Author Topic: Episode 291  (Read 30090 times)

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Offline becchii

Re: Episode 291
« Reply #100 on: November 13, 2007, 01:41:05 PM »
Oh bleah, I can't believe I'm so late to read it...

Woohoo, it's Foss-dono. Plus the pope (am I the only one who thinks he looks hilarious? Maybe my mind's just warped but he looked like an excited fangirl this episode.) And every time people harp on about how awesome and sexy Griffith is I find the contrast of the darkness to come more and more exciting (in some way). Swooping down from the skies like a brave hero only to pick up your children and eat them.

The kid did say the 'Kushan soldiers and beasts' would disappear along with the mist shrouding Wyndham, I figure that'll be the general mass of the Kushan army... then the final battle between Ganishka and Griffith would be the dawn-being-shrouded-by-evil-many-handed-thing? Left for last?..
Why does the kid say that after the mist disappears before the fake dawn, everyone must be taken out of Wyndham? If the dream is alluding to an actual battle between the Gs, what would Ganishka (presumably on his own) do to all the citizens that wasn't done while his lackeys got spirited away with the mist? I could think that either Ganishka would actually destroy the whole city with fire, or a much less certain theory would be that Griffith doesn't want the populace to see what he might truly transform into (...nah)

I saw a mention of Charlotte's future wedding to Griffith; I'd love to see the detailed art for that one! :D (edit: if it happens)

And many thanks for the scans.
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Offline hanafubuku

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Re: Episode 291
« Reply #101 on: November 14, 2007, 05:25:11 AM »
It's (the big shadow) Ganishka, and it could be his apostle form.

I thought it was Ganishka too - on a bad beard day.

Wow, wouldn't that kind of suck once Guts decides to take out Griffith?  I mean, he would probably have to mow down all of his new supporters :/

Be perfect for :beast: though :>  ummmm... kids - delicious!
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Re: Episode 291
« Reply #102 on: November 15, 2007, 06:23:17 PM »
       It seems that Sonia is like the Casca in the new band of the hawks. Hope she doesn t end up like  :???:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 291
« Reply #103 on: November 15, 2007, 07:19:23 PM »
It seems that Sonia is like the Casca in the new band of the hawks.

How so?

Online Walter

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Re: Episode 291
« Reply #104 on: November 15, 2007, 08:55:17 PM »
How so?
Pining for Griffith though Charlotte is clearly in the way? In that sense, I'd agree that she's taken up the mantle of hopeless romantic.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 291
« Reply #105 on: November 16, 2007, 02:28:19 AM »
No no, it's because they wear similar helmets. :carcus:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 291
« Reply #106 on: November 16, 2007, 03:25:04 AM »
No no, it's because they wear similar helmets. :carcus:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.  Now I see it.

Pining for Griffith though Charlotte is clearly in the way? In that sense, I'd agree that she's taken up the mantle of hopeless romantic.

Didn't even think of that. :griff:


Offline Jaze1618

Re: Episode 291
« Reply #107 on: November 16, 2007, 03:53:03 AM »
I would also suggest that because she can't be with griffith she still gets some satisfaction of from being useful to him "someone he can not do without."

While we the reader know that Griffith has causality on his side she can still feel that she is vital and irreplaceable in helping him achieve his dream.

Offline Cruella

Re: Episode 291
« Reply #108 on: November 16, 2007, 10:52:34 PM »
What a gorgeous, haunting episode!

Awww, dead rotting bodies, how I missed you, my darlings!
(gosh, I sound like a total freak).

Great shot with a clearing mist. I almost forgot that Foss has a daughter. I hope nothing happens to her.

Pontiff got situation pretty well actually. About fate and everything.

Stop crushing on Griff, Sonia. He's much older! And a diabolical messiah of evil, that, too.

Offline Skeleton

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Re: Episode 291
« Reply #109 on: November 17, 2007, 01:03:12 AM »
Awww, dead rotting bodies, how I missed you, my darlings!


Offline Okin

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Re: Episode 291
« Reply #110 on: November 17, 2007, 04:25:59 AM »
Guts + Musashi = Brave Fencer Musashi

 :???:

You forgot something



The hair...seriously though how'd you guys find these parallels? I've seen/played all four of these shows/games, and never would I connect the protagonists on my own.

On topic, this all seems to be wrapping things up for Griffith's rule, leaving Guts and co. as the last thing on Griffs to do list for all we know. But now I have a question to ask.

Will Griffith win in the usual way with an impeccable strategy and perfect execution, or do you think he will really show some other-worldly abilities as the prophecies and premonitions seem to indicate? I can't think of a practical method of clearing a completely black sky with medieval technology or even now. It could always be done subtely to I guess.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 291
« Reply #111 on: November 17, 2007, 03:50:53 PM »
I don't mean literally every territory on the entire planet, I was mainly thinking of the territories in the Kushan Empire.  Midland was just the latest conquest by the Kushan Empire they had deteated many people's before that and they were the cruel masters I meant.  The Holy See Alliance would be duty bound to support this too as it is in effect an anti Kushan crusade even if some members had more purely practical concerns when they join.

I see. Well, we don't really know if the Kushans conquered a lot of land before Midland, so this is all very speculative. Besides, I would expect the entire empire to collapse without Ganishka to rule it with an iron hand, so in any case I'm not sure a "crusade" would be warranted. I don't really see this scenario happening honestly, plus we've seen that without a reward the Holy See alliance just doesn't seem to care, so Griffith would have to subjugate them first.

As for the need for Griffith to start to show his evil side, if you think about it, so much of what's happened would be totally pointless if the God Hand only wanted to turn the world into an apostle slaughter fest.  The Apostles have sshown how ineffective human armies are against them and the Kushan Empire forged by only 1 apostle is threating all the established human kingdoms.  If the objective was merely to overthrow th human kingdoms and let Apostles kill and eat poeple and terrorise the people the God Hand could have just told the Apostles to run wild create their own little empires and the human kingdoms could not have survived. In my mind the only thing I can think of to make all the effort and planning they've been putting into this for about 1000 years would be to merge the different plains of existence in the Berserk world into 1 so their God Hand power extended fully to the human world.  They might have a different objective that I just can't imagine but I can't believe it's merely to bring simple terror to the human world with an army of apostles. As for Griffith's presence breaking down the distinction between the world's, I take that in part as partial proof that that is their objective.

But apostles do what they want anyway, they usually don't take orders from the God Hand (who usually don't care about them). They're all very individualistic and egoistic, and before Griffith came down to earth the God Hand had little interference with them. Why would have they formed an army? They were all fine doing their little thing in their corner. In fact, without Griffith it's probable they wouldn't even get along all that well. The "higher" apostles aren't very friendly with the others in general (i.e. they don't hesitate to kill them), and it's likely the lower ones are worse when it comes to their own survival/desires. The only apostle that has shown any real ambition so far is Ganishka, and he's also the only one opposing Griffith. Note that Ganishka, despite his tyrannic rule and monstrous methods, didn't seem intent on completely ruining Midland; he was serious when he tried to end the war prematurely by impregnating Charlotte. So I don't think the same thing could be achieved anyway (and that's not going over Griffith's skills as a general, Sonia's powers, etc).

Anyway, I also don't think the only goal of this whole machination is simply to terrorize people with apostles. That's just not very plausible. However, IMHO the merging of the world's layers isn't the ultimate goal of their plan, despite obviously being an important step. Many things make me think so: the way it was announced, what we've witnessed of it so far, what is causing it and how it seems nothing's needed to make it happen other than Griffith being in the world, etc. Personally I think we have yet to learn what the finality of that plan is. One thing strikes me in your post: you don't seem to take the Idea of Evil in consideration. It's true that we know practically nothing about it, but it's still part of the story, and as far as I can tell it's the real mastermind to whom the God Hand obeys. Much like apostles, the members of the God Hand are individualistic and don't seem to care much about each other, and still like the apostles, they are united for a greater goal by a greater being. So I think that beyond their own benefit in having a stronger grasp on the material world, they're working for the advent of the Idea of Evil.

As for an unheard of eclipse it would be somewhat unheard of because it's objective would be quite different but I think there is one similar case.  That is the Beherit Apostle would was already an apostle but sacrificed himself to create a New World. The Eclipse I'm imagining would be like that only the sacrifice I imagie will be the new human followers that Griffith has amassed and who have total faith in him.  The dedication of the sacrifices to the person sacrificing seemed to be an important aspect when griffith became femto and I imagine a set up like this would require it as well.

But that's not similar at all. Incarnation ceremonies happen once in a thousand years, they're different from Occultation ceremonies, so what you're suggesting would mean a third type of ceremony. And the Beherit-Apostle had sacrificed himself when he became an apostle, not afterwards. Granted, it's a bit complicated (and I believe an exception), but he had sacrificed "the world around him" and it all fits together. You're also mistaken about the way sacrifices work I think, what matters isn't how much faith people have in the one sacrificing them but how much that person cares about what he's sacrificing. The point is that you sacrifice what is most precious to you in order to gain otherworldly powers. Being already a member of the God Hand and having attained his dream, I don't see why Griffith would sacrifice anything (assuming he could, which isn't sure at all).

As for the large battle to take Wyndham, 3 things make me think that that is not the time.  !st in a similar way to the battle for Doldrey which was more bloody than the Eclipse that created Femto it's not just a question of quantity there is a type of quality system to how sacrifices work.

But I never talked about a sacrifice? I just believe that battles/deaths/misery on a large scale are likely to help strengthen the God Hand's grasp on the world. It's the scenes with Conrad and the plague or the Grim Reaper overlooking battles in volume 17 that makes me think so (to which you can add Slan and the heretics and God knows what else that we've yet to see).

2nd all Griffith's work of winning over the people and building a human army would be a waste of time, he can easily achieve massive slaughter in battle without it appearing to be slaughter just by battleing with his apostle army in human form.

Well yeah, but how is that going against what I said? There were many deaths already, this is just an opportunity for even more.

3rd the story just does not seem set for that, if I'm in any way even close to being right if the God Hand achieved that that would be victory for them and the hero of the story would lose whilst being nowhere near the scene of the decisive battle.

I think there's a misunderstanding here. There could be many deaths among the Kushans and that wouldn't mean the end of the story. Do you expect Griffith to win this battle without a drop of blood being shed?

Why does the kid say that after the mist disappears before the fake dawn, everyone must be taken out of Wyndham? If the dream is alluding to an actual battle between the Gs, what would Ganishka (presumably on his own) do to all the citizens that wasn't done while his lackeys got spirited away with the mist? I could think that either Ganishka would actually destroy the whole city with fire, or a much less certain theory would be that Griffith doesn't want the populace to see what he might truly transform into (...nah)

I think it's a combination of everything. He probably doesn't want them to witness what will happen then in any case, and it's very likely it'll be very dangerous as well. I'm expecting things to go down roughly like this:

1) The night comes, citizens lock themselves up and wait
2) Griffith uses his powers to blow the fog away, apostles raid Wyndham and fight/butcher the familiars/casters
3) Apostles withdraw, it's the fake dawn
4) All the citizens flee the city
5) Ganishka has his back to the wall, he goes all out
6) Griffith strikes him down spectacularly
7) The dawn of a new era

The real unknown to me is when the regular Kushan armies will come into play. Since Griffith will have a smaller army, he'll need a trick to defeat them (although just sending in the apostles is already enough of a trick). They could fit at several points in the dream. They could be included in step 2, but I don't think so because the city isn't big enough and these guys couldn't roam next to monsters anyway. They could also be included in step 5, being a new menace after the city's cleansing. And finally it's possible they aren't in the dream and that the battle will take place before or after it (or even that it won't happen at all, if Ganishka dies beforehand with the Hawks surrounding them or something similar to what happened at Doldrey).

I saw a mention of Charlotte's future wedding to Griffith; I'd love to see the detailed art for that one! :D (edit: if it happens)

Hopefully we will, I think that'll be interesting. When you think about it, Griffith's coronation is really overdue. :griff:

Wow, wouldn't that kind of suck once Guts decides to take out Griffith?  I mean, he would probably have to mow down all of his new supporters :/

Be perfect for :beast: though :>  ummmm... kids - delicious!

I doubt that... He's not going to fight an entire country or even an army before he can get to him.

I would also suggest that because she can't be with griffith she still gets some satisfaction of from being useful to him "someone he can not do without."

I think it's a bit different. Sonia can relate to Griffith in ways that only she can, due to her powers. I don't think she's just satisfied that she can be useful to him.

On topic, this all seems to be wrapping things up for Griffith's rule, leaving Guts and co. as the last thing on Griffs to do list for all we know.

Well, his current state of mind seems to be that Guts isn't on his to-do list at all.

Will Griffith win in the usual way with an impeccable strategy and perfect execution, or do you think he will really show some other-worldly abilities as the prophecies and premonitions seem to indicate? I can't think of a practical method of clearing a completely black sky with medieval technology or even now. It could always be done subtely to I guess.

Since Ganishka will be using his own magical powers, I have little doubt that Griffith will do the same. How do you think the fog is going to be blown away? Remember Locus' words in episode 230: "wait for the storm that the Hawk will bring". :guts: And Ganishka's fog form was defeated by the wind once already. As for the fake dawn, well since it comes from a dream it could mean a lot of things. Other than a giant bird made of pure light in the sky, I guess if they shot a lot of fireworks... Hmm, we'll have to wait and see.

Offline Okin

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Re: Episode 291
« Reply #112 on: November 18, 2007, 04:48:20 AM »
Well, his current state of mind seems to be that Guts isn't on his to-do list at all.

Since Ganishka will be using his own magical powers, I have little doubt that Griffith will do the same. How do you think the fog is going to be blown away? Remember Locus' words in episode 230: "wait for the storm that the Hawk will bring". :guts: And Ganishka's fog form was defeated by the wind once already. As for the fake dawn, well since it comes from a dream it could mean a lot of things. Other than a giant bird made of pure light in the sky, I guess if they shot a lot of fireworks... Hmm, we'll have to wait and see.

Ah, once again I've forgotten how insignificant Guts is to Griffith now. (But he has some significance we know.)

You don't mean Griffith's gonna sprout wings and fly in throwing fireballs do you? Cause that would be awesome! Even when dealing with Ganishka's magic, I think Griffith can defeat him without losing his nonchalance, so I expect another subtle miracle in the beginning of the fight that will humilify the Emperor Apostle. When the sky turns pitch black though who knows?
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 291
« Reply #113 on: November 18, 2007, 11:09:14 AM »
You don't mean Griffith's gonna sprout wings and fly in throwing fireballs do you? Cause that would be awesome!

Well no, I just meant this:


Offline Baldulf

Re: Episode 291
« Reply #114 on: November 19, 2007, 12:29:09 AM »
One thing I must say is that whole religions started with much less than the show the people of Midland are about to witness.

No force on earth can face Griffith's army,so why bothering to appear in everybody dreams and make them hope for their savior? Only to give legitimacy to Griffit's coronation?

We'll see soon (I hope) which is the real purpose of this whole play.
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Offline Black_Devil

Re: Episode 291
« Reply #115 on: November 19, 2007, 06:19:42 AM »
Well also be careful not to forget the OTHER side of the Hawk prophecy, that of the Hawk of Darkness, Griffith is SUPPOSED to be seen as the savior, and all of this is just the Hawk of Light prophecy running it's course. I think it's a safe bet to say Ganishka has nothing on what Griffith has in store once he's taken out of the picture and the first half of the prophecy is done.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 291
« Reply #116 on: November 19, 2007, 10:54:11 AM »
One thing I must say is that whole religions started with much less than the show the people of Midland are about to witness.

No force on earth can face Griffith's army,so why bothering to appear in everybody dreams and make them hope for their savior? Only to give legitimacy to Griffit's coronation?

Well as we can very obviously see, the latest dream had a much more practical application than making people hope for a savior. Griffith's just using it to maneuver as he likes and be able to get the upper hand against Ganishka, who's himself not a pushover. And the first dream that everybody experienced had a clear purpose as well: it was a rallying sign for apostles and it signified to people that Griffith would return as a savior. Religions indeed started with less than what people in Midland are experiencing, however they didn't start as the mainstream ideology within a year, and that's what Griffith is doing now (though he's not actually starting a religion, just taking advantage of one).

Well also be careful not to forget the OTHER side of the Hawk prophecy, that of the Hawk of Darkness

Actually, that's the only side. The prophecy doesn't mention the Falcon of Light.