I do see your points but I feel you're being a tad bit cynical with the aforementioned case file. Again, I'm sure we'll have SFIV revisions, but just like SFIII/SFII(hopefully not to that extreme again, and if so, well, it'd prove it was that good enough of a game originally I hope). Every "hint" we've had of SFIV (which has been about as rumor as the rumor mill allows on the internet) have shown that Capcom has given serious thought to it. Obviously like CnC and myself originally posted, I'm skeptical about how much of a line they're going to cross into "reviving 2D SF" and "Next-Gen/Future SF".Griffith No More! said:
Street Fighter IV
- Thread starter Aazealh
- Start date
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Yeah, that's the most interesting thing to me, how they're going to pull off the gameplay, giving it the same feel and style while making it something new and modern. Which, by the same token, is one of the reasons I'm skeptical of anything being really new; they walk a fine line, which is probably why if you're going to keep releasing the same 2D fighter, you rather keep releasing literally the same one than designing another to do the same thing. =)
berserker88
The Raging Demon
I swear it better be 2D with sprite animations being better than Accent Core, or at least on par. I dont, I repeat DONT want SFIV being 3D, no series that has started out 2D has ever survived the tradition to 3D. Mortal Kombat, KoF Maximum Impact anyone? Yeah they were horrible. Capcom stick to your roots...........please.
Guilty Gear 2 has made the jump to 3D. Though it's no longer just a fighting game, but a fighting real time strategy game.
Take a gander (article):
http://www.highervoltage.net/mb/showpost.php?p=708038&postcount=55
Trailers:
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/5508.html
Definitely different.
Take a gander (article):
http://www.highervoltage.net/mb/showpost.php?p=708038&postcount=55
Trailers:
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/5508.html
Definitely different.
berserker88
The Raging Demon
Well I know about Overature, but its not really a fighter and it hasnt come out yet, the game could be horrible. I hope it isnt but it could be, but seriously 2D fighters need to stay 2D.
Well again in all fairness, which was my initial point with you, if we cut out the 20,000 iterations of SF2, the Alpha and Ex series and just focus on the differences between SF1-SF2-SF3, they really did max out what they could do each time. I remember why SF3 second impact was being released, and the partial reason was the first arcade motherboard was being pushed so hard they couldn't handle a larger roster (CPS3 even) so yeah. Thus a decade later and them finally speaking of IVs, like you I'm skeptical about "how much" they're going to walk the line between "SF2" and "next gen". The only word we actually have on IV so far is its beginning development, which most likely means there's no engine to even base anything off of, and for some reason, Capcom -is- asking for polls/thoughts on the trailer when it debuted on the site (I'm pretty sure they still are) so maybe this is to test how people liked the stylized 3d and how many "NO, 2D!" rants they were getting.Griffith No More! said:
Omega Tom Hanks said:
Frankly I don't even see the point of Overture. Like SF, most people who play the game tend to do it just for the factor of gameplay, (like Walter's comment, wait, there's a story?) Like Capcom, Daisuke has obviously spent a massive time in that crazy head of his writing his self-masterpiece as to why Queen-themed left handed fire sword wielding pseudo badasses are fighting little catholic boys who have teddy bears and yo yos but managed to make countless heterosexual males gay without knowing his/it's true gender and apparently something about Justice's big penis really making "it" a female and Dizzy its daughter...
Yeah, Guilty Gear's story is just mind fuck. Daisuke has no other reason to deviate from gear's fighter routes (especially in favor of a tactical game?) unless he plans on taking the series elsewhere. Either way, it really is a "different" upgrade than expected, as to whether or not it sucks...
I don't see it getting "game of the year", that's for sure.
berserker88
The Raging Demon
Accent Core still owns.......lol. But I dont see capcom making the same mistake they made once before, and what SNK did also. DONT GO 3D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Yeah, I also veto the the full 3D. If they could push it in the other direction, take the detail of animation and the resolution to the limit, and basically make it like a playable anime, that would be far more impressive than... well, that ugly looking trailer (there's my vote on it, Capcom =).
Well, to be fair, prior to the Anniversary collection, SF2 only had 4 revisions. And the original needed to be revised, since it basically became a race to select Guile (With Dhalsim occasionally managing to pull off the upset).
As for SF4, I admit, I like 2D fighters better than 3D. SF2 is basically the foundation for every 2D fighting franchise. Sure other games have their own additions to the formula, but they all rely on the same basic gameplay features. So I would be more comfortable with it being 2D.
So if Capcom can pull off something similar for 3D fighters, I won't begrudge them that. Specifically, If they go 3D, I'm hoping they make a fighter that incorporates spacing and zoning much more into it than the current crop (which mostly rely on frame advantage). And has a combo system similar to 3rd Strike.
3rd Strike is animated better than GG (seriously, that game is damn smooth), but Guilty Gear has much higher resolution sprites.
One of the main problems 3rd Strike had was it's lack of availability on home consoles, since there was only a Dreamcast release before the Anniversary Collection came out. And it was far from arcade perfect, which hurt the sales among the big time fighter crowd.
As for SF4, I admit, I like 2D fighters better than 3D. SF2 is basically the foundation for every 2D fighting franchise. Sure other games have their own additions to the formula, but they all rely on the same basic gameplay features. So I would be more comfortable with it being 2D.
So if Capcom can pull off something similar for 3D fighters, I won't begrudge them that. Specifically, If they go 3D, I'm hoping they make a fighter that incorporates spacing and zoning much more into it than the current crop (which mostly rely on frame advantage). And has a combo system similar to 3rd Strike.
Omega Tom Hanks said:
3rd Strike is animated better than GG (seriously, that game is damn smooth), but Guilty Gear has much higher resolution sprites.
One of the main problems 3rd Strike had was it's lack of availability on home consoles, since there was only a Dreamcast release before the Anniversary Collection came out. And it was far from arcade perfect, which hurt the sales among the big time fighter crowd.
Woland said:
But HD Remix will have yet higher resolution sprites. Anyway, I'm not necessarily against the use of 3D for the game. They could very well make it 3D-on-a-2D-plane and I think it'd look and feel good to play.
Woland said:
And also Capcom didn't advertise it at all.
Aazealh said:
HD Remix will have the same animations but with higher rez sprites. They're not really re-inventing anything, but it still looks like it'll be nice.
I'm joining the anti-3d bandwagon on this new one. I think the SF needs to differentiate itself from other fighters like Virtua Fighter and Tekken, which would probably do the 3d fighting game better.
CnC said:
Well it's not about resembling it or not, there's just a point where sprites reach a limit and it's hard to go further. Using 3D while keeping the game a 2D-styled fighter would require a lot less work from the animators for example, which means there could be more characters or more work on the rest of the game. It wouldn't be the first game to do it either, for example New Super Mario Bros uses 3D and it's not a 3D platformer at all, rather it's pretty old school.
Aazealh said:
I don't think anyone's arguing that relying on the computer's interpolation between keyframes would be less work should the game be 3d. My stance is that I would prefer a 2d fighter when it comes to Street Fighter. I don't think it's reached it's limit as much as you say, since that's been the argument since 3d fighters were first introduced. Plenty of good looking 2D games have come out since then, anyways.
I meant to mention this earlier, but Capcom really needs to release Marvel vs. Capcom 2 as a downloadable. That game is _still_ in demand.
CnC said:
No but you guys seem to be saying that any use of 3D would denature the game and I don't think it's true. Plenty of 2D games successfully include 3D elements nowadays and I don't see why fighting games would be an exception.
CnC said:
Indeed, it's still incredibly fun.
berserker88
The Raging Demon
Yeah like Griffith said, push it till it looks like a playable anime, thats what I want and I think the next step in 2D fighters will be regardless. Its big competitor though is gonna be KoF 12. SNK has finally decided to redraw and make high res sprites on all there characters. Capcom answered the call with SF IV
I'm siding with Aazealh on this one, I actually want SF4 to be more like the teaser. Even though it was fairly mediocre, the Maximum Impact series proved the "2d style" gameplay could be done in 3D, even the EX series (namely 3rd one) did pretty good on it though with a few production problems. Guilty Gear met my "playable anime fighter" years ago. If they do stay 2d, I hope its stylized as possible (much like the trailer) and less of just hi-res anime-sprites a la GG and Turbo HD. In other words, a complete case of "Rising the bar" for 2d in general, let alone fighters. Still as mentioned already nothing's been seen of actual game criteria, and since its in early stages of development, they're probably waiting for all praise/negatives the teaser received.Aazealh said:
Phoenix Wrong! said:
Besides, for those of us craving for a game that's just like an anime, there's always Arcana Heart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfsqKHTUuaY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt5RWFXADcU
CnC said:or... if you're more in the mood for a 2d/3d mix game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUaZIHo1IRg
SFEX3 was even better on that note, and slightly before that Project Justice (sequel to rival schools) came out and, like SFIII, one of the most over looked Capcom fighters. However, again, Capcom's 3d fighters are "dated" in the sense of comparing how many 2d hi-res guilty gears we've had sense then...I seriously have enough faith in the SF series and Capcom's judgment if they think after all the "2d!" demands to go 3d, just like when RE4 abandoned its basic gameplay elements and core story (Well, though the latter was less "developed", so to speak).
Those thinking the 3d anime fighter isn't worth it or Capcom can't stray from 2d Fighters, hopefully will find more faith here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqgIEV_1FVU