Author Topic: The Carcus Chronicles  (Read 5905 times)

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Offline C

The Carcus Chronicles
« on: September 06, 2007, 09:41:48 PM »
First off, I would like to state my humble opinion, how I came to this opinion, and then my thoughts on what would be a wonderful, intelligent discussion, capable of clearing up alot of loose thought on an otherwise well designed character.   :carcus:

Originally, I saw the anime, like most. That's what obtained my interest in Berserk. Let me tell you a side story and I will make this an interesting thread starter. I played the Dreamcast game years ago when I first got my Dreamcast. It was brand new. I went into Toy'R'us and picked it and a couple of games up. I looked around and saw "Sword of the Berserk: Guts Rage". I looked at the back and saw a guy with a huge sword and said what the hell. I played it and was captivated by the awesome graphics, which trumped the PS2 if you ask me, and the wonderful story with all the characters. Of course I wasn't 100% sure what exactly was happening because I had never seen or heard of Berserk before. After the first time I beat it, I would sit there and go to the movie reel and watch all the clips as a movie. I hated the end, because just like the anime, it just left off. No explanation.

I forgot all about it and went on my way. Years later, me and a now dud girlfriend were in Media Play, and Guts face caught my eye on the first DVD sitting in the new anime section. I bought it and went home to have a look. I loved it, went back for more. Only the first two were out at this time. I waited and bought them as they came out for the next year with high anticipation of the next DVD. After 6, that was it. WTF?@!?

Blew my mind, I had to know what happened! Years ago, there really wasn't a whole lot about Berserk on the net. Skullknight.net didn't even come up. I searched and finally found it. I lurked for a long time, taking in all the info of the manga. Then I started posting here, very young and adolescent, of course that was almost 4 years ago. I had a wreck and was in a coma and have changed alot since then. I started the infamous gif-a-mania thread back in the day.

Ok, I'll stop down memory lane.  :guts:

The main subject at hand, is my second favorite character, Carcus.

Instead of asking about him, I will state a few facts and what I think about him, then anyone can take it from there or whatever. I just feel he needs a new thread to get all the haters off his back.

He was a dynamic character, always doing the best for Carcus while still staying in his box and loyal to Griffith no matter how much he disagreed with him. He was not pessimistic or optimistic, more like realistic which is why alot of times he didn't go with this unrealistic world and seemed to push other characters and readers buttons at once.

I loved that about Carcus. He was real. Everytime it seemed that everyone was getting all happy and yAy for Griffith and the team, no matter the circumstance, there was Carcus, to bring them down and say "Hey! That ain't gonna work dumbasses!". His character was built to annoy you, the love to hate type. He used to have his own little gang, had to give it up, friends killed by Guts, and was forced to like him, even follow Guts orders. No wonder he hated him. It's not that Carcus wasn't really smart enough to get rid of him, he just got so frustrated and angry, that his spontaneous and ignorant spur of the moment plans never worked.

I was really sad when he died. I know some might scoff at me, but I would love to see a good long flashback, or maybe have his soul resurrected, or maybe even a Carcus apostle or something. I know that's an extreme stretch, but I miss the guy.

People have complained and said before that he was not needed and was a waste of space, but really, if Berserk was happy go lucky and Griffith and Guts just had the greatest of times, would you really have read it, would it really be one of the greatest writings of fiction, ever. My opinion of course.

I could go on, but I will let my hands rest and let others plug in here. I know the people that have been here a while get tired of the Carcus bashing, not needed really, so here's a Carcus appreciation thread.

Anyone chime in.   

 - C


ps. what if Miura writes in a son Carcus had, that grew up not knowing his dad, Carcus, and finally figured out all about the Hawks and Guts and such, I know, too much really, yes?   :carcus:

Offline yota821

Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2007, 03:14:00 AM »
I really don't know about these 'haters' you talk of, at least not on these boards.  As for  :carcus: , I loved the guy too.  Him having a child that no one else knew about, him getting resurrected, or any flashback scene other than a montage is going a little far, though. 

Thanks for chiming in.  :carcus:
I'm just a poor, wayfaring stranger.......just moving along to the next habitation of demons.....

Offline KazigluBey

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2007, 03:57:42 AM »
Hell will freeze over before I feel sympathy for Carcus, lol.  He played his part, but unless we get a deeper glimpse of his past before joining the Hawks I pretty much see him as a prick who felt inferior to Guts and Guts influence on Griffith. 
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Walter

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2007, 04:21:18 AM »
Good to find another fan of the ol guy. I made my views known on Carcus here: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=7617.msg135546#msg135546

But I hate to tell ya, he's gone man. Let it go. He's as dead as Jodo (:judo:).
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Roderick

Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2007, 05:34:55 AM »
Ah yes, Carcus :carcus:.  Of all the Hawks who died during the eclipse, his is the one that affected me the most.  I simply couldn't believe one of my most beloved characters in the series was gone, and the moment he was slain at the hands of a buxom apostle I knew the Hawks were finished.   I eventually got used to his absence after gradually accepting his fate.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 05:45:19 AM by Roderick »

Offline Mista_B

Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2007, 05:49:16 AM »
He was an interesting and useful character foil, provided a good edge to contrast with the other characters being all lovey-dovey towards guts, but... eh, the need for him seems to have passed, though it'd be interesting to have another like him.

Offline KazigluBey

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2007, 05:54:47 AM »
Quote
He was an interesting and useful character foil, provided a good edge to contrast with the other characters being all lovey-dovey towards guts

Besides Casca right?  :guts:

She didn't exactly welcome Guts with open arms.
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Walter

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2007, 05:57:52 AM »
eh, the need for him seems to have passed, though it'd be interesting to have another like him.
It's always good to have a character who questions the decisions and life of the main character. I think Serpico provided that kind of insight until their duel in Vritannis. But now he's just a "yes man"  :serpico:

Besides Casca right?  She didn't exactly welcome Guts with open arms.
Last time I checked, Carcus didn't have a SEX SCENE with Guts. :ganishka: I know what you're saying, but Carcus is the only one who held his grudge against Guts.

:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline KazigluBey

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2007, 06:21:00 AM »
 :ganishka:

Well Guts was damned if he did, damned if he didn't with Carcus.  When he came back to help out the Hawks once Griffith had been captured, Carcus blames him for leaving them when they needed him most.  Make up your freakin' mellon Carcus.   :chomp:
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2007, 08:34:36 AM »
I really don't know about these 'haters' you talk of, at least not on these boards.

I assure you they've been here as well. Anyway, there's no real doubt that Carcus is gone for good, just like the other captains of the Hawks. But he'll always live in Guts' heart.

Hell will freeze over before I feel sympathy for Carcus, lol.

Yeah LOL, hilarious man.

Offline berserkpenguin

Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2007, 05:56:52 PM »
 hello im pretty new here so be easy on me..... about carcus when i first saw the anime i thought he was just an annoying idiot but then the second time through i saw that he was an important character in berserk. about him being ressurected or something i honestly dont think that will happen

Offline Forest Wraith

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2007, 06:26:29 PM »
It's always good to have a character who questions the decisions and life of the main character. I think Serpico provided that kind of insight until their duel in Vritannis. But now he's just a "yes man"  :serpico:

I wouldn't be too sure about that. He might be willing to follow Guts and trust him but I don't think that that means he wouldn't still be willing to try and set Guts straight if he thinks he's done something stupid.
  Everyone seems to have written him off as being whipped somehow after that but I don't see it.

Last time I checked, Carcus didn't have a SEX SCENE with Guts. :ganishka: I know what you're saying, but Carcus is the only one who held his grudge against Guts.


Oh geez, I can see the Yaoi doujin already . . .

:carcus:"Now you sound like a Damn Woman!"
:guts: "I'm so glad you noticed . . ."

Anyway, Carcus is one of the most well thought-out characters from the Old Band of the Hawk who didn't survive the Eclipse. It's easy to write characters who are impressed by the Main Character and want to be his friend but it's great that Carcus wasn't type-cast as the Jag-off who just hates Guts because. Miura gave him motivations for it that can be understood, if you are willing to really look at his character.
  He's every asshole who just can't let his guard down and be one of the guys even though he isn't really a nasty kind of person (Or else one of those arrows he aimed at Guts would probably have found their mark). He's an incredibly well-balanced character and I can't help but appreciate the unique perspective and personality traits that he brought to the series.

The cold season drifts over the land.
They all huddle in the brown corners.
Some would settle for less.
The castles were all empty, asleep
Long awaiting their King.
Beckoning round the bend.
-Opeth: Karma

Offline Walter

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2007, 06:41:16 PM »
Anyway, Carcus is one of the most well thought-out characters from the Old Band of the Hawk who didn't survive the Eclipse. ... Miura gave him motivations for it that can be understood, if you are willing to really look at his character.
He's also the only member of the Hawks who truly realized the danger Guts posed to their group because of his influence over Griffith. That's what I believe was the crux of why he hated Guts so much - he recognized he was the most volatile element of their little family.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Forest Wraith

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2007, 06:57:57 PM »
He's also the only member of the Hawks who truly realized the danger Guts posed to their group because of his influence over Griffith. That's what I believe was the crux of why he hated Guts so much - he recognized he was the most volatile element of their little family.

True, he kind of reminds of Lewis Black in that way:
Quote
"being on the Titanic every single day and being the only person who knows what is going to happen."
The cold season drifts over the land.
They all huddle in the brown corners.
Some would settle for less.
The castles were all empty, asleep
Long awaiting their King.
Beckoning round the bend.
-Opeth: Karma

Offline yota821

Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2007, 08:16:58 PM »
I also read a bit more on the character of Carcus, or more specifically his upbringing.  When Griffith was being knighted there was a little scene where Casca scolds Carcus and co. for appearing unprofessional in front of all the nobles.  Carcus makes a snide little comment saying that Casca was harder on him than his own mother.

Now some may say that that was just him making a clever comment or insult, but I think it tells us something about Carcus that Miura hinted at but never fully revealed: Carcus' reason for joining the Band of the Hawk.  Judeau alludes to the fact that Carcus was a leader of a bunch of petty thieves before, but why was he even part of that to begin with?  It's obvious he came from very humble origins, but despite that his mother was very strict with his upbringing, as the comment mentioned above hints at.  What use of it was it to him to have been brought up properly yet with no money?  It's quite possible this question formed in his mind, and thus he turned to thievery to make ends meet.

In short, he also may have wanted some way to repay his mother, and thus his crusade as a bandit and later as a member of the Band of the Hawk was a very personal thing to him.  And now it is easier to see why he put so much hope in Griffith and the Band, since it tied directly to his love for his mother.

And all from a cute little derision in response to chastisement.  I guess I'm going a little far myself now.
I'm just a poor, wayfaring stranger.......just moving along to the next habitation of demons.....

Offline Forest Wraith

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2007, 08:46:48 PM »
And all from a cute little derision in response to chastisement.  I guess I'm going a little far myself now.

Hmm . . . Very interesting. No you're not the only one, he seemed to have a promiscuous, attitude towards women and you could say that that reinforces the impression. Most importantly, I always thought there there was just something implied about the way he embraced the Female Apostle at the Eclipse . . . And then she killed and ate him . . . Subtle.
The cold season drifts over the land.
They all huddle in the brown corners.
Some would settle for less.
The castles were all empty, asleep
Long awaiting their King.
Beckoning round the bend.
-Opeth: Karma

Offline Walter

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2007, 08:58:02 PM »
True, he kind of reminds of Lewis Black in that way:
Well, I meant that Carcus recognized GUTS was the volatile element, not Carcus. And Lewis Black? Ahaha, really? I dunno...

but I think it tells us something about Carcus that Miura hinted at but never fully revealed: Carcus' reason for joining the Band of the Hawk.  ... What use of it was it to him to have been brought up properly yet with no money?  It's quite possible this question formed in his mind, and thus he turned to thievery to make ends meet.
Good stuff. Furthermore, there's some insight to be extrapolated from Carcus being the most thrilled over the Hawks' status as nobles. He was the one living it up the most and taking advantage of all the newfound privileges, as if living that kind of carefree life had become his dream. The romantic iin me likes to think that this superficial life wasn't always his goal, and only became one after a hard life of struggling to make ends meet through theft.

Quote
In short, he also may have wanted some way to repay his mother, and thus his crusade as a bandit and later as a member of the Band of the Hawk was a very personal thing to him.  And now it is easier to see why he put so much hope in Griffith and the Band, since it tied directly to his love for his mother.
I don't know about this last part. I mean, I can buy that his mother (who's never mentioned outside this one line, which as you mentioned, is a joke anyway), may have indirectly been responsible for the choices he made, but not directly. I don't see that. Still, it was a fun exercise  :serpico:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Forest Wraith

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2007, 09:18:05 PM »
Well, I meant that Carcus recognized GUTS was the volatile element, not Carcus. And Lewis Black? Ahaha, really? I dunno...

No, I'm agreeing with you. Carcus is the guy shouting: "This will not end well!"
The cold season drifts over the land.
They all huddle in the brown corners.
Some would settle for less.
The castles were all empty, asleep
Long awaiting their King.
Beckoning round the bend.
-Opeth: Karma

Offline KazigluBey

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2007, 03:07:33 AM »
Quote
I guess I'm going a little far myself now.

Maybe just a little.  :guts:

Seems like a case of over analyzing, though your logic is sound enough.  Since the Hawks didn't have anyone of noble birth amongst their ranks, you could apply your notions about Carcus' upbringing to many of the other members.  I'm not going to pretend to know what was going through Miura's mind when he came up with the character of Carcus, but I don't think his role in the story is one that was meant to have a big investigation over, when it comes to his past.  His personality and how it conflicts with the general mood of the Hawks is a plus, but I don't see him standing out THAT much.  If you like the character then I can certainly understand an interest in delving into him more, but in the grand scheme of things Carcus played his minor role, love him or hate him. 
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 08:15:48 AM by KazigluBey »
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2007, 11:13:25 AM »
Yeah I think you guys are going a little too far about this. I mean I sure do like the guy myself, but let's not completely ignore the blatant jealously he felt toward Guts, nor the general pettiness of his character. We don't need to find him excuses for being like that, because it doesn't make him a loser but rather it makes him human. Realistic. That's why I think Carcus is a great character, because he's flawed and while his flaws are often put forward, he still possesses as many qualities as some others (whose flaws were ever only hinted at, see Judo for example). He was a very loyal soldier and a capable captain, he had Griffith's trust. He stayed with the Hawks till the end, and when it was revealed what state Griffith was in, he had the most violent reaction. He wasn't just alright going his own way or becoming a thief with the others to take care of his now infirm leader like Judo. That's how devoted he was, he couldn't bear with it. The death of Griffith's dream was a little death for him as well. The scene where he breaks his sword is still to me one of the most powerful in the manga.

And it's the same with how he refused to even consider that Guts could be an exceptional man on Griffith's level. He didn't want to believe that anyone could reach Griffith, in spite of being perfectly aware of Guts' skills and capabilities. I like to compare his behavior and evolution to that of Casca. At first they both despised Guts for relatively similar reasons (well, except that he'd killed some of Carcus' buddies). He was monopolizing Griffith's attention, becoming his favorite over them even in spite of his open insolence and carelessness. He defied Griffith, fought him and yet still gained his favor. And he was better than them too. Then Guts had more interaction with Casca, which makes a difference, but to me the real thing is the difference of gender. When Guts became so great that he stopped being a rival to them and aspired to reach Griffith, Casca fell in love with him, while Carcus experienced a renewed bitterness. This man to whom Griffith had given everything thought he could be his equal? Never! He was but a mere soldier, like them all. And after Guts left, when he returned, both Carcus and Casca blamed him for having left. They both knew he wasn't to blame, but they needed someone to resent. Only, Casca loved him and couldn't cling to that artificial hatred. Not so with Carcus, but he made abstraction of his feelings for the greater good. That's how he was, grumpy and cynical yet always doing what he needed to do.

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2007, 07:52:42 PM »

I'll just say this for Carcus, the way he chose to interact with Guts off the field, and the things he said to him, doesn't represent his true feelings on it. During Guts' most dangerous battles, say when he was in trouble against Boscone and Wyald, Carcus was as concerned for and amazed by his comrade as the rest of the Hawks, belying his overt statements that he wanted to see Guts dead, he wasn't special or, at least, important to the Hawks. I think he admired him as much as everyone else in his own way, but that way meant never admitting it. In any case, Guts always understood him and his criticism, and correctly counted him among his friends. In their own way, they each respected each other.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2007, 09:35:40 PM »


I'll just say this for Carcus, the way he chose to interact with Guts off the field, and the things he said to him, doesn't represent his true feelings on it. During Guts' most dangerous battles, say when he was in trouble against Boscone and Wyald, Carcus was as concerned for and amazed by his comrade as the rest of the Hawks, belying his overt statements that he wanted to see Guts dead, he wasn't special or, at least, important to the Hawks. I think he admired him as much as everyone else in his own way, but that way meant never admitting it. In any case, Guts always understood him and his criticism, and correctly counted him among his friends. In their own way, they each respected each other.

Word on that! I was annoyed at first but got to like him even before he died! But I agree with you that they seemed to respect each other in their own way

Offline C

Re: The Carcus Chronicles
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2007, 08:57:08 PM »
Well, I just got a chance to read this since I first posted, and am happy with the input received. No useless arguing and some new perspectives, more than a handsome lad as myself could ask for. Carcus will always have a place in my heart, and maybe I will make a really cool Carcus Shrine or mural of memory. I will post it if I do. Ohh! Maybe a music video, hmmmm.   :serpico:

 - C