Author Topic: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?  (Read 11695 times)

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Offline Gibraltar

Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« on: September 28, 2007, 05:24:19 AM »
Aright, so Griffith is reborn. But he appears to be (much) more more than the human Griffith he was the first time around.

Since coming back, Griffith has:

avoided harm from a barrage of arrows at close range-without dodging or getting hit.

summoned the wind to extinguish Ganishka's flame (which begs the question: Why Ganishka is still breathing? Couldn't Griffith just stab him once the flames were gone?)

All of these powers and much more are within the scope of the Godhand's powers, but does Griffith reborn have all of the powers of a Godhand?


Offline Walter

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffiths powers/limitations?
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2007, 05:35:14 AM »
Well regardless of the length of any debate, you won't get a definitive answer to your original question, since it's one of the larger mysteries at the moment. It's been one of the foremost questions since Griff came back to "human" form. You've made a good list of his abilities so far, but I think a potentially huge clue as to another aspect of his abilities was speculated in this post by Aaz (click).

I don't think I'll get much argument here in saying many of Griffith's abilities are tied to his sheer presence in the world as a reincarnated member of the God Hand. Schierke hinted at his influence while at Flora's mansion. She almost got sucked in, herself. We still don't truly know the full implications of his presence, or the range of his abilities, but a safe bet would be he's more powerful than we've seen on page so far.

That being said, I think we just may get a peek at his true potential during this final battle with Ganishka. But as to why he spared Ganishka to begin with, I can think of a handful of reasons, but none have been expressly stated yet by anyone in the series. So here on out is just my reasoning.

For one, by having Ganishka return to Wyndham to rally his troops in one location, Griffith can play cleanup by ending this whole affair in one fell swoop - a decisive battle, instead of another series of dragged out campaigns.

Another point is the constant public relations battle Griffith has been fighting since his return. He has to appear as the penultimate saviour of the people. What better way to appear a hero than doing it in a public arena at the heartland of the continent, involving several human armies? He can achieve many ends in Wyndham, not only through victory over his opponent, but by gaining even more favor among the general populace.

That's not to say I think Griffith will have it truly easy. Ganishka's already shown he's full of surprises, and I think he may yet leave a permanent reminder of his temporary reign over the world. Just not sure what it'll be yet...  Maybe he'll mar Griffith's perfect face? I bet he'd enjoy that :ganishka:
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Offline KazigluBey

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffiths powers/limitations?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2007, 05:37:53 AM »
I'd say he definitely has increased fighting skill, but I have no idea if he's a better all around fighter than Zodd, Grunbeld, etc. Then again he doesn't really have to be. He's got one hell of an army around him.

I don't recall him summoning any wind. I believe the apostles busted a hole in that mobile building of his, thus letting the wind flow in. Ganishka's power is to turn his body into mist, or surround his body with mist, thus Griffith's sword could not cut him. 

We don't really know the full extent of the Godhand's powers, meaning the other members, so it's hard to say whether or not his powers are greater or less than they were as Femto.  I don't imagine they would have diminished much.
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Offline Smith

Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffiths powers/limitations?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2007, 10:44:31 AM »
Since coming back, Griffith has:
avoided harm from a barrage of arrows at close range-without dodging or getting hit.

I have always speculated that Griffith has sort of a control over causality, fate and destiny. Not something as great as Idea of Evil, but of a smaller magnitude.

The possible miracle he done to dodge those arrow could be alteration of a outcome of a situation, which he was supposed to get hit, but he manipulate the course of it and hence it miss.

Then again it just my speculation.
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Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffiths powers/limitations?
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2007, 03:30:00 PM »
That's not to say I think Griffith will have it truly easy. Ganishka's already shown he's full of surprises, and I think he may yet leave a permanent reminder of his temporary reign over the world. Just not sure what it'll be yet...  Maybe he'll mar Griffith's perfect face? I bet he'd enjoy that :ganishka:

Not only would I love to see the pretty boy marred in some way, but it would show that he's not invincible and is capable of being harmed.  Plus, it would be such a cool way for Ganishka to go out. :ganishka:

I have always speculated that Griffith has sort of a control over causality, fate and destiny. Not something as great as Idea of Evil, but of a smaller magnitude.

The possible miracle he done to dodge those arrow could be alteration of a outcome of a situation, which he was supposed to get hit, but he manipulate the course of it and hence it miss.

That was my initial thought when I first saw the scene with Griffith and the arrows.  Hopefully a little light will be shed on whatever Griffith's capable of in the upcoming battle at Wyndham.

Offline Gibraltar

Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffiths powers/limitations?
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2007, 04:10:17 PM »
Another point is the constant public relations battle Griffith has been fighting since his return. He has to appear as the penultimate saviour of the people. What better way to appear a hero than doing it in a public arena at the heartland of the continent, involving several human armies? He can achieve many ends in Wyndham, not only through victory over his opponent, but by gaining even more favor among the general populace.

This explanation is the most plausible, in my opinion; Griffith chose not to kill Ganishka for P.R. reasons.Of course had he had the Pope's blessing before the encounter, it wouldn't be necessary.

Edit (I meant this to be part of the original post):

Ganishka's power is to turn his body into mist, or surround his body with mist, thus Griffith's sword could not cut him. 

I've never seen Ganishka turn his body into mist (only surround his body by it) and the look of fear on his face certainly suggested he could've been killed at that very moment. If not, he wouldn't have surrendered.

As for Griffith sharing an identity/body with the Moonlight kid....wow...thats just a whole new bunch of powers available to him...

« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 04:45:23 PM by Gibraltar »

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffiths powers/limitations?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2007, 04:32:34 PM »
As for Griffith sharing an identity/body with the Moonlight kid....wow...thats just a whole new bunch of powers available to him...

How so?

Offline Gibraltar

Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffiths powers/limitations?
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2007, 04:49:00 PM »
How so?

I'd assumed the Moonlight Child was the fetus that teleported into existence and saved Casca from the heretics that tried to rape her.

That would add teleportation to the list of Moon Light child/ Griffith's powers.

Offline Walter

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffiths powers/limitations?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2007, 05:01:29 PM »
I'd assumed the Moonlight Child was the fetus that teleported into existence and saved Casca from the heretics that tried to rape her.

That would add teleportation to the list of Moon Light child/ Griffith's powers.
Yeah but there's no confirmation the child's retained those abilities since he's inhabited a fleshly body. Anyway, I don't think its 100% accurate to say Griffith has these abilities readily available. If it's indeed Griff and the child sharing bodies, as the child, there could be a totally different subset of abilities. And I sincerely doubt Griffith chooses that form at will, which is why it makes things even more complicated than they were already. The concept is a real monkey wrench - what a mess  :guts:
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Offline surft

Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffiths powers/limitations?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2007, 10:26:07 AM »
I think the defeat of Nosferatu Zodd in a Nightmare on Elm street manner
(pardon) with his horn cut off and all would hint towards physical based powers  aside from psychological (charisma) that Griffith would already possess.   

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffiths powers/limitations?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2007, 10:29:23 AM »
Aright, so Griffith is reborn.

To be exact, Femto was incarnated in a fleshly body.

summoned the wind to extinguish Ganishka's flame

That's mist, not fire.

I'd say he definitely has increased fighting skill

He's most likely faster and stronger because of his nature, but why would he be more skilled? Do you think he trained as a swordsman during his time as Femto?

I don't recall him summoning any wind. I believe the apostles busted a hole in that mobile building of his, thus letting the wind flow in.

The wind that was exceptionally strong and appeared out of nowhere, at the exact moment Griffith made a witty remark about it. A little too convenient, don't you think? Why do you think Griffith told the apostles to tear the roof apart in the first place?

This explanation is the most plausible, in my opinion; Griffith chose not to kill Ganishka for P.R. reasons.Of course had he had the Pope's blessing before the encounter, it wouldn't be necessary.

That's indeed plausible, but it's unlikely the Pontiff's blessing had much to do with it. His loyalty and devotion were already acquired to Griffith at the time. It's probably a little more complicated than that.

I've never seen Ganishka turn his body into mist (only surround his body by it)

Then I take it you haven't read volume 27. Irvine took a shot at him, and Ganishka transformed into fog as the arrow went through him.

I'd assumed the Moonlight Child was the fetus that teleported into existence and saved Casca from the heretics that tried to rape her.

That would add teleportation to the list of Moon Light child/ Griffith's powers.

He could appear and disappear at will because he was affiliated to specters due to his nature. He also couldn't appear during the day. If he is indeed the Moonlight Child, it's pretty unlikely that he kept those abilities. He's not a mere ghost anymore now, he has a body, and his powers seem a lot more powerful than they were. If the idea that he and Griffith are one and the same is exact, then it's the child that leeches power away from Griffith and not the other way around. And in fact, the very scene this whole idea is taken from shows Zodd overlooking Guts & co, that's where the idea that the kid is part of Griffith stems from (Zodd would have brought him there). That means no teleportation.

I think the defeat of Nosferatu Zodd in a Nightmare on Elm street manner
(pardon) with his horn cut off and all would hint towards physical based powers  aside from psychological (charisma) that Griffith would already possess.

Indeed. And the king of Midland also died while in the dream.

Offline Ralwatt

Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffiths powers/limitations?
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2008, 12:03:03 PM »
I've also been wondering what Griffith's powers are.

During the eclipse we saw him exercise some sort of "gravity control", crushing the bodies of a number of apostles into a small sphere. In that scene he seemed almost to be experimenting with his powers.
Since that scene I don't think we've ever seen him do anything similar (other than defending against Guts' attack in their pre-flashback encounter) and since his reincarnation Griffith has yet to show any concrete powers. This makes me wonder if perhaps Griffith doesn't have superhuman powers now that he's taken human form. This would explain his reliance on the other apostles.

His control over spirits and the hearts and minds of humans and apostles alike I would suggest stems simply from his supernatural presence as one of the members of God Hand, not from any special ability beyond that. Similarly, I think that the arrows that missed him can also be explained as the result of his incredible presence, affecting the Kushan archers. They couldn't bring themselves to shoot him in the same way that most of the apostles cannot bring themselves to harm him.

It may well be that Griffith is about to disprove this hypothesis in his confrontation with Ganishka, but if he does not then I think it makes for a very interesting dynamic - in order to fulfill his dream Griffith had to give up his "godhood", becoming vulnerable to Guts' revenge.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2008, 01:40:30 PM »
During the eclipse we saw him exercise some sort of "gravity control", crushing the bodies of a number of apostles into a small sphere. In that scene he seemed almost to be experimenting with his powers.
Since that scene I don't think we've ever seen him do anything similar (other than defending against Guts' attack in their pre-flashback encounter) and since his reincarnation Griffith has yet to show any concrete powers.

Indeed, we haven't seen him do anything similar to what he did as Femto since his incarnation.

His control over spirits and the hearts and minds of humans and apostles alike I would suggest stems simply from his supernatural presence as one of the members of God Hand, not from any special ability beyond that. Similarly, I think that the arrows that missed him can also be explained as the result of his incredible presence, affecting the Kushan archers. They couldn't bring themselves to shoot him in the same way that most of the apostles cannot bring themselves to harm him.

Personally I think it's clear he's got supernatural powers. Summoning the spirits of the dead or a strong wind out of the blue seems to fit the definition pretty well to me. And about those arrows, while everything's possible, if you look at the panel it doesn't really look like they could have all missed him through human error. Rather, this reminds us of what SK told Guts on the beach: Griffith cannot be harmed through normal means (or by normal people) anymore.

It may well be that Griffith is about to disprove this hypothesis in his confrontation with Ganishka

Hasn't he proven it already? He's transforming into the Falcon of Light at the end of episode 297.

Offline Ralwatt

Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2008, 05:50:50 PM »
Indeed, we haven't seen him do anything similar to what he did as Femto since his incarnation.

Personally I think it's clear he's got supernatural powers. Summoning the spirits of the dead or a strong wind out of the blue seems to fit the definition pretty well to me. And about those arrows, while everything's possible, if you look at the panel it doesn't really look like they could have all missed him through human error. Rather, this reminds us of what SK told Guts on the beach: Griffith cannot be harmed through normal means (or by normal people) anymore.

Hasn't he proven it already? He's transforming into the Falcon of Light at the end of episode 297.

We don't know what drew the spirits there, it could be that Griffith was just taking the credit. Or they could just be attracted to him as an extremely important spiritual entity.

The wind is also not shown to be his work.
He may have chosen to wait for a wind before attacking the emperor, or he may have relied on other means to create it, for example a magic user.

I didn't suggest human error.
My suggestion was that due to his presence normal humans cannot bring themselves to harm him.

You can view it as a transformation, but Griffith turning into a giant bird seems rather crude to me. I believe that the image we saw was a metaphor for how Ganeshka sees him.
That does not mean that he will not show some supernatural power, but I think that if it comes, it will come in a more subtle and elegant form than that.

I'm not saying that Griffith definitely has no powers, I'm saying that it's a possibility since everything seen so far can be explained in other ways. I'm suggesting the idea because to me it would be more in keeping with his character to rely upon his presence and his intellect than to rely on brute force.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2008, 06:30:16 PM »
We don't know what drew the spirits there, it could be that Griffith was just taking the credit. Or they could just be attracted to him as an extremely important spiritual entity.

Griffith drew them there, that much is clear. And he seemed to have total control over them.

The wind is also not shown to be his work.
He may have chosen to wait for a wind before attacking the emperor, or he may have relied on other means to create it, for example a magic user.

He didn't rely on any magic user, and I don't see how he could have waited for the wind before attacking, considering how perfect the timing was. Ah, and did he force Ganishka to turn into fog through psychology as well?

You can view it as a transformation, but Griffith turning into a giant bird seems rather crude to me. I believe that the image we saw was a metaphor for how Ganeshka sees him.

The name is spelled "Ganishka", and I don't think it was a metaphor. Even if it is a purely astral phenomenon, that's still a supernatural demonstration of power.

That does not mean that he will not show some supernatural power, but I think that if it comes, it will come in a more subtle and elegant form than that.

You mean a more subtle and elegant form than what we're already seeing, what's been prophetized, and what Griffith has been appearing as for over 15 volumes now? I think you have the odds against you.

I'm not saying that Griffith definitely has no powers, I'm saying that it's a possibility since everything seen so far can be explained in other ways.

Other ways that are rather implausible, and do necessitate supernatural phenomenons to take place anyway.

Offline Ralwatt

Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2008, 06:53:51 PM »
Griffith drew them there, that much is clear. And he seemed to have total control over them.

He didn't rely on any magic user, and I don't see how he could have waited for the wind before attacking, considering how perfect the timing was. Ah, and did he force Ganishka to turn into fog through psychology as well?

The name is spelled "Ganishka", and I don't think it was a metaphor. Even if it is a purely astral phenomenon, that's still a supernatural demonstration of power.

You mean a more subtle and elegant form than what we're already seeing, what's been prophetized, and what Griffith has been appearing as for over 15 volumes now? I think you have the odds against you.

Other ways that are rather implausible, and do necessitate supernatural phenomenons to take place anyway.
He wasn't explicitly shown to draw them there, we just saw them around him. He seemed to control them, but again that does not mean he was exercising a supernatural power. For all we know they were just following his will. As the most significant being under god that hardly seems surprising.

He may have relied on an unseen magic user. The timing was good but not perfect - it if had been perfect he would have intervined during the attack the night before.
He never forced Ganishka to change into fog.

I'm not saying he has no power over the astral realm - we know he has power over it, I'm suggesting that he may have no special power over the physical realm.

The hawk has been metaphorical so far. No-one prophesied that he would physically become a hawk.

Phenomenons caused by others under his command, not by him. That's my whole point.

All of your arguments are based entirely upon Ockham's Razor, which determines not correct answers but probably ones. What I am suggesting is an interesting and unusual direction that the author could choose to take. It's not as likely as Griffith just having superpowers, but it is possible.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2008, 07:25:07 PM »
He wasn't explicitly shown to draw them there, we just saw them around him.

But it's clear he's the reason they gathered there, even though it isn't explicitly shown. Or are you saying it was just luck that he happened to be there at the time and that anybody else could do it?

He seemed to control them, but again that does not mean he was exercising a supernatural power. For all we know they were just following his will.

So mentally controlling spirits isn't supernatural? Because it doesn't seem to be a natural occurrence to me.

He may have relied on an unseen magic user.

An unseen magic user we have never seen nor heard of. While Griffith has made it pretty clear, as shown by his attack against Flora and what SK later explained, that magic users really aren't his cup of tea. I find it far-fetched.

The timing was good but not perfect - it if had been perfect he would have intervined during the attack the night before.

This is preposterous. The timing of the wind at the moment Griffith confronted Ganishka was perfect. The time at which the Band of the Falcon countered the Kushan armies has absolutely nothing to do with it. And actually, it can be argued that Griffith needed everybody to see him and his men driving the whole Kushan armies away in order to do what he wanted. Striking at Ganishka the night before could have resulted in making him suspicious and launching an assault while staying hidden, which would have been a catastrophe. Honestly I don't think that line of argumentation is going to lead you anywhere.

He never forced Ganishka to change into fog.

Yes, he did. He held out his hand, and Ganishka lost it, fog coming out of his mouth and body, until he transformed completely.

I'm not saying he has no power over the astral realm - we know he has power over it, I'm suggesting that he may have no special power over the physical realm.

The astral world directly impacts the corporeal. That's why apostles become monsters in the real world while only their immaterial self is transmuted. Besides, you were talking about how Griffith hasn't retained Femto's powers, but Femto wasn't a physical entity to begin with.

Phenomenons caused by others under his command, not by him. That's my whole point.

No, phenomenons caused by him as well, just different ones that you seem to think don't qualify as supernatural for some reason. Like mesmerizing a crowd of people so that they won't harm him just by standing there.

All of your arguments are based entirely upon Ockham's Razor, which determines not correct answers but probably ones. What I am suggesting is an interesting and unusual direction that the author could choose to take. It's not as likely as Griffith just having superpowers, but it is possible.

Not entirely, no. They're also based on common sense as well as on my understanding of the Berserk world, and of course on the fact we've been shown direct supernatural manifestations from Griffith recently. You can disagree but then it's because your definition of supernatural doesn't match mine. As for what you're suggesting, it's actually one of the oldest theories on this website, and I think it takes a sizable amount of bad faith to still defend it while the latest episode shows us Griffith surrounded by giant wings of light. Of course, it could be Ganishka's imagination. Or it could be created by an apostle whose power is to create illusions. And the wind could have been called forth by alien technology. In the end though it's not the case and that'll probably be proven with the next episode. We can talk about it then.

Offline Guts' intestines

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2008, 10:54:28 PM »
I think the fact that its been said that Griffith is the untouchable one on Earth implies that he has some form of supernatural powers, what they may be will more likely be confirmed in the next episode.

Offline Okin

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2008, 08:17:25 PM »
I think everyone who reads Berserk at least wonders about the possibility that Griffith isn't really that powerful because we have too much free time on our hands. :troll: No, even if it's not other-worldly power (Which I think it is), even if Griffith just plans everything with his greater understanding of causality, he still has giant wings of light that are visible to everyone in the latest episode. No one is dreaming. Griffith is doing something impossible for humans. Unless of course someone can explain to me how charisma and impeccable planning can create wings of light the size of skyscrapers?
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Offline Guts' intestines

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2008, 09:05:49 PM »
I think everyone who reads Berserk at least wonders about the possibility that Griffith isn't really that powerful because we have too much free time on our hands. :troll: No, even if it's not other-worldly power (Which I think it is), even if Griffith just plans everything with his greater understanding of causality, he still has giant wings of light that are visible to everyone in the latest episode. No one is dreaming. Griffith is doing something impossible for humans. Unless of course someone can explain to me how charisma and impeccable planning can create wings of light the size of skyscrapers?

or how charisma and impeccable planning can cause a barrage of arrows to miss him fired at point blank range, unless of course Griffith's powers allow him to control probability through some type of warping of quantum mechanics (what a mouthful).

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2008, 09:19:22 PM »
I think there is too much focus on the extent of Griffith's powers, despite the fact that there isn't enough info to make any real conclusion. Griffith's limitations are far more interesting.
The Demon Child is Griffith's main limitation and he's aware of it in some shape or form. As shown at the hill of swords. When Griffith protected Casca from flying rocks. Griffith even thought about the incident after.



Offline Guts' intestines

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2008, 09:37:34 PM »
I think that they are so interrelated that if we get a decent picture of either his limitations or his powers then we could determine other things we didn't know in the other category.  For example, if we knew that one of Griffith's limitations is that his body can be destroyed then we'd know that one of his powers isn't invincibility.

Offline Okin

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2008, 09:54:37 PM »
Why doesn't everyone just let this topic rest at least until the next episode when Griffith may just reveal something.
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Offline Oburi

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2008, 10:50:11 PM »
I love the way Miura has decided to reveal Griffiths "powers".  He doesn't make him out to be some kind of magician or harry potter type spellcaster or anything like that.   It's much more subtle and mysterious and that evokes a much more of dangerous feeling. That goes for all the magic and powers in the berserk world actually.

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2009, 09:33:13 PM »
Well it turned out Griffith didn't actually transform when we saw the wings at the end of episode 298.  :schnoz:

With episode 302, hopefully we'll have some light shed on this topic of transformation. I see this as being divided into two camps: Those who think he will transform, and those that more or less hope he won't. I'd like to propose a theory that possibly both theories are right.

While we still don't know yet, it's safe to say that so far Griffith has only been seen as the Falcon of Light in dreams and visions. Even if Griffith never physically changes form, I hypothesize that perhaps it will be possible that the audience will still see wings surrounding Griffith as he fights. As Griffith taps into his "powers", whatever their limitations are, he may create a part of the image of the Falcon of Light. Picture something like the vision that the Pontiff had, where he saw the wings of the Falcon of Light, but then saw the face of Griffith and not the face of the Falcon. This sort of "semi-transformation" is what I'm theorizing at this point, and if I'm right then people on both sides of the fence should be satisfied.

Probably my favorite part of this theory, and I know it can be seen as pretty out there, is that it would separate Griffith from the "monsters" under his command. He would be neither human or monster, but something else entirely. Something much more elegant, beautiful, perhaps even angelic? We'll know soon enough (in Berserk terms, anyway)!

Your thoughts.  :serpico: