Griffith needed Guts' help?
- Thread starter ironman
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Hi, I modified the thread title so it'd be more explicit, hope you don't mind.
I'm not too sure about that. More apostles would have died, but at worst Zodd could have escaped, and we don't really know what Griffith had planned. Maybe he was just waiting for dawn and the apostles were only supposed to occupy Ganishka till then.
Of course, regardless of that, I do perceive the irony of Guts serving Griffith's interests, even indirectly. I think everybody does.
ironman said:
I'm not too sure about that. More apostles would have died, but at worst Zodd could have escaped, and we don't really know what Griffith had planned. Maybe he was just waiting for dawn and the apostles were only supposed to occupy Ganishka till then.
Of course, regardless of that, I do perceive the irony of Guts serving Griffith's interests, even indirectly. I think everybody does.
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
Eh, I would just say its coincidence. Griffith doesn't need help at all in defeating Ganishka. Ganishka almost pee in his pants the moment he saw Griffith approaching him.
The group of apostles which Zodd lead to attack happen when Ganishka appear to confront Guts group. This raised the question that maybe it wasn't coincidental at all. Griffith might well knew about the hidden power in Guts's DS or something (not surprising since Slann was wounded by it even)
Eh, I would just say its coincidence. Griffith doesn't need help at all in defeating Ganishka. Ganishka almost pee in his pants the moment he saw Griffith approaching him.
The group of apostles which Zodd lead to attack happen when Ganishka appear to confront Guts group. This raised the question that maybe it wasn't coincidental at all. Griffith might well knew about the hidden power in Guts's DS or something (not surprising since Slann was wounded by it even)
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
The result of Ganishka's first defeat was that he was driven out, and the apostles and Griffith were able to occupy the city. That must have been the goal. I do not think this would have been possible without Guts because Ganishka, short of a strong wind blowing would not have been knocked back to allow apostles in the city (the wind which I am sure Griffith was counting on, in the second mist encounter.)
How much longer could Zodd distract Ganishka while waiting for a wind? And does Zodd seem like the type who 'escapes'? Parting on equal conditions yes, but I don't think he would ever flee.
I think it's more a case of Griffith STILL needing Guts to succeed, rather than just being a mere pebble in the path that served Griffith's interest indirectly this one time.
Your claim supports what I said in my post. Griffith needed Guts. Whether he used Guts for his sword and had it all planned out or whether it was a coincidence... the equation included Guts.
Aazealh said:
The result of Ganishka's first defeat was that he was driven out, and the apostles and Griffith were able to occupy the city. That must have been the goal. I do not think this would have been possible without Guts because Ganishka, short of a strong wind blowing would not have been knocked back to allow apostles in the city (the wind which I am sure Griffith was counting on, in the second mist encounter.)
How much longer could Zodd distract Ganishka while waiting for a wind? And does Zodd seem like the type who 'escapes'? Parting on equal conditions yes, but I don't think he would ever flee.
I think it's more a case of Griffith STILL needing Guts to succeed, rather than just being a mere pebble in the path that served Griffith's interest indirectly this one time.
Smith said:
Your claim supports what I said in my post. Griffith needed Guts. Whether he used Guts for his sword and had it all planned out or whether it was a coincidence... the equation included Guts.
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
Zodd didn't know Guts and his friends were there. His orders were to clean the city of the familiars invading it. It was his own decision to attack Ganishka when he saw him, then later to cooperate with Guts (not that Guts didn't insist), just like it was his decision to let him go after the fight.
Slan wasn't wounded.
Neither Griffith nor his troops did at any point occupy the city. Some apostles raided it to kill the Kushan troops that had invaded, namely the Pishacha and Daka, then they retreated. What Guts did was to precipitate the end of their nightly assault and give Ganishka a big scar.
Ganishka wasn't in the city per se, he was more on the sea. And he only appeared because Guts and co defeated Daiba in the first place. Anyway, it's unlikely that Ganishka would have kept his mist form during the day, considering his declarations and actions. As for the wind, there's no reason to think Griffith couldn't repeat the trick anytime he wanted. It's not like it was down to luck.
Smith said:
Zodd didn't know Guts and his friends were there. His orders were to clean the city of the familiars invading it. It was his own decision to attack Ganishka when he saw him, then later to cooperate with Guts (not that Guts didn't insist), just like it was his decision to let him go after the fight.
Smith said:
Slan wasn't wounded.
ironman said:
Neither Griffith nor his troops did at any point occupy the city. Some apostles raided it to kill the Kushan troops that had invaded, namely the Pishacha and Daka, then they retreated. What Guts did was to precipitate the end of their nightly assault and give Ganishka a big scar.
ironman said:
Ganishka wasn't in the city per se, he was more on the sea. And he only appeared because Guts and co defeated Daiba in the first place. Anyway, it's unlikely that Ganishka would have kept his mist form during the day, considering his declarations and actions. As for the wind, there's no reason to think Griffith couldn't repeat the trick anytime he wanted. It's not like it was down to luck.
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
Are you suggesting that Griffith has control over weather? I think its more likely Griffith predicted that there would be a wind (with maybe a little help from Sonia).
And sticking to the main point, what do you suppose may have happened in the city had Guts and company not been there? How else would Ganishka be driven out?
Imagine this scenario. If Guts and company had not been there, the apostles alone would have faced the daka and pishacha, followed by Daiba and his Kundalini pet, followed by Ganishaka. Lets assume the apostles defeat everyone except Ganishka, who is still in mist form in the city. Now since Guts isn't there, it takes the apostles longer to get to Ganishka since they have to face all those monsters as well that Guts defeated. By that time the wind that Griffith would be counting on would arrive. I am assuming ofcourse that Griffith predicted this weather unless you can prove otherwise. This would knock out Ganishka's mist in a more peaceful manner than having Guts stab his sword in it, but nevertheless the wind would be over by that point. This would have given Ganishka the second chance on the battle field that he didn't get when Guts ruined everything.
Aazealh said:
Are you suggesting that Griffith has control over weather? I think its more likely Griffith predicted that there would be a wind (with maybe a little help from Sonia).
And sticking to the main point, what do you suppose may have happened in the city had Guts and company not been there? How else would Ganishka be driven out?
Imagine this scenario. If Guts and company had not been there, the apostles alone would have faced the daka and pishacha, followed by Daiba and his Kundalini pet, followed by Ganishaka. Lets assume the apostles defeat everyone except Ganishka, who is still in mist form in the city. Now since Guts isn't there, it takes the apostles longer to get to Ganishka since they have to face all those monsters as well that Guts defeated. By that time the wind that Griffith would be counting on would arrive. I am assuming ofcourse that Griffith predicted this weather unless you can prove otherwise. This would knock out Ganishka's mist in a more peaceful manner than having Guts stab his sword in it, but nevertheless the wind would be over by that point. This would have given Ganishka the second chance on the battle field that he didn't get when Guts ruined everything.
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
The extent of Griffith's power isn't known. His abilities have already proven to be miraculous irregardless of Sonia's presence. So you don't have anything to go on when you suggest what is more likely.
You make a lot of assumptions based on imagined scenarios.
Like Aaz said in his first reply to you, it's ironic that Guts' attempt to flee the city helped Griffith, but to go any farther and state that was crucial to Griffith's success is a stretch.
ironman said:
The extent of Griffith's power isn't known. His abilities have already proven to be miraculous irregardless of Sonia's presence. So you don't have anything to go on when you suggest what is more likely.
ironman said:
You make a lot of assumptions based on imagined scenarios.
Like Aaz said in his first reply to you, it's ironic that Guts' attempt to flee the city helped Griffith, but to go any farther and state that was crucial to Griffith's success is a stretch.
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
What I do know about Griffith's powers, is that they are very much limited in the mortal realm. In the Godhand realm whatever it's called, he can do anything, but he can't in the mortal world, which is why he needs soldiers to fight for him.
So, to be able to control wind to me seems a stretch. What's next? Calling forth a meteor shower to wipe his enemies off the face of the planet? No he can't do that. He is also killable in the mortal world.
It is far more likely that Griffith planned that. He's reliant more on his brains and charisma than his super powers in the mortal world.
CnC said:
What I do know about Griffith's powers, is that they are very much limited in the mortal realm. In the Godhand realm whatever it's called, he can do anything, but he can't in the mortal world, which is why he needs soldiers to fight for him.
So, to be able to control wind to me seems a stretch. What's next? Calling forth a meteor shower to wipe his enemies off the face of the planet? No he can't do that. He is also killable in the mortal world.
It is far more likely that Griffith planned that. He's reliant more on his brains and charisma than his super powers in the mortal world.
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
I'm afraid, once again, you aren't basing your argument on anything. What Griffith can and cannot do aren't stated.
Even in the mortal realm Griffith is an otherworldly being, as what has been said in the manga. And all that is known of his abilities are the miracles that have happened around him, nothing more. So once again, your use of "more likely" is unfounded.
ironman said:
I'm afraid, once again, you aren't basing your argument on anything. What Griffith can and cannot do aren't stated.
Even in the mortal realm Griffith is an otherworldly being, as what has been said in the manga. And all that is known of his abilities are the miracles that have happened around him, nothing more. So once again, your use of "more likely" is unfounded.
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
Name one miracle at the scope of wind summoning powers aside from Griffith being able to leap great distances on his horse, deflecting arrows with his...charisma thing, and appearing in peoples' dreams. The mock eclipse doesn't qualify.
On the other hand, you have tons of evidence that Griffith is very intelligent, a superb tactician, and comes up with the most cunning schemes to win. This could just be one of those times.
"Griffith is an otherworldly being." So are the apostles. Griffith is an otherworldly being in a mortal body, without all of his godhand powers. If he were so powerful, he wouldn't need those armies. Zodd is his personal bodyguard and his flight carrier. So much for not having information to base my assumptions on.
Anyway this argument is going in an unpleasant direction. I wanted to make this about Guts! About how ironic it was that he is still a significant 'pebble' in the path for Godhand Griffith like he was for human griffith (oldschool hawk version)
CnC said:
Name one miracle at the scope of wind summoning powers aside from Griffith being able to leap great distances on his horse, deflecting arrows with his...charisma thing, and appearing in peoples' dreams. The mock eclipse doesn't qualify.
On the other hand, you have tons of evidence that Griffith is very intelligent, a superb tactician, and comes up with the most cunning schemes to win. This could just be one of those times.
"Griffith is an otherworldly being." So are the apostles. Griffith is an otherworldly being in a mortal body, without all of his godhand powers. If he were so powerful, he wouldn't need those armies. Zodd is his personal bodyguard and his flight carrier. So much for not having information to base my assumptions on.
Anyway this argument is going in an unpleasant direction. I wanted to make this about Guts! About how ironic it was that he is still a significant 'pebble' in the path for Godhand Griffith like he was for human griffith (oldschool hawk version)
whether anot he need those armies we do not know anyway. He could have limited power instead of you saying losing all his GH ability?
Griffth needed an army because he was going also against an huge army, not a one-on-one fight against Ganishka. On top of that he could jolly well have the power to do a one-man show against the entire army, however he still need one. Reason is simple. What would people of midland think of Griffith if he actually defeat the entire army including Ganishka alone? They will living in fear rather than in awe under the rulership of Griffth (Assuming Griffith became the king eventually)
Griffth needed an army because he was going also against an huge army, not a one-on-one fight against Ganishka. On top of that he could jolly well have the power to do a one-man show against the entire army, however he still need one. Reason is simple. What would people of midland think of Griffith if he actually defeat the entire army including Ganishka alone? They will living in fear rather than in awe under the rulership of Griffth (Assuming Griffith became the king eventually)
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
Haha, so if you ignore all of those miraculous occasions you can't think of anything Griffith has been involved in that would be considered a miracle? So based on this you can impose arbitrary limitations on Griffith's power. Your reasoning is flawless.
I wasn't referring to Griffith's ability as a tactician, 'cause honestly thats so obvious it really doesn't need a thread to discuss it. I was referring to your newfound knowledge of what Griffith's powers are or aren't.
You don't think there's anything supernatural about the apostles, either??
You don't know what powers he has or doesn't have. So please stop bringing it up like you do.
Listen I'm not arguing that I think that Griffith is all powerful or omnipotent. But I do recognize that there isn't enough info on any limitations that he might have to say what is "more likely".
Griffith's intends to have his own kingdom. Having created an army, securing the nobility and the holy see isn't evidence that he isn't powerful rather that he's doing what needs to be done to achieve his goals the best way.
Your logic is akin to the old "because Guts' ears are pointed, its more likely that he's part elf (or whatever it was)"-debate.
Like Aaz stated at the very beginning, Guts involvement may not have as significant to Griffith as you say.
ironman said:
Haha, so if you ignore all of those miraculous occasions you can't think of anything Griffith has been involved in that would be considered a miracle? So based on this you can impose arbitrary limitations on Griffith's power. Your reasoning is flawless.
ironman said:
I wasn't referring to Griffith's ability as a tactician, 'cause honestly thats so obvious it really doesn't need a thread to discuss it. I was referring to your newfound knowledge of what Griffith's powers are or aren't.
ironman said:
You don't think there's anything supernatural about the apostles, either??
ironman said:
You don't know what powers he has or doesn't have. So please stop bringing it up like you do.
ironman said:
Listen I'm not arguing that I think that Griffith is all powerful or omnipotent. But I do recognize that there isn't enough info on any limitations that he might have to say what is "more likely".
Griffith's intends to have his own kingdom. Having created an army, securing the nobility and the holy see isn't evidence that he isn't powerful rather that he's doing what needs to be done to achieve his goals the best way.
Your logic is akin to the old "because Guts' ears are pointed, its more likely that he's part elf (or whatever it was)"-debate.
ironman said:
Like Aaz stated at the very beginning, Guts involvement may not have as significant to Griffith as you say.
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
*Edit*
CnC beat me too it aswell 
I got a better idea, show us one example where Griffith Cannot use his Godhand powers. Any example were we see his limits.
Smith beat me to it >_<'
Zodd being his personal bodyguard doesn't prove your point.
So far a lot of Griffiths plans and actions revolved around his image, how the people see him, and what they think of him. If he just blasted Ganishka and his army, he would be seen as some monster super being and that wouldn't justify him being king. He's creating a scenario where the people will want him to be king, no questions asked.
For all we know, he might even turn out to be a just ruler. (When Mule joined with Griffith, he noticed that the people were happy even in an army camp) P.s. some of that was Speculation.
P.S.S .. just out of curiosity, have you actually read the manga?
*Edit*
CnC beat me too it aswell ironman said:
I got a better idea, show us one example where Griffith Cannot use his Godhand powers. Any example were we see his limits.
ironman said:
Smith beat me to it >_<'
Zodd being his personal bodyguard doesn't prove your point.
So far a lot of Griffiths plans and actions revolved around his image, how the people see him, and what they think of him. If he just blasted Ganishka and his army, he would be seen as some monster super being and that wouldn't justify him being king. He's creating a scenario where the people will want him to be king, no questions asked.
For all we know, he might even turn out to be a just ruler. (When Mule joined with Griffith, he noticed that the people were happy even in an army camp) P.s. some of that was Speculation.
P.S.S .. just out of curiosity, have you actually read the manga?
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
Ofcourse the apostles are supernatural. Griffith is obviously supernatural in his own way.
True. But I'm just speculating from the clues. I could be wrong, I just thought it would be an interesting thought to share. A different perspective.
why not? It shows that griffith needs people to protect him. He wouldn't need that in his own realm.
Griffith's appearance in the dreams of people as a white hawk has convinced most people that he is their savior. So much so that even the pope acted like Griffith was some messiah. Griffith can do anything now and nobody would object. That's what's so special about Griffith now. He has a divine like quality about him which people can't deny.
Oh no I haven't. I figured out who Ganishka was and knew about the mock eclipse from using my psycho divination powers.
CnC said:Haha, so if you ignore all of those miraculous occasions you can't think of anything Griffith has been involved in that would be considered a miracle? So based on this you can impose arbitrary limitations on Griffith's power. Your reasoning is flawless.
I wasn't referring to Griffith's ability as a tactician, 'cause honestly thats so obvious it really doesn't need a thread to discuss it. I was referring to your newfound knowledge of what Griffith's powers are or aren't.
You don't think there's anything supernatural about the apostles, either??
Ofcourse the apostles are supernatural. Griffith is obviously supernatural in his own way.
True. But I'm just speculating from the clues. I could be wrong, I just thought it would be an interesting thought to share. A different perspective.
Ramen4ever said:
why not? It shows that griffith needs people to protect him. He wouldn't need that in his own realm.
Griffith's appearance in the dreams of people as a white hawk has convinced most people that he is their savior. So much so that even the pope acted like Griffith was some messiah. Griffith can do anything now and nobody would object. That's what's so special about Griffith now. He has a divine like quality about him which people can't deny.
Oh no I haven't. I figured out who Ganishka was and knew about the mock eclipse from using my psycho divination powers.
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
And that why when you said "more likely", I objected. The speculation wasn't where I took issue (as this has been discussed before), but what you cited as evidence was a stretch.
You've taken "has use for" and changed it to "need" without knowing why.
Your powers have limits
ironman said:
And that why when you said "more likely", I objected. The speculation wasn't where I took issue (as this has been discussed before), but what you cited as evidence was a stretch.
ironman said:
You've taken "has use for" and changed it to "need" without knowing why.
ironman said:
Your powers have limits
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
I'm not sure about needing someone to protect him, as far as we know, Griffith defeat Zodd in the material world. Being able to dodge every arrow from the Kushan army back in vol22, I dont see him needing Zodd protection at all.
And yes, when Griffith pay a nice little visit to Ganishka, we didnt see the good old muscular Zodd beside him preparing to block himself in front of Griffith should Ganishka prepare to zap him. Lets leave Zodd aside (let assume he haven't recovered from the previous battle with Guts), do you see any "bodyguard(s)" around Griffith during that time?
The moment we saw Ganishka reaction upon seeing Griffith face to face, we all know that he doesn't really need a bodyguard.
ironman said:
I'm not sure about needing someone to protect him, as far as we know, Griffith defeat Zodd in the material world. Being able to dodge every arrow from the Kushan army back in vol22, I dont see him needing Zodd protection at all.
And yes, when Griffith pay a nice little visit to Ganishka, we didnt see the good old muscular Zodd beside him preparing to block himself in front of Griffith should Ganishka prepare to zap him. Lets leave Zodd aside (let assume he haven't recovered from the previous battle with Guts), do you see any "bodyguard(s)" around Griffith during that time?
The moment we saw Ganishka reaction upon seeing Griffith face to face, we all know that he doesn't really need a bodyguard.
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
From what we've seen Griffith doesn't need a bodyguard against normal soldiers or even Ganishka. However he did send a small army of apostles to kill Flora. Chances are he has bodyguards in-case magic users try to attack him. *speculation*
From what we've seen Griffith doesn't need a bodyguard against normal soldiers or even Ganishka. However he did send a small army of apostles to kill Flora. Chances are he has bodyguards in-case magic users try to attack him. *speculation*
Re: Griffith still needs Guts' help?
Well, Ganishka himself thought of it, so yes, I'm suggesting it. Tell me, did Griffith also predict Ganishka would turn into fog at that precise moment? He timed the whole thing perfectly to the second, meaning he also predicted when the Kushan armies would attack, how long it'd take him to get to Ganishka, etc? Doesn't sound "more likely" at all to me. I'm not even saying it's definitely what happened, I just want you to realize that you shouldn't be so categoric about things we don't know for sure.
Please read my posts when replying to them. Ganishka doesn't seem inclined to transform into fog in bright day. There are many possible reasons for this (for example, not wanting to scare his own troops that aren't aware he's a monster), but the fact remains. This means he wouldn't have kept his fog form once the day would have come. I mean, it's not like he couldn't possibly have transformed again from what we've seen, since he did when Griffith showed up. There are details left unknown of course, like the scale of his foggy figure and all, but I won't get into that. So yeah basically, he'd never be there as a giant cloudy monster while his troops would attack, because he couldn't maneuver them properly and they'd freak out just like any other soldiers. Also, once more, Ganishka wasn't in the city itself but over the sea.
Now, again, why did Ganishka appear in the first place? Because of Guts & co. Had the apostles just remained in the city, slaying Daka and Pishacha that ventured too far, we're not even sure he would have shown himself. In fact, they might not even have confronted Daiba, who wouldn't have underestimated apostles like he did Guts' group. And if he had done so, he'd have been killed quickly (at the price of a couple expendable apostles maybe? At most.). If Guts and his friends hadn't saved Vandimion and the other nobles (who Griffith didn't seem to care about, assuming he wasn't actually bothered by their survival), it's possible Ganishka wouldn't even have cared, the main targets being dead already. Given the delay between the Kushan raid and the apostles counterattack, the city would have been sufficiently wrecked by then, something that wouldn't really have influenced Griffith's victory. Not to mention that the city was wrecked anyway.
As you can see there are tons of possibilities, so if I were you I wouldn't be so sure of myself. Like I said earlier, there's no need to be so categorical about it.
No, I'm sorry but you don't know that. It's an error to think so. Because Griffith has an army doesn't mean his powers are especially limited.
Obviously you don't really know what you're talking about here. It seems you missed some elements in the story, and you haven't thought things over enough either. Your idea of "predicting" that the wind would blow at a specific time implies that everything else was perfectly timed, which is in itself a far greater feat than just calling forth a strong wind. Besides, the way the events took place make it look like it was more than just a coincidence. The wind started unnaturally, all of a sudden and not progressively, and was strong enough to blow off the fog. Anyway, I recommend you to re-read everything in the manga concerning Griffith since the incarnation. And about Griffith being killable, allow me to quote a wise man on the matter:
Remember that time with the arrows?
How about the time he summoned the souls of dead people?
Guts was never a "pebble" for Griffith. It's Griffith's defeat at the hands of Guts that is qualified so. That's quite a difference.
To be precise, it's "Hawk of Light". "White Hawk" is how he was/is called as a general by people.
ironman said:
Well, Ganishka himself thought of it, so yes, I'm suggesting it. Tell me, did Griffith also predict Ganishka would turn into fog at that precise moment? He timed the whole thing perfectly to the second, meaning he also predicted when the Kushan armies would attack, how long it'd take him to get to Ganishka, etc? Doesn't sound "more likely" at all to me. I'm not even saying it's definitely what happened, I just want you to realize that you shouldn't be so categoric about things we don't know for sure.
ironman said:
Please read my posts when replying to them. Ganishka doesn't seem inclined to transform into fog in bright day. There are many possible reasons for this (for example, not wanting to scare his own troops that aren't aware he's a monster), but the fact remains. This means he wouldn't have kept his fog form once the day would have come. I mean, it's not like he couldn't possibly have transformed again from what we've seen, since he did when Griffith showed up. There are details left unknown of course, like the scale of his foggy figure and all, but I won't get into that. So yeah basically, he'd never be there as a giant cloudy monster while his troops would attack, because he couldn't maneuver them properly and they'd freak out just like any other soldiers. Also, once more, Ganishka wasn't in the city itself but over the sea.
Now, again, why did Ganishka appear in the first place? Because of Guts & co. Had the apostles just remained in the city, slaying Daka and Pishacha that ventured too far, we're not even sure he would have shown himself. In fact, they might not even have confronted Daiba, who wouldn't have underestimated apostles like he did Guts' group. And if he had done so, he'd have been killed quickly (at the price of a couple expendable apostles maybe? At most.). If Guts and his friends hadn't saved Vandimion and the other nobles (who Griffith didn't seem to care about, assuming he wasn't actually bothered by their survival), it's possible Ganishka wouldn't even have cared, the main targets being dead already. Given the delay between the Kushan raid and the apostles counterattack, the city would have been sufficiently wrecked by then, something that wouldn't really have influenced Griffith's victory. Not to mention that the city was wrecked anyway.
As you can see there are tons of possibilities, so if I were you I wouldn't be so sure of myself. Like I said earlier, there's no need to be so categorical about it.
ironman said:
No, I'm sorry but you don't know that. It's an error to think so. Because Griffith has an army doesn't mean his powers are especially limited.
ironman said:
Obviously you don't really know what you're talking about here. It seems you missed some elements in the story, and you haven't thought things over enough either. Your idea of "predicting" that the wind would blow at a specific time implies that everything else was perfectly timed, which is in itself a far greater feat than just calling forth a strong wind. Besides, the way the events took place make it look like it was more than just a coincidence. The wind started unnaturally, all of a sudden and not progressively, and was strong enough to blow off the fog. Anyway, I recommend you to re-read everything in the manga concerning Griffith since the incarnation. And about Griffith being killable, allow me to quote a wise man on the matter:
Aazealh said:
Remember that time with the arrows?
ironman said:
How about the time he summoned the souls of dead people?
ironman said:
Guts was never a "pebble" for Griffith. It's Griffith's defeat at the hands of Guts that is qualified so. That's quite a difference.
ironman said:
To be precise, it's "Hawk of Light". "White Hawk" is how he was/is called as a general by people.
Griffith is currently the most powerful being in the plane of reality within which he currently exists. That being so, he likely exerts more control over 'causality' than any other being in that plane, balanced, perhaps, if that's even the word for it, by Gut's existance. Though that would be giving Guts far too much credit.
The other godhand memebers, of course, and various other 'higher beings' reside on different, higher/lower planes of reality, though Griffith's presence is causing some of those layers to merge a bit. That being said, aside from simple physical/mystical power, I think Griffith's current greatest power is his almost unconcious control over events, over causality. His dream is to become king of Midland, and that simple desire, with the power he holds, is enough to cause the reality around him to conform to his desires.
At least, going by the previous events of the manga, that seems the simplest explanation. As to what happens once the driving dream that caused him to undergo his rebirth in the first place is attained, well, all the various hints (well, quite a bit more direct than simple 'hints') that we've received so far, indicate that events are about to take quite a darker turn. Becoming King of Midland had driven Griffith this far, has caused him to sacrafice and gain so much - once attained, his power will remain unchanged, but as to an outlet, lacking something so clear and direct, may become quite more directly twisted indeed.
That being said, I sometimes wonder, reading some of these comments, if people are reading the same manga that I am. Kudos to Aazealh and Walter and other for keeping things on track.
The other godhand memebers, of course, and various other 'higher beings' reside on different, higher/lower planes of reality, though Griffith's presence is causing some of those layers to merge a bit. That being said, aside from simple physical/mystical power, I think Griffith's current greatest power is his almost unconcious control over events, over causality. His dream is to become king of Midland, and that simple desire, with the power he holds, is enough to cause the reality around him to conform to his desires.
At least, going by the previous events of the manga, that seems the simplest explanation. As to what happens once the driving dream that caused him to undergo his rebirth in the first place is attained, well, all the various hints (well, quite a bit more direct than simple 'hints') that we've received so far, indicate that events are about to take quite a darker turn. Becoming King of Midland had driven Griffith this far, has caused him to sacrafice and gain so much - once attained, his power will remain unchanged, but as to an outlet, lacking something so clear and direct, may become quite more directly twisted indeed.
That being said, I sometimes wonder, reading some of these comments, if people are reading the same manga that I am. Kudos to Aazealh and Walter and other for keeping things on track.