Episode 287

What a beautiful, sad and somber episode. I kinda expected a bit more of a speculation about the last panel, but then, I am not sure what to say myself.

Guts questioning his goals? Is he thinking about trying to let go of the past or at least of hopes about going back? But what else does he have? I am dying to find out what decisions he will reach and what this foreshadows. That even though Caska will be cured they won't recapture past relationship (not that I think she's going to hate him or anything)? I also wonder what will push Guts to keep fighting the forces of darkness. He seems to be letting go a little, or maybe it's just me.

I don't see Farnese going crazy because of Caska, either, she lived through much worse rejections before (her father), and it's not like she had some substantial hopes before either. Besides, she's positioned nicely with two men who love/have crush on her in different way for a storyline not involving turning-into-monster-and-devouring-everyone sort of thing. I guess when Caska will no longer need her help she'll already be useful as a magic user. Who I really wonder about is Serpico. If Farnese moves out from under his protection, what his new goal in life will be.

Cruella said:

I also wonder what will push Guts to keep fighting the forces of darkness. He seems to be letting go a little, or maybe it's just me.

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i noticed this as well, he seems so sombre and sad now; if he lost caska (mentally talking) what would he have to fight for? revenge again?

Cruella said:

Guts questioning his goals? Is he thinking about trying to let go of the past or at least of hopes about going back? But what else does he have? I am dying to find out what decisions he will reach and what this foreshadows. That even though Casca will be cured they won't recapture past relationship (not that I think she's going to hate him or anything)? I also wonder what will push Guts to keep fighting the forces of darkness. He seems to be letting go a little, or maybe it's just me.

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Of course there's no way to know for sure, but I think he's mostly just depressed. For the first time in years he has nothing urgent to do or think about, he's almost reached his destination and it seems that he's apprehending the future and thinking "what now?" In a way, since the Eclipse he's never stopped running forward, even after realizing his error in leaving Casca alone. Now he's stopped, and looking back on his life I think he is melancholic. Now I'm going to be a lot more speculative, but I have this idea that once he'll have reached Elfhelm, revenge alone might not be enough to get him to decide to go back to Midland and confront Griffith. I think the danger the God Hand poses to the world as a whole could be as much of a deciding factor (and not just to him either but to his friends as well).

Cruella said:

I don't see Farnese going crazy because of Casca, either, she lived through much worse rejections before (her father), and it's not like she had some substantial hopes before either. Besides, she's positioned nicely with two men who love/have crush on her in different way for a storyline not involving turning-into-monster-and-devouring-everyone sort of thing. I guess when Casca will no longer need her help she'll already be useful as a magic user.

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Yeah, and besides I believe she really cares for Casca, so I don't think she could be that bitter about it.

Cruella said:

Who I really wonder about is Serpico. If Farnese moves out from under his protection, what his new goal in life will be.

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That's a good question, one I've posted about several times before in the past. So far, of all people in the group, he's the one that's been the less inclined to evolve and find some personal goals. He's only been travelling with them because of Farnese. Meanwhile, she has grown a lot and found both a purpose and a place among new friends. As time passes by she needs him less and less and there's a point where he's going to have to think about what he wants to do with his own life, because their relationship won't stay the same forever. I think this trip will be the occasion for him to start thinking about it, since he'll probably have to take a decision once in Elfhelm.

For the first time in years he has nothing urgent to do or think about, he's almost reached his destination and it seems that he's apprehending the future and thinking "what now?"

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Yes,and I really hope that the author is not in the same situation.Thinking a new goal for Guts right now must be really hard.

I personally can't picture Guts as savior of the world.I mean,he eventually help others but not as his main objective.

Baldulf said:

Yes,and I really hope that the author is not in the same situation.Thinking a new goal for Guts right now must be really hard.

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There's absolutely no reason to think he would be.

Interesting point that the only time that Gutts has felt anything resembling peace in his life was with the Hawks, and even then only short intervals between campains. Since they were destroyed, he was thrust again into a succession of years where every minute was a bloody fight for mere survival, everything he did was to keep himself, and later Casca, alive.

Now, again, he's found a brief respite from the constand struggle and pain. It must be quite an alien feeling to him - the certainty that he'd be facing another life and death battle at any moment, for the first time in a long time, just isn't there any more, and for the first time in a long time, he has time to think beyond the next day's survival.

I get the ideas people are getting concerning Guts (example: He Might change goals/uncertain/etc) But honestly it never popped up in my mind while reading it. Simply put I saw John the Fisherman on his boat reflecting (as Az said) in a rather "depressed" manner. It didn't occur to me ironically there is a "What's the point/revenge worth it?" factor Guts might get once he's at Elfhelm. As for Casca and the after, if she "reverts" question, um, just a "shot in the dark", but the DC game is considered canon, and in that she recognizes him and everything and views what has happened as a bad/weird dream, something like that. So if there's any truth in the latter, it'll be somewhat along the same lines, well...it did happen before Guts got a little beasty with her.

Anyways, was a great episode, and again nice to see Guts out of the berserker armor. Body is uber fucked up now though =/

Looking to the DC game is a good call for some insight as to how it might be handled. I think the reason that doesn't get considered more is because Miura hasn't really acknowledged the events of the DC game within the story save for a brief mandragora cameo, and that moment of Casca clarity would be very important to Guts and probably come up if it was really supposed to be part of the story (so it's sort of a catch 22). I would look to the game for input like I would the prototype more than considering it truly part of the continuity; evidence of how Miura has done such material in the past.

Baldulf said:

I myself can easily imagine the former self of the Skull Knight (and you must admit that the chances that he is Gaiseric are very very high) as a despotic ruler who only founds the value of human life when he lost his own.

But I repeat,this is only my opinion.

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I just had to provide some commentary on this, as I strongly agree with Aaz on this point. A "story" is only as true as it is to the storyteller as well as the reader. Now that may sound wacky, but what I mean is that the "King Gaiseric" story is only possibly true to Charlotte because that's what she knows to be true. To further back up Aaz's statements, seriously take a look at some of the elements in the story.

The Skull Knight character himself, constantly struggles against the Godhand, and provides aid whenever able to Guts and co., but he isn't their crutch. He, as Aaz pointed, also has a previous relationship with Flora(at the very least they were good friends) a selfish, tyrant of a king, the Gaiseric in the story, wouldn't possibly care for a reclusive witch.

The "four angels" implied in the story, I'm set on them being the godhand(who were 4 at the time, I believe either Casca or Judeau made note of this variant), which would IMMEDIATELY negate the implications of them being agents of good taking down Gaiseric's evil empire. The godhand are pure manifestations of evil, and they could want Gaiseric out of the picture for any number of reasons. I honestly believe that if Gaiseric was true to the story, then the godhand would actually relish his existence, and simply let him do as he would. I think they'd more likely look on him as a ally/tool to use rather than get rid of.

Skull Knight's opposed the godhand for 1000 years according to Zodd, which was the same time that Gaiseric's empire fell, if they're one in the same, and the story is true, why would he be wasting so much time with Guts and the others? If he was just some petty tyrant, looking for revenge, wouldn't he have taken whatever action he's planning already? I just honestly don't see him as some wacky mastermind manipulating the good guys so he can take out some other bad guys.

Just my take on it.

Manji said:

As for Casca and the after, if she "reverts" question, um, just a "shot in the dark", but the DC game is considered canon, and in that she recognizes him and everything and views what has happened as a bad/weird dream, something like that. So if there's any truth in the latter, it'll be somewhat along the same lines...

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I don't think you can make a black or white argument about this using such a flimsy crutch. Similar to Griff, I always saw that scene in the DC game as just a brief glimpse of a lucid Casca for the purposes of the DC game. I doubt her actions in that scene can speak for how she'll act when ultimately be cured in Elfhelm. For that to be fully-realized, she'll likely have to go through heavy psychological trauma to overcome those mental barriers, and who knows who she'll be after that.

I do agree I think she'll recognize Guts ultimately though. I'm just saying, it won't be as easy as 1,2,3, LUCID SANITY, as it was with the mandragora solution.

Black_Devil said:

The Skull Knight character himself, constantly struggles against the Godhand, and provides aid whenever able to Guts and co., but he isn't their crutch. He, as Aaz pointed, also has a previous relationship with Flora(at the very least they were good friends) a selfish, tyrant of a king, the Gaiseric in the story, wouldn't possibly care for a reclusive witch.

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Black_Devil said:

I honestly believe that if Gaiseric was true to the story, then the godhand would actually relish his existence, and simply let him do as he would. I think they'd more likely look on him as a ally/tool to use rather than get rid of.

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I think you should leave room for unknown. In this case the events that possibly led Gaiseric to become Skull Knight. For starters, something or someone associated with Skull Knight (or even Skull Knight himself) had to have been sacrificed in order for him to be familiar with the Godhand members themselves. Remember the 'angels' mentioned by Charlotte.

So even if he was a tyrant, after dealing with The Godhand and losing his kingdom (if in fact SK is Gaiseric, which he most likely is), I'm sure he took something away from the experince and learned the error of his ways.

I don't think he is a tool of the Godhand. Why would the Godhand use him as a tool. That'd be like using a chainsaw that has a desire to carve you up. You follow me? No, Skull Knight was def. fucked by the Godhand. He tried fighting them, eventually met up with Flora (and he gave her the time of day because with the aid of a true magic user his odds against the Godhand were better), she helped him out, they got close, ultimately he bled to death wearing the armor Guts now wears. How he is 'living' in the his armor now is anyones guess (Hanafubuku anyone?)

Walter said:

I'm just saying, it won't be as easy as 1,2,3, LUCID SANITY, as it was with the mandragora solution.

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I agree. I think that was done simply for a gamer who wasn't totally famaliar with the whole story of Berserk. So if you were just playing it casually the scene would set up an "Oh she knew him, ah fuck she's crazy again, that's a shame" type moment.

I'm thinking curing Casca will be no easy task. She obv. won't be left behind at Elhhelm becuase Guts vowed he'd never abandon her again and as was stated curing her won't take an episode. Maybe, the Elf king will cure her than it may take sometime for all the pieces to come abck together. (Scenario: Elf King does his thing...no visible effects...everyone looks supremely let down...then slowly on the voyage back...she begins the process of regaining her heart.) Just a thought.

Go back to volume 10 and look at the episodes where the story is told; theres an abandoned city (maybe bigger than a city? also, greek architecture?) with piles of corpses ALL with brands on their foreheads.
i find this so stange:
A) all on the forehead? the hawks got their brands in all sorts of different areas
B)why are there corpses at all? surely the apostles would have eaten the sacrificed?

i'm certain that this is a vital key to solving the skullknights mystery

I don't know if this was brought up in the thread already, so I'm sorry if I'm only repeating a tired topic, but did anyone else find the first few panels of the second page a bit odd? Guts' vision changes/darkens while he's watching Casca (as if his eyesight is deteriorating) and he seems to react to it before Roderick walks up. Am I just misinterpreting the panels...?

This episode was so sad... I really dunno what to say about it. =| Even though I'm really looking forward to seeing the party land in Elfhelm, and possibly seeing Casca regain her sanity, I have a foreboding feeling about it now. Then again... I guess it is naive to expect anything "happy" from Miura.

Waychel said:

I don't know if this was brought up in the thread already, so I'm sorry if I'm only repeating a tired topic, but did anyone else find the first few panels of the second page a bit odd? Guts' vision changes/darkens while he's watching Casca (as if his eyesight is deteriorating) and he seems to react to it before Roderick walks up. Am I just misinterpreting the panels...?

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You should probably read the thread. Guts' vision, and his other senses, are getting worse due to the Berserk's Armor. If he continues using the armor, eventually he'll lose them altogether.

Alright guys, this isn't the thread to discuss Gaiseric theories... We've got a ton like this in Speculation Nation. And it's impossible to think of a way that'd make everything work with the information we currently have, there will always be holes in the theories. Examples:

Black_Devil said:

The "four angels" implied in the story, I'm set on them being the godhand(who were 4 at the time, I believe either Casca or Judeau made note of this variant)

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It's Casca that says so, and she's in no position to correct someone with an actual education, so there's basically no certainty on this.

Black_Devil said:

I honestly believe that if Gaiseric was true to the story, then the godhand would actually relish his existence, and simply let him do as he would. I think they'd more likely look on him as a ally/tool to use rather than get rid of.

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Just like Griffith is doing with Ganishka!

Proj2501 said:

For starters, something or someone associated with Skull Knight (or even Skull Knight himself) had to have been sacrificed in order for him to be familiar with the Godhand members themselves.

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He could have witnessed the events without being sacrificed himself. Flora wasn't sacrificed and she knew quite a lot. Just like you said yourself, leave room for the unknown.

Proj2501 said:

So even if he was a tyrant, after dealing with The Godhand and losing his kingdom (if in fact SK is Gaiseric, which he most likely is), I'm sure he took something away from the experince and learned the error of his ways.

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His empire, not kingdom, and there's no real reason to think he'd learn anything from it and suddenly become a good man. That's just pure speculation here.

Proj2501 said:

No, Skull Knight was def. fucked by the Godhand. He tried fighting them, eventually met up with Flora (and he gave her the time of day because with the aid of a true magic user his odds against the Godhand were better), she helped him out, they got close, ultimately he bled to death wearing the armor Guts now wears.

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Again, pure speculation without anything backing it up. How do you know he didn't know Flora before encountering the God Hand? And the rest? When you say he tried fighting the God Hand, you mean he traveled through layers of the world all by himself? Or maybe the God Hand roamed the earth at the time? By the way, since a member is born every 216 years, he must have been battling different members than the current ones, right? It goes on and on.

Proj2501 said:

I agree. I think that was done simply for a gamer who wasn't totally famaliar with the whole story of Berserk.

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Well then I'm afraid you're wrong... You're aware that the game's scenario was written by Miura and that it was originally planned to be more or less integrated into the story, right? That it hinted at elements that had yet to happen in the manga when the game came out? There was a note on the side of an episode saying when it had taken place compared to events in the volumes and all. Griffith is right to point out that the game's storyline ended up not being incorporated or even mentioned in the manga, but it's still not material you can completely discard as if it had no value at all. It wasn't just a trick for non-Berserk readers (who weren't exactly the main target of the game).

Aazealh said:

Well then I'm afraid you're wrong... You're aware that the game's scenario was written by Miura and that it was originally planned to be more or less integrated into the story, right? That it hinted at elements that had yet to happen in the manga when the game came out? There was a note on the side of an episode saying when it had taken place compared to events in the volumes and all. Griffith is right to point out that the game's storyline ended up not being incorporated or even mentioned in the manga, but it's still not material you can completely discard as if it had no value at all. It wasn't just a trick for non-Berserk readers (who weren't exactly the main target of the game).

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I actually wasn't aware of that. Good stuff to know tho, you learn something new everyday.

Aaz,

I could have sworn that it was Judeau who mentioned the 4 angels. When I go back to look I can't make out where the bubble is coming from. How can we tell?

Jaze1618 said:

Aaz,

I could have sworn that it was Judeau who mentioned the 4 angels. When I go back to look I can't make out where the bubble is coming from. How can we tell?

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Casca's the only one drawn as speaking in that panel..

Jaze1618 said:

Aaz,

I could have sworn that it was Judeau who mentioned the 4 angels. When I go back to look I can't make out where the bubble is coming from. How can we tell?

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Could it have been an error? I think I remember Judeau saying this in the anime.

Jaze1618 said:

I could have sworn that it was Judeau who mentioned the 4 angels. When I go back to look I can't make out where the bubble is coming from. How can we tell?

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Like CnC said, the bubble points to her in the panel. It's a little hard to see but if you're careful you should be able to notice it.

SaiyajinNoOuji-Trading Cards said:

Could it have been an error? I think I remember Judeau saying this in the anime.

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That scene isn't in the anime.

Apropos of nothing...

Perhaps Guts will be hitting Shierke up for some lessons in the future.

Aazealh said:

It's not an illusion, it's just that he couldn't actually grip her wrist since he tried to catch her with his artificial forearm. He could reach out to her and put his hand around her wrist, but obviously he couldn't close it and hold her.

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Then why does Guts has a shocked look? Was it because he wasnt expecting his artificial arm could actually grip her right? Or?

Smith said:

Then why does Guts has a shocked look?

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Because he couldn't grip Casca's hand and she was still FALLING INTO THE FRIKKEN OCEAN.

Smith said:

Then why does Guts has a shocked look? Was it because he wasnt expecting his artificial arm could actually grip her right? Or?

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jeez, Smith. Just, wow....

for the last time, the artificial arm DIDN'T grab Casca at ALL. Thats the fuckin' point.

Smith said:

Then why does Guts has a shocked look? Was it because he wasnt expecting his artificial arm could actually grip her right? Or?

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and if you look through all his memories in this episode- whenever Casca is falling, he saves her with his left hand (i doubt this was a coincidence), so it was such a reflex to use his left hand that for a moment he forgot all about it being prosthetic, and then it came back to bite him in the ass.

i must admit, i am curious how guts can hold his sword/ close his fist (like when he was punching the iron chain knights in V16/17), but couldnt close it when Casca was falling? i guess you need to take the whole "magnet in his palm" thing with a pinch of salt...otherwise, every time he closed his fist, he would never be able to open it (its got enough power to keep his DS steady, so its gotta be a powerful magnet...)