to write.
Hey I thought a third party source would be better. I could provide you with the Fox News data if you really wished for that though.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174875,00.html
I agree completely, but also I have to value your opinion roughly equivilant to one blog, and honestly I do value it to some greater degree than say an American blog (which I don't read to start).
I get a lot of the things you said, millions of immigrants flood into a cramped environment and then what happens? Places that were never intended to be have become "ghettos", and not by the specific will of the French people, but rather the reality of the situation. The factors are countless and many are not reported at all. If we had replaced the French population with the American population in the same situation, would we have done better? No, I don't think so at all. I appreciate the finer details you have provided and I will factor them into my future consideration and sensitivity towards the issue.
I don't get many French channels and I don't think any include such programs. If you have a specific book recommendation I would be happy to read it provided I can get a copy for cheap.
bph said:Actually, England really is a bunch of tea sucking limeys, not to mention the perpetrators of the Great Famine and the suppression of glorious Celtic culture.
So true
Forest Wraith
Evil is born when we lose power over ourselves.
Most of you will be stunned to know that Europe is apparently finished, it's really sad and tragic, the European world is being actively invaded and taken over by Muslim immigrants. So, now Native Europeans in France, The UK, and Germany are being overrun by Muslim peoples who refuse to assimilate and will out-breed the Native population in a few generations . . . As you can imagine, reading things like that makes me hold my head in my hands, sigh in frustration and briefly consider going on some sort of a V-Tech Road-trip . . .
Basically, the Thugs in my Country are actively propagandizing circumstances such as the riots that occurred in France recently as being proof of the Red- . . . I'm sorry; Menace of Islam. I write off such claims because I know that they are coming from biased sources, however, the Thugs in my country have effectively consolidated their political power in a big, scary way. If you hear or see any weird reports coming out of America . . . Well, of actual armed conflicts breaking out I mean. Just hope that the good people make it out of there safely. As for my fellow Americans on this forum: Rally under the banner of the Brand or whatever symbol we can easily identify. We'll be making a Mad-Dash for Canada.
Basically, the Thugs in my Country are actively propagandizing circumstances such as the riots that occurred in France recently as being proof of the Red- . . . I'm sorry; Menace of Islam. I write off such claims because I know that they are coming from biased sources, however, the Thugs in my country have effectively consolidated their political power in a big, scary way. If you hear or see any weird reports coming out of America . . . Well, of actual armed conflicts breaking out I mean. Just hope that the good people make it out of there safely. As for my fellow Americans on this forum: Rally under the banner of the Brand or whatever symbol we can easily identify. We'll be making a Mad-Dash for Canada.
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
It took this much criticism and intellectual backpedaling for someone to learn discretion? And it feels like it's all in vain, simply to avoid admitting fault for one's belligerent remarks.
Anyway, I coined a new term out of this mess, one to describe the xechnaos of the World, a "Google-Intellectual."
Anyway, I coined a new term out of this mess, one to describe the xechnaos of the World, a "Google-Intellectual."
It probably feels like it was in vain because it was. Aside from Aaz no one else has made a serious post. The lack of actual knowledge on the other end along with the blind insults are amusing though. Once you have been forced to use them you have already lost.
"Google-Intellectual"
I know how to utilize a search tool. I kinda wish you did and then it would save me the 10 seconds it took for me to find support for my statements. Who knows you might even manage to find something to support your own but so far no promise has been shown.
"Google-Intellectual"
I know how to utilize a search tool. I kinda wish you did and then it would save me the 10 seconds it took for me to find support for my statements. Who knows you might even manage to find something to support your own but so far no promise has been shown.
Forest Wraith
Evil is born when we lose power over ourselves.
Holy Shit . . .You know, changing your position repeatedly in an attempt to confuse us doesn't work, we just stand in awe . . .
Forest Wraith said:
The ability to change one's position is a positive trait, but mine remains the same. That fact I choose to take in what I recognize as some good information Aaz posted doesn't change that. Second, I don't need to confuse any of you. It seems that job was done before we started.
CnC said:Wow, who left this shit-pile in the middle of the news forum?
Why are you guys still discussing this? Do you expect, at this point, to able to sway the child away from his laughable ignorance?
or is really a priority that the baby be proven wrong?[/center]
Actually they are not discussing anything, they are just as desperate, as you obviously are to land an insult. Proving me wrong seems out of the range of you guys.
If all you have in you is attacks and images why dont you take it to PM. I can save them all for when I need a laugh.