Author Topic: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?  (Read 11856 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2009, 11:01:14 PM »
Well it turned out Griffith didn't actually transform when we saw the wings at the end of episode 298.

The wings are in episode 297.

With episode 302, hopefully we'll have some light shed on this topic of transformation. I see this as being divided into two camps: Those who think he will transform, and those that more or less hope he won't. I'd like to propose a theory that possibly both theories are right.

While we still don't know yet, it's safe to say that so far Griffith has only been seen as the Falcon of Light in dreams and visions. Even if Griffith never physically changes form, I hypothesize that perhaps it will be possible that the audience will still see wings surrounding Griffith as he fights. As Griffith taps into his "powers", whatever their limitations are, he may create a part of the image of the Falcon of Light. Picture something like the vision that the Pontiff had, where he saw the wings of the Falcon of Light, but then saw the face of Griffith and not the face of the Falcon. This sort of "semi-transformation" is what I'm theorizing at this point, and if I'm right then people on both sides of the fence should be satisfied.

Probably my favorite part of this theory, and I know it can be seen as pretty out there, is that it would separate Griffith from the "monsters" under his command. He would be neither human or monster, but something else entirely. Something much more elegant, beautiful, perhaps even angelic? We'll know soon enough (in Berserk terms, anyway)!

From your previous posts about this in other threads I have the feeling you're a bit confused about this whole issue. It seems pretty clear to me that Griffith isn't going to physically transform like an apostle would, sprouting claws and the like. It's not just called the "Falcon of Light" because it sounds cool: it's actually made of light. The wings Ganishka saw at the end of episode 297 were spiritual in nature, but they were still a demonstration of Griffith's otherworldly powers. Note that Ganishka had already seen Griffith in such a manner in episode 282, only his silhouette was purely human then.

Does anyone actually think that Griffith will change into a monster and physically attack Ganishka? Because that seems kind of ridiculous. The whole point of Ganishka's transformation is that he's physically invulnerable. He's just too big. So obviously then, the best course of action is to attack on the spiritual level. Which just so happens to be the God Hand's specialty (Griffith included). Looking at it now I guess it's the word "transform" that throws people off. Let's just say then that at the end of episode 297 it looks like his spiritual self is taking the form of the Falcon of Light, and that for now it seems a likely possibility that it's what will attack Ganishka.

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2009, 01:06:24 AM »
The wings are in episode 297.

Man how did I mess that one up.  :???:

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From your previous posts about this in other threads I have the feeling you're a bit confused about this whole issue. It seems pretty clear to me that Griffith isn't going to physically transform like an apostle would, sprouting claws and the like. It's not just called the "Falcon of Light" because it sounds cool: it's actually made of light. The wings Ganishka saw at the end of episode 297 were spiritual in nature, but they were still a demonstration of Griffith's otherworldly powers. Note that Ganishka had already seen Griffith in such a manner in episode 282, only his silhouette was purely human then.

Does anyone actually think that Griffith will change into a monster and physically attack Ganishka? Because that seems kind of ridiculous. The whole point of Ganishka's transformation is that he's physically invulnerable. He's just too big. So obviously then, the best course of action is to attack on the spiritual level. Which just so happens to be the God Hand's specialty (Griffith included). Looking at it now I guess it's the word "transform" that throws people off. Let's just say then that at the end of episode 297 it looks like his spiritual self is taking the form of the Falcon of Light, and that for now it seems a likely possibility that it's what will attack Ganishka.

Ah yes, I got the impression from other people's posts that they were expecting a more apostle-like transformation, weren't they? If not, then we were pretty much in agreement all along. I'm really looking forward to see how Mr. Miura will illustrate this for us. Like, will this "spiritual" manifestation operate outside of Griffith's physical body? Or will he be surrounded by it? Either way would be interesting, though it'd be confusing if it were to operate outside his physical body, so that seems less likely. Another point to take into consideration is whether or not the humans watching will be able to see it or not... I'm guessing they would since they've all been visited by the Falcon in their dreams and visions, which could be preparation for this event... but then again they didn't seem to see the wings at the end of ep. 297.

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2009, 01:15:56 AM »
Agreed, agreed.  IMO Griff's FoL form is already at least partially in effect, it's just that it's way over in the direction of the Ideal world, so that Ganny, with his brains pointed toward the Ideal, can directly see it.  So I don't think his inability to comprehend his own troops is due only to his huge transformation, but also due to his attention and perception not being pointed very strongly at the mortal world at all (...where'd everybody go?  ...huh?  flowers...  neat...).

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2009, 03:53:33 AM »
Like, will this "spiritual" manifestation operate outside of Griffith's physical body? Or will he be surrounded by it? Either way would be interesting, though it'd be confusing if it were to operate outside his physical body, so that seems less likely.

Why do you think it'd be confusing? There are tons of ways it could be pulled off. Even a simple variation of the magic users' spiritual "lifeline" would work. And if we assume the Falcon of Light is going to directly strike Ganishka, then it will almost certainly have to separate itself from Griffith's tiny corporeal form. Which just gave me a fun idea: what if the Moonlight Boy was in control whenever Griffith left his body as the Falcon of Light to go visit people in their dreams or whatnot? Food for thought. :slan:

Another point to take into consideration is whether or not the humans watching will be able to see it or not... I'm guessing they would since they've all been visited by the Falcon in their dreams and visions, which could be preparation for this event... but then again they didn't seem to see the wings at the end of ep. 297.

Ganishka could already see Griffith's "body of light" before his transformation because he was a magic user, and that didn't change when he became whatever it is he's now. For the other spectators, I think it could go both way honestly. Maybe they will see a manifestation of Griffith's power, maybe not. Humans and apostles could also see different things (or not). But we don't even know what Griffith will do anyway. Even if we assume it'll be spiritual in nature, he could form a full Falcon and attack directly, or it could be more abstract like Ganishka's "flesh" starting to boil and melt or something in the same vein. Or something else entirely, who knows.

I guess a good point to start wildly speculating would be that Griffith will move ahead of his troops, alone, while Ganishka gets closer. Then what? Ganishka spits fireballs all over the place, but Griffith is unscathed? He tries to trample him, but is repulsed by an incommensurable power? Or he just dies before even attacking, struck down by a fulgurous assault?

IMO Griff's FoL form is already at least partially in effect, it's just that it's way over in the direction of the Ideal world, so that Ganny, with his brains pointed toward the Ideal, can directly see it.

Hmm, I'm not sure we should talk of the Idea world in this case. Ganishka might have gone deep enough to reach the place but he's back now, and from the little we know of it, phenomenons like what we're discussing right now seem to be more on the level of the astral world.

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2009, 05:09:52 AM »
Hmm, I'm not sure we should talk of the Idea world in this case. Ganishka might have gone deep enough to reach the place but he's back now, and from the little we know of it, phenomenons like what we're discussing right now seem to be more on the level of the astral world.

Yes, I only meant more in the direction of the Ideal, not all the way over into it.  In the sense that, if your source POV is in the material world, then to see Puck, you're looking more towards the Ideal.

(also, goddamn it, my web host is on the fritz again.)

Offline Bekul

Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2009, 05:52:48 AM »
Not to mention, the added and extremely unusual extra complication of, well, as Sonia put it, something like 'The rules of this world have come to an end.'

Trying to determine what might or might not happen, based on our previous understanding of the Berserk world, might not get us very far in these unique circumstances, though I agree that I really doubt the Griffith that people see is going to do something silly like suddenly sprout wings and fly up to Ganishka with his sword or anything apostle-like like that.

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2009, 01:30:52 AM »
Why do you think it'd be confusing? There are tons of ways it could be pulled off. Even a simple variation of the magic users' spiritual "lifeline" would work. And if we assume the Falcon of Light is going to directly strike Ganishka, then it will almost certainly have to separate itself from Griffith's tiny corporeal form. Which just gave me a fun idea: what if the Moonlight Boy was in control whenever Griffith left his body as the Falcon of Light to go visit people in their dreams or whatnot? Food for thought. :slan:

When I said it'd be confusing if the Falcon appeared as a separate entity I was referring to the humans that are watching. Would they still be able to tell that this Falcon is in fact Griffith? Perhaps they'd think he is somehow "protected" by it. I don't think it's implausible to see Griffith leap all the way up to Ganishka's head, surrounded in the Falcon of Light, and attack him both physically and spiritually (though obviously the physical damage wouldn't be the breaking point)... something looking like when Serpico attacks, he swings his blade but it's the wind that damages.

I like the idea of the Moonlight Boy being in control of the Falcon of Light, that would show an honest purity to it that we don't really have with Griffith... the boy did appear to be made of light when he brought Guts back to his consciousness at the beach. Man that would really open up a lot of fun possibilities!

Quote
I guess a good point to start wildly speculating would be that Griffith will move ahead of his troops, alone, while Ganishka gets closer. Then what? Ganishka spits fireballs all over the place, but Griffith is unscathed? He tries to trample him, but is repulsed by an incommensurable power? Or he just dies before even attacking, struck down by a fulgurous assault?

I'm placing my bet on Griffith fighting him alone, but who knows really. Also, I'm not feeling the "one blow" defeat for Ganishka... I think it'll last a good few episodes, we're still not entirely sure what other tricks Ganishka's new form has up it's sleeves.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Since being reborn, what are Griffith's powers/limitations?
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2009, 01:28:33 PM »
When I said it'd be confusing if the Falcon appeared as a separate entity I was referring to the humans that are watching. Would they still be able to tell that this Falcon is in fact Griffith?

I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem if Miura wanted it done. It's not like Griffith isn't known as the "White Falcon" in the first place.

I don't think it's implausible to see Griffith leap all the way up to Ganishka's head, surrounded in the Falcon of Light, and attack him both physically and spiritually (though obviously the physical damage wouldn't be the breaking point)... something looking like when Serpico attacks, he swings his blade but it's the wind that damages.

It doesn't seem implausible to you that Griffith would jump a mile high and stab Ganishka in the face? Sounds a bit silly to me, to be honest. I could more easily imagine him straight out flying as the Falcon of Light (his body in the middle or something) than doing what you're describing.

I like the idea of the Moonlight Boy being in control of the Falcon of Light, that would show an honest purity to it that we don't really have with Griffith...

But that's not what I meant at all... The idea was that whenever Griffith takes on the form of the Falcon of Light and leaves his physical body (to visit people in their dreams for example), the Moonlight Boy would be left in control of said physical body.