Author Topic: Episode 288  (Read 36230 times)

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Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #75 on: July 31, 2007, 12:07:14 AM »
This is where I disagree thought CnC but part of the reason is due to what GNM mentioned. Character development has been not at its apex because he carrying a lot of characters along so he has to make sure that he gives time to everyone without forgetting about anyone. This causes the character development to be uneven and fragmented. There is good and bad to having a complex plot with a plethora of characters

Explain what is uneven and fragmented?  Are you just not reading it?  We just had major revelations by Guts, Farnese, and Schierke in the past 2 episodes.  There was nothing uneven or fragmented about it.  Was it just too much material for you?  3 characters?

Do you realize in the past 10 years of reading there has been someone rehashing the same damn argument as you?  Somebody decides to read the entire series then starts complaining about pacing when it becomes obvious that a new volume isn't released every week.  They also slam Miura for introducing Magic, Trolls, the berserk armor, not being at Elfhelm in the next episode, and now Pirates all along the way (claiming its not true to the "original" story).  The argument holds about as much weight as it did then.  I suggest you drop it and just enjoy the ride.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 12:13:06 AM by CnC »
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Offline Sparnage

Re: Episode 288
« Reply #76 on: July 31, 2007, 05:57:25 AM »
If Sparnage was being sarcastic too then it was too subtle for me.

No I wasnít being sarcastic at all. Deep down I know nothing can be done about the pacing. Itís simple supply and demand. Whether he is using a majority of his time working on nothing but Berserk, or he is enjoying having more of time off these days knowing he is valuable enough to YA and the readers to justify it. Either way itís just the way it is.

Regardless I wouldnít want him to dumb it down, including less details than what was intended for the sake of making it move quicker. I may not be able to appreciate it as much now for reasons I said in the previous post, but once Berserk is finished it will be far better for it, and thereíll be a time when we can all read from start to finish at our own pace, and itíll likely be awesome.

Quote
This post is probably out of place. If you like then please move it another forum or delete it. As long as you all read it one time right now. I am fine with whatever you decide. All apologies Folks!

IMO I think it's fine to express something you're displeased about, Berserk or otherwise if theres a reason for it. I don't think anything is without flaws.
 
Personally I donít think the pirate situation being an issue. Ok the current pirate antagonist is fairly stereotypical but thatís fine, he wonít likely play a large role in the story.
One thing I have always liked about Berserk and some other mangas is they are willing to adapt and change important story elements far more, as opposed to remaining in the story comfort zone. This also seems to be the case for the pacing of the story, comparing the Golden age to more recent volumes.

Offline A.C

Re: Episode 288
« Reply #77 on: July 31, 2007, 07:31:27 AM »
personally i love these episodes.

and didn't i tell you there would be pirates  :guts:

Offline Tanma

Re: Episode 288
« Reply #78 on: July 31, 2007, 11:32:18 AM »
i agree completely with what GNM and aazealh have said.  This level of quality takes fucking time, people.  This isnt your kindergarden level of manga.  Quite frankly, those of you complaining about the spacing between releases have to keep in mind that your getting this for FREE.  Saiya isnt under any obligation to scan and post this.  Really, hearing people complain about pacing is infuriating.

P.S ..  Buy the fucking manga.

Well, it really seems Miura cares more about the draw quality than letting us know about the history itself. What I trully like and care about Berserk is the historyline.

But you're right, the only ones that have the right to complain are the real consumers who purchase the manga (and this forum is not the place to do it).

The manga will make its twenty anniversary in two years. Miura is still young, and I hope he stay alive for the next twenty years, or have a complete book about Berserk prepared if something bad happens. No one other than him would continue this history so brilliantly.

Going back to the topic, I have no doubt the pirate boss is an apostle.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 11:41:27 AM by Tanma »
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #79 on: July 31, 2007, 11:55:15 AM »
Actually I disagree. I would say that this story line is continuation since the end of Volume 26 otherwise why go back to 22 and not all the way back to volume 1.

And not surprisingly, you're wrong. Maybe you should re-read the manga or at least check your facts before getting in such arguments? Just a friendly suggestion so what you say could make sense. Their journey started in volume 22. I don't know what you can disagree on here, it's a straight fact. Had you said the end of volume 23 I could have more or less understood, since that's when we get the first mention of Vritannis. But 26? At the end of volume 26 Guts was in a raging fight with Grunberd at Flora's place. Do you know why they were in that location? Because it was on the way to Vritannis. Why were they going to Vritannis? To get a ship to Elfhelm. When did they decide to go to Elfhelm and started journeying? In volume 22, after Zodd destroyed the cave Guts intended to live in with Casca. Little things like this are part of why it's hard to take you seriously.

Still we are on Vol. 33 and that is 7 if you take my opinion or 11 if you take yours. I use the manga itself as the basis. Take any set of 7 volumes and try writing down all that has happened in them. In my opinion, less has happened in the last 7 then probably any other set.

Ok, so now since you're aware that your "opinion" is "wrong", let's consider those 10 volumes and a half. Actually I agree with Griff (surprise, surprise), they can easily be seen as composing the most eventful part of the story yet. The storyline has never been so rich, plentiful and detailed. Frankly I'd like to see you try to tell us how less events are supposed to have taken place in the Millennium Falcon arc than in the others. Well, truth be told I don't really would, the point's just that you'd fail.

Look Aaz. I don't care if the pirate's character was planned in 2000 or in 1960.
Miura is perfect. He has things laid out things perfectly for the next 30 years. He is totally impertinent to any going ons of the 'real' world. Nothing affects him be it movies, books, pop culture, politics, wars.

You see, right there, that's what makes your post stupid. You're just contradicting yourself while refusing to hear what others tell you, refusing to understand the information they spend their time trying to inculcate you. AND trying (failing) to be a witty smartass. This all really makes a poor argument for yourself and your oh so valuable opinion to the rest of the world. You insinuate that Miura includes this sea trip in the story because of the success of Pirates of the Caribbean, following Griff's mocking post. You are told that it's just not that way, and that the sea journey was supposed to take place before you even heard about the manga. Then you say you don't care, only to come back on it right away to bitterly whine and deform/exaggerate the situation in an attempt to make yourself look less bad and somehow justify your assertions.

To me he just doesn't fit in very well with the Manga. He is too stupid to be taken seroiusly and been given much too screen time to just be a 'filler'. If he is just a tool to help develop the characters around Guts like Roderick then there are other ways to do that too as have been done in the past volumes with other characters.

Aahhh, finally a true opinion and not just a flawed assertion. An opinion that showcases your bloated ego, lack of good taste and ability to enjoy simple things, but that's a good start. I could go on and on about past characters (from Adon, already mentioned, to Zepec and more), but that'd probably be lost to you and your iron convictions. Still, it's interesting to note that you haven't changed much, not in the way you think nor the way you argue, since the last time you complained about Azan. Remember that? Griff had corrected you then too. Some things just never change I guess.

I don't want to see an apostle in every episode but having a sea battle with HIM doesn't really lift Roderick to the level of an awesome NAVAL Commander. To me the the whole purpose of the last 6-7 pages of this episode was that Roderick the "Prince of the Sea" but maybe I am wrong. Maybe there will be a fierce battle in the next episode.

How do you know that actually? Roderick isn't a particularly gifted fighter on land, but he's exceptional on the sea, now we know that. The pirate boss could very well be in the same situation. He certainly seems to have seen quite a few fights in his life. And while the attack was used to reveal the width of Roderick's talent on the sea, maybe you should take a clue from the episode title (Sea Battle (1)) concerning what will take place in the next one. Again, just a friendly suggestion.

my criticism should be sent to Miura and not posted on this forum, as the people, no matter if they belong to the interstice or the abyss, are in the end all just readers. They can only DISCUSS not actually affect any change.

Actually I'm not sure your "criticism" as you put it is worth showing to anyone. Miura probably the least of all. It's nice to see how confident you are about it though, you know, like if you could send it to Miura (which you actually could, if you made an effort, hell I actually DO send him letters myself) he'd operate changes accordingly. Maybe you could become the scenarist for Berserk? Cut off useless parts and go straight to the point, make the changes you've been waiting for all this time! God knows you're the most fitted one for the task, your insight has always proven to be so wise and deep.

More seriously, I thought the reason you posted your thoughts here was precisely because we discuss things. That's always been the whole point of this place. However you don't seem very intent on discussing anything apparently. Despite your talk of HUGE FANS that bring you so much information and whatnot, we're all, and I in particular, bitter eccentrics that won't take in your golden word, however rational and based on solid ground it might be.

So I have taken heed and this is hopefully the last time. In future you won't hear any criticism from me and you can live in your world where Miura is perfect. He has things laid out things perfectly for the next 30 years. He is totally impertinent to any going ons of the 'real' world. Nothing affects him be it movies, books, pop culture, politics, wars. He works night and day without need for rest or family-time and he is obviously faultless.

One thing's sure, in all the worlds except maybe the one in your head, Miura's far above your person in all matters and most of all as far as Berserk is concerned. Sorry if saying so shatters your delusions of grandeur.

Lastly, I understood that GNM was being sarcastic in his first post but I can take his criticism and actually look forward to them because he imbues it with humor or sarcasm.

Well as long as you don't mind people making fun of you, I believe that's fine with everyone. I don't think you really got it though, otherwise you wouldn't have replied like you did. Sorry, I'm afraid there's no real issue for you here.

Whenever I read your posts, the image that pops up in my mind is ummm of Mozgus.

Blah blah blah, ohhh what a meany I have been! Meanwhile your passive-aggressive behavior has really been Ok, if not gone completely unnoticed, don't worry.

Why don't you take it as a complement that people like me rely on your's, GNM, CnC, Sparnage, Walter's, and Saiyi,  (and others) opinion to get informed. But your attitude in particular just makes me not want to read whatever words of wisdom you have to say and frankly it even drives me away from the Manga itself. Be cool man. Take it easy.

First off, Saiya's name is abbreviated with an 'a' at the end. As in "saiyajin". Make an effort to write his name properly please. Second, who said I don't take it as a compliment that people rely on what I say for information? I sure do, and I'm glad to be able to inform people. Not with my opinion, but with facts. That difference's always been difficult to make for some people. In any case, I don't really see the relation with anything here. You're certainly not relying on what I'm telling you, nor GNM or Walter or anybody, to make this post. Rather you're going against everybody else. If you can't read it from me I'd expect you would from Griff, but like every other time, you aren't. I think you have to realize the truth, which is that beyond those sad ad hominem arguments you're throwing at me out of the blue, you just don't want to listen to what anybody says as long as it doesn't fit your conceited views.

And please, don't make me laugh. I'm driving you away from the manga? A guy on Internet, on a forum you post on once in a blue moon? What kind of a joke is this? You must really not like it so much to begin with then. Hmm in fact, I guess you really don't like it so much considering your posts so far, so scratch what I said. I'm curious though, if I command you to stop reading Berserk and forget about it for the rest of your life, is it going to work? Just trying to save other members the trouble of answering such posts in the future. And really, be cool? Taking it easy? I don't know man, I'm taking this episode real easy, enjoying the funny pirates and cool naval battle, you know, stuff like that. My wife could tell you how I laugh reading posts like yours, and then just quietly sigh while answering them. And also how I can enjoy episodes even when I'm surprised by their content. I don't think I'm the one that needs to relax and take it easy here.

If Sparnage was being sarcastic too then it was too subtle for me.

He wasn't being sarcastic as he himself said, but he was talking about the pacing of the prepublication of episodes in Young Animal, like Griff was, which is from your own admission "NOT" what you were talking about. See? You guys really weren't talking about the same thing at all. You were confused. It's alright though, it's not the first time. Anyway, since we're talking about Sparnage, I'd like to congratulate him in an awkward, third-person-talk-while-the-person-is-present way. I'm not afraid to say that I'm proud of Sparnage, because while his first posts here were quite a sight to behold, he proved himself to be a good member over time, someone whose opinions and ideas can and should be respected. I wish more members were like him.

Okay GNM, so I agree that part of the reason why it seems that not a lot has HAPPENED is because there we haven't been given the satisfaction of a story line coming to a conclusion as many did in the first 20 Volumes.

So basically you want a dumbed down story, with simpler plots that are shorter and resolved in more obvious ways, and simpler characters? Also with less characters, and a world of a smaller scale, more simplistic. Your criticism is noted. On another note, you can see closure in a lot of parts of the Millennium Falcon arc. The village of Enoch, Flora, the departure from the hill of swords and Guts' decision to stay with Casca, Farnese mostly coming to terms with herself, then her return and departure from her family, Vritannis, etc.

There wasn't much more closure in the earlier volumes as far as I can tell, even including the Golden Age arc which was a flashback and thus inherently called for closure.

May be that is why seeing the pirate made me roll my eyes :schierke: because I thought that at least we were done with HIS character but I guess we weren't.

Yeah man, he's making a quick comeback only to shortly disappear ever after, what an outrage! So now characters can appear again after being absent for a while? Urrrrrgggghhhh, that's it Berserk is FINISHED, it's all going downhill I say! Massive eyerolling going on here guys!

I think you should take it easy, just be cool man. :guts:

BTW, you haven't always been so eager to see storylines completed and characters never showing up again:

Speaking of which I wonder if the old characters from the golden age will be brought back like Foss and Raban. And then there is Theresia who swore to kill Guts...

It's really just too bad it's not Theresia leading that pirate ship, she could be trying to take her revenge on Guts at last! That'd have been awesome! Goddamn, when will Miura finally conclude this part of the story? Maybe he has forgotten his priorities? That IS what is the main storyline. I can't wait for it forever, I mean I've been complaining about it for 5 years on the Internet but I'll really stop reading someday! Probably just before buying the manga that I always said I'd buy later.

Seriously, who was more fitting for a short naval battle than that character? Would have creating a new one been a better idea? You're free to think so. I don't, and many others seem to share that opinion. It's all cool really. If you think that's the end of Berserk's greatness, feel free to stop reading it, we can't stop you. Only oppose arguments to what you're saying to try to convince you.

As far as Adon is concerned if I was an SK member when his character was introduced or discussed then I probably would have said the same thing.

And what about now? Do you think he is a stupid character, that he doesn't have his place in Berserk, and that the story slid down from its best moments when he was introduced? Why do you read it then?

Character development has been not at its apex because he carrying a lot of characters along so he has to make sure that he gives time to everyone without forgetting about anyone.

On the contrary, I think character development has been at its apex recently. With the possible exception of Guts, no character in Berserk has evolved as much as Farnese did since her introduction. Characters like the old Hawks (Pippin, Judo...) never really had any development or evolution. You want to know the character that truly lost focus as far as individual development's concerned when Guts started journeying with more people? Puck. A personal favorite of yours if I'm not mistaken. I have no doubt you can't wait until the group reaches Elfhelm and he starts getting more screentime. Then Berserk can become good again, right? RIGHT? Sorry MaN, you're just fun to mess with. =)

Well, it really seems Miura cares more about the draw quality than letting us know about the history itself.

Don't think he does. Not sure what makes you say it "really seems" so.

Going back to the topic, I have no doubt the pirate boss is an apostle.

If so you're definitely wrong. No way he's an apostle.

Offline Tanma

Re: Episode 288
« Reply #80 on: July 31, 2007, 12:43:31 PM »
Don't think he does. Not sure what makes you say it "really seems" so.

With 10 or 12 chapters per year recently, it's pretty obvious.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #81 on: July 31, 2007, 01:25:33 PM »
With 10 or 12 chapters per year recently, it's pretty obvious.

They're called episodes. And you're aware that the long break we had recently was exceptional, right? That's why there were only 13 episodes released last year. We'll have more this year, and hopefully even more in 2008. In any case, that doesn't make anything obvious, other than the fact Miura's taking the time he needs to produce good work. You know, most of his breaks are to work on the story and plan the details of future events.

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #82 on: July 31, 2007, 01:27:37 PM »
Well, it really seems Miura cares more about the draw quality than letting us know about the history itself. What I trully like and care about Berserk is the historyline.

Please refrain from assuming Miura's priorities, theres nothing that points to this.

But you're right, the only ones that have the right to complain are the real consumers who purchase the manga (and this forum is not the place to do it).

Well I think the problem is the legitimacy of the complaints rather than whether or not this is the place for it.  But obviously, we should all be real consumers. :)

Going back to the topic, I have no doubt the pirate boss is an apostle.

Yea... uh,  I highly doubt that.   Schierke would have likely noticed the od when she encountered him last, not to mention he was beaten pretty easily  :schierke:
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Online Griffith

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #83 on: July 31, 2007, 06:53:35 PM »
Going back to the topic, I have no doubt the pirate boss is an apostle.
Schierke called Guts... she must be sensed that there are more than just (human) pirates in that place...

If at first you totally fail...

Anyway, I too am sure that the wacky pirate Captain, who's missing a limb, could barely defeat Isidro, was tossed like nothing by Azan, and for whom there's no indication given that he's an Apostle... is truly the master Apostle of the seas! Like many Apostles we've seen, his evil Apostle identity has been kept secret for dramatic purposes; it's never obvious every time, and very appropriate to play this guessing game with every new character, especially at this point in the story, not infantile at all. He's so powerful in fact, he was able to hide his Apostleness from Schierke and Guts (probably a new type of covert Apostle), but not from you, our most observant reader! It's pretty obvious; like that Puck, possibly a secret Apostle himself, is a traitor who's going to turn on the group in Elfhelm!

You heard it here first, people! :isidro:

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #84 on: July 31, 2007, 09:21:37 PM »
I like the Cut of your jib!
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Offline Lithrael

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #85 on: July 31, 2007, 11:29:44 PM »
Quote from: Tanma
I have no doubt the pirate boss is an apostle.
Quote from: Aazealh
No way he's an apostle.
pirate cap'n
Yarr, that's right, more's the pity, I sacrificed this timber o' mine AND me best old first mate to two muskets full o' scurvy privateers' grapeshot and got naught for 'em but a pity-lapdance from a kind-hearted tavern wench who saw the manly tears I were pourin' into me pint o' grog.  Haharr!
/pirate cap'n

Offline handsome rakshas

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #86 on: August 01, 2007, 12:12:13 AM »
pirate cap'n
Yarr, that's right, more's the pity, I sacrificed this timber o' mine AND me best old first mate to two muskets full o' scurvy privateers' grapeshot and got naught for 'em but a pity-lapdance from a kind-hearted tavern wench who saw the manly tears I were pourin' into me pint o' grog.  Haharr!
/pirate cap'n

LOL! You are a hilarious gal!

Offline Proj2501

Re: Episode 288
« Reply #87 on: August 01, 2007, 12:17:18 AM »
Alright. I've fuckin' had it with all of you pompous assholes! You all need to go back and re-read past volumes. You make fun of poor Tanma and mock his 'pirate boss apostle' theory. Open your eyes you fools!
It's crystal clear...THE PIRATE BOSS IS AN APOSTLE!



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Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #88 on: August 01, 2007, 12:18:46 AM »
I can't tell if your serious or not cause if you are posting a picture I cant see it! Someone help me!  :judo:
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Offline Tanma

Re: Episode 288
« Reply #89 on: August 01, 2007, 03:25:56 AM »
Look at the face of that bastard, he IS an apostle.   :miura:

« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 03:34:21 AM by Tanma »
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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #90 on: August 01, 2007, 04:28:31 AM »
Sorry Captain, but you're not, you're just a creepy old pirate. If you were an Apostle, or any kind of supernatural being, Schierke, as a magic user, would have known right away, as would Sonia, and even Isidro and Mule would have sensed the intimidating, monstrous presence that Apostles convey. As a matter of fact, you probably wouldn't have engaged Mule in combat at all, since he is the fellow servant of your divine lord and master, Griffith, whom all Apostles naturally desire to serve, even a stout rebel like Ganishka. So, if you were an Apostle, I'd have to ask, why aren't you serving Griffith, like the other Apostles of the world? Oh wait, I need not ask, because you aren't an Apostle, that's why you aren't. That's why nobody sensed it. That's why nobody said so. That's why you didn't make it clear or even exhibit any Apostle traits or power. I guess it was pretty obvious.

Sorry you had to find out this way, Captain, though had you been paying attention for the last 10 volumes, these facts would have been as obvious to you as they are to us. But, that's a pirate for ya. Now set sail, and be wary of dragons on your mystical journey!

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #91 on: August 01, 2007, 10:56:10 AM »

Most def an apostle.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Proj2501

Re: Episode 288
« Reply #92 on: August 01, 2007, 01:37:42 PM »
Look at the face of that bastard, he IS an apostle.   :miura:

Now I just have to ask you Tanma once and for all. Are you being serious? If you're not then I'm just not gettin your sense of humor. His face? Really? It's time to come clean. From that picture I posted...HIS FACE, makes you think he's an apostle? Tanma, have you suffered any head trauma as of late?

What then, maybe he's got a beherit hidden under his eyepatch? This redunkulousness needs to end.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 02:10:40 PM by Proj2501 »

Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #93 on: August 01, 2007, 01:56:22 PM »
Remember when people thought the pirate was the dead midland king? 


...I miss those days.
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Offline Proj2501

Re: Episode 288
« Reply #94 on: August 01, 2007, 02:12:08 PM »
Remember when people thought the pirate was the dead midland king? 


...I miss those days.

Really? I must've missed those days. Yeah, that's just an awesome theory, just like Skullknight being Guts from the future. Lame-o.  :schierke:

Offline Skeleton

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #95 on: August 01, 2007, 02:54:35 PM »
Remember when people thought the pirate was the dead midland king? 


...I miss those days.

I think it's pretty obvious he's Roderick's future self.  :troll:

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #96 on: August 01, 2007, 04:58:10 PM »

Most def an apostle.

Well, out of context, he does look like a horrible drooling monster in that panel. Mid-transformation!? =)

Offline Bowie-Spawan

Re: Episode 288
« Reply #97 on: August 01, 2007, 05:38:24 PM »
Remember when people thought the pirate was the dead midland king? 


...I miss those days.

Nuh-uh, he's quite obviously Midland King's long lost twin brother.
He was ashamed of him, that's why he wasn't mentioned.


 :troll:
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Offline Tanma

Re: Episode 288
« Reply #98 on: August 01, 2007, 05:44:14 PM »
Now I just have to ask you Tanma once and for all. Are you being serious? If you're not then I'm just not gettin your sense of humor. His face? Really? It's time to come clean. From that picture I posted...HIS FACE, makes you think he's an apostle? Tanma, have you suffered any head trauma as of late?

What then, maybe he's got a beherit hidden under his eyepatch? This redunkulousness needs to end.

I just tried to add some fun to the topic.  :)

I don't participate too much but I'm always reading this section.
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Offline creampuff_war

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Re: Episode 288
« Reply #99 on: August 01, 2007, 07:15:28 PM »
Maybe he'll become an apostle...sacrifice his parrot or something.

and one day...

Puck will turn.
when my fist clinches crack it open<br />before I use it and loose my cool.<br />When I smile tell me some bad news<br />before I laugh and act like a fool.