The overall theme of Berserk could probably be summed up best as "free will vs. fate." the question of the day, then, is how do recent events shape "the message" of Berserk, & how will that effect the plot of the manga? if you ask me (& i know everyone craves my opinion like fremen crave sand on Arrakis, but hear me out anyway), i'd say that berserk used to be all about free will, & that you had to earn everything that you wanted, that is, you had to earn your dreams with your own hands rather than magic. this was reinforced by a lot of things, which have pretty much all been discussed & are fairly apparent (though i'm always curious to hear alternate opinions). HOWEVER, in recent chapters, we've been treated to a far more supernatural, or "fantastic" version of the berserk world. now, with chapters 199-201, we've seen gatts & co. essentially fraternizing with the enemy. up till now, gatts has rejected, in many ways, all the supernatural elements of his world. now he seems to be at least tenatively accepting aide from a couple of witches. does this signify a change in the overall theme of the manga? in otherwords, does it herald the ultimate futility of free will in the battle with fate? it would certainly seem so.
Recent Events & Themes of Berserk
- Thread starter fletch
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Well, since we just realized that the spiritual world is seperate from the 'hell' world of Idea and demons, its not really fraternizing with the enemy. As for whetehr this means Guts has given up on striving for his dream with his own hands, I doubt it. Right now hes just trying to find a safe place for Casca, whatever means he has to use to get her there Im sure are open options to him. However, he has not given in to the Beast, and he has not used the Beherit. Those alone are reasons to prove that he still believes in fighting against 'fate'.
maybe i'm wrong, but i thought the idea was that there were two spiritual realms, one "hell", one with...um, good stuff, i guess. granted, the witches belong to the good side of spirituality (good jedi?), but they're still spirits.
but, here's part of where i get my idea:
throughout the gattsu's personal history, he's had many, many battles he won using purely physical prowess, or otherwise "natural" means. however, once he ran into zodd, all that changed. his major fights after zodd (exluding the hundred man battle & other "mortal" some other major "mortals-only" battles), he's won with the aid, in one form or another, of supernatural elements. after the hundred man battle, gattsu wouldn't have even been able to participate in the siege of (whatever castle... i think it was doldrey or something) the castle without the aid of elven medicine. then, during the fight, zodd had to intervene in order to save him. granted, it was an indirect method of intervention (throwing the sword for gatts to finish the fight, rather than coming in directly to save him). also, it's possible he could've won a different way. however, he didn't win a different way, & he used the supernatural intervention in order to win the battle.
also, although it's possible gatts would've won against wild/wylde/whatever, he didn't; zodd had to intervene again, this time directly.
during the eclipse, the skull knight had to save gatts & casca directly.
immediately after the eclipse, gatts has to rely on goddo's enchanted cave-area to protect casca from nightly spirit visits
during the snake baron episode, gatts needed the help of puck to recupperate afterwards.
during the battle with the count, gatts needed the help of puck several times, though it's arguable that he would've won without puck's help.
during the appearance of the godhand in that same arc, gatts was proven completely ineffectual when he tried to go against griffith/femto.
during the fight with roshinu, gatts would have died after being impaled if not for puck.
etc.
looking back, there's ample evidence that gatts has been relying, at least partially, on the supernatural in order to win his battles. if independence & achieving your goals through purely physical/natural means are the tools of free will, what, then, does this reliance signify? is free will an illusion? this is the core of my argument, especially in light of recent events. the opponents are getting increasingly difficult, & although gatts is increasing in skill (he pretty much beat zodd in human form during their last encounter in 181(?)), he's still proving powerless (or at less less effective) against the increasingly supernatural elements of his world.
so, again, i ask... does this mean free will in the berserk universe is an illusion? the witches are still supernatural, & they probably have their own version of causality that they adhere too (or other tie-ins to "fate").
Check out the 2nd summary that Olivier gives us about Episode 201:
"The real world is "connected"/"mixed" with at least 2 other planes.
Mythical creatures such as Elves or Trolls are inhabitants of the Kakuryo.
The Kakuryo has several layers, and gods and demons exist in the third one (along with the God Hands?)."
Its not verbatim, since we dont have the chapter yet, but its very likely that the above is true.
Sure, but thats not the point really. As far as Guts is concerned, there are only 2 paths: chasing the dream, or being lost. Paraphrasing what Guts tells Jill in volume 15, after she tells him the Peacuff story: "The Beherit is a tool for weak people" As long as Guts doesnt give in to the demonic side, he's still doing just fine.
Well, as I said above, I think Guts is just fine as long as he doesnt give in to the Beherit. As far as we know, Fate has nothing to do with the spiritual realm. It has everything to do with Idea's though.
i don't quite disagree with you, however, i think i'd still like to see gatts winning his battles on his own; or, if he has to have help, to have it be from mortals. i like some of the fantasy elements that berserk has been introducing of late, & i'd certainly like to see more revealed about the skull knight, causality, etc., but it's just a little disappointing how much gatts relies on the supernatural. i've always thought that gatts' dream was to win something for himself, with only himself to rely on. it just sort of seems less meaningful to me if he has all this spectral assistance. sort of like the point of the story is being lost in the details.
D
Drachenfels
Guest
Maybe the message of Berserk is simply that giant-kick-ass swords are uber-cool. :)
As long as Guts is still alive and making his own decisions, then free will lives on. He's still defying fate by just walking around...
I don't think that the two share any parrallels. The former is about chosing one own's destiny, and the latter is attaining one's dreams. Griffith had help from the Band of the Hawk, and according to "Idea", fate itself. You can't tell me that nothing's more "fantastic" or metaphysical than "fate" or "Idea". One must utilize "stepping-stones" to attain his or her dream.
Wouldn't you be more upset if Guts DID win every battle effortlessly? I know that this manga wouldn't be nearly as intriguing for me if Guts was some kind of "super-man" with the powers of surviving every life or death situation with things that are twice or more stronger than him without coming closer to death a couple of times. That to me seems more "fantastic" than relying on others (magical or not) once in a while for aid in survival. Even though Guts may be arguably the "appex" in human physical development in the Berserk world, he's only mortal.