Can Idea be destroyed?

I don't see Idea being destroyed or anything like that. That's beyond human comprehension and understanding. This is god. G-O-D. The only way there can be something against Idea is to make him a non-existent factor in mans world. Is Idea bound by any rule? I remember some DC Vertigo book I read long, long ago that had a set up where "Gods could only exist if they are worshipped" or something like that. That seems to be something of a connection to Idea in the fact that Idea states that it was born due to human needs. Now Chapter 83 is not cannon! Idea could have a different set up by the time it is actually fully used in the manga. It's a very philosophical way of looking at it. It reminds me of that old saying (or proverb) "Can God create a stone so large even he cannot lift it?" Can Idea create something that is so large that it can actually harm him? Can mankind be any kind of threat to Idea?  The only one who theoretically has a the ability to at the least make his presence known to Idea is Guts. Remember Guts exist outside of fate. Idea controls fate. Void, Slann, Griffith and the others all are manipulated through Idea. I guess Casca falls into the same category as Guts. Too bad she doesn't have the mindset to use it towards her advantage (Guts is pretty questionable in his own way). Can the Idea factor be something that can be settled nice and neatly? Did Miura bite more then he can chew? I know he has an ending already in mind which is good (don't want it to be like Kenshin where the creator was making shit up on the fly towards the end. Something Watsuki admitted to).  

As for thoughts I've heard about Griffith freeing man from Idea. I don't see it. Why should he? Idea isn't making him do anything against his will. Idea gave him this gift of a second chance. He has no reason to even be upset or to even conceive a plot against him. Idea is giving Griffith a kingdom on a silver platter. Besides his connection to Guts I'm more curious about Griffith's connection to Idea in the big scheme of things.

What does Idea want?

Does it have the capacity to need or want anything?

Why the creation of Godhand?

So many questions, so many years to wait.  :'(

Idea serves humanities will. The X-factor in this equasion is whether or not Griffith has more power of these spiritual things than humans do. Idea said that whatever choice he made would be fitting for humanity.

I really dont see Idea as a selfish, self-preserving kind of God. If humanity wanted it gone, my guess is that itd be gone, but right now they desire it.

this is a silly little thought i had a while back, say Griffith does indeed get the Kingdom he dreamt about (and as of now, his chances seem to be pretty damn good). What if he was such a good ruler that his people desired nothing outside of what Griffith could give them? would The Idea be obsolete then?

just something random i thought id share...

this is a silly little thought i had a while back, say Griffith does indeed get the Kingdom he dreamt about (and as of now, his chances seem to be pretty damn good). What if he was such a good ruler that his people desired nothing outside of what Griffith could give them? would The Idea be obsolete then?

just something random i thought id share...

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Not a bad thought. Share your thoughts more often.

If there is one thing I've noticed in current Manga's right now is the theme that heaven on earth isn't always a good thing. :)

or we can go on a massive massacre until no human is left, and then idea would be destroyed. ;D

this is a silly little thought i had a while back, say Griffith does indeed get the Kingdom he dreamt about (and as of now, his chances seem to be pretty damn good). What if he was such a good ruler that his people desired nothing outside of what Griffith could give them? would The Idea be obsolete then?

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very feasible.
but I'd thought if Guts attacks good king of Midland, it is like Guts destroys people's peace which Griffith gave them.
then Guts should fight all the Midland people for his own revenge.

***I don't know why this thought comes to my mind but I think Idea may do the good things for Guts and Midland people.
Maybe Idea solves all the problem that happened to Skullknight and Godhand.
So my take on this topic is "Idea isn't destroyed by human power"

this is a silly little thought i had a while back, say Griffith does indeed get the Kingdom he dreamt about (and as of now, his chances seem to be pretty damn good). What if he was such a good ruler that his people desired nothing outside of what Griffith could give them? would The Idea be obsolete then?

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My theory is similar, where Griffith finds he must reverse the feelings of the people of Midland in order to confront the one entity above himself; Idea. He seems to be already doing this as seen in 193 in Sonja and Mule's first meeting. The catalyst for doing this, I think, is that once he attains his kingdom he will realize he's just a tool of Idea. Hmm, how ironic.

However, there are still the three wildcards called Void,Zoddo, and Skull Knight. I have a feeling Void may intervene if Griffith tries to undo Idea but that is pure speculation. Zoddo would be the perfect man for the job of killing off the apostle army if Guts doesn't first. Skull Knight...sits back and laughs at everyone. I have no idea about SK but might he side with Griffith in opposing Idea? If he indeed is Gaiseric, then he might want to enlighten Griffith before he does something really stupid. ::)

this is a silly little thought i had a while back, say Griffith does indeed get the Kingdom he dreamt about (and as of now, his chances seem to be pretty damn good). What if he was such a good ruler that his people desired nothing outside of what Griffith could give them? would The Idea be obsolete then?

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Somehow I don't see Griffith as being a benevolent ruler, him being an ex-demon god and all. Even the blind sheep can't stay blind forever.
Also, anyone get the feeling Miura is going to use the old legend of the tyrant leader being overthrown that we heard about in volume 11 as yet another cycle in human history?

Since Idea is the sum of the uncoscious of every human being, you have to destroy every living soul of hearth to destroy him (Gutts included). Evil Ernie where are you when we need you?

As for thoughts I've heard about Griffith freeing man from Idea. I don't see it. Why should he? Idea isn't making him do anything against his will. Idea gave him this gift of a second chance. He has no reason to even be upset or to even conceive a plot against him. Idea is giving Griffith a kingdom on a silver platter. Besides his connection to Guts I'm more curious about Griffith's connection to Idea in the big scheme of things.

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Dont forget that Griffiths dream isnt necessarily _just_ a castle. His dream is to be under control of no one. A kingdom is merely a symbol of complete dominance over a people. If Idea is controlling him, Griffiths dream wont be complete.

 
Also, anyone get the feeling Miura is going to use the old legend of the tyrant leader being overthrown that we heard about in volume 11 as yet another cycle in human history?

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Um..hello? Gaiseric anyone?

But Idea doesn't control him. At least not directly. By letting him to do what he wish he (Idea) leaves him the illusion of freedom. It is the same tactic that Griffith himself used on Guts. That, when all will be said and done, Griffith will have ended up doing exactly that Idea expected him to do is another point entirely.Further I don't think Idea is so stupid as to give to one of his creatures, Griffith or whatever else, the power to harm him.

How many people think that Guts may already be more powerful than THE Idea?

-Griffith

Further I don't think Idea is so stupid as to give to one of his creatures, Griffith or whatever else, the power to harm him.

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Read my first post.

How many people think that Guts may already be more powerful than THE Idea?

-Griffith

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Well, it does look like hes been working out recently...Count me out on that Griff.

Idea created Griffith to do exactly what Idea intended for him to do, I don’t think saying to him, “Oh yeah, do what comes naturally man, pfff heh heh heh,” was very sincere in that Idea already had Griffith’s actions planned out before his birth and created or “programmed” him accordingly.

Of course, some lone variable or X-factor outside of the plan might be able to change things somehow, who knows? ;D

Well, it does look like hes been working out recently...Count me out on that Griff.

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Not exactly what I meant…

-Griffith

do you mean that since Guts is outside of Casualty, The Idea has no control over him and can be over come by those that he cannot control??

More than that, if Guts is truly outside of Casualty, then just his very existence threatens Idea’s power.  Everything Guts does changes Idea’s plan in some way, and everyone he meets changes; possibility losing their designated purpose in life however minor (or perhaps major =) it may be. Serpico and Farnese for example, what was their fate before Guts came into their lives, look how much Farnese has changed just by knowing him, in essence, has he more or less removed her from Casualty as well, can he do it to others, can he do it to Griffith? This doesn’t make him invincible or anything, he can still be killed by Apostles like anyone else, but at least it’s in his own hands.  If all this is true, it gives Guts a power like Idea’s, one that may even supercede Idea’s, albeit on a smaller scale. ^_^

Basically, if Idea is fate’s author, then Guts is the ultimate editor.

-Griffith

Not exactly what I meant…

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Well I was being fecescious. What I mean is that I really dont think Guts will be the one to destroy Idea. Not physically (obviously) and not even spiritually. I do believe that Guts will be the catalyst for a change though. I just dont think that Ideas destruction/change will be centered around Guts. He'll be a player, but not the lead.

What I mean is that I really dont think Guts will be the one to destroy Idea.

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I never said Guts would destroy Idea, you facetious bastard.

I do believe that Guts will be the catalyst for a change though. I just dont think that Ideas destruction/change will be centered around Guts. He'll be a player, but not the lead.

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Doesn’t that kind of undermine his status as the “lead” character though? I don’t know if I necessarily disagree with you event-wise, but I sure wouldn’t put it that way. ^_^

I think both Guts and Griffith will be very instrumental in what happens to God Hand and Idea (yeah, that’s damn vague, but any further details would constitute total fan fiction). Anyway, I think the fall of God Hand and whatnot will simply be the background for where the real action has always been, the character’s relationships, that’s where the climax of the story will really be (Casca, Guts and Griffith, oh my). Ahhh, so many great moments to look forward to, so much time to look forward and come up with crazy scenarios. ;D

-Griffith

P.S. We're probably not even taking into consideration a lot of the other characters that will most certainly be important to God Hand's fall, such as whats her name the witch. You're right, forget I mentioned her...

But will Idea be destroyed? It just occured me that we are looking at it fantastic four style: that is the heroes against the villain. I think Miura is more subtle than that.Idea was instrumental to create a certain situation but ,he is not the villain to bring down. I think our heroes are fated to do something that will not be of any concern for Idea but it will change their world forever.

or we can go on a massive massacre until no human is left, and then idea would be destroyed. ;D

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Great thought. ;)
Anyway, concerning all that was said above, I see Guts on his way of becoming Griffis. Guts is outside Griff's plans, as he doesn't seem to care about him too much.
(Damn, I began writing Guts instead of Gattsu - damn you ;) )
Gattsu now seems to be the lighthouse for all those changed by the realisation that monsters do exist, they do eat humans and only a big badass sword can stop them.
Griff, from what I've managed to comprehand from the latest chapters (194 no trans), is so far away from Gattsu that a soon meeting seems far off. It actually scares me, beacuase it smells like a couple of years before they meet. It sucks to wait.

Idea, well, I see Idea and GH exist in a symbiosis. If Gatts somehow destroys Griffs body, it will surely influence that symbiosis. I think it can be destroyed.

Basically, if Idea is fate’s author, then Guts is the ultimate editor.
-Griffith

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hahaha, good one Griffith, good one :)

I'm newbie here so don't go to harsh on my foolish ideas.

Ooops! That wasn't a joke.

Some people call Idea, the law of casuality others call it the wheel of fate...personally i think the later sounds much better.

Oh yes, about Guts. I think it is indeed that Guts is outside this circle.Who knows, maybe he has some terrible secret that will surprise us all.

Some people call Idea, the law of casuality others call it the wheel of fate...personally i think the later sounds much better.

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Maybe, but that's not how it's called in Berserk. ^^
(and it's "causality", not "casuality" ^^; )