Author Topic: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..  (Read 9961 times)

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Offline Marik

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Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« on: October 03, 2007, 05:41:09 PM »
I always wandered, the Meaning of the Griffith final Glance to Guts, before that the Infernal Hand envelops Him to makes him achieve his Rebirth as Femto.

That eyes, after he has finally realized that Guts is his destrucion as man undr every aspect, what does may express?

I always priviledged two ways:

-He looks at Guts, Like someone that looks an ex girlfriend, when those eyes represent the realized total annichilation of himself, as if the resignation rules upon the Lovelorn.
So there's Great Melancoly with serenity in blessing Him.

-That Glance express an Hanger without any fury, a truly will to Get himself Back, understanding the truth of his nature. So It may resamble a little smirk.(Buts in any case I think that the final resignation towards him could be possible).  ::)

Offline Walter

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2007, 05:43:39 PM »
I don't think you can express that look in words, but I never read it as hatred. I took it as something along the lines of : "Thanks for bringing me this far. I'll take it from here."  :griff:

It's one of my favorite moments in the series. It simply and effectively communicates so much about their relationship and history with just one panel.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Luca

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2007, 05:45:33 PM »
I don't think you can express that look in words, but I never read it as hatred. I took it as something along the lines of : "Thanks for bringing me this far. I'll take it from here."  :griff:

I agree with this sentiment completely.  I think it has a bit of regret in it, perhaps a bit of fondness, a bit of thanks, and a bit of a manic kind of happiness that can only come from someone running a marathon and practically collapsing of heat stroke at the end.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads?

Offline Marik

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2007, 05:59:00 PM »
Of course I'm speculating, but I like to have some opinion about It becouse probably I'm wrong.  :serpico:

Offline Funkmasta Zeph

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2007, 01:01:51 AM »
There's a bit of everything in that glance.

Offline Okin

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2007, 09:50:55 PM »
Lust?  :ganishka:
Sho has turned over to me, the responsibility to send you to hell...

Offline Uriel

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2007, 06:05:55 PM »
That moment has been read by me more times than other scene in Berserk.

I think Wally hit the nail on the head with his example. There is no sympathy in his eyes, because he knows it's the way it's supposed to be. Kind of like putting down a belove companion because fate has its own plans for them. Like my deceased dog Scamp... oh god I miss Scamp =(


Disclaimer: Never actually owned a dog.

Offline yesmilord

Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2007, 06:21:13 PM »
I was thinking about this long and hard last night and was about to make a post on it   :isidro: !

Honestly though, I'd have to go back, revisit, and reread the whole Golden Age arc just to capture all the feelings that were associated with that particular moment. As the previous posters mentioned, it's probably a mix of everything. EDIT: added a the following photo-reference.

I sacrifice...

There is:

Mutual Love
From the time Guts joined the Band of the Hawk all the way till now, there was always that close link between the two...almost like lovers, but not quite. I wouldn't put it THAT close, but definitely more than best friends.

Admiration
At the ONLY PERSON ON THE PLANET that could've crushed his dream. The only person who dared to oppose it and walk out unscathed was Guts. Remember when Griffith was locked away deep in the tower, he saw Guts as the only thing keeping him alive: either to exact vengeance upon or just as pure admiration for the only true friend he's ever had.

Hatred
Griffith was torn when Guts left the Band of the Hawk, leaving his dream in shambles. For such a long time he was tortured, his tendons were severed, and his tongue cut out. This goes back to the mutual love part - if your fated spouse left you in the middle of the cold winter, I'm sure you'd go do some insane things like knocking up the princess of Midland causing the ultimate downward spiral of your life and leaving you to wallow in the very pit of your own despair.  :carcus:

Regret

As in: "we had some good times, Guts, but now is the time to say goodbye."

Jealousy
Comes from mixed feelings after seeing Guts so intimate with Casca. It wasn't so much that Guts had stolen Casca or anything like that, but that Guts had become so strong, so independent, so fulfilling of his own dream and happiness that the sight was almost unbearable for the broken Griffith.

Closure / Satisfaction
Griffith has come this far and the illusion he was shown by Ubik really strengthens his resolve. "Bury them in the ruins of your dream." Griffith chose to pursue the most radiant thing in his eyes: the castle perched atop the mountain. Of course it was the most obvious choice - to sacrifice everything in his past and move forward as he always had towards his ultimate dream. This is his ultimate satisfaction.

Honestly, this probably only skims the mixture of emotions that the image reeks of. I think Uriel makes a really good point, that somehow Griffith is content with the fact that everyone he's loved is being sacrificed and feels self-justified because it was all "fate". This then becomes a truly focal point in the plot because Guts is a figure who bluntly confronts the face of fate with a 12ft. sword. As SK says: "We are all but shadows upon water." Apparently, Guts might be that fish that alters the water.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 07:09:08 PM by yesmilord »

Offline Justamos3

Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2009, 11:34:24 AM »
I honestly see   "...farewell..."

Offline Irvine

Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2009, 08:12:35 PM »
I think he remembers the good times they had and is ready to say goodbye.

Offline yota821

Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2009, 03:07:33 AM »
One thing to remember is that that is his expression after he says the words to sacrifice the Band of the Hawk (and more specifically, Guts).  I really think that all of the mutual love, kindness, gratitude, etc. is all spent in his reminiscing of his times with Guts, and that expression right there I think is the first hint of the cold, calculating, and ultimately ascension (or descent, however you look at it) into pure evil.  :griffnotevil:  +  :idea: =   :griff:
I'm just a poor, wayfaring stranger.......just moving along to the next habitation of demons.....

Offline Walter

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2009, 04:37:39 PM »
One thing to remember is that that is his expression after he says the words to sacrifice the Band of the Hawk (and more specifically, Guts).
Yes, but it's before Griff sheds his "final tear," en route to the Abyss. Which implies that not all of his emotion was gone just because he initiated the sacrificial ceremony.

I really don't see how you can't see emotion in his face there, just as the hand closes. Look at the eyebrows, and the slight smile. It's not the emotionless smirk of Femto, nor the superficial, glowing smile of Griffith once reincarnated.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Marik

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2009, 04:47:03 PM »
Yes, but it's before Griff sheds his "final tear," en route to the Abyss. Which implies that not all of his emotion was gone just because he initiated the sacrificial ceremony.

I really don't see how you can't see emotion in his face there, just as the hand closes. Look at the eyebrows, and the slight smile. It's not the emotionless smirk of Femto, nor the superficial, glowing smile of Griffith once reincarnated.

In fact, I totally agree. That panel is one of the most expressive of the manga. There are so much feelings(and possible interpretations) that I don't think he is already Femto.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2009, 04:58:18 PM »
That panel is one of the most expressive of the manga.

Uhh... I disagree. It's not very expressive compared to the rest of what you can find in the manga. That doesn't mean it isn't great, but it's rather subtle.

There are so much feelings(and possible interpretations) that I don't think it is already Femto.

We know he's not Femto yet at that point because, you know, he hasn't been transformed yet. Anyway, I think Walter best described that glance in his first reply to the thread. People reading every emotion in the world in it are over-analyzing, IMHO.

Offline ori

Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2009, 11:28:41 PM »
For some reason whenever I look at that glance he makes. It appears as if he's thinking, "This is for your own good. Trust me."

I know sounds ridiculous. But I've had this thought in my head that Griffith has a plan unbeknownst to Guts and co. and the Godhand themselves.
"Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power. Through power I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken...."

Offline Irvine

Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2009, 11:05:54 PM »
Quote
This is for your own good. Trust me

And then he raped Casca in front of Guts' eyes.

Offline TheBranded1

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2009, 11:11:56 PM »
And then he raped Casca in front of Guts' eyes.

He was transformed into Femto at that time, so he wasn't the same old Griffith anymore.

Offline Armando

Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2009, 02:01:46 AM »
Like the time that Guts said goodbye and proof that he was a friend of Griffith ( By no means should someone let go of their dream... They must find a reason to live without being forced by anyone. And, if there is someone who tramples their dream, their entire body and soul should go towards standing up to hold onto it... Even if that person is myself... That's what a friend is to me... ). That was Griffith's time to say and proof it, and his eyes was saying something like that "Sorry, my friend."

Offline Master Finn

Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2013, 01:48:31 AM »
Honestly, I'm not sure it's as complicated as most people are thinking it to be.  I think he was just finally realizing and acknowledging Guts as not only his one true friend but his only true equal at that moment.  Then he just did what he said a friend ought to do to another friend in his eyes.

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2013, 05:12:31 PM »
Like the time that Guts said goodbye and proof that he was a friend of Griffith ( By no means should someone let go of their dream... They must find a reason to live without being forced by anyone. And, if there is someone who tramples their dream, their entire body and soul should go towards standing up to hold onto it... Even if that person is myself... That's what a friend is to me... ). That was Griffith's time to say and proof it, and his eyes was saying something like that "Sorry, my friend."
I don't know if I buy that. I don't think Griffith has ever truly accepted Guts as a friend. He's always just been a tool to be used in Griffith's scheme.

Offline Deci

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2013, 10:49:27 PM »
I don't know if I buy that. I don't think Griffith has ever truly accepted Guts as a friend. He's always just been a tool to be used in Griffith's scheme.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "truly accepted as a friend", but I'd argue that Guts is possibly one of the only people Griffith actually truly cared about  on a very deep level throughout the series. Surly he loved all of the Band of the Hawk dearly, or he'd not be able to sacrifice.

More than just relying on him heavily in missions, he'd look to Guts for reassurance, share lots of deep thoughts and beliefs, and friendly play around with him. He was also very fascinated with Guts and sometimes almost seemed jealous. With the addition of risking his own life multiple times for Guts I'd say they were pretty close to being brothers without sharing the same blood.

As for the final glance, there's a lot behind it, but I think I sense a bit of that reassurance that Guts used to provide him with... whenever he made a questionable decision in the name of achieving his dream, for instance.

Offline KazigluBey

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2013, 12:02:14 AM »
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "truly accepted as a friend", but I'd argue that Guts is possibly one of the only people Griffith actually truly cared about  on a very deep level throughout the series. Surly he loved all of the Band of the Hawk dearly, or he'd not be able to sacrifice.

More than just relying on him heavily in missions, he'd look to Guts for reassurance, share lots of deep thoughts and beliefs, and friendly play around with him. He was also very fascinated with Guts and sometimes almost seemed jealous. With the addition of risking his own life multiple times for Guts I'd say they were pretty close to being brothers without sharing the same blood.

As for the final glance, there's a lot behind it, but I think I sense a bit of that reassurance that Guts used to provide him with... whenever he made a questionable decision in the name of achieving his dream, for instance.

He may have had a deeper level of feeling for guts but I'm not so sure about the rest of the Band. In a lot of ways they were pieces on the board that were used towards his ultimate goal. In the end he put his ambition before his "friends". I don't think he hated anyone in the Band but he was definitely using them and using his charisma to make them completely loyal, minus Guts who wanted to follow his own dream. Sociopath might be too strong of a term but he definitely was close. Just look at what happened to Guts when he tried to leave. Griffith still said that Guts belonged to him, so deep down he considered him a powerful tool and chose his ambition over Guts' dreams or feelings.
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2013, 04:10:44 AM »
He may have had a deeper level of feeling for guts but I'm not so sure about the rest of the Band. In a lot of ways they were pieces on the board that were used towards his ultimate goal. In the end he put his ambition before his "friends". I don't think he hated anyone in the Band but he was definitely using them and using his charisma to make them completely loyal, minus Guts who wanted to follow his own dream. Sociopath might be too strong of a term but he definitely was close.

Keep in mind that the only way the Sacrifice works is if those sacrificed mean something deep to you.  I think it's even described as someone so close to you that it's like losing a part of yourself. Think back to the Count trying to sacrifice the Black Swordsman but instead being told that only his own daughter would do.  :femto:

Now consider that the way the God Hand tempts Griffith is that they play on his guilt over his fallen comrades.  He made himself cold and distant so as to lesson the loss, but it's heavily implied that he shouldered on his childhood ambitions because it had already cost so much.  He couldn't let his fallen comrades have died for nothing.  What was a few more who were already willing to die for him? It's the ultimate Sunk Cost Fallacy.  :judo:

Still not sure?  Check out the scene where he prostitutes himself to avoid unnecessary battles his comrades would have to take place in. He specifically says he did it to avoid his men having to die.  He kept them all at arms length to avoid the grief, but he definitely cared about them.  Guts and Casca probably the most.   :griffnotevil:

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2013, 04:10:26 PM »
Great post A-Bob. 

I can see how it's difficult for some people to reconcile the idea that Griffith really did care about his band (enough that they were such a powerful sacrifice for him to make) with the pretty much complete disrespect for things like Guts' choice to leave (to the point of being shattered, interpreting it as a terrible personal wound etc)...  But it's trivially easy to find that kind of warped care in the real world.  "I love you so much I'll kill all of you rather then lose you in some other way" is a story we see every once in a while in the real world in tragic murder-suicides.  All it really requires is for someone to be screwed up enough that whatever other life their loved ones could have had without them is dropped right down the bottomless pit of their own ego.  And when it happens in real life, those people are just plain checking out, as opposed to Griffith who at least was convinced there was something meaningful to be gained by it, and he could let himself imagine his men would respect the idea of dying for his dream, etc.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 07:41:24 PM by Lithrael »

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Griffith's Final Glance to Guts..
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2013, 07:53:02 PM »
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "truly accepted as a friend", but I'd argue that Guts is possibly one of the only people Griffith actually truly cared about  on a very deep level throughout the series. Surly he loved all of the Band of the Hawk dearly, or he'd not be able to sacrifice.
Don't get me wrong. He definitely had a powerful attachment to Guts and the Band. I just don't think Griffith ever considered Guts his equal as prescribed by the details he told Charlotte in episode 12.