Author Topic: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?  (Read 7697 times)

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Offline Asuka's Lover

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If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« on: June 14, 2007, 07:48:56 AM »
If guts has suffered mortal wounds, as he usually does as a struggler, and the armor is covering them up, does guts have to stay in the armor? I have not read any translations or further manga besides what dark horse releases, so i just got past issue 17, where guts saves Farnese from the horny horse.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2007, 01:08:49 PM »
Guts has never suffered any mortal wound so far, else he'd be dead. Anyway, the Berserk's Armor doesn't keep him alive, it only allows him to keep fighting even when severely wounded. The reason removing it can pose problem is if it's piercing his bones to maintain them in place, like after his fight with Grunberd.

But if he was truly mortally wounded, he'd die whether wearing the armor or not.

Offline Proj2501

Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2007, 01:20:38 PM »
Volume 28 or 29 (not at home) clearly shows Guts with the armor off and resting in bed.

Anyway, the Berserk's Armor doesn't keep him alive, it only allows him to keep fighting even when severely wounded. The reason removing it can pose problem is if it's piercing his bones to maintain them in place, like after his fight with Grunberd.
But if he was truly mortally wounded, he'd die whether wearing the armor or not.

Remember Asuka's Lover, the previous owner bled to death while wearing this armor. :schierke:

I have not read any translations or further manga besides what dark horse releases, so i just got past issue 17, where guts saves Farnese from the horny horse.
I'm no detective, but how do you even know about the armor yet?

so i just got past issue 17
Volume 17
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 01:24:51 PM by Proj2501 »

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2007, 02:55:44 PM »
Yeah, the new stuff he gets in vol 17 isn't the Berserker armor.

You'll know it when you see it.

Offline Asuka's Lover

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2007, 05:56:01 AM »
I was reading the FAQ on this website, and that's what it said, I totally understand where you guys are coming from and that's why I had to ask this question because I was curious, and you're right I am no detective, but one day I'll be Nightwing instead of Batman, LOL. Anyways, I already know that the Berserker's armor hasn't shown up yet, I barely got past seeing Casca at the end of this manga, (YAY for the return of the anime character who resembles Halle Berry). But yeah, I READ/Heard that Slan, member of the God hand, gave guts the mortal wound. And since you pointed out that the Berserker's armor only keeps bones in place, I am wondering why the administrator / powers that be of the Skullknight community would put that in the encyclopedia, or FAQ.
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Offline Walter

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2007, 06:27:34 AM »
I was reading the FAQ on this website, and that's what it said, I totally understand where you guys are coming from and that's why I had to ask this question because I was curious ... But yeah, I READ/Heard that Slan, member of the God hand, gave guts the mortal wound. And since you pointed out that the Berserker's armor only keeps bones in place, I am wondering why the administrator / powers that be of the Skullknight community would put that in the encyclopedia, or FAQ.
Well, you really shouldn't be reading the Glossary/Encyclopedia if you're just at volume 17. Especially if you're using it to shape your own views. It's just meant as a fan-made companion to the series, not the infallible word of Miura or anything.

That being said, the last line in the glossary was misleading. I corrected it.
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Offline Asuka's Lover

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2007, 09:03:17 AM »
Wow, thanks alot. I guess you administrator guys are pretty cool with your powers to shape the history of the encyclopedia, lol j/k. But thanks for correcting my point of view. Yeah, I just wait for the english translation even though I took advanced japanese at my college, I hate transcribing kanji or looking up the meaning of words I can already read through hiragana/katakana or just recognize, but then again, there are translations available. I don't know, I'm just kind of trying to find out what to expect since I have just seen Farnese and Serpico for the first time from 14 to 17. I am waiting For Schierke.
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Offline KazigluBey

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2007, 08:02:02 AM »
Given what could happen to him if he continues wearing it, I would say that he may very well have to evolve as a warrior through some other means, in order to continue to be a threat to the Apostles. Getting rid of the armor could be a key factor in his decision making, as far as his new path is concerned once they reach Elfhelm.
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Smith

Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2007, 12:53:08 PM »
Getting rid of the armor could be a key factor in his decision making, as far as his new path is concerned once they reach Elfhelm.

I doubt the armor will be removed by any mean, its like something symbolic to the manga (you know the theme of the title?), just like the DS.

Anyway, I believe reaching Elfhelm would most likely get his wound healed and getting a better control of his armor instead of throwing it aside completely. That armor is the closest thing (beside DS) Guts can have in order to even touch Griffith
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Walter

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2007, 02:16:26 PM »
Anyway, I believe reaching Elfhelm would most likely get his wound healed and getting a better control of his armor instead of throwing it aside completely. That armor is the closest thing (beside DS) Guts can have in order to even touch Griffith
Either way, I don't think even Hanafubuku Oh will be able to remove the basic function of the cursed armor. I mean, it's not like Guts can just walk around the world map fighting 255 battles for it to transformed into the Paladin Armor.  :carcus:
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Offline Forest Wraith

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2007, 11:59:01 PM »
When Guts first got the Berserk Armor, Miura stated that now the real story can begin right? Considering that we also know that the story is far from finished, it's interesting to wonder what that might mean. Perhaps Guts will have to forcibly conquer the Spirit of the Armor?
The cold season drifts over the land.
They all huddle in the brown corners.
Some would settle for less.
The castles were all empty, asleep
Long awaiting their King.
Beckoning round the bend.
-Opeth: Karma

Offline Walter

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2007, 12:25:48 AM »
When Guts first got the Berserk Armor, Miura stated that now the real story can begin right? Considering that we also know that the story is far from finished, it's interesting to wonder what that might mean. Perhaps Guts will have to forcibly conquer the Spirit of the Armor?
Actually, it was said just after Millennium Falcon began, around episode 179. This quote keeps getting mangled. Next time I hear it, it'll probably involve Guts' magical dog or something.

Here's a post by Aaz that explains it well:

Quote from: Aazealh
This is a deformation of a quote that has been around for years and every time I hear it, it seems it's moved farther away from its original meaning. The source of this misconception is a comment from Miura in the YA n2 of 2001 in which he said among other things "グリフィスが登場して、やっとスタートラインに立った気がする。" That can be translated like this: "With the appearance of Griffith, I have the feeling that I am on the starting line at last."

This refers to Femto's incarnation of course, back at the end of volume 21.
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Offline Forest Wraith

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2007, 03:01:39 AM »
Ahh . . . Okay, that makes a lot more sense considering the lengths that Miura has gone to in order to drive home the point that the Armor is bad for him.
The cold season drifts over the land.
They all huddle in the brown corners.
Some would settle for less.
The castles were all empty, asleep
Long awaiting their King.
Beckoning round the bend.
-Opeth: Karma

Offline KazigluBey

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2007, 08:39:55 AM »
Quote
doubt the armor will be removed by any mean, its like something symbolic to the manga (you know the theme of the title?), just like the DS.

Perhaps getting rid of is thinking in extreme terms. From what we are shown, the armor will most likely destroy him if he continues to use it in his current state.  Guts changing from this Berserker to something different as far as how he views himself in the macrocosm of existence, could be the major turning point for him.  Initially he found a home with the Hawks, fighting alongside Griffith, struggling and sacrificing for the man's dream until he realized that Griffith would never view him as his equal unless he had a dream of his own that he struggled for, that he'd give everything for.  Guts leaves to become stronger so that he can stand before Griffith as his equal, yet through this attempt to stand on his own he ends up losing everything (through the tangled web of causality), unleashing the Berserker (something that's always been there but shown in lesser doses as times progressed) inside him at the eclipse through the unbearable agony of loss.  Now he's branded and Casca is traumatized to the point where she's screwed up mentally, so he struggles to stay alive and protect her, killing apostles while his anguish and hatred are bottled up inside.  He becomes the Black swordsman, a killing machine who's only purpose is to fight against impossible odds, grinding away through existence and being defined by living by the sword.  The Berserker armor is a gamble but he is unable to face the more powerful Apostles and triumph without its help, and in the process this darker side of him, this Berserker mentality is fostered to the point where he may very well die because of it. 

The armor as it currently is, is a temporary fix that lets him face these insane odds and remain alive. But as I've said, for how long?  Perhaps on Elfhelm he will (as Forest Wraith put it) conquer this dark side that is drawn out due to the armor. And through this conquest of the darkness, the Berserker inside him, he will in turn change and redefine who he is, and what purpose he has in this world.  If Casca is healed and is able to care for herself again (not need a babysitter to make sure she's taken care of) he won't have to be her guardian angel to the same degree.  He may finally be able to make some kind of peace with the hell he's gone through and find that new reason for combating the evil that Griffith is bringing to the world. 

Since one of the main themes is the idea of fate, and the pre-determined/crafted future that plays itself out, I would wager a guess that breaking the chains of fate would be a significant task for Guts and his friends to accomplish.

Just my 2 cents.
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Blues

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2007, 03:39:22 AM »
My view on the Berserk armor is somewhat mixed. As things go along, my way of looking, Guts has increasingly (prepare: Pun ahead) more machine than human. He starts out as organic/fleshy=in terms of child to adult=, and gradually, more and more of his physical humanity starts to slowly decay (well probably not the right word, more like "covered up"). His swords grow in time eventually reaching the Dragon Slayer (in and of itself being more than an ordinary sword/slab of iron). The loss of his arm being added onto with a canon and most of his body covered in a cape/armor, and finally, the Berserk armor, almost closing up all sign of flesh and bone.

This reference requires stoning, but since its appearance, I've always likened the armor and Guts to Cecil and his Dark Knight/ascending to Paladin. Not that I expect Guts to transform into well, essentially what Griffith appears to be, but I think there will be a change along those lines.

Offline Forest Wraith

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2007, 07:06:21 AM »
My view on the Berserk armor is somewhat mixed. As things go along, my way of looking, Guts has increasingly (prepare: Pun ahead) more machine than human. He starts out as organic/fleshy=in terms of child to adult=, and gradually, more and more of his physical humanity starts to slowly decay (well probably not the right word, more like "covered up"). His swords grow in time eventually reaching the Dragon Slayer (in and of itself being more than an ordinary sword/slab of iron). The loss of his arm being added onto with a canon and most of his body covered in a cape/armor, and finally, the Berserk armor, almost closing up all sign of flesh and bone.

This reference requires stoning, but since its appearance, I've always likened the armor and Guts to Cecil and his Dark Knight/ascending to Paladin. Not that I expect Guts to transform into well, essentially what Griffith appears to be, but I think there will be a change along those lines.

I'd have to argue that Guts evolution has been more about what he has sacrificed in order to get where he is then what he has lost . . . I think I get what you are saying but I don't think it's something we can define in terms of loss and gain because there is so much else going on. If anything, Guts is becoming something more than human. Of course, I'm sure you've noticed that as well.
  The potential loss of his humanity has been a theme in the series: First with The Beast and now the biggest threat being from it's manifestation through the Armor. However, he has become much more humane as the story has progressed in spite of what he has had to sacrifice. It's an interesting Dynamic.
The cold season drifts over the land.
They all huddle in the brown corners.
Some would settle for less.
The castles were all empty, asleep
Long awaiting their King.
Beckoning round the bend.
-Opeth: Karma

Offline Che Gamma

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2007, 08:14:15 AM »
Well, you really shouldn't be reading the Glossary/Encyclopedia if you're just at volume 17. Especially if you're using it to shape your own views. It's just meant as a fan-made companion to the series, not the infallible word of Miura or anything.

That being said, the last line in the glossary was misleading. I corrected it.

wow that's rude. For the longest time I thought the same thing. If he chooses to read the Encyclopedia that's his own choice there's no rule against that. Who has time to learn Japanese or wait for the UNITED STATES to get more volumes. He had a question and he just wanted an answer. What's the point of providing information to people if you can't use it till they find out for themselves. That's like making a dictionary but you can't read the definitions till you know them before hand.

Encyclopedia:
1. a book or set of books containing articles on various topics, usually in alphabetical arrangement, covering all branches of knowledge or, less commonly, all aspects of one subject.
 

Offline Walter

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Re: If Guts takes off the Armor of the Berserker, will he die?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2007, 08:40:26 AM »
wow that's rude ...
If you think that's rude, you really aren't going to like this: Fuck off.
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